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    • Where the hell did you find this chapter this early?

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    • There's been scans posted here and there.  You can easily find a link on the shingekinokyojin reddit page.

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    • Hmm, curious where things are going to go.

      Basically much of the world hates Eldia and Marley both.

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    • Is it just me, or were those Titans disco-dancing on page 12?

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    • PlasmaCutterPHD wrote:
      Is it just me, or were those Titans disco-dancing on page 12?

      That's what happens when Titans eat drunk people

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    • Jelana might free Annie? A rift in Mikasa's and Eren's relationship? Hange being freaked out by something? Meh, I'm more interested in what will become of Gabi and Falco

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    • Great chapter  though this is another flashblack chapter. I want to see current time what has happen to Eren and survey corp.Just I predicted though its kind obvious Eren going to use The power of coordinate and with help from Zeke or Historia to control millions of colossal titans to annihiliate  all their enemies If they attack.

      Lol Levi seems to really hate Zeke yeager and want him to die^^ Well to be honest no one should trust Zeke,this guy have traitor backstabbing disorder he betray everyone for his own goals and motives.

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    • Speaking of Zeke and The Coordinate, if only one with the blood of royals can use it, how is Zeke going to get it? The only possible way we know of to do so is to eat Eren, which would explain why Zeke was so eager to meet with Eren one-on-one. Like hell the plot would go that way though, and Zeke's also almost out of time.

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    • I think he want to do the same what Eren did with Smiling Titan, Eren will "punch" Zeke's titan and it will allow him to use the Founder.

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    • Damn, Sasha is a hell lot more scary than any titan when it comes to eating, I feel really bad for that lobster for such a cruel fate it has to go through...



      Oh and I want a harbour too

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    • Erdagon
      Erdagon removed this reply because:
      Seeiturself
      18:43, June 9, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Due to how devoted Yelena is to Zeke, I would not be surprised if she ends up inheriting the Beast Titan from Zeke. She so far is a much more interesting and fleshed out character than Colt.

      Also, it is nice to see that Armin, and even Mikasa, are noticing Eren is becoming more and more erratic and detached in his actions, both during the flashback and after returning to Paradis. I feel Eren will eventually become too wrapped up in his quest to fight Marley that even his two closest friends will see him as too much of a threat or liability and abandon him

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    • I don't like how Paradis is too trusting of Zeke as of now. The man is giving off sociopathic vibes.

      Basically put:

      1. He established an alliance with Paradis three years ago using his faithful companion, giving them technology and plans to defeat Marley. He managed to convince them that diplomacy with other nations is possible.


      2. After the Mid-East War, he managed to convince Marley to attack Paradis again despite their initial objections and he even managed to bring the Tybur family into the mix.

      The fact he planned all of this, he has a known history of betrayal and cruelty(He didn't even care if his grandparents was killed due to his actions) and now Eren's friendship with his comrades has been destroyed is shaping of Zeke as the Main Antagonist of Attack on Titan.

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    • Just a minor note, but the official translation still has Grandma and Grandpa Jaeger still alive.  Levi's just saying that he could kill Zeke and let Marley know what he was planning, thus leading to their deaths.

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    • @Winston4278, how do you know that Yelena can turn into titan? maybe i missed something but i think she isn't Eldian.

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    • I really liked Hange's childlike enthusiasm about new technologies. Reminds me of myself.

      And I'm really, really glad that we got that last bit of Sasha in a flashback. Seems to me like a more proper sendoff. But then there was a mention of her funeral, and all my hopes sunk one millimeter deeper than Mariana's Trench.

      Jelena seems like a really good character, and just may fill this Alexandra shaped hole in my heart. Onyankopon also seems like a very chill dude.

      I'm glad that that little turd Gabi is in the bastille now. Hope someone eats her raw and unsalted, so she isn't even tasty. And here I never thought I could hate a fictional character to that degree...

      In all honesty, I never really liked Eren or Levi. So them being heatless bastards now isn't much of a wrench to me.

      All in all, the chapter was okay.

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    • Mikasa was sitting by Sasha's grave, were they really so close?

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    • سلومي العليمي wrote:
      Mikasa was sitting by Sasha's grave, were they really so close?

