Board Thread:Manga/@comment-27321453-20200408113657/@comment-35822279-20200411044958

Tdfern14 wrote: Freeman1378 wrote: I guess I'm going to be the one playing devil's advocate in regards to this chapter.

Pros:

- The drawing was good especially the gore which was incredibly realistic & gruesome to behold.

Cons:

- When I rewatched season 3 part 2 one thing that definitely impressed me was how solid Floch was as a character. He was brutally honest to a fault and the pragmatist who said things like they are instead of how others wished they were which I think set him up perfectly as a rational counterbalance to many of the main characters emotional sides (Side note: props to his JP voice actor who was excellent). However I feel like his character has been botched in this arc as he has become a mindless one dimensional thug and honestly every time he opens his mouth my eyes roll into another dimension as he comes across as transparently psychotic rather than a person with a valid point. He isn't the rational pragmatist that the Yeagerists need to be a credible threat or valid counterpoint to the protagonists but instead has de-evolved into a heel who only exists to prolong the plot.

- The dialogue was also a major problem with this chapter & potentially the arc in general as it was flat, repetitive (four characters say "why are we killing each other!" or a variant of it), and preachy (Kyle Broflovski called he wants his "I learned something today" speeches back). When you are focusing extensively on characters like this the dialogue needs to be strong or else the story is a dud, that is a basic truth of storytelling (Ex. Better Call Saul & Breaking Bad are great because of the stellar dialogue writing). Isayama has written some great dialogue in the past especially in Marley but this arc has been nothing short of rough and it is telling that the best chapter of the arc was the one where barely anyone talked.

- I hated the revival of Daz & Samuel for the "why are we killing each other!!!" moment because A.) I straight up forgot who Samuel was and honestly thought he was Thomas who died in Trost, B.) I only remember Daz because he's a meme and looks like he was kicked by a mule, and C.) using left over cannon fodder for a emotional gut punch is beyond stupid and emotionally false to the core.

- Finally, I truly hate what Armin has become as he is just unbearably naive & whiny these days and I feel that his character has been in heavy decline since his revival. I can sympathize with his whole "boo to killing the human race" stance but he just feels like he is missing that intensity & will to fight that made him so enjoyable throughout the series and has de-evolved all the way back to Trost when he spent the majority of the time crying & whining which was fine then since it was the start of a character arc but isn't a great look this late in the game. I was intitially going to include Hange here but I'll give her/him a pass since it was setup back in Uprising and is at least logical & consistent with her character.

Overall:

- I have read this chapter a few times already and I dislike it more each time. I think the main reasons why I'm so dispassionate towards this arc & chapters like this is that the dialogue is rote for something that is meant to be character focused, the conveniences are making the arc feel disingenous & mechanical, the stakes are weak so far for an apocalyptic endgame, large parts of this arc feel like a rerun of Uprising, staying out of Eren's POV for extended periods of time feels like a mistake as everybody has been simply been reacting to him despite the fact that he is the primary driver of the plot, and most prominently the pacing has been nothing short of strange with some chapters coming to a grinding halt for no particular reason (123) while others speed through entire character arcs at the speed of light (Connie in 126, Annie's reintroduction to the core cast in the same chapter). I'm still trying to maintain optimism for the series and I hope that a big death or moment in the future will give the series a renewed sense of vigour like the three chapter trip to the paths did but for now I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the series to improve as a whole or reach its next grand event.

- Side Note: I do think that the anime's incredible VA work and excellent music will solve some of these problems as it will make the duller moments more energetic but hopefully unlike RTS, WIT is not afraid of rearranging & rewriting many aspects of the arc to improve it (ie. combining chapter 123 & 124). Okay can you please explain how is Armin "whiny"?

Look I can get behind your disdain or disappointment with Floch and his character, although I think he is rather a important representation of a once honest man then brainwashed into nationalism. However Armin is just trying to limit bloodshed the best he can, at this point hasn't enough graves been dug? Since you replied to me directly & seem willing to engage in a thoughtful conversation, I'll clarify some of my feelings.

- The thing about Armin has been brewing for a while as Armin was actually one of my favourites from Trost till RTS. The thing I liked about Armin is that he acknowledged he wasn't very strong & was most likely doomed to die but he always kept fighting & inspiring his comrades in spite of this, even being the man who would get things done but his recent actions & dialogue counteract how he was before. I also wholesale agree with Armin's stance that more chaos & mayhem is not worth it at this point but his transition from a realist to an optimist has rubbed me the wrong way as Armin comes across as naive in most of his dialogue where he believes that Hange or anybody in the corps can essentially broker world peace without putting much effort into realizing it (ie. he went from the world is hell & people can be cruel to we can talk it out in the span of the arc). I understand Isayama's intentions to show how difficult it is to go from fighting faceless monsters to flesh & blood humans and even having to fight your former comrades but the dialogue that has been given to the character paints him as weak minded & fragile like he was for large sections of Trost.

- Also, I do think that Armin should have died back in RTS since it was the perfect culmination of his arc and Jean should have taken his position as the Colossal & Eren's moral counterpoint since Armin's current arc fits him better + the additional knife twist of dooming a healthy individual to titandom rather than someone on life support would have been nice.

- On the topic of Floch I actually don't mind that he is supposed to be a counterpoint to the Corps as well as a late game antagonist but I don't like how he has been handled. I feel that Floch should have pragmatic to the extreme, the type of character who does what he feels needs to be done but takes no joy or pleasure in it. Like if he was the type that could rationally sit down with Kiyomi, Magath, or Armin and explain his point I think it would deepen the impact of the story and make the ensuing conflict stronger. Unfortunately, I think that Isayama has shown his hand too easily by painting Floch as power hungry, cruel, unstable, and psychotic like some of histories easiest bad guys (Kim Jong Un, Ivan The Terrible etc.). As a result it isn't an interesting depiction of the lure of fascism but rather the simplistic view of fascism as total evil.

- Ultimately if I had to list a common flaw between the two characters it is the dialogue as I just don't find it very well done as it has that awkward cold feel that Japanese writers tend to use (ie. characters announce what they are feeling & talk like robots) and that combined with the simplistic approach which feels closer to an unironic version of South Park then peak HBO (Ie. Floch is dangerously close to saying something like "we're going to fight hate with more hate!") has been the key reason to why I didn't like the chapter or these characters.

- I'll always remember the series for its many high points but this arc has been at best a ambitious mess with one or two great moments (Ex. 116-121 was pretty good & chapter 122 was perfect) and at worst like a flaming trainwreck I can't look away from with dull moments like Sasha's dad going full blown unironic "I learned something today" and the awful Yeagerist plotline constantly reminding me of the superior RDR 2 which truly made me hurt because the betrayals were well written and executed (Ie. using main characters rather than filler, the haunting dialogue) whereas this one has me waiting for them to be disposed of so the Eren conflict can be finished.