Board Thread:Manga/@comment-27321453-20200408113657/@comment-44328804-20200527170022

Eden Ushinatta wrote: Attackcjc wrote: Eden Ushinatta wrote: Attackcjc wrote: Ah, i see now. But, if this were the case, why would he push Mikasa and Armin away from him in such a manner? He even told Louise to throw Mikasa's scarf away. From what you've wrote it doesn't seem to me like you think that his endgame requires him getting sacrificed (i agree with you, Code Geass route is BS). If this was really what he wanted to do, there would be no need for him to cut ties with them. If his plan was just making Paradis and Marley talk, then all this drama was unnecessary.

Not to mention that the whole "talking" thing is Armin's character arc, not Eren's. It would be redundant for Isayama to give these 2 the same mindset and it would render their ideological arguments meaningless and cheap drama.

Also, it seems like you don't remember it, but Marley's treatment of Eldians is far better than that of other countries. Marley alone isn't the problem. Just a fraction of it. And Eren's actions up to now show how little self-restraint he has. He murdered innocents in Liberio and the Yeagerists did the same as well. To the rest of the world, the words of a mass-murderer who casually destroyed the walls and released the colossal titans, even if he was bluffing at the time, should mean nothing. Now that they know how real the threat of Paradis is, they would surely try to develop weapons to annihilate them all.

As such, genociding the entire world is the most effective way to eliminate the danger of the people of Paradis being wiped out from the face of the earth in a war against the world. Does it eliminate violence completely? No. It doesn't. Not at all. But does it matter? No. Because, in the end, as long as it's simply the paradisians who exist, even if a war were to break to out, it would only be between them. Which means that in the end paradisians will still be standing. Why he pushed them away is one of the many ques we still need answered from him. But from what I can tell, he wanted to push them into the right mindsets, as he wanted to free Mikasa from the slave bond (hence the scarf thing too), and he needed to snap Armin out of his pacificist mindset too, which was detrimental in this case in all honesty. On that note, look how Armin is pushing himself into a fighting attitude now. He might realize soon that just talking was never an option, and snap out of his pacifism, and then Eren might show to be more open to talks like he hopes. But all in all, he may had cut ties to keep them away from tough choices that they clearly wouldn't want to make.

I never forgot how Marley treated their eldians better, but they're also the ones pushing the propaganda against them, and THEN, they called for an unjust attack against the island and falsely called Eren a "rebel against peace". Not sure if you forgot that, but Eren wasn't the bad guy there, and his "lack of self-restraint" is an imaginary issue. What was he supposed to do? Sorry to say, but it sounds like you're bordering on another thing his unreasonable haters dwelled on: the imaginary argument of other options, which there weren't any, yet they go on saying they were and it was proven time and time again there wasn't AT ALL.

Eren's bluff with the rumbling can work, as he can prove that if he says he will "destroy the world" but then show the desire and restraint not to when he could've, that's an effective way to prove to the world that he isn't the devil. A show of force like that can work, and its the only way to really show the propaganda is false since they ate it up without considering it can be false. Even if he seemed he validated the threat at first, he didn't have a choice with how he was backed into a corner. So if he makes it look like its true only to show it isn't, that can be very persuasive.

Its ur call to believe what you think the best option is. You want to believe it is genocide? Go right ahead, I won't think anything bad of you lol but all the evidence really points to my theory more than yours. I'm not saying I will turn out right completely, as I haven't already, but most who heard my arguement realized I wasn't leaping at all, and the few who called me along the lines of a "delusional Eren fanboy" didn't necessarily have good arguments either. But either way, you were more reasonable than most who think along the same lines as you, so I have no issue you debating this with me for the sake of conversation. Here's hoping we can continue this soon next month (in a week or so) with the series HOPEFULLY returning after it went on hiatus this month, but I didn't hear anything yet about that but keeping my fingers crossed. Yeah, i do also hope that chapter 129 will be released in June, because it's already been too long.