      Somehow, I get the feeling this is a case of Tell, Don't Show. When did that ever get any high emphasis anywhere in the manga? The entire situation, the actual murder, rings hollow because of all the circumstances surrounding it. 

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    • They used to burn the bodies when the titan threats were present, now they can afford to bury the bodies because they're not dearth of land anymore. It would be great if they can do it from the beginning, there were so much that died and forgotten, just eight graves there are while there were countless of death before

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    • I felt absolutely nothing reading this chapter. As far as I'm concerned, this thing is burning itself off from here on to the final, bloodsoaked end. 

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    • I've been thinking about the part where Eren says that Paradis needs to buy themselves some time and ensure they don't get any interference.  That got me thinking that the Mid-East Forces were possibly allied to Paradis, who convinced them to declare war against the Marleyans.  How likely is that?

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    • Can we just know what Gabi's punishment for her crimes will be? She hasn't been beaten badly enough. 

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    • Flexi13 wrote:
      @Winston4278, how do you know that Yelena can turn into titan? maybe i missed something but i think she isn't Eldian.

      Since Yelena said she was drafted, my first thought was that she's an Eldian. It is possible I jumped the gun there, but there is also a slim chance that some Eldians live in other nations besides Marley. Again, there's no way of knowing for sure; maybe it's just me wishfully hoping a more interesting character succeeds Zeke as the Beast Titan. Colt is just too boring for me.

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    • Yelena mentioned that she is from a country that Marley conquered. Considering she doesn't hail from any Eldian internment zone, and is serving in the main Marleyan army, rather than the Eldian unit, I would presume she's not Eldian.

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    • Damn Yelena, too bad you only got to show your awesomeness after the story suicided itself. Unlucky timing, kid. 

      And most definitely not Eldian. 

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    • Race-wise, most, if not all Eldians to date, or at least all Subjects of Ymir, have Germanic names. Taking into consideration that Jelena's name is of Greco-Slavic origin, I concur that she is indeed not Eldian.

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    • I'm feeling rather optimistic regarding the finale. Things are picking up, and while I too feel the burn of Sasha's death, I'm not going to let its sting make me resentful. 

      I'm not sure how many levels Zeke's zekrets go. He seems at least a little genuine regarding his loyalty to Paradise, but at this time I'm more inclined to think him loyal to Eren and no one else. He seems like the only guy he actually cares about, which makes sense. 

      And if Yelena's information is correct, then Paradise really did screw over Marley big time. Most of their bigger ships are gone now, and about a twentieth to a tenth of their army got vaporized. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Damn Yelena, too bad you only got to show your awesomeness after the story suicided itself. Unlucky timing, kid. 

      And most definitely not Eldian. 

      What do You mean it "suicided" itself?  Since  when?

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    • I'm really hoping that all of the biggest unanswered questions building up throughout the story will finally get around to being answered. Here's my own list of mysteries that've been driving me up the wall trying to figure out (pun intended):

      1) Eren's dream at the very beginning of the series.

      2) Ymir being the only one able to read that "strange writing" on the herring can.

      3) The "Invisible Paths" connecting every Subject of Ymir through time and space.

      4) Just how Eren Kruger gained the "Attack Titan" in the first place in complete secrecy while undercover in Marley.

      5) Eren Kruger telling Grisha to carry out his mission if he wants to save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else.

      6) The Smiling Titan ignoring Bertolt and headed straight for the Yeager household seemingly with purpose.

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    • PlasmaCutterPHD wrote:
      I'm really hoping that all of the biggest unanswered questions building up throughout the story will finally get around to being answered. Here's my own list of mysteries that've been driving me up the wall trying to figure out (pun intended):

      1) Eren's dream at the very beginning of the series.

      2) Ymir being the only one able to read that "strange writing" on the herring can.

      3) The "Invisible Paths" connecting every Subject of Ymir through time and space.

      4) Just how Eren Kruger gained the "Attack Titan" in the first place in complete secrecy while undercover in Marley.

      5) Eren Kruger telling Grisha to carry out his mission if he wants to save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else.

