Thank you for your recent contributions to the Annie and Hitch pages to keep them updated to the events of the latest chapter. There were some details about them that I'd like to point out so they can serve as feedback for future contributions:
Some edits contained more information than necessary. As example, these twoedits in the characters' Relationships sections. This section is meant to be a general explanation of how two characters relate to each other, not a chronological narration of their encounters. Describing how their recent interaction ocurred is not as relevant as just mentioning how (if) this influenced their relationship.
Let's try to keep paragraphs under 10 lines long, anything longer gives the appearance of a "wall of text".
Please use only images from the original Japanese raws or the official translation by Kodansha Comics, not from scanlations or leaks.
It is preferable that images are single panels. Multi-panels are only used when necessary.
Contractions are avoided; example, we use "did not" instead of "didn't".
Hi, thanks for the informations. I'll try to remember it. Also, I don't want to pay for reading SNK, so do you know if it's possible to have the original Japanese raws or the official translation by Kodansha Comics for free?
By "count" in my last edit comment, I meant "include."
In Chapter 51 Jean says "It was probably too much for those inexperienced MPs. I'm sorry, but most of them got eaten on the way." This means that very few of them were still alive by the time the soldiers got to Reiner. Unless you can find an MP death on panel, it's unlikely that Reiner indirectly killed any of them by throwing Titans at the fleeing soldiers.
The vast majority of deaths in that operation were by Titans that Erwin led the soldiers into, and that was Erwin's decision. Reiner likely squished a few Survey Corps with the Titan-tossing (I don't have the time to look up right now), and those could be cited and added to the page, but most soldiers died to Titans as part of Erwin's gamble to recover Eren. Reiner had no control over that, so it would be a stretch to consider him responsible for any eaten by Titan deaths in that operation.
Yes, I agree that Erwin's military tactics are fanatic and very dangerous ones for the safety of his own men and that he is even sometimes very cynical. I think that he has some responsibility for the 60 Survey Corps members and MPs deaths which occured during Clash of Titans Arc. So, I propose to mention a reference about that on his page in "people killed". Do you agree?
Also, it seems to me that Erwin had legitimate military concerns to get back Eren Yaeger. I mean: Erwin Smith needed Eren Yaeger to plug another possible hole if for example Bertolt created later a new one. If Erwin cannot plug holes, then there would be many civilians and military Waldians who would be eaten by Titans later because I don't think that the Warriors would stop to attack the Walls. Thus, someone has to take responsability for all the deaths who occured before Bertolt let Eren to escape and I personnaly don't put all the blame on Erwin Smith for all those deaths. Furthermore, if Reiner and Bertolt hadn't kidnaped Eren, there would have been 0 Survey Corps members and MPs deaths, so I think that Reiner has some responsability too.
Also, concerning the Survey Corps members who were killed after Reiner tossed Titans on Eren, I saw one on chapter 50 page 16 and another one on chapter 50 page 22. Thus, I can mention "At least 2 Survey Corps members" in "indirectly killed" if you agree. Also, can I mention Armin Arlert in "failed attempt", since Armin would have died in chapter 50 page 22 if Eren hadn't used the Coordinate?
Also, I don't understand why, on one hand Reiner is considered to have 0% responsability for all the deaths who occured before Bertolt lets Eren to escape, and on the other hand Annie Leonhardt is considered to have 100% responsability for all the 16 Survey Corps members that she killed during the Female Titan Arc, you can see it on her page in "people killed". It seems to me that there is incoherence. I mean: I know that she directly killed those 16 soldiers, and that Reiner never directly killed a soldier during Clash of Titan Arc. But Erwin and Levi also used dangerous and very cynical tactics during the Female Titan Arc. They deliberately didn't say to most of their own men that the Female Titan wasn't an ordinary Titan. As Eren said in chapter 27 page 14, "there had to be some who wouldn't have died if they'd known that the (Female) Titan was intelligent...".
Also, I propose to mention a reference about what Eren said above on Erwin Smith and Levi 's pages in "people killed". Do you agree?
