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  • So I think a battle between Paradis and Marley is inevitable I'm curious to see how Reiner and Zeke will be killed, as I think they most likley will be, and I think I have a very satisfying way for them to get killed. 

    Annie Leonhart character image

    I think it'd be great if Annie redeemed and if she and Armin killed Reiner.

    Reiner: I think Reiner should be killed in a team up between Armin and Annie (freed from the crystal and redeeming herself by helping the Survey Corps) where Annie and Reiner fight in an epic Female Titan vs Armored Titan showdown which ends with either Armin literally squashing Reiner under his Collosal Titan's foot while Annie has him distracted, or with Armin holding Reiner down while Annie tears Reiner out of his Titan forms nape and killing him. I know Reiner is basically Eren's archenemy but I think her dying at Annie and Armin's hands would be better as the Armored, Collosal and Female Titans were the ones who started the conflicted, so having the Armored Titan being killed by the Female and Collosal Titans would be poetic. It'd give Annie a chance to redeem and give Armin some more growth, pun intended. 


    File:Levi character image anime.png
    Zeke: I think Zeke should be killed in a team up between Eren and Levi where the Yeager siblings fight in an epic Attack Titan vs Beast Titan showdown which ends with Levi cutting Zeke out of his Titan form while Eren has him distracted and killing him. While this series doesn't really have main antagonists as even Bertholdt was a tragic character despite being the Collosal Titan, I do consider Zeke to be the closest thing to the series main antagonist so it'd make sense if he met his end at the hands of the series main protagonist and the series fan favorite character. 

    So this is how I think Reiner and Zeke should be killed eventually in the series. What ydo you think?

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    • I m thinking that Reiner will die while doing something good for Walldians. His death is certain so at least he could help Walldians in some way against Marley and atone a little bit for crimes he committed against his people. 

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    • I don't think Reiner will be killed in a Titan face-off with anyone from the 104th.  He might still die, but I think it's more likely to happen at the hands of a third party than in a grudge match.

      Narratively there's just no reason for the 104th to get in a fight with Reiner's Armored Titan again.  We already had the rematch in Shinganshina.  We already know what Reiner's capabilities are.  There aren't any surprises left in his toolbox.

      (Side note: Why does only Annie get a chance to redeem herself but not Reiner?  It's not like he did anything worse.)

      Zeke, on the other hand, I would like to die to Levi because it would be fulfilling a promise.  Levi caught him by surprise the first time, so a rematch could be interesting because we don't know how well the fight would go if Zeke is prepared.  Reiner and Bertholdt certainly thought that Zeke would fare better against Levi, and they knew what Levi was capable of.

      I wouldn't particularly care whether or not Eren's involved though.  He doesn't seem to have any grudge against Zeke, but we know Levi does, so Levi defeating Zeke matters more.

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    • Personally, I think it would be great to see Conny take down Zeke, seeing as he basically killed his entire family and village. He is really an underdog and hasn't shown much capability of taking down titans so far, but I feel it would be some poetic justice.

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    • The Annie factor will only come true if they actually manage to get her out of her slumber. Reiner dying would be nice to finally see but I don't expect it as of right now. Zeke vs Levi round 2 would be great to see. But what I really want to see is Eren and Armin having a reveal similar to Reiner and Bertolt back when revealed themselves. I will speak more when chapter 94 discussion begins.

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    • Honestly at this point I'm hoping to see Zeke and Reiner team up with the Walldians.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:
      Honestly at this point I'm hoping to see Zeke and Reiner team up with the Walldians.

      I don't see that myself. Zeke was corrupted from an early age to believe Eldians were evil and he even sold out his own parents and is the indirect catacylst of most of the series main events, plus he killed Ewrin, Mike, Marlowe and so many Survey Corps members and he even left Bertholdt behind to die. Reiner destroyed Wall Maria which led to so many thousands dyng and despite having some grief from his actions via his split-personality disorder his "Warrior" personality seems to outweigh his "Soldier" personality. That's why I think Annie should redeem ebcause she doesn't seem that devoted to Marley's cause but just wants to go back home to her father, who no doubt forced her into all this crap. She also does appear remorseful of her actions and despite killing Petra and Marco, crying whilst doing so, she hasn't killed anywhere near as many as Reiner and Zeke have. 

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    • That first one would be horrible.....Reiner being killed as an evil villain by his own childhood comrade just for the sake of a personal Annie/Armin shiptease fanservice? Nah. I never liked how people are so forgiving and loving towards Annie and treat Reiner like a monster.

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    • RandomDudeDude wrote:
      That first one would be horrible.....Reiner being killed as an evil villain by his own childhood comrade just for the sake of a personal Annie/Armin shiptease fanservice? Nah. I never liked how people are so forgiving and loving towards Annie and treat Reiner like a monster.

      While I admit I am an Armin/Annie shipper that's not why I think they should kill him. It's because the series started with the Collosal, Armored and Female Titans as the villains so it'd be poetic if the Female and Collosal Titans took down the Armored Titan, it ends where it began and all that. It's not like it'd just be "Annie kills Reiner end of story". I imagine if this happened emotions would run high and they may try to reason with each other, but ultimatley if they're on opposite sides they have to treat each other as enemies. 

      People are so forgiving towards Annie because she's done more to earn a chance at redemption than Reiner has. He destroyed Wall Maria killed thousands and is devoted to Marley's cause and believes the Paradis-Eldians are "earth devils". Reiner is emotionally damaged true with split-personality but his "Warrior" persona seems to outweigh his "Soldier" persona, and he doesn't appear to be remorseful for the lives he's taken but just damaged at how many he's taken. Annie has killed several dozen including Petra and Marco, but she appears more remorseful of her misdeeds and doesn't appear that devoted to Marley's cause compared to Reiner. She's also done more to indicate she became more sincere towards Paradis as she saved Connie and Jean, hesitated to kill Armin several times, trained Eren, helped Marlowe and was in tears when she left Marco to die, which Reiner forced her to do. 

