Board Thread:Manga/@comment-27321453-20180708204808/@comment-35822279-20180714215245

Fire Eater wrote: Marco1995mega wrote: Freeman1378 wrote: Fire Eater wrote: Freeman1378 wrote: Fire Eater wrote: I don't think Historia is one of the offenders in question here. Though this pregnancy plan does suck. I don't like what it does for her role in the remaining story, but it's not character crushing.

If you wanna talk about ruined character growth, let's have a good look at Eren himself, who is becoming the kind of anti-hero that I don't think you could legit root for at this stage. I saw more guilt from Armin and the three Warriors combined for their respective civilian kills than Eren has shown in all of the last seven chapters between blowing up the festival and threatening Hange. Not to mention the eight people, Sasha included, that he got killed because he is too bullheaded to account for anyone else's well-being.

No wonder the rumors of the main trio collapsing are still running rampant. I don't think Eren is heartless as he clearly cried over getting Sasha killed in 105 and also seems to have a look of regret before transforming and intiating The Battle Of Liberio. I think Eren just compartmentalizes better than any character we have seen before and because of that he gives of an aura of apathy when in all reality he probably cares just as much or even more than any other person. The reason he freaked out at Hange is because she and the rest of Paradis haven't come up with an immediate permanent solution to Paradis's problems outside of a short term fix that only ensures repeating the mistakes of the past rather than solving the current issues at hand and also on top of that over relies on two sketchy alliances. The only difference these days in his personality is that he doesn't relish conflict like he used to (Ex. no more psychotic rants about killing his enemies in brutal fashion) and he's not as explosively emotional as he used to be but he hasn't lost his righteousness or will to save those he cares about (Ex. he clearly cares about Historia as everything he has done recently has been done for her sake). Overall I don't think Eren is too radically different these days to the man that we have seen prior to this and I don't think his character has been handled that poorly in the current story. I'll just disagree once again. Because Eren......He's never been one of my favorites, but I didn't despise him either. That's different now. He might want to remember his place before he murders anymore civilians or commits anymore friends to senseless sacrifice. Otherwise he is absolutely bound for a well-deserved grave before this is over. I definetly agree that The Battle Of Liberio was a colossal moral failure for Eren and the Survey Corps as they lost any moral high ground they held over Marley and lost the chance to potentially block Marley's invasion by bringing up there violations of international law (there does seem to be some sort of proto-Humans Rights act in this universe) but on the other hand even though I don't agree with Eren's actions there is no denying the sheer effectiveness of the attack as he crippled Marley completely, acquired Zeke, and also has the foundations built for a final trap that if triggered correctly could end this conflict or even reignite the Eldian Empire. The thing is that the situation is complex as nearly every character on both sides has a valid point about the coming war and it's entirely subjective as to what the best course of action like I personally think that they should have least tried to acquire more allies and find a diplomatic solution to this conflict but there is also no way of telling if this would have worked at all (many nations seem to be unwilling to forgive the Eldians), so it's difficult to say what was the best course for the current situation and I don't envy the cast at the moment for this reason. In a battle of survival, like the one between Marley and Paradis, I'm afraid morality takes a backseat when it comes to being considered as a significant factor. Besides, let's not forget that the rest of the world still sees the latter as monsters, even more so than the Marleyans. To them, the crimes of the Eldian Empire can never be forgotten or forgiven, and they'll more likely than not to still hold that over their heads in any moral debate. By that virtue, I imagine most, if not all countries would make an exception with these international laws when it came to Paradis, since most of them see the Eldians there as enemies of the whole world, regardless of whether they have done something wrong or not. I agree though that the battle was a raging success, all things considered. The Marleyan army crippled, only eight dead on their side, the only thing that bothers is how the major players of the Survey Corps keep complaining about these deaths when that same regiment has failed 99% of the time and each mission in the past had resulted with a casualty rate of at least 30%. The Battle of Liberio was a success for Paradis, in every sense of the word. As for the diplomatic solution, I'll point out the previous argument of the rest of the world's opinion on Paradis, plus, Yelena mentioned that Hizuru was their only ally in all this. Granted, it doesn't make the situation any less complex, multi-faceted, and morally ambiguous, which, by the way, is the reason I love it, unlke some others. At the end only Paradis' survival matters, the prisoners in Liberio if it can be managed, but the current generation of islanders have nothing to apologize for. Whatever's in the past is the fault of their ancestors, the current islanders are just looking for their right to live. The moral dilemma is in my opinion irrelevant. Paradis made sure to specifically spare civilians even if Eren already f'ed that up, so Paradis has the high ground even if the planet does not think so. They're not the oppressors. It's the Marley, the Warriors and Gabi who need to be brought to trial on what they've all been doing. Whatever Hizuru's position, whether they're true to their word or not, it is Paradis that must prevail. Actually they don't have complete moral high ground as Eren wasn't the only one who killed civilians as Floch and his posse actively attacked civilians with bombs (Connie, Jean, Sasha, and Mikasa are the only ones who I know for certain didn't actively attack civilians) and of course Armin killed a thousand or more people with his CT bomb so unfortunately in the eyes of the world and me they are not morally squeaky clean after this fight (they had clear moral high ground prior to this as the victims of numerous war crimes) and the worlds hatred of Paradis now has a basis in reality rather than being simply a xenophobic delusion. This fight isn't morally simplistic anymore as Paradis went up to the world and showed they are no better than Marley by responding to a war crime with another war crime and honestly the narrative is better for it as the narrative has become more rich, complex, and realistic as a result of Paradis losing there moral high ground rather than just devolving into a simplistic fight of perfect good guys against the discount Nazis. If AOT can just fix it's pacing, character, and issues with stakes than I think this could be a really profound piece of work (the Marley arc was a humongous step in this direction for the most part) rather than a flawed but still engaging piece of work that it has been for the majority of it's run (Anime + Manga).