Forum:Proposal to Remove NeoSuperior

Fellow Shingeki no Kyojin Wikia users, I am back. To jump right out of the gate I am calling for this community to remove NeoSuperior for the following abuses. This will follow the exact same rules as the vote regarding hfc2x found here. By that same token, if the community decides to demote NeoSuperior from his illegally obtained position, a second poll will go up asking the community how long he should be blocked for, if at all.

1. He was incorrectly promoted during an incredibly turbulent time under sketchy concerns - Last Friday (20th), Hfc2x promoted NeoSuperior to bureaucrat. At the time, Neo did not qualify for the position as per our bureaucrat nomination guidelines By those same binding rules, the process for promoting a bureaucrat was completely and totally ignored. This is a total fault on hfc2x, but it also falls on NeoSuperior. I asked him, repeatedly, to step down from his position and he refused. By these actions I contend that NeoSuperior is an illegal bureaucrat and needs to immediately revert to his rightfully gained position of admin. At the same time, he should promote me back to my admin position that he took away from me wrongly.

2. He took power away from this community - The discussion regarding hfc2x was started Thursday at 5:00 AST, and would expire exactly one week from that time. Before the time expired, NeoSuperior took the power away from the community, declared the vote illegal, and closed it. He completely ignored the votes already counted even though Wikia Staff told me to run things that way. There was also to be a second poll asking the community, the ones who are really in charge, how long hfc2x should be blocked for. That discussion was completely stamped out and never even allowed to happen. In fact, hfc2x was simply allowed to resign from his position in what NeoSuperior admitted was a deal worked out behind the scenes. Clearly, NeoSuperior has no regard for this community since he has actively taken power away from them and used it to his own benefit.

3. He demoted and blocked me for incredibly poor reasons - I never did anything to warrant what happened to me, NeoSuperior demoted and blocked me just before issuing his closing statement on the proposal to remove hfc2x. I was, and still am, among the most capable contributors to this wiki and have been doing a lot of the work on this wiki for a long time. I was stripped of my fairly obtained rank of admin and blocked, for 3 months. Neo claimed this was because I posted screenshots from private conversations, showing that he has no idea why Gourgiest was blocked. He was blocked for forging screenshots, none of mine were forged. Further, I made it very clear that I didn't want to post them and only did when my character was attacked by Gourgiest. By blocking me, Neo insured that no one was left on the wiki who could oppose what he was doing. This was an unfair block, issues for the wrong reasons, and done by an illegal bureaucrat.

If NeoSuperior chooses to step down and promote me back to my old rank of admin, then the second poll asking how long he should be blocked for will go up immediately. I had my issues with hfc2x and brought them to the people of this wiki and was blocked for it. Discussion was completely removed. In my own opinion, NeoSuperior has committed far worse acts than hfc2x and I would ask that the community remove him, and after that, block him.

If you feel cheated out of a chance to block hfc2x in line with what was originally in the proposal, then you can do so here. This is where the discussion about blocking him was originally going to go before it was completely and illegally shut down by NeoSuperior.

Vote Counter
This is where I will keep track of the votes, please only 'vote' in a reply in the discussion section. After that I will add your vote to this counter.

Should NeoSuperior be removed from their position?


 * Yes, they should be removed.
 * 1) --PrelateZeratul (talk) 21:32, March 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) --Do1ball (talk) 00:40, March 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, they should not be removed.