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    • I don't think Reiner will fight in Paradise anymore....

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    • And clearly, Reiner does not think that Paradis Eldians are Devils, if you read chapter 94. He looks so done and far conflicted. Sure, Annie is remorseful as well, but she still had no problem into killing people in many creative ways.

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    • I don't think that Reiner will be killed by Paradis people, but rather by Falco, or maybe Gabi, when one of them inherit the armored power. This would be the most logical way.

      A more beautifull way would be that Reiner's soldier persona takes over the warrior persona, then he tries to go back to Paradis, to reedems himself, but get caught and executed while trying, or succed in reaching Paradis Island. He would trie to convince them that he is no evil, only to get stabbed in the back, and thus die.

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    • Eobard95 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      That first one would be horrible.....Reiner being killed as an evil villain by his own childhood comrade just for the sake of a personal Annie/Armin shiptease fanservice? Nah. I never liked how people are so forgiving and loving towards Annie and treat Reiner like a monster.
      While I admit I am an Armin/Annie shipper that's not why I think they should kill him. It's because the series started with the Collosal, Armored and Female Titans as the villains so it'd be poetic if the Female and Collosal Titans took down the Armored Titan, it ends where it began and all that. It's not like it'd just be "Annie kills Reiner end of story". I imagine if this happened emotions would run high and they may try to reason with each other, but ultimatley if they're on opposite sides they have to treat each other as enemies. 

      People are so forgiving towards Annie because she's done more to earn a chance at redemption than Reiner has. He destroyed Wall Maria killed thousands and is devoted to Marley's cause and believes the Paradis-Eldians are "earth devils". Reiner is emotionally damaged true with split-personality but his "Warrior" persona seems to outweigh his "Soldier" persona, and he doesn't appear to be remorseful for the lives he's taken but just damaged at how many he's taken. Annie has killed several dozen including Petra and Marco, but she appears more remorseful of her misdeeds and doesn't appear that devoted to Marley's cause compared to Reiner. She's also done more to indicate she became more sincere towards Paradis as she saved Connie and Jean, hesitated to kill Armin several times, trained Eren, helped Marlowe and was in tears when she left Marco to die, which Reiner forced her to do. 

      Reiner did much more for paradis than Annie, he really believed he was a soldier, helping everyone. Annie was just an ant social who did literaly nothing for nobody. And the way Annie killed her victims in the forest were cooler, she even got to play with their bodies. 

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    • Orionhamake wrote:
      Eobard95 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      That first one would be horrible.....Reiner being killed as an evil villain by his own childhood comrade just for the sake of a personal Annie/Armin shiptease fanservice? Nah. I never liked how people are so forgiving and loving towards Annie and treat Reiner like a monster.
      While I admit I am an Armin/Annie shipper that's not why I think they should kill him. It's because the series started with the Collosal, Armored and Female Titans as the villains so it'd be poetic if the Female and Collosal Titans took down the Armored Titan, it ends where it began and all that. It's not like it'd just be "Annie kills Reiner end of story". I imagine if this happened emotions would run high and they may try to reason with each other, but ultimatley if they're on opposite sides they have to treat each other as enemies. 

      People are so forgiving towards Annie because she's done more to earn a chance at redemption than Reiner has. He destroyed Wall Maria killed thousands and is devoted to Marley's cause and believes the Paradis-Eldians are "earth devils". Reiner is emotionally damaged true with split-personality but his "Warrior" persona seems to outweigh his "Soldier" persona, and he doesn't appear to be remorseful for the lives he's taken but just damaged at how many he's taken. Annie has killed several dozen including Petra and Marco, but she appears more remorseful of her misdeeds and doesn't appear that devoted to Marley's cause compared to Reiner. She's also done more to indicate she became more sincere towards Paradis as she saved Connie and Jean, hesitated to kill Armin several times, trained Eren, helped Marlowe and was in tears when she left Marco to die, which Reiner forced her to do. 

      Reiner did much more for paradis than Annie, he really believed he was a soldier, helping everyone. Annie was just an ant social who did literaly nothing for nobody. And the way Annie killed her victims in the forest were cooler, she even got to play with their bodies. 

      Reiner is the first responsible for the death of 250000 civilians. I mean he has always been Bertholdt's leader. He was also Annie's leader during the whole Trost battle: She was waiting for his orders when RBA were waiting for the Titans to gather in Trost district (Read chapter 7) and he ordered her to help him kill Marco (Read chapter 77). Also, in chapter 94, Reiner was the most commited to his mission: He was sucking up captain Magath, always saying that he would obliterate the daemons on the island and stuff.

      Also, you cannot say to people that you are both the murderer of 250000 civilans and their friends. This is doesn't make any sense. Thus Reiner's behaviour was utterly incoherent. Also, Reiner had finally some regrets in chapter 94, but it was to few, to late.

      Also, no, Annie is not asocial. She was Eren's mentor. She was Armin's friend. She is Marlow and Hitch's friend. She does like a lot her father. To me, this is social behaviour.

      Also, it is wrong to say that she did nothing for nobody. She saved spontaneously Connie's life, she spared Armin on the battlefield. She didn't want Armin and Connie to enlist in the Survey corps, because she was afraid of having to kill them. This is because of Annie's training that Eren could beat Reiner in "Clash of Titans arc".

      Also, you seem to completely ignore the context of what happened in the forest. The Survey corps deliberately trapped her in the first place by using Ereen as a bait. Also, all the soldiers she killed tried to kill her in the first place or to disable her Titan in the first place. I mean: Annie Leonhardt has the right to defend her own  life.  So you cannot call the soldiers she killed " her victims". Also, she was quite brutal, but she played only with one soldier (And she played with him only 10 seconds before killing him.). 