Anyway, back to the topic, there is no such thing as an Ackerbond/slavebond whatever. This has already been disproven numerous times. Also your argument about Armin contradicts entirely your view of Eren. You say that Eren verbally and physically assaulted Armin, because he wanted to "break him out" of his "talking" mindset. Yet then you say that Eren's goal is to make Eldia and Marley talk. How does that make any sense to you?

How come Eren is not a rebel against peace? The dude can't live in peace. He couldn't live peacefully as a child, he can't live peacefully as an adult. When he was a kid he wanted to go outside the walls, slay titans and see the ocean. How is that peaceful? The dude was complaining about peace every day, he used to call the old days as "false peace". Joining the SC is anything but wanting peace. You know who wanted peace? Jean did. And Eren used to call him coward. Then Eren took part in an uprising to overthrow a monarchy that actually tried to preserve peace inside the walls. Well, the ones bound to the King's oath anyway, because the aristocrats only wanted to preserve their riches.

Post-timeskip, the "peaceful" Eren went ahead and killed civilians, got 8 SC members killed, because of his actions, then inspired a fucking fascist movement led by Hitler's son in law aka Floch, who now tries to kill his best friends, the ones he really wanted to protect. Let's also not forget another coup d'etat and breaking down all the walls, which in turned led to the deaths of many citizens that he supposedly wanted to protect and property damage. If Eren wanted to do what you say he wants, then the best action would have been to awaken noly the colossals sleeping inside Shiganshina, which had already been evacuated. It is known afterall that only the titans sleeping in Shiganshina are enough to destroy the world army. But, Eren released all of them.

And, be sure, i agree with you. I agree that he had no choice to do anything else. Especially in Liberio. Was he supposed to die? Of course not. I'm with you here. The difference between us is that i see things factually. You don't. Was Eren right or wrong to kill innocents? Who cares? It was necessary. But you can't present that as "peaceful". Of course he will be labelled as a "Rebel againt peach". And rightfully so.

Moving on to "Eren's bluff". If you think that such a retarded plan can work, then you haven't seen enough of reality. I understand that this is a work of fiction, so things like that might happen, but AoT tries to portray some things realistically. The only thing that this "bluff" shows is that Eren can threaten them and toy with their lives whenever he feels like it. He killed them in Liberio, he spares them now, he will kill them later when he wakes up the wrong way. That wouldn't be talk. That would be the entire world doing Eren's biding, until they can create weapons powerful enough to stop the Rumbling and fuck Paradis up, since it's an island filled with Eren-fanboys and fangirls. Not a single person in his/her right mind would ever trust a country led by a guy like Eren.

As for your so called "Evidence", well, you haven't provided any. You confuse evidence with "your logic". Sure it makes sense to you, but it's not supported by the story. And you would be very wrong to believe that the majority of the fandom agrees with your ideas. Personally, i think that you couldn't be more wrong in assessing Eren's goal. And i do in fact think that genocide is the only "Safe" solution. Does that mean that i want Eren to succeed? Fuck no. I want him to be defeated by Mikasa. And then i want him to get eaten by Gabi. Because i like this development better, because it improves the story. And i will prove that in a separate thread of mine. Using actual evidence. Wait until then. Wow, not onlt haveyou really misunderstood me here, you contradicted yourself.

The slave bond was NEVER disproved. The only thing that was disproven was that Eren hated Mikasa, which was easy to figure since day 1. Also, nothing contradicts those characters. The problem was that Armin just wanted to talk without fighting, which was impossible. I never said there could never be a discussion, just that you have to fight for it. Nothing wrong with Eren fighting then being open to peace talks, nor Armin realizing he has to fight before getting his wish.

Eren isn't the "rebel against peace" that Willy painted him as. Yes, he's had a tough life of fighting, but nothing like how Willy said. Nice to know we agree on the liberio fight, cuz the main difference between you and me there is, like Eren haters, you clearly see the worst in him following that. I never said Eren was "peaceful" but he is fighting a tough battle in the GREY for a peaceful outcome in the end. What made you think I don't go by the facts? I've been calling it as it is this whole time.

