Talk:Bertolt Hoover

Request to split article
I Am somebody who only watches the AoT anime, and after finishing the available episodes, as per usual, I decided to read the character descriptions that I may have missed. I went through the general characters: Eren, Mikasa, Sasha, etc. I was satisfied with those characters' pages becasue they kept the anime and manga knowledge generally separate, while the less separated sections, which could be identified by their manga scans, I averted with my eyes. Navigating via links, I head to the page of the colosal and armored titans. To my shock and horror, the pages redirect to the Garrison crew, groundbreaking information which is meant to be unavailable to anime fans. To prevent unintentional spoilers like this in the future, can this page, along with the Armored Titan page be split so the titans forms and the human forms have respective pages, with explicit spoiler tags? Thank you. Porp1 (talk) 21:55, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, same with the armored titan, the female titan and the dancing titan.

- Unsigned person???

Seems this comes up from time to time, and my understanding is that the moderates already decided that you enter at your own risk with the main page warning of major spoilers ahead. So I don't think anyone is going to be doing that any time soon, sorry.

--Harostar (talk) 08:08, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Spellings
Please do NOT use translated spellings as "Bertolt Hoover" on this wiki. The official and accepted spelling is "Bertholdt Fubar". I don't know what you did but I can't rename the page, its up to you to fix it. Chris (talk) 17:02, July 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * What source do you have to says that "Bertholdt Fubar" is the official spelling? The manga spells his name "Bertolt Hoover", so this is the officail spelling.Jjoss (talk) 21:00, July 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Fixed. It couldn't be renamed because 'Bertholdt Fubar' still existed as a redirect so I just swapped the pages... 17:06, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

@Jjoss I don't have my own source, but I know the Japanese versions refer to him as Bertholdt Fubar, and the English manga translations took to "Fuber" or "Hoover" so as not to coincide with the American military acronym F.U.B.A.R., which if you don't know, stands for "Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition/Repair". Chris (talk) 23:05, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Bertolt Hoover is the official, correct spelling. Cryssie (talk) 23:38, July 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * You can take that up with the admins if you like. Chris (talk) 02:06, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * That depends on what you consider 'official'. I believe that until it's proven that Isayama himself spelled it like that, it will be just 'another translation' even if it's done by Kodansha. 09:06, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

I opened the image file for his profile on the Japanese anime site and the file name is "Berutolt." If Kodansha and the anime's website spell it like that, then it's probably Bertolt. I haven't seen where it's been spelled Bertholdt aside from blogging sites. Both names are real names, but Bertolt seems to be more common. Also, TV Tropes says Bertolt Hoover is official, but they don't have any sources listed. I'm not trying to argue; I'm just sharing what I've found. Cryssie (talk) 02:21, July 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * The anime file for Levi spelled his name as 'Rivai' so I wouldn't count on these names being valid at all. 17:42, July 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I couldn't care less about official names, but looking up various spellings, the name "Bertholdt" doesn't even exist nor are the excessive consonants even necessary to translate his name. Why translators even decided to come up with that spelling is beyond me (probably to look fancy by adding as many consonants to sound legit). There's only two ways such a name could be spelled and it's either "Bertolt", the English variation, or the original version "Berthold". Given that the Japanese Romaji uses "Berutoruto", I suggest using Bertolt for simplicity's sake. As for the much-loved last name (hah!), "Fubar" is becoming even more dubious when you consider how they just stretched the romaji to get the "F" sound and how it doesn't even exist as a name. While Kodansha has already used "Hoover", if you actually check where the name originates, it comes from the GERMAN name "Huber". Sound familiar? Let me direct you to this photo. That's right, "Bertolt Huber". Considering how SNK loves referencing German names this actually seems like the most likely one (unless Isayama prefers the American version of "Hoover"  somehow like Eren Yeager over Eren Jaeger). In that regard, I'd like to at least suggest the name be changed to either "Bertolt Hoover" (American), or "Bertolt Huber" (German). We can have a vote between these or whatever, but honestly at this point, "Bertholdt Fubar" seems like a really forced translation by the scanlators just to sound legit to the point where they just added random consonants for no reason at all beyond wanting to sound cool.DementedP (talk) 02:47, September 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree. From all the possible translations I've seen so far Huber makes the most sense. NoNickNeeded (talk) 08:48, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Are we waiting for the BD translations? Speaking of which, these BD translations I assume would be the Funimation-licensed ones or what? Otherwise, needless to say I vote for "Bertolt Huber" due to it being an actual German name and the simople fact that it fits the romaji better than "Bertholdt Fubar". EDIT- *ahem* Anyone? --DementedP (talk) 11:19, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Being German, I am of course biased about this, but I agree about Bertolt Huber. That picture is also not the only one, as there are some for all of the trainees.... Anyway, maybe Miskos got tired of this whole "name war". Why didn't the new guidebook include the correct romaji spelling of the names? Would save people so many troubles. NeoSuperior (talk) 19:54, September 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * So uh, can other people chime in on what they think about this? DementedP (talk) 10:11, September 22, 2013 (UTC)