      6) The Smiling Titan ignoring Bertolt and headed straight for the Yeager household seemingly with purpose.

      2 isn't a mystery, Reiner was just pretending he could not read it to remain undercover (bit of a flimsy explanation, I'll admit, but it's the one that most fans go with), 4 isn't meant to be answered, we are just supposed to accept that Kruger came into possession of the Attack Titan at some point, and 6 happened because Dina was an abnormal Titan, and it is common for abnormals to target specific people and ignore others.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      Damn Yelena, too bad you only got to show your awesomeness after the story suicided itself. Unlucky timing, kid. 

      And most definitely not Eldian. 

      What do You mean it "suicided" itself?  Since  when?

      He's basically salty that Sasha got killed in the previous chapter and now considers this series a trainwreck.

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    • Neetaku wrote:
      PlasmaCutterPHD wrote:
      I'm really hoping that all of the biggest unanswered questions building up throughout the story will finally get around to being answered. Here's my own list of mysteries that've been driving me up the wall trying to figure out (pun intended):

      1) Eren's dream at the very beginning of the series.

      2) Ymir being the only one able to read that "strange writing" on the herring can.

      3) The "Invisible Paths" connecting every Subject of Ymir through time and space.

      4) Just how Eren Kruger gained the "Attack Titan" in the first place in complete secrecy while undercover in Marley.

      5) Eren Kruger telling Grisha to carry out his mission if he wants to save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else.

      6) The Smiling Titan ignoring Bertolt and headed straight for the Yeager household seemingly with purpose.

      2 isn't a mystery, Reiner was just pretending he could not read it to remain undercover (bit of a flimsy explanation, I'll admit, but it's the one that most fans go with), 4 isn't meant to be answered, we are just supposed to accept that Kruger came into possession of the Attack Titan at some point, and 6 happened because Dina was an abnormal Titan, and it is common for abnormals to target specific people and ignore others.

      2) I don't buy that as an explanation. Those same herring cans appear for a split-second during Season 2's Closing Theme (at the 0:22 mark to be exact) which was essentially an abridged version of Ymir Fritz's legacy. That would imply, at the very least, the "strange writing" is connected to Ymir Fritz and the first of her Subjects, probably their original language that was lost to time or deliberately forgotten through the combined efforts of Karl Fritz using the "Coordinate" and Marley's censorship. Ymir (104th one) was taken in by devout followers of Ymir Fritz, who probably were also privy to her "lost language" and taught Ymir how to read it.

      4) Something that extreme happened offscreen with no explanation and I'm just supposed to accept it? That doesn't do it for me. How the "Attack Titan" holders remained undetected in Marley for several decades before ending up in Kruger's possession is very intriguing. It should be addressed as such and not be a wasted opportunity.

      6) Okay, I'll bite. Dina promised Grisha she would find him no matter what happened to her before being Titanized which made her Titan an abnormal as a result. Fair enough. So how exactly could Dina possibly know where Grisha's home was in Shiganshina? She just knew? Through the "Paths" perhaps? Her Royal Blood may have played a role in this somehow...

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    • JacD94 wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      Damn Yelena, too bad you only got to show your awesomeness after the story suicided itself. Unlucky timing, kid. 

      And most definitely not Eldian. 

      What do You mean it "suicided" itself?  Since  when?
      He's basically salty that Sasha got killed in the previous chapter and now considers this series a trainwreck.

      You catch on quick, Jac. Ymir was a bad enough insult. Consider yourselves VERY fortunate that Annie turned up at all. But if you want to call me salty.........Dude, Sasha was sacred. So I have no problem saying I don't give a damn what the outcome of this thing is anymore. 

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    • Still struggling to come in term with potato girl's death? Sorry but I'm going to pour some lemon juice onto that wound (lol, can it hurt more than it already is? Don't answer)

      Shortly before Sasha got shot by Gabi, did you notice how fond Sasha was to Connie when he was hugging her and Jean? That look on her face, in her eyes, what do you think was that? I'm curious to see what might happen if Gabi didn't rekt Sasha

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    • Erdagon wrote:
      Still struggling to come in term with potato girl's death? Sorry but I'm going to pour some lemon juice onto that wound (lol, can it hurt more than it already is? Don't answer)

      Shortly before Sasha got shot by Gabi, did you notice how fond Sasha was to Connie when he was hugging her and Jean? That look on her face, in her eyes, what do you think was that? I'm curious to see what might happen if Gabi didn't rekt Sasha

      ...