On that note, my WHOLE perception here is based solidly on details. I've gone by things Eren have said to Reiner right before the Liberio attack, along with other details before the time skip that supported my view of Eren, and most agreed. I'm no fanboy, and if Eren truly was a villain, I'd call it how it is, but the truth is, as you yourself have also said, him being a villain is stupid, so there must be something else up. Also, let's not call our theories words like "retarded" or "non factual" as you don't want me saying that about yours, and believe me, alot of people would think that about your theory, especially that bit about Gabi. Besides, you even said yourself that Eren being killed will solve NOTHING, so what good would Gabi eating him do, nevermind how you think it will "improve" the story. So if there is anything from my evidence you don't understand, tell me and I'll prove it to you. I didn't make up most agreeing with me, you can't make that up. I've talked about Eren like this for 2 years now, and I'm going by conversations I've had both here and on Youtube.

I look forward to hearing what your theory is though, and I'll be sure to be more understanding of it than you were here with mine. I'll wait til then to hear how your theory is better than mine. Just something to add about Eren: you make him sound like he is just the same as he was at the beginning. He's NOT. He's developed immensely, and he's far from the boy who just wanted to kill titans with a vengeance, which is also not the fervor he has to fighting Marley, and he's proved that right before the Liberio attack. You just think he wants to control the world or something? Not only is there no proof of that, but he's proven to be a deeper character than that. He literally told Reiner that not only did he drop his season 2 death threat, but he no longer views the rest of the world as enemies, but as people just like him. It's your perception of him that not's supported by the story, and is also using "logic" over evidence. So say things go the way I think they are, and peace is then assured, Eren can use the founding titan power to destroy the titans and remove the threat from the world. I've gotten props for this kind of theory numerous times, and btw, if you look higher up in this thread, I dropped a theory pertaining to this and how the state of Marley was left up to debate, and people liked it. So you saying my theories only make sense to me and not supported by the story doesn't really hold up for you.

I'll be checking for that theory of yours. I'm honestly interested in hearing you out about this.

Honestly, if any of else only went by "logic", not evidence, its you. I know we agreed on the same details Since most of the things you want to hear i'll cover in my post concerning how the series will end, i won't delve too deep here, as it's pointless. However, there has been no single evidence here that supports you theory. Where is the evidence that Eren wants Eldia and Marley to talk? Isn't that the core of your theory? That Eren wants to unite the world? Prove it. Post pictures from the manga or interviews from Isayama that prove it. That's evidence.

You don't use evidence. You use headcannon. Also, you'd be sorely mistaken to think that you writing theories and analyses concerning Eren for 2 years means anything. Prove it to me that people agree with you. No, better, prove to me that the majority agrees with you. Post the results of some poll or something with a big enough number of voters. Then prove how you being popular in the AoT community means that you are also going to be "right".

That's what evidence means. One last thing, not that it matters to you, but you would be wrong to confuse me with Eren's haters. I'm about as close as you can get to supporting him, without wanting the story to deteriorate. You'll see what i mean when i finish writng the thread. Well I can't prove it the way you want me to, but something tells me I won't win you over anyway so that's pointless on my part lol but the best I can do for now is direct you to chp 98-100 where he has a deep conversation with Reiner where he forgives him for his hometown attack, rescinds his death threat, tells him he once saw everyone across the ocean as an enemy (end of season 3) but then realized they were people just like him. You really think he will be this down to earth and then become a genocidal maniac?

The reason I bring up my past conversations with people agreeing with me proves I know what I'm talking about. Admittingly that doesn't always mean that, but in my case,  I have only gone by the details, not what was spoon-fed us like Eren's declaration which was def a red herring, and I even won over people who thought I was in denial at first. Everything I just said, I brought that up to people who thought Eren is really a genocidal maniac and then they realized I got some strong points. Sorry I can't prove this to you, I really wish I could since you just consider it "headcannon", but I'd be careful with that claim, as I got a feeling you're only going by headcannon too, by just what feels good to you even if you're wrong.

All that said, we got confirmation that chp 129 is complete and releasing next month. We can continue this then, and I'll be looking forward to your theory. Please let me know when you made that thread. I really do want to read it.