      To finish killing dozens of soldiers is not the same thing as killing 250000 civilians. If you resent Annie for killing dozens of soldiers but you don' t resent Reiner for the killing of 250000 civilians, then it is anyway useless to talk to you. 

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    • Has any shifter ever died without getting eaten or Ymir's curse eroding their body?

      Experienced shifters don't die from conventional injures, even fatal ones. Decapitate them, and they transfer brain functions to the rest of their body while growing a new head.

      Obliterate their entire body, and they transfer consciousness to the paths until a new body gets reformed outta thin air (I bet that can be done by Reiner).

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    • It hasn't happened to anyone we know of, but I think it's possible for them to die, otherwise experienced characters could be more reckless (or apathetic) about protecting themselves and others. Reiner protected Zeke at Fort Slava when the battle was just about over.

      If Zeke was in no danger of dying and would eventually regenerate, why bother? It's not like he was needed again in the next five minutes (possibly not even in the next five days) so he'd have plenty of time to regenerate. Sure, getting hit by a bunch of ship cannons hurts, but if everything grows back, no lasting damage right?

      The fact Reiner protected Zeke seems like a decision to save another shifter's life, because being armored, even if it's not as great as it used to be, gave Reiner a better chance at survival.

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    • RuneLai wrote: It hasn't happened to anyone we know of, but I think it's possible for them to die, otherwise experienced characters could be more reckless (or apathetic) about protecting themselves and others. Reiner protected Zeke at Fort Slava when the battle was just about over.

      If Zeke was in no danger of dying and would eventually regenerate, why bother? It's not like he was needed again in the next five minutes (possibly not even in the next five days) so he'd have plenty of time to regenerate. Sure, getting hit by a bunch of ship cannons hurts, but if everything grows back, no lasting damage right?

      The fact Reiner protected Zeke seems like a decision to save another shifter's life, because being armored, even if it's not as great as it used to be, gave Reiner a better chance at survival.

      Reiner saving Zeke may have saved him so your correct. Reiner betraying Marley is highly unlikely because he will not have a side to go to. He attacked Wall Maria so Paradis is out of the question. But the Ninth Titan may be someone who is neutral or serving their own side so Reiner might join the ninth shifter. Anyways we are 10 days away from chapter 95 I hope that more information will be made available.

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    • RandomDudeDude wrote:
      And clearly, Reiner does not think that Paradis Eldians are Devils, if you read chapter 94. He looks so done and far conflicted. Sure, Annie is remorseful as well, but she still had no problem into killing people in many creative ways.

      Concerning what Reiner thinks about the Paradise Eldians,  the reality is more complex than what you said, (And I read chapter 94):

      When he was 10 years old (In chapter 94), he seems to me that he thought that Paradis Island Eldians were devils because he said to  Betholdt: "If I deal punishment to the Paradise island demons who are terrorizing the world, I'll be saving the Eldians race... And the whole world." I mean: Why would Reiner lie to Bertholdt? After all, Bertholdt was his main friend and his confident. Thus Reiner was brainwashed and  thaught that Paradise Island  were devils. Later on Paradise Island (In chapter 42)  it seems to me that he changed a bit his mind and he was a bit conflicted, because on one hand he said to Eren after revealing himself: "I don't know what's right or what's wrong anymore" but on the other hand, he was very comptentuous, because he said: "I've spent 3 years of my life living here, surrounded by fools, that's what I said a stupid thing like that."Also in chapter 77, he said to Annie : "Have you started to feel compassion for this evil race?". So in Paradise island he believed less that  Paradise Eldians were devils, yet Reiner remained very loyal to Marley. To finish in chapter 94, it seems to me that adullt Reiner he had some regrets about what he did on Paradise Island, because he said partly the truth to his family about the Eldians of Paradise Island. 

      Concerning Annie, she didn't killed "people" in the forest.  She killed soldiers who tried to kill her first or tried to disable her Titan first. I mean: Annie Leonhardt has the right to defend her own life.  However, it is true that she was quite brutal. Also, sure Reiner was sometimes conflicted on Paradise island, but he still had no problem into distroying the gates of Wall Maria and Wall Rose and indirectly killing 250000 civilians.

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    • They were all brainwashed at a young age to do Marley's bidding. Take Annie yes she killed a lot of people but like u said it's more self-defence then going out of her way to kill. They may have been gruesome but she showed remorse specifically with Armin. If she was intent on killing she would have killed Armin then and there. There's also the fact she was determined to return to homeland and go to her dad by the looks of it so she had her own reasoning to do what she did. 

      With Marcos death, they all were shown to be upset and regretted what they did but they had no choice to otherwise they would be exposed and their mission over. With Reiner he's always shown the conflict in his thoughts and actions and I think he knows that Paradis isn't evil in any way there just surviving like Marley there both victims of this long conflict and just want it to end. 

      For both Reiner and Bertholt when destroying the gates the first time was before they met everyone and learned what the people of Paradise were like, the second time yes they showed no mercy afterwards but showed they regretted in later on as shown in the Anime. 

      In my view there not evil just following orders as they have to opinions aside they may agree or disagree with what they need to do but it's their duty to fulfil out these orders to the end. As for how they will die, I can imagine during the next confrontation mainly between Eren and Reiner there will be some conflict mentally on if Reiner will fight Eren or help him set everyone free both Marley and Paradise. He may die simply during conflict I doubt his power will get transferred. 

      As for Zeke however i think he will either transfer his powers to a new person so they wouldn't be able to use all the beast titan powers as t, ere not royal blood or perhaps he will duel with Eren as although Zeke is stronger Eren can use the coordinate once they come into contact which should even out the fight. I think i dual between essentially the last members of the Yeager family would be quite fitting. 

