Board Thread:Manga/@comment-27321453-20200408113657/@comment-44328804-20200607022038

Eden Ushinatta wrote: Attackcjc wrote: Ah, i see now. But, if this were the case, why would he push Mikasa and Armin away from him in such a manner? He even told Louise to throw Mikasa's scarf away. From what you've wrote it doesn't seem to me like you think that his endgame requires him getting sacrificed (i agree with you, Code Geass route is BS). If this was really what he wanted to do, there would be no need for him to cut ties with them. If his plan was just making Paradis and Marley talk, then all this drama was unnecessary.

Not to mention that the whole "talking" thing is Armin's character arc, not Eren's. It would be redundant for Isayama to give these 2 the same mindset and it would render their ideological arguments meaningless and cheap drama.

Also, it seems like you don't remember it, but Marley's treatment of Eldians is far better than that of other countries. Marley alone isn't the problem. Just a fraction of it. And Eren's actions up to now show how little self-restraint he has. He murdered innocents in Liberio and the Yeagerists did the same as well. To the rest of the world, the words of a mass-murderer who casually destroyed the walls and released the colossal titans, even if he was bluffing at the time, should mean nothing. Now that they know how real the threat of Paradis is, they would surely try to develop weapons to annihilate them all.

As such, genociding the entire world is the most effective way to eliminate the danger of the people of Paradis being wiped out from the face of the earth in a war against the world. Does it eliminate violence completely? No. It doesn't. Not at all. But does it matter? No. Because, in the end, as long as it's simply the paradisians who exist, even if a war were to break to out, it would only be between them. Which means that in the end paradisians will still be standing. Why he pushed them away is one of the many ques we still need answered from him. But from what I can tell, he wanted to push them into the right mindsets, as he wanted to free Mikasa from the slave bond (hence the scarf thing too), and he needed to snap Armin out of his pacificist mindset too, which was detrimental in this case in all honesty. On that note, look how Armin is pushing himself into a fighting attitude now. He might realize soon that just talking was never an option, and snap out of his pacifism, and then Eren might show to be more open to talks like he hopes. But all in all, he may had cut ties to keep them away from tough choices that they clearly wouldn't want to make.

I never forgot how Marley treated their eldians better, but they're also the ones pushing the propaganda against them, and THEN, they called for an unjust attack against the island and falsely called Eren a "rebel against peace". Not sure if you forgot that, but Eren wasn't the bad guy there, and his "lack of self-restraint" is an imaginary issue. What was he supposed to do? Sorry to say, but it sounds like you're bordering on another thing his unreasonable haters dwelled on: the imaginary argument of other options, which there weren't any, yet they go on saying they were and it was proven time and time again there wasn't AT ALL.

Eren's bluff with the rumbling can work, as he can prove that if he says he will "destroy the world" but then show the desire and restraint not to when he could've, that's an effective way to prove to the world that he isn't the devil. A show of force like that can work, and its the only way to really show the propaganda is false since they ate it up without considering it can be false. Even if he seemed he validated the threat at first, he didn't have a choice with how he was backed into a corner. So if he makes it look like its true only to show it isn't, that can be very persuasive.

Its ur call to believe what you think the best option is. You want to believe it is genocide? Go right ahead, I won't think anything bad of you lol but all the evidence really points to my theory more than yours. I'm not saying I will turn out right completely, as I haven't already, but most who heard my arguement realized I wasn't leaping at all, and the few who called me along the lines of a "delusional Eren fanboy" didn't necessarily have good arguments either. But either way, you were more reasonable than most who think along the same lines as you, so I have no issue you debating this with me for the sake of conversation. Here's hoping we can continue this soon next month (in a week or so) with the series HOPEFULLY returning after it went on hiatus this month, but I didn't hear anything yet about that but keeping my fingers crossed. Yeah, i do also hope that chapter 129 will be released in June, because it's already been too long.

Anyway, back to the topic, there is no such thing as an Ackerbond/slavebond whatever. This has already been disproven numerous times. Also your argument about Armin contradicts entirely your view of Eren. You say that Eren verbally and physically assaulted Armin, because he wanted to "break him out" of his "talking" mindset. Yet then you say that Eren's goal is to make Eldia and Marley talk. How does that make any sense to you?

