Talk:Levi Ackerman

Petra's feelings
Ok, Petra had feelings for Levi as assumed he felt the same for her. As we all know, Levi is humanity's strongest. And rudest. But, he DID gaurd her body until the Female Titan had sent a few abnormals to track down the troops. Then that scene where Hajime Isayama decided to scrue with our emotions and watch as her body is flung from the cart and, essentially, stop the titans. (Sacrifice from beyond death.. MY TEARS ARE REAL)

I ship Ereri. So hard.

BUT if Petra would have lived, I would pay to see that wedding.Marco Kirschtein (talk) 23:13, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

Hajime Isayama wasn't the one who created the scene where Levi watches Petra's corpse get thrown off the cart. That scene (along with Dieter demanding to go back and retrieve his childhood friend in titan territory) wasn't in the manga at all. The director was the one who added that scene in the anime. So it was the director's choice entirely to add that extra little scene into the anime and to hint Rivetra along the way. Also, after being asked by a fan, Hajime Isayama stated that if Squad Levi was still alive, Petra and Oluo would've gotten married.

Also, I've heard many theories regarding what Petra's father meant when he was talking to Levi. So after digging through different translations of the manga and anime for that scene, I gathered that what Petra's father could've possibly meant is: Petra's been sending him letters saying how 'honoured' she was to be chosen in the Special Ops Squad and how she was going to 'devote' herself to saving humanity. Petra's father then stated that Petra never really thought about how worried her parents must've felt to have their daughter be in the Special Ops Squad in the Survey Corps. Petra's parents wanted her to get married, settle down and not be in the Survey Corps. But after reading all the letters Petra has been sending about how honoured and happy she was, Petra's father realized that she was 'too young to marry' and had 'a whole life ahead of her to explore'. So it was sort of like Petra's father finally was happy to let her daughter 'explore' outside the walls in the Survey Corps. 14.201.114.215 10:18, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

Stats
Please include the stats for Levi.Vanihba2000 (talk) 00:59, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Stuff
Allow me to write my thoughts on certain aspects of this manga/anime. I can bring in a few insights of mine to flourish this wikia. Thanks. Zubsz (talk) 18:06, July 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, if I understand, you want to post some kind of a review? In that case, feel free to make a blog for that ^^ 18:16, July 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * No but i want to help out with what you're doing. if i can be of any help that is. Zubsz (talk) 18:25, July 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ahh I see. ^_^ Well, anyone is free to edit as long as the information added to the articles is written well enough and its source is either anime or manga, in other words, no speculations or even fanfics should be added. 18:40, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Name Origin

 * It says that "Levi" is a Hebrew name of "disputed origin" and that it means "He who joins".  First of all, "Levi" is not of "disputed origin" - it is very clearly the name of Jacob's 3rd son in the Bible (Book of Genesis) and is a very traditional Hebrew name.  Although "He who joins" is not a completely inaccurate translation, it is better translated as "The Accompanied", from the Hebrew word מלווה, to accompany or to escort.  The Biblical origin of the name is because Levi's mother, Leah, states that this 3rd son will accompany (or join with) her other two sons, Reuben and Simeon.   Notably, Simeon and Levi (when paired) were considered an unstoppable military force, as they together wiped out the people of Shechem after they raped the brothers' sister Dina - so ascribing the name Levi to the character may be subtle reference to his military prowess, where Commander Irwin serves the analagous partner to the Biblical Levi's brother Simeon.
 * -Nathan J Xaxson
 * 115.114.27.211 06:56, September 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not to mention, Ackerman is a somewhat common Ashkenazi Jewish surname.
 * 24.28.191.42 12:30, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Video of Episode 22 fight between Female Titan and Levi
Could you please put the video where Levi attacks the Female Titan? It is considered the best fight scene. I really appreciate it.Jennicious (talk) 03:41, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWZCl7RqpN4

