Board Thread:Manga/@comment-39295103-20190704080517/@comment-25933225-20190708194032

Penguinluver1431 wrote: Soooooo valuing freedom and hating Nazis is "trolling" these days? Gotcha.

On a serious note, as someone with Jewish in-laws, some of whom come from actual Holocaust survivors, I have no obligation or desire to defend Nazis, nor are you obligated to a college paper on why I don't have any empathy for any of them, real or fictional. You want to know why everything Marley arc and beyond rubs me the wrong way? Because in every other media form I enjoy[ed], they all portrayed Nazis exactly as they are; pure fucking evil. Meanwhile, AoT fandom (or at least a good chunk of it) is "oooooh boooohoooooo some emo genocidal jocks have tragic backstories and Eldia started it first so we should just give Marley a pass!". Maybe you're confused about this in the era of Trump, but portraying Nazis in the slightest of positive lights is NOT cool, nor does it equal good storytelling. MAYBE it's just a manga/anime/Japanese thing to think people are inherently good, but here in the West, sometimes people aren't as complex as other people like to brag. Sometimes people are just EVIL without rhyme or reason.

So no, I don't need to defend my anti-Marley position to you. Get over it. You don't need to defend your anti-Marley position because you can't. As I said, you're living in a manicheism world where people are evil or good, and... Surprise, that's what toddler think, but when you're a grown up adult, you understand that "good" or "bad" don't exist, and so, you can't objectively say that someone is "evil", because that makes no sense in regard of History or Science. And surprise! Marley are not Nazis, that might surprise you, but when you have an inspiration, that doesn't make it identic as the original. And you totally forgot what I said about Marley being as close to Nazis as they are to the USA. And I never "gave Marley a pass". I just understand how things came up with the current situation, and I understand that this has nothing to do with "evil", but with political reasons, the heritage of History, human nature (it's not surprizing to see a country that has been curshed by another take revenge when given the opportunity). "they all portrayed Nazis exactly as they are; pure fucking evil". Wow. How pathetic that part was. No, that's a POV, I don't know how many times we've told you that, but THAT is an opinion, and you CAN'T put this as a fact. You hate Nazis, I don't like them either, tho I'm not stupid enough to consider such a stupid things like "They're pure fucking evil" as a fact. You're totally using the words of feelings: "pure fucking evil". That part is purely about feelings. NOT A FACT. Stop with this. And your hate makes you forget about the fact that manicheism, is nothing but a human concept. You know what? People that have a feeling as strong as hate and put it as a fact are pretty autoritary... Mmmmh... That reminds me of someone that totally hated a category of people, and putted it as a fact... Oh, yes, that's Hitler. He hated Jews and to justifiy his feelings towards them, he used propaganda to consider his feelings towards them as a fact. Yes, you're totally acting like Hitler, without all the political power. How does it feel to use the exact same methods a Hitler to justify your hate? How does it feel to use a feeling as a fact, just like Hitler did? I hate Nazis too, but if I was to make a text about "Why the Nazi ideology is bad" I would use objective arguments, and not my feelings. And also, please make a difference between the Germans living under the Third Reich and Nazis Ideology. You can"t consider those Germans as evils because they happened to live here when awfull ideologies appeared. Same for Marley, you need to make a difference between Marley's ideology and people that live here.

If you grew up in Marley, you'd've been the same as most of people in this country, because you grew up with Eldians in camps, it would just be normal to you. So, stop being an hypocrit about evil because in other circumstances, you'd be considered by "evil" by puerile kids that can't understand that manicheism makes no sense, even if from your point of view you're just having a normal life.

It's only natural to hate people, consider them as evil, but feelings shouldn't be considered as relevant when we're talking about something that requires an objective point of view. Here, "Marley or Eldia, who's the worse?" requires to take in acount most of parameters as possible, as I tried to make with my first two messages on this topic. You, you don't have any argument and you're being a puerile brat that acts only through his feelings (and seriously, you're so puerile that you can't have an objctive opinion about a FICTIONNAL country???). If you tried to use arguments, you would totally forgot what Eldia has done and just give the "bad" facts about Marley, without even thinking about the "How did this situation ended up like this?", because that's the most important thing to consider before judging something.

I never defended Nazis (and Marley ARE NOT nazis, they've got similarities but they're not as extreme, and Marley has as much similarities with the US) I enver defend Marley's policy towards Eldians or other countries. I don't like them, however, unlike you, I'm able to use my brain, and I'm not offended when someone tries to tell a story about Nazis and try to show how did they happen to end up like this. You're overgeneralizing things, and making a generalization can only lead to be wrong in a statement. I suppose that you forgot that Nazis are not all Hitler, but most of them were people that grew up in this state of mind, living through propaganda every day, being forced to do it or you're executed. Of course, many of them might have liked to kill, etc, there are always been killers in human history... But a big part of them too found that awfull. You can't generalizing because there are always people that won't fit your description. If you lived in Germany during this period, you'd probably have been the same as them. Forced to do awfull acts because of a political leader that has extreme ideas.

You're probably totally unable to demonstrate empathy, totally unable to project yourself in another life, you probably can't imagine yourself in a different situation. And you might answer "I cAn, bUt NazIS ARe evILS", because you're acting like a spoiled brat that has nothing to say except a feeling towards them, and you categorically don't want to try that: "If I grew up in a country like Germany during the 30s/40s, how would I have been?". I never defended what Nazis made, but I'm mature enough to ask myself "If I grew up there, how would I have been?". Even the people I hate the most in the world, I could try to take things from their point of view to understand how they ended up like this. That doesn't mean I don't hate them anymore, that doesn't mean I'm trying do defend their acts, faaaaaar from it. I'm just trying to understand people, and I know that manicheism only exists in child stories and Game of Thrones seasons 7 and 8, and I have an objective POV on things.

You don't want to be objective about human History, you don't want to be objective about Marley, you just want to act through feelings. I totally understand that people wants to act only through feelings, in everything or about a particular subject. That's your right, but then, do not try to answer something that requires an objective POV or don't give your opinion if it's just "I don't like them", without arguments. You're on a topic that requires objective arguments, feelings are not asked here. If you can't be objective, then you're not asked here. When the topic "Who do you prefer between Marley and Eldia?" will be here, then here, you're free to say "They're evils", because that's a topic that requires feelings, not an objective POV.