From everything I have seen, these are official merchandise being released in Japan. In them, his name is spelled the same way Kodansha's English release spells it: "Bertolt Hoover". Thoughts?

http://indulging-inaccuracy.tumblr.com/post/59061674661/attack-on-titan-aluminim-dog-tags-maker-contents

--Harostar (talk) 10:15, September 22, 2013 (UTC)

Hm, well I'm sure they got it directly from Kodansha... that, or Kodansha got it from them. The latter is unlikely, because when I asked on their tumblr about 'Yeager', I was told it was the former editor's decision, in other words, they come up with their name romanizations on their own. I don't exactly mind the change to either German or American translation, although we decided to wait for the BDs. Erwin was an exception as Irvin seemed to be completely incorrect. So yea, I dunno. Lol, I didn't help much, did I? 10:19, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess the problem is that a lot of others view Kodansha's spellings as official already and create everything based on that. But we still don't know how "official" they actually are, or if it was some editor's decision there as well. NeoSuperior (talk) 14:13, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * "Berthold Huber" (German), "Bertolt Huber" (American-German), or "Bertolt Hoover" (American), I don't care which one, but I honestly urge for the admins to change this guy's name as he's truly the only one I reall feel bad for in regards to the work done by the scanlators. --DementedP (talk) 13:03, October 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * We'll have to see, but until somebody walks up to Isayama and asks him how it's spelled, we're on the fence and it likely won't be changed. What I urge is for someone to actually do that, maybe instead of trying to look through every fucking scan and translation there is. Chris (talk) 15:36, October 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, Kodansha USA has recently claimed on their tumblr that their character name romanizations are official, approved by Isayama himself. I guess this is backed up by the fact that Japanese merchandise contains these spellings. So we'll most likely end up using the Kodansha romanizations. 19:09, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Trivia
He is the only Titan Shifter so far to be shown willingly eating a human. (Annie spit out her victims, while Ymir ate Berik while in a mindless state.)

Huh? I'm sorry but can someone elaborate when he ate someone willingly and for the sake of eating? Because the soldier he swallowed was only because he could get the 3DMG if that's what you mean.188.62.91.204 19:11, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, I suppose you're right, this shouldn't be there 19:13, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

As the person who added that, I'm going to first and foremost point out that it says nothing about eating for the sake of eating. On the other hand, I do think it's an interesting tidbit, as it further illustrates how he's portrayed differently from the other Shifters in the story. We now know that Ymir did not eat anyone willingly, and she even spits after taking a chunk out of another Titan. Annie kills people by biting, but also immediately spits them out. On the other hand, Bertoldt is the only sentient and fully-in-control Titan so far in the series that has actually eaten someone. Even if his primary goal was stealing from the corpse later, it's an interesting little tidbit in that it's not something we've seen the Ape Titan or any of the other Shifters even attempt.

--Harostar (talk) 19:27, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

I think it became too long now, how about this?:


 * He is the only Titan Shifter so far to be shown willingly eating a human as he did so in order to obtain the victim's Three Dimensional Maneuver Gear.

I've also removed the fact about Annie and Ymir as the first sentence itself is enough to make it obvious that nor Annie neither Ymir willingly ate someone and since this is Berholdt's article, details about other characters are not necessary in this case, in my opinion. ;o 19:37, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

You're awesome, Miskos. I think that looks much better! Thanks.

--Harostar (talk) 19:40, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, glad to be of help 19:44, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Chapter 49
PROBABLY A HUGE SPOILER, SO DON'T CONTINUE IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT.

I just read a chinese leak of Chapter 49 (and I didn't understand anything lol), so anybody who can read chinese may tell me what happened to him in the end? We see Irvin cut him in two and Bertholdt most probably died. However, like 2 pages away, we see a huge explosion and all Titans go flying away... So, is Berthold dead or he transformed into the Colossal Titan in the end?  h fc 2 X  19:27, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Neither. The raw scans are out on Mangabird at the moment. Bertholdt receives a relatively minor wound when Irvin attacks him, which frees Eren. We then see him hanging by his gear, with steaming chest and looking shocked as everyone rides away. The chapter ends with Reiner freaking out, and throwing Titans to block the escape of the soldiers.