Captain vs Lance Corporal
I've been bugged by this mix of title-naming with Levi due to the vastly differing rank of Captain vs Lance Corporal. As such, I have since bothered to look up the differences and possible reasoning for either translation. After a long search, I've come to the conclusion that Lance Corporal could very well have been a minor mistranslation. I managed to find a blog post concerning this that breaks it down and why Captain is possibly the more accurate title for Levi: click here the link What do you guys think? It seems pretty spot-on, and while some may argue that using "Lance Corporal" makes sense due to SNK being of Japanese origin, one could also argue that the very nature and camaraderie shared by Squad Levi reflects the same medieval inspiration as outlined by the blog post, and as such, makes for a convincing argument for the use of the term "Captain". DementedP (talk) 04:58, September 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Having read that previously, a point that they make is that he is a "Captain" because "Corporal" is a low rank, which would mean Hanji at the very least would outrank him, as a "Major". However, official sources state that he outranks her.


 * But, a "Captain" is still outranked by a "Major", so, really, that doesn't change anything.


 * Secondly, The Kanji used to refer to Levi is "兵長", which is a rank equivalent to "Lance Corporal".


 * Thirdly, it's always possible that Isayama is just making things up however he likes for any number of reasons. (Maybe he thinks Lance Corporal sounds cooler than Captain? Who knows.)


 * And lastly, it /is/ a work of fantasy. Giant Titans? Humans transforming into titans? There is a great deal of artistic license in terms of being realistic there.


 * As for which to use... I suppose, use whatever the official translation uses, and try to be consistant everywhere.


 * Though, personally, I do prefer 'Corporal'. (Sounds better, at least to me) Felix*Pillow (talk) 13:24, September 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually your point just proves what I'm trying to say. Crunchyroll's English subs have just opted to call Hanji a "Squad Leader" to avoid any of the misconceptions to be had with the title-naming. Again you're forgetting that Levi's title (not rank, "title") isn't "heichou"  it's "heishichou", the fact that heichou is described as a nickname that is used by his group shows how it isn't a rank at all. Also again, Corporal and Lance Corporal are two completely different ranks altogether, and the interchanging use between the two is probably an oversight by shoddy translations of the manga. Also who said anything about SNK not being a fantasy? I don't see how that's relevant to what I'm saying at all. I'm just talking about the use of various terms and how it should/could be translated into English. No more, no less. DementedP (talk) 18:44, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Heiseichou is used in a formal setting where he is 'rank' is to be used, something like 'Leader of the Soliders', and indeed Heichou is what his subordinates call him. But as you said, since the former isn't actually a rank and isn't oft used, the latter has been taken as his 'rank' by various translators, most likely.
 * And, really? CR is the shining, stunning example of translations, I suppose.
 * Well, no-one said it wasn't a fantasy. What I was trying to say was, that, as a fantasy, not everything is going to be realistic. Ranks and anything else in there could just be completely made up and be done however Isayama pleases. Felix*Pillow (talk) 04:15, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Abilities
Could you please add a video where Levi vs Female Titan in Episode 22: The Defeated?209.129.168.31 16:42, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Relationship
I have a question. Is Levi going have his own section on Relationship?Jennicious (talk) 21:10, October 29, 2013 (UTC) What?  h fc 2 X  22:28, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Most of the character have a relationship section like Mikasa, Armin, Jean, Eren, Pretra, & etc.Jennicious (talk) 01:39, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, you can add it if you want. I don't think you're blocked, so I see no reason why you aren't editing articles already.  h fc 2 X  08:23, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering if somebody could elaborate more on his relationship with Erwin. Not in the shipper kinda elaborate but it leaves out a lot of canon facts about their relationship. The Eren one is pretty accurate though. Anonoderp (talk) anonoderp

What happen to Levi's relationship? 67.169.57.52 09:53, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

did you already saw the translation of Levi's relationship chart from the guidebook? It said that Levi trust Erwin and very concerned about Eren and Mikasa. Well Ithink you should include that fact.Arhipel (talk) 05:29, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

The thing is, many people ship Levi with themselves, and you really can't blame them.24.140.168.190 19:52, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

Spin-Off
I may have missed the discussion, but has any decision been made concerning the material from the "Choice with No Regrets" spin-off? Are we considering that canon material to be included in the profiles of the pre-existing cast (Levi, Erwin, Mike, Hange)?