      #LifeHack: If you ever burn your hand and don't have any ice nearby, you can put it over Erdagon's heart for an even better effect.

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    • Erdagon wrote:
      Still struggling to come in term with potato girl's death? Sorry but I'm going to pour some lemon juice onto that wound (lol, can it hurt more than it already is? Don't answer)

      Shortly before Sasha got shot by Gabi, did you notice how fond Sasha was to Connie when he was hugging her and Jean? That look on her face, in her eyes, what do you think was that? I'm curious to see what might happen if Gabi didn't rekt Sasha

      Dude, that chapter made me wanna vomit, seriously. I say that was the end of a perfectly good thing that shouldn't have been so callously tossed out. But that is me. 

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    • So are we supposed to be rooting for Eren anymore? Seems this guy is just content to be a weapon of war regardless of who dies for it. And his sorrow over Sasha seems to have been little more than momentary. After all, we know these two had no meaningful relationship outside of being members of the same squad. At this point, he's every bit a war criminal as the Warriors or Gabi Braun. Armin hasn't abandoned his humanity, Eren though, he's a different story. 

      At this time, I literally couldn't bring myself to care if Eren were to die. 

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    • ^This

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    • Let's recap here, let's go back about four to five years in manga time. Timeskip notwithstanding, Sasha's death was literally teased in her last onscreen battle in the saga, and that was the Battle of Shiganshina when she was pelted with shrapnel. And that was sure played up like she was not going to make it, especially since Jean took similar injuries but never lost consciousness about it. So in what is literally her next battle, Liberio, she's dead. Twenty-odd chapters later when the Corps are totally AWOL from the story. 

      I cannot be the only person incensed that this is how they chose to go about springing the next death card. I think it would've made more sense for Connie, who was not seriously injured in that battle, to have taken Sasha's place in this one. Not have the girl who stared death in the face be felled by it in her next immediate appearance. Why didn't Isayama just kill her back then? Again, shock value death, that seems to be the main priority of why this is happening now. Especially since half the people we see crying over Sasha between these two chapters did not have clearly defined or thoroughly explored relationships with her, when there were seventy chapters that could've amended that. Please comment. 

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    • Any complaints about Sasha's (lack of) character, (lack of) story presence, and (lack of) clearly defined emotional ties to the rest of the cast can be tied to the fact that she was supposed to die in chapter 36. And it's not like her death was something that had been planned, but was then reworked with ample time, it was something that literally came about at the last second. Her death chapter was finished, and then the ending was re-written days before the chapter was to be published. Considering how tightly Isayama seems to have this series plotted, a major change like that isn't something that can just be sandwiched in without unfortunate repurcussions to Sasha's character, as evidenced by the fact that she literally disappeared from the story for close to 15 chapters following chapter 36's publication. And from chapter 51 onwards, she was stuck in a story that no longer needed her, with characters and in situations that Isayama hadn't planned for her to be apart of. You can't blame him for not putting her to good use after keeping her alive, you can only blame him for choosing to keep her around in the first place.

      Moving on from that, I actually agree that it would have been better for Sasha to die in Shiganshina. That arc was and still is my least favorite in the series because it kept teasing that the main characters were in actual danger without actually delivering, and having Sasha die of her injuries would have gone a long way to rectify that.

      The bottom line is that, in my opinion, Sasha was long past her expiration date in this series, and although I agree that her death was executed oddly, and every scene with any character other than Connie mourning for her rings hollow, I think it's better to take a piece off the game board if you're not going to use it, rather than simply taking up space by leaving it sitting unattended.

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    • Whoa, what are you talking about? 

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    • What I blame him for is not making more of an effort to give them all, not just Sasha, more of a purpose and more time to flesh out. Frankly, Eren is a pretty shallow character. 

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    • Wait, Neetaku.........Ignore that question, you're talking about Chapter 37, not Chapter 105, I got it backwards. 

