Board Thread:Manga/@comment-44086949-20191205133131/@comment-44086949-20200124023648

TKGriffiths wrote:

The evidence is that all the characters involved repeatedly state that it's a memory, and you can't touch other people's memories. I said Grisha's not pretending to hug Zeke because he's earnest in his attempt. He doesn't walk up to the apparition with the intention of holding his arms in a way to fool Eren that he's touching it. He's doing it because he's desperate to feel close to the son that he abandoned and show him affection before he dies, and this is as much as he can do...

Everyone present, and every reader that's paying attention, is already fully aware that it's just a memory. Nice try attempting to appeal to emotion, when the only person who isn't paying attention is you.

If it's just a memory, then why doesn't Zeke treat it as such? Just look at all of his reactions, from comfort when he's hugged to sheer panic when they come back to the sandy Paths. He's so shocked at the fact that Grisha can even see him, let alone touch and hug him that he makes the reactionary decision to attempt his plan immediately. If it's true that Grisha can't touch Zeke, how does Zeke feel the warmth of Grisha when he makes the "genuine attempt" to give him affection?

Your argument falls apart just by simply thinking about it. If it's Grisha that can't feel Zeke, why wouldn't Isayama illustrate this, or have him state as such to avoid confusion? Even the wiki says Grisha "embraced" Zeke, with no implication that he's faking it. If it's Zeke that can't feel anything, what reason would he have to believe Eren can do anything more than simply view memories?

This alone complicates your argument to the point that it hangs on BS that hangs onto nothing implied by Isayama, but I'll go ahead and respond to the rest of your abysmal points just to further dismantle it.

TKGriffiths wrote: ...This is as much as he can do. Flapping his arms through Zeke like Kylo Ren sticking his lightsaber through Luke would be a ridiculous thing to do and would totally ruin the emotional impact of the scene. Completely illogical. You're making the grand assumption that, instead of showing that they cannot physically touch in some way(I.E. walking through, a statement by Grisha, or, you know, NOT illustrating them HUGGING in the first place), Isayama makes the stupid decision to make them hug for cheap emotional points, implying that someone is pathologically tricking the other, and it doesn't have to be Eren.

TKGriffiths wrote: The absence of evidence contradicting your insane theory is not permissible as evidence in favour of it. That's Russell's teapot.

The author doesn't depict Grisha falling through Zeke because he's already made it extremely clear that he's merely viewing a memory. Every character involved in the scene repeatedly states that it's only a memory, before and after the fact. You're ignoring that maybe, just maybe it's a figure of speech. It's a non-sequitor to say you can alter history by interacting with the memories convenient to the user, as memories aren't tangible, and Eren and Zeke interacted with the events visited.

I'm not putting the burden of proof on anybody but myself, as I have already listed a multitude of evidence to support my "insane" theory. What you have done is ignored the evidence, and instead proposed your own easily-debunkable theory to counter mine without listing any evidence to support it, which means you're committing the same fallacies you accuse me of, except I don't rely on them to debunk it.

TKGriffiths wrote: It's extraordinary claims that require extraordinary evidence. Your claim of physical time travel, intangibility, invisibility is the extraordinary one because it contradicts everything that we're seeing and everything that the characters are saying. The claim that it's a memory and obviously nobody is touching each other is mundane and obvious, it's the default position. Once again, you are taking their words by their absolute literal meaning without going any deeper. This series is already extraordinary on its own being a fantasy series; it's not an extraordinary claim given that it has already literally and figuratively both shown and told us that they physically time travelled. You already believe Zeke is intangible to Grisha, but you somehow take the extra leap in logic to say it's because they're not actually there. They are also quite literally invisible to the Reiss family, but feel free to argue that they ignored/pretended not to see Eren behind Grisha.

TKGriffiths wrote: I haven't even mentioned the gigantic plot holes that are apparent to anyone who's given this a moment's thought. If Grisha (the founding titan) was able to touch Zeke (a titan of royal blood), don't you think he would have done something about the titans attacking Shiganshina? You know, the very reason he went there to acquire the founder in the first place? Or failing that, perhaps use his asspull physical time travel powers that you also believe Grisha posesses? This is only a plot hole if you're neglect the fact that he foresaw this attack before meeting the Reiss family. Let's say he didn't, and he found out about it by touching Freida or Zeke, it's long too late for prevention, as it's nighttime and the attacks happened immediately after his departure in the daytime. The last thing to do is to let Eren eat him.

Also, only Eren and Zeke have time travel capabilities, as it's a royal ability. Zeke was already in a different state of mind after being embraced by his father, and he was cut off from Grisha before any sort of rational planning could have been made to let him into the Paths Realm.

TKGriffiths wrote:

Oh and since I didn't clarify, you can of course make the case that Zeke might be able to feel Grisha within the memory world. Eren and Zeke don't fall through the ground in the memory, they're shown leaning on parts of the scenery, and opening 'doors' to move from one memory to another. (Which obviously weren't there in reality when the memories actually happened, much like Eren and Zeke aren't really there) I'm gonna ignore your "doors don't exist in buildings" argument because it's redundant. The fact they can lean on or interact with any non-living scenery is proof enough that the paths realm is physical. This is even supported in recent chapters when inanimate objects like Mr. Leonhart's cane is transported into the paths realm, as he drops it in the sand and it is found missing when he is returned to earth.

But ignoring ALL of that, I'm glad you decided on which person out of Grisha v Zeke can feel each other. You have confirmed your stance; only Zeke can feel. I've already raised my question, but I'll say it again. Why would Isayama illustrate Grisha hugging Zeke if he never intended for them to touch? Why would he be illustrated with tears of joy if he couldn't even feel him? If only Zeke can feel, what would happen if Grisha squeezed until there was no gap beteen his arms and his chest? Would that be a durability-ignoring lethal blow?

With all these contradictions, leaps in logic, fallacies and fact ignoring agruments your hypothesis relies on, your assessment is less than headcanon in regards to plausibility, at least headcanon fills in the gaps untouched by the author. Your argument however completely contradicts what is shown without any reliable evidence to back it up.​​​​​​