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    • Theend3 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      And clearly, Reiner does not think that Paradis Eldians are Devils, if you read chapter 94. He looks so done and far conflicted. Sure, Annie is remorseful as well, but she still had no problem into killing people in many creative ways.
      Concerning what Reiner thinks about the Paradise Eldians,  the reality is more complex than what you said, (And I read chapter 94):

      When he was 10 years old (In chapter 94), he seems to me that he thought that Paradis Island Eldians were devils because he said to  Betholdt: "If I deal punishment to the Paradise island demons who are terrorizing the world, I'll be saving the Eldians race... And the whole world." I mean: Why would Reiner lie to Bertholdt? After all, Bertholdt was his main friend and his confident. Thus Reiner was brainwashed and  thaught that Paradise Island  were devils. Later on Paradise Island (In chapter 42)  it seems to me that he changed a bit his mind and he was a bit conflicted, because on one hand he said to Eren after revealing himself: "I don't know what's right or what's wrong anymore" but on the other hand, he was very comptentuous, because he said: "I've spent 3 years of my life living here, surrounded by fools, that's what I said a stupid thing like that."Also in chapter 77, he said to Annie : "Have you started to feel compassion for this evil race?". So in Paradise island he believed less that  Paradise Eldians were devils, yet Reiner remained very loyal to Marley. To finish in chapter 94, it seems to me that adullt Reiner he had some regrets about what he did on Paradise Island, because he said partly the truth to his family about the Eldians of Paradise Island. 

      Concerning Annie, she didn't killed "people" in the forest.  She killed soldiers who tried to kill her first or tried to disable her Titan first. I mean: Annie Leonhardt has the right to defend her own life.  However, it is true that she was quite brutal. Also, sure Reiner was sometimes conflicted on Paradise island, but he still had no problem into distroying the gates of Wall Maria and Wall Rose and indirectly killing 250000 civilians.

      You seem to forget that Reiner eventually decided to stop the advance at Wall Rose and that Annie first attacked the soldiers from the right. Not just the forest, I'm talking especially about her attack in the open. It's the soldiers who were defending themselves, and they weren't even aware of Erwin's plan. And all you said about Reiner I already knew that. I was just talking about our current older Reiner.

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    • Theend3
      Theend3 removed this reply because:
      I wanted to reply directly to RandomDudeDude, but I didn't manage to.
      16:23, July 1, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Theend3
      Theend3 removed this reply because:
      I did another mistake when I edited this reply.
      16:26, July 1, 2017
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    • RandomDudeDude wrote:
      Theend3 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      And clearly, Reiner does not think that Paradis Eldians are Devils, if you read chapter 94. He looks so done and far conflicted. Sure, Annie is remorseful as well, but she still had no problem into killing people in many creative ways.
      Concerning what Reiner thinks about the Paradise Eldians,  the reality is more complex than what you said, (And I read chapter 94):

      When he was 10 years old (In chapter 94), he seems to me that he thought that Paradis Island Eldians were devils because he said to  Betholdt: "If I deal punishment to the Paradise island demons who are terrorizing the world, I'll be saving the Eldians race... And the whole world." I mean: Why would Reiner lie to Bertholdt? After all, Bertholdt was his main friend and his confident. Thus Reiner was brainwashed and  thaught that Paradise Island  were devils. Later on Paradise Island (In chapter 42)  it seems to me that he changed a bit his mind and he was a bit conflicted, because on one hand he said to Eren after revealing himself: "I don't know what's right or what's wrong anymore" but on the other hand, he was very comptentuous, because he said: "I've spent 3 years of my life living here, surrounded by fools, that's what I said a stupid thing like that."Also in chapter 77, he said to Annie : "Have you started to feel compassion for this evil race?". So in Paradise island he believed less that  Paradise Eldians were devils, yet Reiner remained very loyal to Marley. To finish in chapter 94, it seems to me that adullt Reiner he had some regrets about what he did on Paradise Island, because he said partly the truth to his family about the Eldians of Paradise Island. 

      Concerning Annie, she didn't killed "people" in the forest.  She killed soldiers who tried to kill her first or tried to disable her Titan first. I mean: Annie Leonhardt has the right to defend her own life.  However, it is true that she was quite brutal. Also, sure Reiner was sometimes conflicted on Paradise island, but he still had no problem into distroying the gates of Wall Maria and Wall Rose and indirectly killing 250000 civilians.

      You seem to forget that Reiner eventually decided to stop the advance at Wall Rose and that Annie first attacked the soldiers from the right. Not just the forest, I'm talking especially about her attack in the open. It's the soldiers who were defending themselves, and they weren't even aware of Erwin's plan. And all you said about Reiner I already knew that. I was just talking about our current older Reiner.

      So you recognize that Reiner was in charge during the attacks of Wall Rose and Wall Maria. Thus, he is the first responsible for those attacks. Also you seem to forget that when Reiner stopped the Attack on Trost District, there was already thousands of civilians and military deaths. I mean: Do you remember the streets full of corpses and the corpse to whom Annie apologized? Also, Reiner didn't stop Trost attack because he was conflicted or because he had remorse but only because catching Eren became his priority (Read chapter 77). Reiner became interested in Eren because he wanted the coordinate.

      Concerning "her attack" in the open, you're wrong. Leader Neiss and Cis attacked her first. I mean: She was searching for Eren and leader Neiss ordered Cis to attack her first (Read chapter 22).  So she had the right to defend her own life. I agree that Erwin and Levi deliberately lied to their own men about the Female Titan. Thus, Erwin and Levi's behaviour towards their own men was criminal. But Annie couldn't know that the soldiers didn't know that the female Titan was very dangerous. So, she had indeed the right to defend her own life.