      As for the rest of what you said.........I vehemently disagree with you. 

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    • On an unrelated note, I don't know why Eren's new look in Chapter 106 was such a big deal but whoo boy......Thank God he no longer has the Jesus do going on. He looked so off with it. 

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    • Doesn't matter whether Sasha's death happen in the battle of Shiganshina or Liberio, because it both would be such a disappointment, really, her supposed death back in clash of titan arc is always the best way for her to die. I swear, I don't know how it would turn out but just by thinking of it would already send a chill down my spine, It would be one of the best death scene in the entire series, probably at the same level of Carla's death.

      Just imagine it, Sasha a daughter of a hunter who was an excessive food hoarder, she set out of her village to learn about the world around her because she wants to prove herself to her father. Her father wants Sasha to be a selfless person who would help other people,and to show her the world is connected, and that is exactly what she becomes ... She sacrifice her own life to save another life, a child's life.

      This is what keeps playing in my mind, Sasha succeeded in blinding the titan but unable to escape from its grasp, struggling to get away from its jaw but knowing that her resistance is futile, she got herself torn apart slowly and painfully, screaming in agony. Meanwhile the rescue group led by Sasha's father take the child to safety, Sasha's father heard the screaming and quickly recognise the voice, the same voice that he hasn't been hearing for 3 years, he rushes to its source and witness the horrifying scene unfolds before his eyes, yet unable to do anything to help his daughter, just simply standing there, watching in silence until the scream is muted, and the young lady that was once his cunning, bright daughter is no more than just a bloody, lifeless form that has been teared apart... What would he feel, would it be bittersweet, pride, or just a pure pang of regret, for all he knew Sasha has become the person he's always been hoping for

      (I don't know why but I find myself to be extremely satisfied with this, if only it'd really happen)

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    • I feel sorry for all potatoes' lovers that is reading this, haha, I feel like I just make the hell freezes over

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    • Seriously, dude? 

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    • How about this? The man actually making use of her after giving her that extension? And actually taking advantage of what was shaping up to be one hell of a comeback for her and the other guys at Liberio after the timeskip? 

      Have Connie take her place, seriously, what's his role? We don't even hear about his Titanized mother. Roaring Rampage of Revenge by Connie Springer? Nope, we're still left to wonder why that was never a thing! And if I know the man at all, it'll continue to be treated passively until Connie's own end. Connie was invisible during the Liberio battle. Whereas Sasha actually scored the shot that brought down a Shifter. 

      The scene easily could've been written with Connie in Sasha's shoes. Easily. Not that having either offed is anything desirable. You know that Connie will still not be much more than window dressing even after this. And if it's otherwise, that's pretty insulting since neither of these two had been treated as much more than that for such a long time before Liberio. Jean to a lesser extent as well. 

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    • Dude who turned his family and village into Titans is still alive, there's still some plot with those two.

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    • Connie's role is slightly more important than Sasha, the impact on Connie's life is more than any of Sasha's, he lost an entire village, his life before enlisting is all gone while Sasha can still see her father. There must be some purpose of why Connie is still given the permission to keep his head, I'm not sure what it is but I'm sure we will see it soon. Besides...I like Connie

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    • I say it would've been far more dramatic if Sasha's misstep got him killed (Along with Lobov) and she had to confront the consequences of it. Especially with her MO of never harming a kid. Sasha is the more interesting character and one who still had a lot going for her even if the personal stakes weren't as high as Connie's, a character where Isayama has placed no emphasis on the weight of his aforementioned losses at any point since that day in Ragako. Why should I believe his role is going to be given much more weight from here on out even after last month's abomination? Like I said, for a commanding officer, even Jean has received nothing up until his actions in Liberio, and Ymir was utterly worthless to the story in the end when they decided she was to give up her Titan to the Marley. Benefit of the doubt is not something I can extend any longer. 

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    • What exactly did Sasha have going for her that justifies keeping her alive? Try as I might, I can't think of anything that makes her necessary to the plot of the story. Granted, I can't think of anything for Connie either, but that just goes to show why I think that both of them should have been killed at Liberio.