Discussion
I have been a casual contributor to this wiki for only a short time, and I'm not consistent yet in what I wish to do with some pages, but with that being said, I voted on the last discussion to remove hfc2x and did not deter my vote, even after the evidence posted by PrelateZeratul was posted. Although I am a casual, I still personally feel that the rules of this wiki should be followed. Although NeoSuperior has yet to respond to these new allegations, for the time being I will side with PrelateZeratul given his commitment and the information he has posted regarding this and the previous discussions topic. The last topic in particular was wrongfully shut down I feel. Do1ball (talk) 00:39, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

I will list these facts in my defense:

1. I got my bureaucrat rights out of an emergency. It's obvious that you were "involved" in this dispute, but were not self-critical, did not provide the context or the reasons why you think Hfc2x suppoedly treated you and Gourgeist as you claim he did, neither did you describe your own involvment unbiased. All these aspects indicate that you were not in the position to host a discussion about the accused party to be demoted. You also indicated from the beginning that you would "post the conversations, if someone does not believe the accusations", which indicated that you "maintain privacy" out of superficial "goodwill" instead of actually respecting the privacy. You either respect privacy or not. Breaking the privacy of an involved party just to rise your own credibility toward an uninvolved party, while talking about "maintaining privacy" is a very shallow cover for the fact that you did not mind publicizing conversations with Hfc2x, Gourgeist and possibly completely unrelated parties, without their explicit consent in the first place. There is also the fact that you did not even consider trying to reconcile within the confines of the wiki itself. Instead the first thing you explicitly did in the confines of the wiki was proposing the removal of Hfc2x, while as I explained, only having a shallow excuse of maintaining privacy, while manipulating the community to blindly believe you, because you were the one to "talk first". If you really had the community in mind with this, you would first try to actually involve the community in the matters you want to improve (as I explained in the other discussion about the Manual of Style), but you did no such attempts at all. If anyone thinks my reasoning is flawed, then I'd gladly listen. I am open for constructive critisicsm.

2. Since Hfc2x retired from his position, the other thread had fulfilled its purpose (demoting Hfc2x or not) and had no reason for being open anymore. I didn't even actually have the obligation to mention the reason for your block at all there, as that is not done in other cases of blocks either and there is no reason for PrelateZeratul to gain special treatment in that regard, but since I thought it is directly related to it, I mentioned it to avoid unnecessary confusion about it.

3. I don't know any cases of blocks being decided by vote, neither do I belive that you have been told to organize something like that by the wikia staff. You either block someone for a misconduct, or not. It's the same as law enforcement. I don't know about other people, but as for me, I never witnessed the verdict of criminals being given by a majority vote of the state's public.

4. After the last discussion no one objected to my decision to block you, neither did anyone object the fact that I became a bureaucrat. The only thing that happened was someone vandalizing my User page, with the comment "Justice. Ban me if you want, good bye." I think it was done by someone using a sockpuppet account and I think it was one out of two people who I suspect, but since that is unrelated, I keep further speculation regarding that matter to myself.

I also want to mention that I remove the "poll" part out of this, since it was explicitly asked not to make a poll. I will only add it in, if a wikia staff member explicitly asks me to. Your argument to make one out of convienience makes the whole point of banning it moot.

Last but not least I want to mention something here that I thought should be obvious, but it seems it's not. Not realizing it is my mistake and I apologize for it, so here it is:

I banned PrelateZeratul for breaking the Terms of Use. I am mainly refering to following lines:

User Conduct

''You agree that you will not use the Service in any manner that is contrary to the Wikia Community Guidelines, which may be updated from time to time. Without limiting the foregoing, you also agree not to use the Service to:''

[...]


 * Post or transmit any content that is obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive, profane, or otherwise violates any law or right of any third party, or content that contains homophobia, ethnic slurs, religious intolerance, or encourages criminal conduct;

[...]


 * Post any illegal or unauthorized content or use for any illegal or unauthorized purposes;

[...]

You further agree:

[...]


 * Not to upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights of any party;

[...]


 * Not to access, collect or store personal data about other users in connection with the prohibited conduct and activities described in this “User Conduct” section.

Should anyone consider anything in my reasoning to be incorrect, feel free to correct me.

--- NeoSuperior (talk) 00:42, March 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * Alright Neo, I'm glad you responded to my comment and are taking this seriously. However, do not remove the vote counter. You were already warned on your talk page to not interfere with community votes. The poll does nothing but make it easier to find where people stand, no one is allowed to vote without posting a discussion post first, which is exactly what wikia staff told me to do. I have re-added it, and if you take it down again then I will message wikia staff and get them to weigh in.


