Talk:Ymir

Information
Where was the information about her being able to read and being worshipped by a Titan was found?R. Lawton (talk) 14:07, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

It was seen in the side story chapter feauturing Ilse Langner in the 34th expedition beyond the walls. The reading part is from http://shingekinokyojin.wikia.com/wiki/Castle_Utgard_(chapter) this chapter I think. Wut? I have no sig anymore? ;_;

Age:
There is no reason to presume anything about her age. The only facts we have are:


 * She wandered as a titan for 60  years.


 * She was in training for 2 years.

I am reverting her age to 62+ unless someone can justify another date. Rkbrumbelow (talk) 19:54, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

First and foremost, your numbers are wrong. She was a Titan for 60 years, and emerged back into human form 5 years ago. She was in training for 3 of those 5 years. She is officially listed as being 17 (on the anime's official page), so she was 12 when she stopped aging and became a Titan. She is one of the older Trainees, being 14 when she enlisted. We know she did not age during her 60 years as a Titan, but resumed aging once she regained her human form.

Therefore:

17 + 60 = 77.

So she is at least 77 years old.

Harostar (talk) 20:37, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

You are presuming the 12, unless you can cite it frome somewhere. If training was 3 years then we are at 63+ as opposed to 62+. Can you provise a source for the other 2 years? I do not find any dates for it. I am not saying you are wrong, just unsupported. Rkbrumbelow (talk) 20:42, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

He said (and he's right) that the official site states her to be 17, and both the anime and manga show "5 years" across the screen when in the training portion of the story, so we don't need a source, and as Ymir was shown at the beginning of those 5 years, (both early in the story and in the ministory with Dazz) then she would have had to be 12 when she became human again. There is no source necessary, please do not change the age again. Chris (talk) 21:19, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Rkbrumbelow, I'm not sure how this is so confusing.

Training is explicitly and repeatedly stated within the source to be 3 years long. It is stated during the Initiation Rite, stated by Eren when he makes his speech prior to going into battle in Trost, and the ages of the characters also explicitly show this. The main characters (Eren, Mikasa, and Armin) were 12 when they enlisted and are currently, one month out of graduation, 15. Hence, their military training takes 3 years.

As for Ymir's age, we know that she was human PRIOR to becoming a Titan. Reiner and Bertholdt explicitly discuss this in the latest chapter, stating she was able to become human AGAIN. And since she did not simply appear out of nowhere fully grown, she must have been at least 12 when she became a Titan. As, again, the official stats for the characters state she is 17. She is, with the knowledge that she did not age during her 60-year stint as a Titan, at least 77 years old.

Where am I getting the 12 years old? Pretty simple. She is currently (physically) 17 years old, and returned to human form 5 years ago.

17 - 5 = 12

Therefore, her pre-Titan and post-Titan age was mostly likely to have been 12 years old.

Harostar (talk) 21:27, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Likely does not make it soRkbrumbelow (talk) 21:31, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

What the hell else do you suggest putting? That's math, word usage doesn't change it and it doesn't make Ymir 63. Is this gonna become a problem?Chris (talk) 21:32, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ymir did not appear out of thin air. We know she existed PRIOR to becoming a Titan, and her 60 years as a Titan are not taken into account when counting her physical age because she did not age during that time. She is physically 17 years old. I'm not sure how this is confusing.

Harostar (talk) 21:37, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

It makes her 63+ as we can account for 63 years of her life. Maybe she was 102 and became a titan then reverted to 17 when she got out We simply do not know. Rkbrumbelow (talk) 21:42, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Rkbrumbelow, you are wrong. Again. I really am attempting to be patient, but your incorrect facts and seeming inability to grasp basic logic really are confusing me. How is this so hard?

785: Becomes trapped in Titan form. (Physical age: 12)

845: Regains human form. (Physical age: 12)

847: Enlists in the military. (Physical age: 14)

850: Graduates from the military. (Physical age: 17)

Ymir is shown to have visibly aged during her time in training. And even if she "reverted to 17", that STILL means she is over 70 years old.

17 - 3 = 14

17 - 5 = 12

60 + 17 = 77

I am not sure how much more explicit I can be in spelling this out.

Ymir is officially documented by multiple sources (character bios on anime's website, character bio in the official guidebook) as being physically 17. She has now revealed that she has an extra 60 years tacked onto this, in which she did not age.