Harostar (talk) 11:03, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

I suggest adding 'Appearances in other medias' section at the bottom of the article(s). 11:57, December 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm working on this!! Please be patient :(  h fc 2 X  18:21, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Stats edit
Wouldn't a cleanliness 11/10 be more apropriate?
 * "More appropriate"? Sure, bro, we're making up these stats to what we deem more "appropriate". We don't use official sources at all.  h fc 2 X  02:58, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

Comparisons
You know, not for nothing, but I looked everywhere on this site, and nowhere does it say that comparisons to other series can't be made. Not only that, but the edit I had made was to the trivia section of the article, which is comprised of little tidbits that would otherwise be considered irrelevant. Prime example, the little bit about his motif being based on Rorscach from Watchmen. That's not something you would put outside the trivia section. Likewise with my comparison between Levi and Trafalgar Law.

As for Ymir having similarities with Ace, I fail to see them, and not through lack of any attempt at observation neither. However, that's not related to Levi in any way, shape, or form, which is why I wouldn't put that in an article that talks about him. In short, I only talk about stuff in articles, or add things, if I see at least some relevance for any particular section. I ain't gonna be the guy who vandalizes the Wikipedia article on George Patton, making fun of him by adding to the first paragraph of his history, "where he was crowned king of farts." That's just plain stupid. Virsteinn (talk) 10:30, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

We simply don't do that, it's considered junk trivia. We could sit here all day talking about how one character resembles another, but in the end, it's just subjective opinion and as such, doesn't belong to a wikia article, an article that is supposed to be made of clear facts. 11:36, March 6, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not to mention "the little bit about his motif" being mentioned by the author himself is what makes it relevant. Not that we came up with that comparison, and even that part needs to be referenced.  h fc 2 X  13:44, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

That's all well and good, but then you have that part about the origins of his name. That can also be considered subjective opinion because while that may or may not be what his name means, people that agree with it will find different ways to say the same thing, and in the end, it's just plain confusing. For example, my real name also came from Hebrew, and for the longest time, I thought it meant, "boy of God." Now, as it turns out, it doesn't, and I have yet to find its true meaning. Virsteinn (talk) 00:19, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

As for his Seiyū, that part could be left in because that is a clear fact. It could also be expanded to include other series than just the one I mentioned. It'd be like if I were to talk about Robert Downey Jr. being in the Brat Pack, while everyone else knows him as Sherlock Holmes and Tony Stark. Virsteinn (talk) 00:23, March 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * The origin of his name's been stated by Isayama himself, that's why you see it in the article. We do not add things that we just "think are okay to add", not even references to other works if they aren't officially stated as facts first. The Rorschach thing is an example, as Isayama himself has stated he somewhat based Levi on him. And sharing a voice actor (did you know that the word "seiyū" is originally a derogatory term?) isn't anything notable, or we would have included in Ymir's article that she shares voice actor with Hatsune Miku or Eren's voice is also the voice of multiple anime perverts. It's not relevant at all to the SnK universe, nor means anything to the character itself.  h fc 2 X  01:42, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

Well, perhaps the trivia policy (which really should be written out) is different from the other wikis that I've been to. For example, I go onto the One Piece wiki, and on their article about a specific "Devil Fruit" ability, in its trivia section, it says, and I quote, "This Devil Fruit power is reminiscent in appearance and effect to the Mouth Energy Waves used by certain characters in the Dragon Ball series." Like with my contribution to the article here about Levi sharing similarities in design and personality, as well as a Seiyū, with Trafalgar Law, that part of the One Piece wiki article means nothing to the ability itself.