How come Eren is not a rebel against peace? The dude can't live in peace. He couldn't live peacefully as a child, he can't live peacefully as an adult. When he was a kid he wanted to go outside the walls, slay titans and see the ocean. How is that peaceful? The dude was complaining about peace every day, he used to call the old days as "false peace". Joining the SC is anything but wanting peace. You know who wanted peace? Jean did. And Eren used to call him coward. Then Eren took part in an uprising to overthrow a monarchy that actually tried to preserve peace inside the walls. Well, the ones bound to the King's oath anyway, because the aristocrats only wanted to preserve their riches.

Post-timeskip, the "peaceful" Eren went ahead and killed civilians, got 8 SC members killed, because of his actions, then inspired a fucking fascist movement led by Hitler's son in law aka Floch, who now tries to kill his best friends, the ones he really wanted to protect. Let's also not forget another coup d'etat and breaking down all the walls, which in turned led to the deaths of many citizens that he supposedly wanted to protect and property damage. If Eren wanted to do what you say he wants, then the best action would have been to awaken noly the colossals sleeping inside Shiganshina, which had already been evacuated. It is known afterall that only the titans sleeping in Shiganshina are enough to destroy the world army. But, Eren released all of them.

And, be sure, i agree with you. I agree that he had no choice to do anything else. Especially in Liberio. Was he supposed to die? Of course not. I'm with you here. The difference between us is that i see things factually. You don't. Was Eren right or wrong to kill innocents? Who cares? It was necessary. But you can't present that as "peaceful". Of course he will be labelled as a "Rebel againt peach". And rightfully so.

Moving on to "Eren's bluff". If you think that such a retarded plan can work, then you haven't seen enough of reality. I understand that this is a work of fiction, so things like that might happen, but AoT tries to portray some things realistically. The only thing that this "bluff" shows is that Eren can threaten them and toy with their lives whenever he feels like it. He killed them in Liberio, he spares them now, he will kill them later when he wakes up the wrong way. That wouldn't be talk. That would be the entire world doing Eren's biding, until they can create weapons powerful enough to stop the Rumbling and fuck Paradis up, since it's an island filled with Eren-fanboys and fangirls. Not a single person in his/her right mind would ever trust a country led by a guy like Eren.

As for your so called "Evidence", well, you haven't provided any. You confuse evidence with "your logic". Sure it makes sense to you, but it's not supported by the story. And you would be very wrong to believe that the majority of the fandom agrees with your ideas. Personally, i think that you couldn't be more wrong in assessing Eren's goal. And i do in fact think that genocide is the only "Safe" solution. Does that mean that i want Eren to succeed? Fuck no. I want him to be defeated by Mikasa. And then i want him to get eaten by Gabi. Because i like this development better, because it improves the story. And i will prove that in a separate thread of mine. Using actual evidence. Wait until then. I'm not completely won over yet, but I do get your theory a little better now. While I still don't agree on where you think the details point to this  story going, it neverthless sounds good. But just to clarify a couple of things solidly, since most of our disagreements are based on our "headcannons":

1) I didn't read or watch that movie, but I did understand it was about good people turning bad based on their circumstances, NOT how they were born. I understand why you're comparing this to Eren, but I think Isayama was only comparing it to his series on the sense that "right and wrong" can be subjective based on the circumstances.  Eren felt he was born to fight for freedom, while the serial killer didn't start out that way, and instead he was molded by inhumane treatment that earns him commismeration.  The main point of Himmeanole, as well as what Isayama is doing recently, is that "good and bad" aren't cut-and-dry topics.

2) I know what's going on in the world, and you made a pretty unfair comparison between our world and the series. The racism in AOT is widely problematic, gave rise to the Eldian restorationists, and led to propaganda against Eldians.  The "peace" you described was already pursued in the story too. Look back at Willy Tybur's speech.  Needless to say it didn't pan out.  It goes back to what I told you before too: the final panel, even if you worked it into your theory, can't concide with racism still happening as it will prolong the conflict.

Other than these 2, any other agreements we had are based on "headcannon" and we both seemingly have reason to think that about the other, even if we both know that isn't the case, just cuz we have different theories. Truth is, this story is still ongoing with atleast 7 chps left, as Isayama himself verified there's "about 5%" left, which means we got a little over 5% remaining. Alot can still happen, including new developmetns with what we feel has been set in stone, like the PATHS stuff for instance (your response there wasn't completely definitive).

Let's just wait it out and see if Isayama suprises us.