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    • Well, we have a fact the she was a comic relief character, which makes her nigh-deathproof. 

      And people liked her. A lot.

      And she even became a meme.

      Not much weight in the plot, but a lot of weight where it matters: in the hearts of readers.

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    • I'm still not sure where this idea that comic relief characters are untouchable came from, but even so, I'll stick to my argument that Sasha was no longer effective as comic relief, having effectively been replaced by Hange (and, in his own sardonic way, Levi) as the comic relief character.

      Lots of characters who have fans die. Erwin placed number 1 in the most recent popularity poll conducted, and he's dead. Marco and the original Squad Levi still have tons of fans, but they're all gone. And even if Sasha does have fans, I've noticed that her death hasn't had the effect on fandom that you and Fire Eater are claiming it did. The reactions I've seen on the wiki and on the Discord have been fairly amiable, with the most severe reactions being along the lines of "I cried when I read the chapter," but nothing beyond that. No one is threatening to boycott the series because Sasha of all people died.

      I don't see how becoming a meme makes you untouchable. There are Titans that have become internet memes, and we don't get bent out of shape when she dies.

      I agree, Sasha didn't have much weight in the plot, which is where it matters. If you don't have weight in a story, then there's no point in continuing to take up space that could go to developing more important characters, or to introducing interesting new characters.

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    • I never said that being a meme makes her untouchable: just that it made her popular. 

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    • Helel ben Shahaar wrote:
      Well, we have a fact the she was a comic relief character, which makes her nigh-deathproof. 

      And people liked her. A lot.

      And she even became a meme.

      Not much weight in the plot, but a lot of weight where it matters: in the hearts of readers.

      There, we don't need overly complex analysis on the level of Freud to make a point, she was a character a lot of us loved and who provided badly needed relief between all the cannibalistic rampages onscreen. 

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    • I will take it as a huge insult if Isayama suddenly decides after nearly seventy chapters that he's gonna give Connie some value as a secondary character and yet refused to do the same for Sasha in her seventy-chapter extension. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Helel ben Shahaar wrote:
      Well, we have a fact the she was a comic relief character, which makes her nigh-deathproof. 

      And people liked her. A lot.

      And she even became a meme.

      Not much weight in the plot, but a lot of weight where it matters: in the hearts of readers.

      There, we don't need overly complex analysis on the level of Freud to make a point, she was a character a lot of us loved and who provided badly needed relief between all the cannibalistic rampages onscreen. 

      I'm just gonna post a shorter version of my previous response.

      Sasha was no longer effective as comic relief, having effectively been replaced by Hange (and, in his own sardonic way, Levi) as the comic relief character.

      Lots of characters who have fans die. Erwin placed number 1 in the most recent popularity poll conducted, and he's dead. Marco and the original Squad Levi still have tons of fans, but they're all gone. And even if Sasha does have fans, I've noticed that her death hasn't had the effect on fandom that you are claiming it did.

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    • Neetaku wrote:
      I'm still not sure where this idea that comic relief characters are untouchable came from, but even so, I'll stick to my argument that Sasha was no longer effective as comic relief, having effectively been replaced by Hange (and, in his own sardonic way, Levi) as the comic relief character.

      Lots of characters who have fans die. Erwin placed number 1 in the most recent popularity poll conducted, and he's dead. Marco and the original Squad Levi still have tons of fans, but they're all gone. And even if Sasha does have fans, I've noticed that her death hasn't had the effect on fandom that you and Fire Eater are claiming it did. The reactions I've seen on the wiki and on the Discord have been fairly amiable, with the most severe reactions being along the lines of "I cried when I read the chapter," but nothing beyond that. No one is threatening to boycott the series because Sasha of all people died.

      I don't see how becoming a meme makes you untouchable. There are Titans that have become internet memes, and we don't get bent out of shape when she dies.

      I agree, Sasha didn't have much weight in the plot, which is where it matters. If you don't have weight in a story, then there's no point in continuing to take up space that could go to developing more important characters, or to introducing interesting new characters.