Now, through a little more effort than just a surface glance at one article, I could probably generate a list both on the One Piece wiki and off it of similar instances of content that is neither relevant to the particular universe whatever wiki is dedicated to nor of any meaning to the article's item itself. My point is, if a rule, like this one, isn't written, it's not worth trying to enforce. I'm sure they have similar rules over there, and yet that part about that ability being reminiscent to another ability from a completely different series is still there.

You might ask, "Well, do you have any proof that the mangaka hasn't explicitly pointed out that similarity?" The answer to that is, in this case, that I do. I have read all of Eiichiro Oda's words, all of his SBS issues, everything, and not once did he reference Dragon Ball. He's done crossovers, but that's different. As for the list, assuming I make one, I wouldn't put items in it if I didn't have any information pertaining to the mangaka's official quotes. Virsteinn (talk) 07:30, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

Levi Ackerman
It is mentioned in the manga (in the most recent pages) that Levi's second name may be Ackerman. Just like Mikasa. So I recommend whoever edits this wiki to check it out.

Rinskuro13 15:32, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, we're aware of that. Thanks 14:44, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

Could you remove the name Ackerman from the wiki and just put his name as Levi? Some people don't want to read the manga and putting his name as 'Levi Ackerman' is a huge spoiler. You could write in which arc his name is revealed but as soon as you google 'Levi Attack on Titan' the name 'Levi Ackerman' comes up which ruins the surprise for anyone who hasn't watched the anime, or who has but doesn't want to read the manga. I just think it's kind of selfish of all manga-readers to spoil things for anime-watchers like that and it'd be nicer if you removed it at least from the introduction and the title.

Cousharielana (talk) 10:39, April 13, 2014 (UTC)Cousharielana

From what I understand, the policy here is a general "read at your own risk". The moderators and contributors work hard to keep information accurate and up to date. They have no control over external sites such as Google, and any time you search something popular....you are running the risk of encountering spoilers. Anyone thinking they can search a super-popular franchise or its most popular character and not run into spoilers is kind of fooling themselves and underestimating the internet. --Harostar (talk) 10:54, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Is it so wrong to not want to have chapter 56 of a manga I haven't read spoiled when I'm googling Levi's height? You assume that everyone knows how this wiki works but apparently that comes *after* the spoilers. It's hard not to see it anyway because it's one of the very first search results when you google the character, whether you want to see the wiki or not, so avoiding it is no mean feat.

I understand that people work hard to provide relevant information, but that relevant information could easily be kept under the arc that it's relevant to, in which case reading it would be my fault, but it's not categorised.

Cousharielana (talk) 15:06, April 13, 2014 (UTC)Cousharielana

If people who search up Levi don't even know his name, then that would be a problem, wouldn't it? The wiki has the responsibility to provide relevant and up-to-date information. A character's name doesn't count as a spoiler.

Rinskuro13 15:31, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

At first i was a little surprised when I saw "Ackerman" had already been added to the wikia when googling Levi. First thought was "SPOILED A PLOT TWIST!!" (good thing I already read the latest chapter) but I understand the objective of this wiki. It's just like how you would google "Tobi" and Obito Uchiha will be the first thing that shows up in the google search. It's unfortunate for whoever does a careless search, but it's just how the Internet is.

Supersalad24 (talk) 15:50, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

True, true. How wise you are my friend *cry* I think it's weird how his name is the same as Mikasa's. But they're also really similar so I guess they might be related.

For now, the internet is a shortcut to everything.

Rinskuro13 17:06, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not asking for it to be taken down, just moved. Doesn't it make much more sense, as Levi's second name is a plot twist [either significant now or to become so, I assume], to put it under the arc in which it was discovered? That way you don't ruin the manga for people who haven't read it just to tell those who have what they already know. If it's done that way, people who want to know can read it, people who don't don't have to, and people who know - well, they know already, so why does it matter to them?

It's just moving information to make things more diplomatic. Nothing spoiled, nothing removed. That was the point I was making, not that the information didn't have to be there. The page would be no less up-to-date if the information were kept in a place where it doesn't ruin the story for someone else.