Harostar (talk) 21:49, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

You are assuming the 12 and the physical ages. Nowhere does it state them except that she appears 17 how much clearer can I make it? Rkbrumbelow (talk) 21:52, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

And how much more clear can I make it?

Official Anime Website Bio: 17 years old

Official Guidebook Bio: 17 years old

These are official numbers. They do not include her 60 years in Titan form.

60 + 17 = 77

Harostar (talk) 21:56, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

And how do you know they do not account for it, further if they do her age is 77, not 70+ or 63+ You are not even consistant in your age placement. Doesn't matter, I give up. You can claim she is 90. Fact of the matter is we only can account for 63 years everyyhing else is supposition. I have better things to do though than try and teach you simple hermeneutics. Rkbrumbelow (talk) 22:03, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Official source:

http://www.shingeki.tv/character/#11

Lists her as being 14 when she enlisted.

Lists her as graduated when she is 17.

Therefore, if she was 14 in 847 and 17 in 850, she must have been 12 in 845 when she regained human form because that is how math works.

Also, as a note, someone being 77 would be someone that is 70+.

Harostar (talk) 22:05, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Just passing by; the anime website has removed the characters' ages as far as my poor eye and Google Translator can tell, they refer to events with years now. So we're back to square one... I actually suggest putting it as 'Unknown' or not put it at all if possible. I don't like guessing, not proven facts shouldn't be in an article, and having +60/+70 is equally bad. For once, we don't even know whether we should consider the time she spent as a Titan since she didn't age during that time.

17:48, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

That's already been taken into account. Her physical age is separated from her actual age in that it says Age: ___ (Appears 17). Also, the events of Shingeki have always been counted with years. Nothing's changed. Chris (talk) 18:25, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm talking about the anime website, on the character's page it used to say 'Joined 104th training squad at the age of XX', now it says 'Joined 104th training squad in year XXX'. Basically, the information about Ymir being 17 is now gone, which was one of the main arguments used in the discussion above, if I'm reading right. 18:50, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

While that may be so, that was mainly to appease Rk, which didn't work out anyway. The math portion of Ymir's age still holds up in the face of both the anime and the manga. Chris (talk) 01:10, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

They removed the ages, huh? Ah, well. I could still think we can make an estimate that her true age is greater than 70 years old, since we have a baseline of 60 years in Titan form, a documented 5 years since returning to human form, and her physical appearance placing her in her late teens. Various statements she's made show she had a life prior to being trapped in Titan form (her narration in ch. 40, for example).

How does my latest edit look? I tried to account for the fact we know she's been alive for decades, while also taking into account we don't know her true age and she's physically still young. --Harostar (talk) 07:17, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

A little too long for my taste but it works, I guess ;o 09:07, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

Titan name
I was gonna add Ymir's Titan name in japanese, and for that, I had to look up for a raw. It turns out that her name doesn't seem to be Dancing Titan. The raw says 踊る巨人 (Odoru Kyojin) where the scanlated version says "The dancing titan", and Odoru is used as a verb, not an adjective. This is not the case with Colossal (超大型), Armored (鎧の) and Female-Type, Woman-shape or Female-ish (女型の). Hence, what I think is that "The Titan is going to dance" would be a more fitting translation. So we cannot have any definitive name for Ymir's Titan form, because nobody has ever called her with any name other than "Ymir".  h fc 2 X  00:34, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Due to the fact that it's more of a verb, isn't the term "to dance" or "dance" more appropriate? (though I myself can't say for sure about this one) "Dance Titan" is also another possibility since it seems to use the basic form of the verb. What does everyone else think? We can also just mention that in her trivia to avoid the hassle of changing it, and outline how the term is more of a localised translation, while mentioning the original Japanese meaning (similar to Levi's Trivia and the meaning behind his title "Captain/Heichou") but up to you.--DementedP (talk) 03:59, September 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Then, is it even a name of her Titan form? Wasn't it just saying that she is going to 'dance', aka fight those regular Titans? It would be extremely awkward to have the name as 'The Titan is going to dance', no matter how accurate the translation is. 07:14, September 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah pretty much, although again, we could always just mention it as an unofficial name (similar to Eren's Titan form that's nicknamed as "Rogue Titan" or even the odd case of the "Smiling Titan). I mean, sure we can just call her "Ymir" and her Titan form but it's still up to you guys. EDIT- You can have a look at Eren and Ymir's Trivia section as I've just edited them and see how they look. Is that alright for now? (it's easy to remove anyway if we really have to) --DementedP (talk) 07:59, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Character/Profile image
Has anyone considered changing Ymir's character image? She looks so tanned in the current one because of the shade. When i first saw this i actually thought she was dark skinned turns out she was pretty light skinned :|

Not like it matters alot.. but it had been bugging me for a while.