So Reiner and Bertholdt are alive, at least until next month. The most significant event for him this chapter was flipping out at Armin after he lied and stated that Annie was currently being tortured and experimented on.

--Harostar (talk) 20:07, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Walls or Gates?
There is one thing that bothers me about the article: "[...]capable of damaging and tearing down the Walls[...]". Isn't this false? I am quite sure that none of the shifters did any damage to the walls. I think the only thing they destroyed and were capable of destroying, are the gates. NeoSuperior (talk) 13:38, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Good point. After all, that's why some people wanted to get rid of gates after the Shiganshina and Trost ones fell, as then the Titans wouldn't be able to advance anymore. 13:44, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

about Reiner and Bertolt mission
In the beggining of the page it says " He comes from a mysterious homeland outside the  Walls, and was on a mission with Reiner to breach the Walls and infiltrate the military in search of something that Reiner refers to as the "Coordinate".", that's true that their mission was to, so that page:  http://www.onemanga.me/Attack_on_Titan/42/14/ tell it. But that their mission was exactly to search of the "Coordinate", maybe true but I don't think, becouse in http://www.onemanga.me/Attack_on_Titan/50/41/ this page Reiner is really surprised that Eren possess "the coordinate". Or please show me the content where it reveals.

I would just write only that in the article " He comes from a mysterious homeland outside the  Walls, and was on a mission with Reiner to breach the Walls. "  or  " He comes from a mysterious homeland outside the  Walls , and was on a mission with Reiner to breach the Walls and infiltrate the military in search of other persons  that possesses the ability to  transform into a Titan.  "   Aa krei (talk) 01:10, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

What are you trying to say here? It's never specified if he knows what the Coordinate is exactly and if it's even a person. I don't see what being more specific will bring here. Gurgatory (talk) 01:35, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it's never specified (( but I think he knows it but that isn't what I wanted to say )).

I wanted to say that Bertholt (and the other two) mission is not obvious that it was to "   breach the Walls and infiltrate the military in search of something that Reiner refers to as the "Coordinate"". We only know that they breached the walls, and then chase eren and ymir after they learn they are "titans" too. I don't think there mission was to search of that coordinate stuff. Aa krei (talk) 03:05, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

Ok now I get it from where comes that conclusion. So I would write in the page sg. like this:  " He comes from a mysterious homeland outside the  Walls, and was on a mission with Reiner to breach the Walls and infiltrate the military in search of other persons who   possesses the ability to  transform into a Titan, becouse among these persons should be one who possess something that Reiner refers to as the "Coordinate" and it seems they want it so badly.  " I was just surprised it was written in that literal, explicit way like it's an obvious fact. Aa krei (talk) 04:00, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

Now I get it! I understand now. I just personally don't know how to explain it that well and if it even belongs there like that, so I suggest maybe talking to one of the admins for advice or just go ahead and edit the page to your liking, though if someone notices something wrong with it, be wary it may be tampered or even removed. Gurgatory (talk) 04:09, June 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Honestly, it is pretty explicit that what they are looking for is the Coordinate. Reiner and Bertolt discuss it extensively in Chapter 47, and we have zero evidence that the Coordinate must belong to a Titan Shifter. They nabbed Eren and Ymir as the best leads they possessed, but explicitly discuss that if Eren doesn't have it then Historia will be their best lead. As such, it isn't accurate to say they are looking for Titan Shifters since we don't know if that was part of their mission or simply the best lead they had looking for a needle in a haystack. --Harostar (talk) 04:14, June 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Here we go, here's pretty concrete evidence. It's from Chapter 47, pages 5 - 6.


 * Reiner: I have more reasons for wanting to bring Krista with us than just her being cute. Did you forget? Annie tailed those guys who were loitering around the training grounds to see what they were up to. Those guys that were observing Krista from the Church of the Wall, the ones that know about what's inside the Walls. Krista is someone very important from a Church of the Wall family. In other words, if the "Coordinate" we're looking for isn't Eren himself, then our mission won't be over yet. If that happens and we have Krista, it should make the search much easier than it is now.


 * That's pretty explicit that they need the Coordinate, but don't know how to find it. So they grabbed the first unusual thing they found, which was Eren. --Harostar (talk) 04:28, June 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ohh, thank you Harostar, it was totally missing for me. I thought that coordinate stuff appears the first time in chapter 50, it seems I didn't read chapter 47 enough attentively, indeed. Then for the likes of me, maybe a reference would be helpful near to the mission word in the pages of Reiner, Bertholt and Annie. Thanks again :) Aa krei (talk) 05:14, June 28, 2014 (UTC)