      Also, you seem to forget that the whole 57th expedition had only one goal: Erwin wanted to catch the Female Titan. Otherwise why would Erwin install such a costly and complex trap with harpons in the forest? It wouldn't make any sense. Also, if they had captured Annie, they would have tortured her, then they would have probably killed her. And if Erwin had captured Annie, Marley would have very probably killed her father in reprisal. So, Annie didn't killed innocent "people", the reality is far more complex than that.

      Anyway, if you resent Annie for killing dozens of soldiers but you don't resent Reiner for being the first responsible for the deaths of 250000 civilians, then it useless to talk to you. 

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    • The Duck Titan wrote:
      They were all brainwashed at a young age to do Marley's bidding. Take Annie yes she killed a lot of people but like u said it's more self-defence then going out of her way to kill. They may have been gruesome but she showed remorse specifically with Armin. If she was intent on killing she would have killed Armin then and there. There's also the fact she was determined to return to homeland and go to her dad by the looks of it so she had her own reasoning to do what she did. 

      With Marcos death, they all were shown to be upset and regretted what they did but they had no choice to otherwise they would be exposed and their mission over. With Reiner he's always shown the conflict in his thoughts and actions and I think he knows that Paradis isn't evil in any way there just surviving like Marley there both victims of this long conflict and just want it to end. 

      For both Reiner and Bertholt when destroying the gates the first time was before they met everyone and learned what the people of Paradise were like, the second time yes they showed no mercy afterwards but showed they regretted in later on as shown in the Anime. 

      In my view there not evil just following orders as they have to opinions aside they may agree or disagree with what they need to do but it's their duty to fulfil out these orders to the end. As for how they will die, I can imagine during the next confrontation mainly between Eren and Reiner there will be some conflict mentally on if Reiner will fight Eren or help him set everyone free both Marley and Paradise. He may die simply during conflict I doubt his power will get transferred. 

      As for Zeke however i think he will either transfer his powers to a new person so they wouldn't be able to use all the beast titan powers as t, ere not royal blood or perhaps he will duel with Eren as although Zeke is stronger Eren can use the coordinate once they come into contact which should even out the fight. I think i dual between essentially the last members of the Yeager family would be quite fitting. 

      I don't think that Annie was brainwashed because in chapter 17 she said to Eren and Reiner that  their ideals had nothing to do with reality (=Reiner was very loyal to Marley. Eren had ideals against Titans.) and she said that  her father forced to train and become a warrior. She said  in chapter 31 that she  prioritized her own interest above other', she compared herself to the other trainees. She thought she was rotten and clearly was a bad person. She also said that she was a normal person.   She also said to Eren and Armin that she failed to become a warrior. So it seems to me she has no hatred to the Paradise Eldians and it seems to me she doesn't consider them as demons. It seems to me she did what she did because she only wanted her father to stay alive and to come back home.

      Also, Annie is a criminal, but before definitively judging her character, I would like to know who  her father is. I mean he forced his own girl to become a warrior. And we didn't have a clear look at his face in the manga. So, I think he is an important character in the show. Also he's not like people like Gabi's parents or Karina Braun, because he said what he did was wrong. So, maybe he is a restorationist who wanted Annie to spy into the Marleyan government, as Grishka did to Zeke and that he later changed his mind and decided to prioriticize Annie's safety above everything else. Also, maybe Annie's father is related to the Owl (=Eren Krueger). I don't know. Time will tell...

      Concerning current older Reiner, I do hope that he will work to end this absurd war. I would like him to help Falco to end this war. It would be a good ending for him. 

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    • Theend3 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      Theend3 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      And clearly, Reiner does not think that Paradis Eldians are Devils, if you read chapter 94. He looks so done and far conflicted. Sure, Annie is remorseful as well, but she still had no problem into killing people in many creative ways.
      Concerning what Reiner thinks about the Paradise Eldians,  the reality is more complex than what you said, (And I read chapter 94):

      When he was 10 years old (In chapter 94), he seems to me that he thought that Paradis Island Eldians were devils because he said to  Betholdt: "If I deal punishment to the Paradise island demons who are terrorizing the world, I'll be saving the Eldians race... And the whole world." I mean: Why would Reiner lie to Bertholdt? After all, Bertholdt was his main friend and his confident. Thus Reiner was brainwashed and  thaught that Paradise Island  were devils. Later on Paradise Island (In chapter 42)  it seems to me that he changed a bit his mind and he was a bit conflicted, because on one hand he said to Eren after revealing himself: "I don't know what's right or what's wrong anymore" but on the other hand, he was very comptentuous, because he said: "I've spent 3 years of my life living here, surrounded by fools, that's what I said a stupid thing like that."Also in chapter 77, he said to Annie : "Have you started to feel compassion for this evil race?". So in Paradise island he believed less that  Paradise Eldians were devils, yet Reiner remained very loyal to Marley. To finish in chapter 94, it seems to me that adullt Reiner he had some regrets about what he did on Paradise Island, because he said partly the truth to his family about the Eldians of Paradise Island. 

      Concerning Annie, she didn't killed "people" in the forest.  She killed soldiers who tried to kill her first or tried to disable her Titan first. I mean: Annie Leonhardt has the right to defend her own life.  However, it is true that she was quite brutal. Also, sure Reiner was sometimes conflicted on Paradise island, but he still had no problem into distroying the gates of Wall Maria and Wall Rose and indirectly killing 250000 civilians.

      You seem to forget that Reiner eventually decided to stop the advance at Wall Rose and that Annie first attacked the soldiers from the right. Not just the forest, I'm talking especially about her attack in the open. It's the soldiers who were defending themselves, and they weren't even aware of Erwin's plan. And all you said about Reiner I already knew that. I was just talking about our current older Reiner.