122.62.65.37 06:48, November 7, 2013 (UTC) anon
 * I couldn't care less about her skin color, but I agree it's not the best pic of her. The only problem is that the anime hasn't made her justice, so it's pretty difficult to get a better pic for her. I suspect that Ilse's Notebook OVA will include new shots of Ymir.  h fc 2 X  07:13, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

There isn't a better one as far as I know 11:13, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Ymir's name
Ymir also means "A Mythical Giant" as an Norwegian name and is most often used for boys. 173.63.250.100 12:13, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's already pointed in the trivia section. And yes, Ymir was the father of the frost giants.  h fc 2 X  18:50, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

The Theft
So the question has come up about Ymir's statement that she "stole" the Titan's power. There seems to be some confusion about her meaning in this, and when exactly it happened. I put forth that her statement does not mean the killing of Marcel, based on several pieces of information we have about Ymir.

The first factor we need to consider Ymir's actions. We know that she spent the two years between the fall of Wall Maria and her enlistment deep within the Interior. Her second major action was enlisting upon learning about Historia, with the intention of finding her. She vaguely admits on several occasions she wants to keep Historia close for her own reasons, and while we know she has romantic feelings we also have her statement/confession.

She states she befriended Historia with the intention of using her as a bargaining chip, to save her own life. While we know Ymir is not above manipulation, we have to also look at her interactions with Reiner and Bertolt prior to learning about Marcel. She outright states that they will kill her, and Reiner doesn't mince words in agreeing with her prediction. So we know there is bad blood already there, even before she learns how she ended up regaining her human awareness. Afterwards, her behavior towards Reiner and Bertolt changes with her ending up being willing to sacrifice herself to help them.

These actions suggest her confession to Historia was genuine, in that she did indeed cross the Warriors' people 60 years ago. Based on knowing she does indeed believe she will be killed, her hiding within the Interior and seeking out Historia matches her statements. She does all this without knowing she's killed one of their number. The theft she mentions makes sense as a crime sufficient to make her fear for her life.

That is my take on things, at least. Harostar (talk) 04:16, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

Let us consider Hange's theory however. The fact that Ymir DID regain her human form, and that there is in fact only one way to regain that human form which we know of, consuming one who has the power. If she knows of the group that has that power, the only group we know has that power, then logically she can deduce the only group she could have done it too even if she can't remember the exact individual she ate. Ymir is already good at deduction and finding things out in any event, that she found and knew who HIstoria was despite living like a street rat demonstrates as such. This makes more sense to me then her worrying about a crime that happened 60 years ago. The timeline matches, because however we slice it Ymir could only have been on the run these last 5 years due to her being previously mindless, the time when she stole/ate Marcel's power, which strikes me as too much of a coincidence. Her confession to HIstoria is also vague enough on when this theft would have occured, none of the translations I've seen says exactly 60 years ago, only a long time and 5 years could be considered a long amount of time in my view as well. Hange's explaination therefore would line up with everything we currently know and be the most complete picture as to what exactly happened.

Edit: I've looked back on chapter 47 again. Consider this, what is the first thing Bert asks Ymir? It's 'Do you remember who you ate?' Not 'do you remember you ate one of our comrades?' This phrasing basically says Bert already knows she knows she ate SOMEONE, she just doesn't know who exactly, and the only reason that would be significant as her later statement shows was that it was 5 years ago, the time when she woke up. And from there she deduces it was one of their comrades, ie not just someone whose part of the same group but someone they knew and worked with personally. KrimzonStriker (talk) 05:03, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

True, there is a lot of mystery still as to exactly what happened 60 years ago. One flaw I see in your argument, however, is assuming that Ymir knew how it was that she returned to human form. She admits to Eren in chapter 46 that there's a lot she doesn't know or understand about their power. In terms of the two possibilities, assuming she already knew HOW Titan Shifting is passed along is a further stretch than assuming she stole something in the past. We already have a major piece of evidence that there's something that could be stolen -- Eren's flashback of being injected by Grisha. --Harostar (talk) 05:22, June 21, 2014 (UTC)