I don't speak solely for the staff here, but personally I would not object to saying Erwin is indirectly responsible for the death of his soldiers in the Clash of the Titans arc while rescuing Eren. It was a pretty dangerous strategy that was guaranteed to lose soldiers.
The reason we don't want to tie so many tangental deaths to Reiner is because there needs to be a point where responsibility ends. If Grisha never came to the Walls the Reiss family would still be alive. If Marcel hadn't influenced the military's opinion, Reiner never would have made it to the island. We don't want to get to the point where every death in the series is listed under Ymir Fritz and the Earth Devil because they started the whole thing.
This keeps the lists of people killed a reasonable size and one that the casual visitor can understand.
In the case of the people who died without being squashed under thrown Titans, the direct death is from a Titan, the next degree of responsibility is Erwin for putting the soldier in the Titan's path, then after that you could say it's Reiner's for putting Erwin in the position where the rescue was needed, but that's two degrees of separation. That's why I don't consider Reiner to be responsible for those deaths. He's too far removed.
You can go ahead and list the two people who were killed by thrown Titans. That's fine. I would not include Armin because, again, he's only in that position because of Erwin's strategy, which Reiner had no control over. He's two degrees off the potential cause of death.
You actually explain yourself exactly why we're not assigning responsibility to Reiner while Annie has full responsibility. Annie directly kills soldiers in the Female Titan arc. Reiner does not kill any (except as collateral damage) in the Clash of the Titans arc.
I agree some of the Survey Corps deaths in the Female Titan arc were probably avoidable. I can see a case for blaming Erwin. (Note that others on the wiki might not agree.) I don't agree with blaming Levi though, because it was Erwin's plan. Levi was just following orders.
I have thought about what you said. I have counted now 4 Survey Corps members eaten by Titans after Bertolt let Eren to escape. You can see one in 50 page 16, two on chapter 50 page 22 and one in chapter 50 page 24. I personnaly think that those 4 Survey Corps deaths are collateral damage, since Reiner didn't want to kill them and was only interested in Eren being eaten. However, there doesn't exist a category "collateral damage" on this wiki. Also, the civilians that Annie killed by falling into the Church in chapter 33 page 6-8 were collateral damage, however, they are classified as "indirectly killed" in her page. Thus, I will mention "At least 4 Survey Corps members" in "indirectly killed" with the references in Reiner's page if you agree.
Also, I think that Erwin is accountable for all the 60 Survey Corps deaths on his page and I will mention it on his "Talk" page. I will also ask to put a reference about what Eren said about Erwin's tactics during the Female Titan's arc. I will see what others on this wiki will say.
Also, I agree with you about Levi, I won't blame Levi since he was forced in the first place by Erwin to become a Survey Corps member (It was mentionned in the OVA "No regrets".).
Regarding your concerns about your recent Annie Leonhart edits, please consult the wiki's Manual of Style, particular the words "Quantity does not mean quality, and not every detail is important."
The character pages are not intended to list every single detail of a character's life. They also should not include sections regarding the motivations and feelings of other characters. What Eren is thinking is not of any revelence to Annie unless she specific changes her behavior because of it, which in this case she doesn't.
No problem, I got it. I won't make more change about the underground and the church scenes.
Also, in fact, we don't know what she's thinking about Eren and I only mentionned that she was waiting for Eren to get out from the undergound during a long time, which furthermore proves her motivation to catch him since the Survey corps can intervene during this time against her.
We know she was waiting, but it doesn't affect the plot, which is why it wasn't necessary to mention that she was. The Story section is intended to be a summary of events so readers know the major details in case they don't know or have forgotten what happened.
If someone asked you what Annie did in that chapter, you probably wouldn't tell them that she waited around for Eren to come out. :) You would mention that she was stomping into the underground tunnel and then fought Eren when he came out.
Before continue editing, please take a moment to read our Manual of Style, it is the guide that explains the way we work on here. Be aware that your edits will be reverted if they do not follow those guidelines.
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