Cousharielana (talk) 20:58, April 13, 2014 (UTC)Cousharielana


 * You are misunderstanding something. The wiki is a database. We simply list the facts of everything about the topic. It is unthinkable for us to add another "consumer factor" into it. The amount of work and care this requires would go way beyond anything that people would do in their own free time. I understand the problem with Google, but there is nothing we can do about that.
 * I also want to note that this wiki started before the anime aired, thus it is logical to say that it is primarily dedicated to the manga, although we include the whole franchise here. NeoSuperior (talk) 23:03, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

No, we won't do anything in regards to manga spoilers. Anime is over and it won't start again for quite some time. We're not at fault if someone gets spoiled by the information hosted on this wiki; rather, it's the fault of the viewers who take full risk on themselves when looking up stuff about the series that they are not caught up with, when they are fully aware that this site and literally entire internet is bound to contain spoilers. 09:14, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

This has been a topic on other wikias as well but as he said it is a read at your own risk website. Munchvtec (talk) 14:11, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Colossal Spoiler
Thanks for the spoiler :)

It's not a spoiler if you've read the manga. Gurgatory (talk) 01:32, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

Read the discussion above. It's not our fault if you spoil yourself by searching about a series you're not caught up with. And besides that, you've earned yourself a block for the insults.  h fc 2 X  04:07, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

His last name is not Ackerman....It is Heichou, so Mikasa and him aren't related

That's a joke, right? --Harostar (talk) 04:21, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Omg hahahaa that's hilarious Gurgatory (talk) 06:53, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

So we had "Levi Rivaille", then "Levi Heichou"... what next? Anyway, "Levi Ackerman" does not even necessarily mean that Levi and Mikasa are related. Levi could just have been adopted by Kenny. NeoSuperior (talk) 11:56, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Next it will be Levi Yeager as the fans designate them as lovers Gurgatory (talk) 19:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Calling it
I'm calling it, Levi is Mikasas real father! Now I'm off to home, the dumbass forest.

MyNameIsNotDave (talk) 12:35, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Please use blog posts to talk about theories or discuss the story. Talk pages are for discussion about the article.  h fc 2 X  16:06, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

who finds Levi as cute Hinata 910 (talk) 03:00, December 24, 2014 (UTC)Hinata910

Levi being aware of his last name
I read in the article that Levi wasn't surprised that his last name is 'Ackerman'. But I haven't seen that in the manga that he was confronted with his last name. And I'm up to date with the manga. Or have I missed that? Iread the latest 20 chapter all over again but again, I haven't seen it. 77.249.94.199 17:30, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

I believe that this was referring to him not being surprised by Kenny's last name. He was a bit shocked for a second before having a "that makes sense" expression on his face. I believe that this is what that line referrs to.AlexM123 (talk) 06:23, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

Too long
This page is ridiculously long and in desperate need of culling. The summaries in particular are far too detailed and just go on forever and ever, they're more detailed than the manga itself. I might start that process soon. TourguideNixon (talk) 03:47, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems the problem is with the Uprising Arc section, the others seem short enough. Maybe the Personality section should be reduced too. --Manuel de la Fuente (talk) 05:18, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * If there are going to be any major changes made to Levi's page like cutting out sections of the Uprising Arc I request that a debate precede it.--PrelateZeratul (talk) 05:21, March 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * I had previously agreed with TourguideNixon on this regard. Those descriptions are overly long and fraught with unnecessary details. We should be more concise and focus only in the most important facts, not every insignificant detail. Manuel de la Fuente (talk) 05:38, March 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree to shortening the summaries some, so long as they're at least a paragraph. Preferably no more than maybe 20 sentences, give or take, for each "arc" we're trying to cover. I agree with shortening the Personality section as well. It's probably the longest Personality section out of all the character pages for no reason at all. I suggest, for the Personality section, removing examples and replacing them with reference links instead. EternalLocket (talk) 20:39, March 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * I support this suggestion.--Manuel de la Fuente (talk) 21:26, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

Levi's Age
So, when you think about how old Levi (possibly) was when he joined the Military and how many years have gone by since then, you realize just how old he really is and how wrong reading fan-fictions about him and a newly added Cadet are when they don't state they've changed his age. Levi was somewhere between 16 and 20 years old when he met Erwin in the Underground for the mission he'd taken with Isabel and Farlan. His first Expedition was the 23rd Expedition and Erwin had yet to become Commander of the Survey Corps, he was just a Captain at the time and planned the Expedition budget and formation. The show starts in year 845 when the walls fell, then 850 when the 57th Expedition came around. That's a 34 year difference and with the previous guess on how old he was, that would make Levi between 50 and 60 years old.