      So you recognize that Reiner was in charge during the attacks of Wall Rose and Wall Maria. Thus, he is the first responsible for those attacks. Also you seem to forget that when Reiner stopped the Attack on Trost District, there was already thousands of civilians and military deaths. I mean: Do you remember the streets full of corpses and the corpse to whom Annie apologized? Also, Reiner didn't stop Trost attack because he was conflicted or because he had remorse but only because catching Eren became his priority (Read chapter 77). Reiner became interested in Eren because he wanted the coordinate.

      Concerning "her attack" in the open, you're wrong. Leader Neiss and Cis attacked her first. I mean: She was searching for Eren and leader Neiss ordered Cis to attack her first (Read chapter 22).  So she had the right to defend her own life. I agree that Erwin and Levi deliberately lied to their own men about the Female Titan. Thus, Erwin and Levi's behaviour towards their own men was criminal. But Annie couldn't know that the soldiers didn't know that the female Titan was very dangerous. So, she had indeed the right to defend her own life.

      Also, you seem to forget that the whole 57th expedition had only one goal: Erwin wanted to catch the Female Titan. Otherwise why would Erwin install such a costly and complex trap with harpons in the forest? It wouldn't make any sense. Also, if they had captured Annie, they would have tortured her, then they would have probably killed her. And if Erwin had captured Annie, Marley would have very probably killed her father in reprisal. So, Annie didn't killed innocent "people", the reality is far more complex than that.

      Anyway, if you resent Annie for killing dozens of soldiers but you don't resent Reiner for being the first responsible for the deaths of 250000 civilians, then it useless to talk to you. 

      What?? Don't make things up. All the civilians of Trost successfully evacuated and only soldiers died (yes, lots of them, yes). The Garrison was way more prepared.

      Concerning her attack, I'm not wrong. I remind you that Annie brought a bunch of Titans to destroy the right wing way before she met Ness, Siss, and Armin.

      Sorry, I'm in a hurry, so I have no time for a better longer response, got to go.

      Reiner, Bert, and Annie are among my faves btw

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    • RandomDudeDude wrote:
      Theend3 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      Theend3 wrote:
      RandomDudeDude wrote:
      And clearly, Reiner does not think that Paradis Eldians are Devils, if you read chapter 94. He looks so done and far conflicted. Sure, Annie is remorseful as well, but she still had no problem into killing people in many creative ways.
      Concerning what Reiner thinks about the Paradise Eldians,  the reality is more complex than what you said, (And I read chapter 94):

      When he was 10 years old (In chapter 94), he seems to me that he thought that Paradis Island Eldians were devils because he said to  Betholdt: "If I deal punishment to the Paradise island demons who are terrorizing the world, I'll be saving the Eldians race... And the whole world." I mean: Why would Reiner lie to Bertholdt? After all, Bertholdt was his main friend and his confident. Thus Reiner was brainwashed and  thaught that Paradise Island  were devils. Later on Paradise Island (In chapter 42)  it seems to me that he changed a bit his mind and he was a bit conflicted, because on one hand he said to Eren after revealing himself: "I don't know what's right or what's wrong anymore" but on the other hand, he was very comptentuous, because he said: "I've spent 3 years of my life living here, surrounded by fools, that's what I said a stupid thing like that."Also in chapter 77, he said to Annie : "Have you started to feel compassion for this evil race?". So in Paradise island he believed less that  Paradise Eldians were devils, yet Reiner remained very loyal to Marley. To finish in chapter 94, it seems to me that adullt Reiner he had some regrets about what he did on Paradise Island, because he said partly the truth to his family about the Eldians of Paradise Island. 

      Concerning Annie, she didn't killed "people" in the forest.  She killed soldiers who tried to kill her first or tried to disable her Titan first. I mean: Annie Leonhardt has the right to defend her own life.  However, it is true that she was quite brutal. Also, sure Reiner was sometimes conflicted on Paradise island, but he still had no problem into distroying the gates of Wall Maria and Wall Rose and indirectly killing 250000 civilians.

      You seem to forget that Reiner eventually decided to stop the advance at Wall Rose and that Annie first attacked the soldiers from the right. Not just the forest, I'm talking especially about her attack in the open. It's the soldiers who were defending themselves, and they weren't even aware of Erwin's plan. And all you said about Reiner I already knew that. I was just talking about our current older Reiner.

      So you recognize that Reiner was in charge during the attacks of Wall Rose and Wall Maria. Thus, he is the first responsible for those attacks. Also you seem to forget that when Reiner stopped the Attack on Trost District, there was already thousands of civilians and military deaths. I mean: Do you remember the streets full of corpses and the corpse to whom Annie apologized? Also, Reiner didn't stop Trost attack because he was conflicted or because he had remorse but only because catching Eren became his priority (Read chapter 77). Reiner became interested in Eren because he wanted the coordinate.

      Concerning "her attack" in the open, you're wrong. Leader Neiss and Cis attacked her first. I mean: She was searching for Eren and leader Neiss ordered Cis to attack her first (Read chapter 22).  So she had the right to defend her own life. I agree that Erwin and Levi deliberately lied to their own men about the Female Titan. Thus, Erwin and Levi's behaviour towards their own men was criminal. But Annie couldn't know that the soldiers didn't know that the female Titan was very dangerous. So, she had indeed the right to defend her own life.

      Also, you seem to forget that the whole 57th expedition had only one goal: Erwin wanted to catch the Female Titan. Otherwise why would Erwin install such a costly and complex trap with harpons in the forest? It wouldn't make any sense. Also, if they had captured Annie, they would have tortured her, then they would have probably killed her. And if Erwin had captured Annie, Marley would have very probably killed her father in reprisal. So, Annie didn't killed innocent "people", the reality is far more complex than that.