 * 1. There is no provision for an emergency proposal in our nomination of bureaucrat page. You have absolutely no right to go around those protocols, none at all. Further, the 'emergency' you describe is incredibly subjective. Hfc2x was not going to be removed for another 6 days, he could have easily maintained his position. Or, as I made clear to you, he could have stepped down and left us with basically no bureaucrat for 1 week, after which we could have the community decide the new bureaucrat, which is how it should be. It is not my job to speculate on why hfc2x acted the way he did. I do not and will not speculaate, all I provided was facts and allowed people to draw their own conclusions. Further, your opinion on if I am in the right position to host a discussion is, completely irrelevant. Any user can make a community vote in this manner, these wikias are run by their communities, a fact you all too often ignore. In regards to me and my privacy intentions, you are doing nothing but speculating. I really had no desire to post private conversations, and made it clear several times that I didn't want to. I urged hfc2x several times to accept the truth of what we both knew, not force me to do it. Even then, I still considered not posting them but I was left with no other choice when Gourgiest posted a false screenshot which, if left unproven, would have made me out to be a liar. I am not one and make every effort to speak the truth, something that Gourgiest attempted to conceal. Also as already addressed I do mind posting private screenshots, since I made every conceivable effort to not. I never manipulated the community to blindly believe me, I challenge you to show me one example where I lied or manipulated anyone. Anything I have posted is the truth. As I keep saying, this discussion is run the way wikia staff told me to run it, that fact that you don't like the format is completely irrelevant. Lastly, blocking me and refusing all contact is not being open to discussion and constructive criticism. Further, protecting the hfc2x proposal is not being open either.


 * 2. If you check what was in the proposal before you took it down prematurely, you will see that it included a clause in case hgc2x resigned. It stated that the first discussion would end and the second would go up asking people if he should be blocked, and for how long. In addition to ending the first one (who knows who wanted to vote in that last stretch) you did not put up the second one. No, you had no obligation to mention why you blocked me. That is irrelevant to this discussion, so I have no clue why you posted it, but I'm not going to speculate on your motives.


 * 3. Here is yet another case of you deciding something on your own and ignoring the community. Again, it is irrelevant what you think about blocking someone with a vote. I consider it far more fair for a high-profile user like a bureaucrat, then just leaving it up to one user which you did. It gives them a chance to defend themselves and appeal for lenience in their block. Or, to convince people that they don't deserve to be blocked at all. You let the people decide, not one user. As hfc2x tried to explain, bureaucrats are not bosses of the wiki, they are users trusted to have a few extra buttons. Stop acting like you are in charge of this wiki or the boss, you're not. Also, if you want an example of a vote being taken to block, here's one


 * 4. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. You blocked a user who tried to open discussion and out the problems of our wiki while closing down the forum where you announced my ban. It makes perfect sense to me that no one would publicly oppose what you did. As for the user who violated your user page, I have no idea who that was but I was following the wiki at the time. I wanted to revert it but obviously couldn't due to my ban. That user was not me or anyone I know, they are completely unknown to me.


 * I contend that I violated no terms of use, and am welcome to have that conversation with you, since I don't stamp out community discussion. And if I did, which I'm not conceding that I did in any way, shape or form, I think a warning would have been more appropriate. Also, the block you did was illegal, you are not a legal bureaucrat on this wiki.


 * If you are so innocent and have done nothing wrong Neo, then I challenge you to step down from bureaucrat and promote me back to admin. At that point, both of us will apply for bureaucrat and allow the community, the ones with real power, to decide. Not a back room deal with a bureaucrat who was in the middle of a vote to remove him. Speaking of which, you came out against behind the scenes administering but the 'deal' you worked out with hfc2x was done behind the scenes, which you admitted to in the final post of the hfx2c proposal.--PrelateZeratul (talk) 01:43, March 2, 2015 (UTC)