SkyeQ (talk) 22:52, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

So, when you think about how old Levi (possibly) was when he joined the Military and how many Expeditions he's been on since then, you realize just how old he really is. Levi's first Expedition with Farlan and Is22:52, May 8, 2015 (UTC)SkyeQ (talk)abel was the 23rd ExpeSkyeQ (talk) 22:52, May 8, 2015 (UTC)dition, and that was 34 years before this current Expedition, the 57th. Levi must've been around 16 t So, when you think about how old Levi (possibly) was when he joined the Military and how many Expeditions he's been on since then, you realize just how old he really is. Levi's first Expedition with Farlan and Isabel was the 23rd Expedition, and that was 34 years before this current Expedition, the 57th. Levi must've been around 16 to 20 some odd years old when he joined which would now make him 50 to 60 years old. He's a very well preserved old man.

o 20 some odd years old when he joined which would now make him 50 to 60 years old. He's a very well preserved old man.

So, when you think about how old Levi (possibly) was when he joined the Military and how many Expeditions he's been on since then, you realize just how old he really is. Levi's first Expedition with Farlan and Isabel was the 23rd Expedition, and that was 34 years before this current Expedition, the 57th. Levi must've been around 16 to 20 some odd years old when he joined which would now make him 50 to 60 years old. He's a very well preserved old man.


 * I was just guessing for if they went on an expedition once every year. If they went on an expedition twice a year then he'd be younger by about 20 years. I don't think he looked to be in his twenties when he joined, but he may have been, only Isayama knows how old he really is and without him saying this is how old he is then and now I feel he's leaving it up to the fans of the show to attempt to uncover is age with the very little information he has put out there​. He's either a well preserved 50 someodd year old man, or he's somewhere in his thirties to fourties.


 * If this seems out of place when you preview it, I apologize to the confusion it may cause. I have no idea how to maneuver around editing part of Wikia. SkyeQ (talk) 02:23, May 18, 2015 (UTC)


 * Where are you getting your info on how often they go on expeditions? If we take the No Regrets events into account, they must go on multiple expeditions within a year. The No Regrets events take place in the year 844. Isayama has only given a vague answer about his age, stating he is "older than 30". So he was likely well into his twenties before he joined the Survey Corps. Personally, I never did the math, I always guessed he was in his late thirties to early forties; based only off of Isayama's comment. We also have to take into account the "ages" of those around him at those early points in his life. Like Kenny Ackerman, though neither of their ages are ever stated, he has known Levi since he was a little boy. The newest chapter has just recently come out so I won't say anymore about there relationship, though I doubt Levi is as old as you suggest. Though his age seems to be setting in, considering that sprained ankle earlier in the series did quite a number on him. EternalLocket (talk) 23:24, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

preserved

Levi's Death
Levi is gonna die it is hinted at chapter 69 i think,to strengthen the Reason for eren to kil all the titan,and also he's just a supporting character :(,You cna already see whos gonn survive if you point your mouse to the character list   ;) 49.150.27.168 04:02, May 18, 2015 (UTC)

Levi's Age
Does anyone know his age?

81.159.121.166 05:14, July 17, 2015 (UTC)ellaR


 * Right now, only Hajime Isayama. He hasn't said much about his age, only that he is older than 30; and if I'm not mistaken, surprisingly old. Please add a title next time so it's clear what the topic is about before opening the page. EternalLocket (talk) 05:46, July 17, 2015 (UTC)