      Anyway, if you resent Annie for killing dozens of soldiers but you don't resent Reiner for being the first responsible for the deaths of 250000 civilians, then it useless to talk to you. 

      What?? Don't make things up. All the civilians of Trost successfully evacuated and only soldiers died (yes, lots of them, yes). The Garrison was way more prepared.

      Concerning her attack, I'm not wrong. I remind you that Annie brought a bunch of Titans to destroy the right wing way before she met Ness, Siss, and Armin.

      Sorry, I'm in a hurry, so I have no time for a better longer response, got to go.

      Reiner, Bert, and Annie are among my faves btw

      Concerning Trost battle, I probably made a mistake: There were probably no civilian deaths. I'll have to look at that. Also, I'm not a nerd, so I can sometimes do mistakes. Also, do you never do mistakes? Are you perfect M. RandomDudeDude? And you harshly accused me of "making things up". Are you trying to denigrate me? Anyway, as you said, that doesn't change the fact that there were many military deaths during this battle, where need I remind you, Reiner was in charge.

      Concerning "her" attack, I'm not wrong either. Annie never DIRECTLY attacked the soldiers first, all the soldiers she killed attacked her first. And I remind you that Erwin and Levi deliberately created the 57th expedition only to catch the Female Titan even before the bunch of Titans attacked the scouts. They used Eren as a bait and even said publicly that they would go to Grishka's Yaeger basement. They knew that she would try to catch Eren. Sort of, Erwin and Levi triggered this awful mess. Also, it was their duty to say their own men that the Female Titan was very dangerous, it was not Annie's problem, I'm surprised you say nothing about it.

      Also, concerning "her" attack, you seem to forget that Reiner was her accomplice, since he said to Annie where Eren was, by carving with his blade Eren's exact position into her Titan hand. Also, Reiner probably ordered her to catch Eren, I mean: In the Trost arc, Reiner was very interested in Eren when he discovered that Eren was a Shifter. But Annie wasn't. So you can deduce that Reiner probably gave Annie the mission to catch Eren. Maybe he also wanted to test Annie's loyalty by giving her such a mission. Also, Reiner knew that such a mission would cause many military deaths. So, I'm surprised that you say nothing about Reiner's responsability in "her" attack.

      Anyway, you didn't answer to my main point: Annie has the right to defend her own life. I'm very surprised that you say nothing about that. I mean: I know very well that she's a criminal, but how dare you to suggest that she shouldn't defend her own life? In what world do you live? Of course she will defend her own life, no matter what!

      I'm the one who is in hurry and who don't have a lot of time to waste!

      And I'm interested in Annie and the current 21 years old Reiner. Good week-end.

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    • I'm just hoping their deaths will be as horrifying and agonizing as possible as penance for their crimes against the people of Paradis.

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    • I think Reiner will die from Ymirs curse of 13 years and get his wish of returning home to his homeland. Plus Annie,Bertolt,and Reiner were just kids being Manipulated so its not their falt. Same for Annie, She'll be freed by Reiner and return home. But Zeke can die.

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    • Except I have my doubts about ever seeing Annie return. Even if she does return, it's unlikely she'll have long like her fellow warriors.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      Except I have my doubts about ever seeing Annie return. Even if she does return, it's unlikely she'll have long like her fellow warriors.

      I actually had a theory on that a while ago. I think the crystal she sealed herself within has physically stopped her aging so I think the curse has literally been halted until she wakes up, so she could get a few more years of life if she wakes up. 

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    • Eobard95 wrote:
      So I think a battle between Paradis and Marley is inevitable I'm curious to see how Reiner and Zeke will be killed, as I think they most likley will be, and I think I have a very satisfying way for them to get killed. 
      Annie Leonhart character image

      I think it'd be great if Annie redeemed and if she and Armin killed Reiner.

      Reiner: I think Reiner should be killed in a team up between Armin and Annie (freed from the crystal and redeeming herself by helping the Survey Corps) where Annie and Reiner fight in an epic Female Titan vs Armored Titan showdown which ends with either Armin literally squashing Reiner under his Collosal Titan's foot while Annie has him distracted, or with Armin holding Reiner down while Annie tears Reiner out of his Titan forms nape and killing him. I know Reiner is basically Eren's archenemy but I think her dying at Annie and Armin's hands would be better as the Armored, Collosal and Female Titans were the ones who started the conflicted, so having the Armored Titan being killed by the Female and Collosal Titans would be poetic. It'd give Annie a chance to redeem and give Armin some more growth, pun intended. 


      File:Levi character image anime.png
      Zeke: I think Zeke should be killed in a team up between Eren and Levi where the Yeager siblings fight in an epic Attack Titan vs Beast Titan showdown which ends with Levi cutting Zeke out of his Titan form while Eren has him distracted and killing him. While this series doesn't really have main antagonists as even Bertholdt was a tragic character despite being the Collosal Titan, I do consider Zeke to be the closest thing to the series main antagonist so it'd make sense if he met his end at the hands of the series main protagonist and the series fan favorite character. 

      So this is how I think Reiner and Zeke should be killed eventually in the series. What ydo you think? 

      I hope he will change side in the end

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    • I think it will be great if after a battle, Zeke, Pieck, Galliard and Reiner VS Eren, Annie, Armin, and some humans like Levi and Hange. Then after a battle and possibly losing one of the Marleyans, they decide to team up with the Eldians in a battle to anhialate Marley completely, then maybe the asian clans show up or something

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    • Still difficult to prove.

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    • Aggression25 wrote: Still difficult to prove.

      What is?

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    • Senatedude14 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote: Still difficult to prove.

      What is?

      I'm sorry, it's still difficult to prove whether or not Annie will return and if her 13-year curse was halted because of the crystallization she entombed herself in. We think she'll come back, but we don't really know for sure.

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    • I feel like you're all underestimating this story if you think it's gonna end with "fan favourite badass Levi and main character Eren" killing Zeke. Or something as stupid as Annie redeeming herself but Reiner getting mercilessly killed. In the end, I doubt there's even gonna be a fight like this, and if there is, it would certainly be handled better.

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    • Qoherys wrote: I feel like you're all underestimating this story if you think it's gonna end with "fan favourite badass Levi and main character Eren" killing Zeke. Or something as stupid as Annie redeeming herself but Reiner getting mercilessly killed. In the end, I doubt there's even gonna be a fight like this, and if there is, it would certainly be handled better.

      I'm fine with Eren dying but Levi being killed off would affect the Manga so much that fan base may turn on Hajime. Levi is one of the most popular characters in Anime and Manga if he is to be killed off he would need to take someone or something with him to at least appease the fan base. Also the AOT fights have always been handled well don't doubt that my friend.

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    • No, we can't have Eren die just yet (or ever). We gotta see an epic showdown between the Rogue/Attack Titan and Beast Titan.

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    • Aggression25 wrote: No, we can't have Eren die just yet (or ever). We gotta see an epic showdown between the Rogue/Attack Titan and Beast Titan.

      He is no match for him.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      No, we can't have Eren die just yet (or ever). We gotta see an epic showdown between the Rogue/Attack Titan and Beast Titan.

      That wouldn't work out for Eren. The beast titan is (apparently) the second strongest titan after the founding titan. Besides, it would be very risky, because if Zeke won the fight and ate Eren, he would gain the Coordinate ability, and he would actually be able to use it as he has royal blood from his mother.

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    • ChMcC779 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:
      No, we can't have Eren die just yet (or ever). We gotta see an epic showdown between the Rogue/Attack Titan and Beast Titan.

      That wouldn't work out for Eren. The beast titan is (apparently) the second strongest titan after the founding titan. Besides, it would be very risky, because if Zeke won the fight and ate Eren, he would gain the Coordinate ability, and he would actually be able to use it as he has royal blood from his mother.

      Except Zeke's only got less than a year left to live so the power is wasted on him...and what if Eren was used as bait to throw off Zeke, allowing Armin to eat him if he ate Eren?

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    • Listen I killed off my protagonist at the end of my third story to my own series that has yet to be published I was able to pass the protagonist mantle to another character. I don't see the issue if Hajime does the same. Eren might die or he may not who knows.

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    • Senatedude14 wrote: Listen I killed off my protagonist at the end of my third story to my own series that has yet to be published I was able to pass the protagonist mantle to another character. I don't see the issue if Hajime does the same. Eren might die or he may not who knows.

      What do you hope for Eren?

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote: Listen I killed off my protagonist at the end of my third story to my own series that has yet to be published I was able to pass the protagonist mantle to another character. I don't see the issue if Hajime does the same. Eren might die or he may not who knows.

      What do you hope for Eren?

      Something satisfying.

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    • Senatedude14 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote: Listen I killed off my protagonist at the end of my third story to my own series that has yet to be published I was able to pass the protagonist mantle to another character. I don't see the issue if Hajime does the same. Eren might die or he may not who knows.

      What do you hope for Eren?

      Something satisfying.

      I honestly just want to see him be able to live somewhere with Mikasa.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote: Listen I killed off my protagonist at the end of my third story to my own series that has yet to be published I was able to pass the protagonist mantle to another character. I don't see the issue if Hajime does the same. Eren might die or he may not who knows.

      What do you hope for Eren?

      Something satisfying.

      I honestly just want to see him be able to live somewhere with Mikasa.

      If the curse is real then it won't happen at all.

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    • Senatedude14 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote: Listen I killed off my protagonist at the end of my third story to my own series that has yet to be published I was able to pass the protagonist mantle to another character. I don't see the issue if Hajime does the same. Eren might die or he may not who knows.

      What do you hope for Eren?

      Something satisfying.

      I honestly just want to see him be able to live somewhere with Mikasa.

      If the curse is real then it won't happen at all.

      And that's gonna suck much if it happens.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:

      Senatedude14 wrote: Listen I killed off my protagonist at the end of my third story to my own series that has yet to be published I was able to pass the protagonist mantle to another character. I don't see the issue if Hajime does the same. Eren might die or he may not who knows.

      What do you hope for Eren?
      Something satisfying.
      I honestly just want to see him be able to live somewhere with Mikasa.
      If the curse is real then it won't happen at all.
      And that's gonna suck much if it happens.

      I honestly think Eren might die a fitting heroic death, in which he himself would be surrounded by the people he cares for. such as Levi, Mikasa, Armin...and it would end perfectly.

      I got this after seeing Logan, and War for the Planet of the Apes. This death would be a great plot.

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    • Nope, eren won't die.

      he'll be free, and will live to explore the world with Armin and Mikasa. His mother told him to live just before her death, and i think no one in the world other than Carla can make Eren listen and obey, not even Mikasa or Levi.... and by the way, Logan had already seen the world enough to satisfy him. Eren has just seen war and death....

      As for Reiner, well, it would be idiotic to say he will die facing the 104th or SC.... He is one of the two main characters now... and Hajime is smart, as i guessed, Eren and Reiner are mirror imaged of each other, both sufferd in their childhoods, lost important people, and most of all, were taught to hate their enemies. For Eren, it was Titans(who were fellow innocent eldians). For Reiner, it was the walldians(innocent, thought to be devils). Later, it turned out neither Titans nor Walldians were bad, but it was Marley, who came in and made the situation worse.

      It's very unpredictable right now. 

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    • A FANDOM user
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