      Still in vehement disagreement, lots of characters who are considered minor or secondary become huge beloveds in these fandoms, dude. And Sasha after having had her death teased in her previous onscreen battle deserved to last a while more, timeskip be damned. There's zero crime in keeping a few less critical characters hanging around. 

      Why are we focused on a bunch of brats from Marley anyway? They ain't the mains, Reiner is from the Marley side, we're shifting focus to a new bunch for twenty plus chapters who have been shoehorned into this with no prior hinting of the relevance? Even Marley on a whole is a total 180 from the post-apocalyptic tale this no longer is. 

      And good luck filling the huge vacuum in the female half of the ensemble now. You got Mikasa and Hange. Possibly Yelena. You got Annie and Historia who have not been permanent focuses for an eternity and we got that murderer Gabi? The calls for her to pay the ultimate price for what she did........You don't have to look far for them. 

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    • Sasha was not the defining character in the female half of the cast. Yes, there is more space now, but her loss is not a huge vacuum. Losing Mikasa would be a huge vacuum, because she's an omnipresent character who has been with Eren since the beginning. But Eren rarely (if ever) interacts with Sasha outside of the group and it's largely Eren's story we're following. He's the protagonist.

      Big voids are created when someone important to him is lost. And while he's sad Sasha is dead, Eren and Sasha didn't have the kind of bond where losing her would have been on the level of losing Mikasa or Armin, both of which would "huge vacuum" characters if they died.

      I know you're going to disagree, but think the best thing would be for Gabi and Eren to sit down together and see where the cycle of violence is getting them, because right now Gabi just went through her Fall of Shiganshina and Eren was the Colossal Titan. Payback isn't working for anybody.

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    • It may not be a huge vacuum to him. But it's a big one to a lot of us. That's a big difference. Isayama made no effort to develop a relationship between the two, Eren is simply the guy who got her killed for his own selfish ends. That's all their relationship is as of now. Half of the reactions are so disingenuine because no effort was made to establish that web of relationships. Do you see where my issues with this "masterpiece" manga is stemming from? Right now you got a protagonist falling squarely into villainous territory and nobody can make any decision on when Reiner will finally do or die, but why haven't the rest of the major names been given any affection in all these years worth of chapters? 

      Payback is all this brat deserves. Good luck rubbing out the fact that this kid is a popular main character's murderer. That's a stigma that will remain no matter what they do next. Not just in-universe but for the remainder of this blasted franchise. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      It may not be a huge vacuum to him. But it's a big one to a lot of us.

      It's great that you love Sasha, and I realize that she had her fans, but you seem to be projecting your own feelings onto the fandom as a whole. Sasha does have her fans, but she is no where near the breakout star that you would imply she is. You can see as much from the series' most recent popularity poll. At the end of the day, I just do not see what makes Sasha indispensable to this series. It's a bit telling to how little she actually factored in that I could take her out of the series at any point in the story and not effect that overall plot in any way.

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    • I didn't imply that, but I do find her indispensible, her lightheartedness was a necessity here. I really hoped for a lot more, maybe Isayama saw her as nothing more than a death card, but he didn't appreciate what he could've done with her. And so many others in this cast, again I'm going to repeat my assertions on Ymir's role in this story because that was arguably an even worse case than Sasha. She had no part to play, anybody could've done her work in getting Historia to find her place as the rightful heir to the Walldian throne, literally anybody else. It's this kind of crap I hate from this "Anyone Can Die" saga. And I feel that so much was wasted by killing Sasha. And whatever he value as a character, I see no sense in a debate over why we should or apparently should not feel bad about a character's passing, in this case Sasha. Personally, I've NEVER come across a character death that made me feel so sickened as this. That may just be me, but let me tell you that I am not exaggerating when I tell you I felt nauseated. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      I didn't imply that, but I do find her indispensible, her lightheartedness was a necessity here. I really hoped for a lot more, maybe Isayama saw her as nothing more than a death card, but he didn't appreciate what he could've done with her. And so many others in this cast, again I'm going to repeat my assertions on Ymir's role in this story because that was arguably an even worse case than Sasha. She had no part to play, anybody could've done her work in getting Historia to find her place as the rightful heir to the Walldian throne, literally anybody else. It's this kind of crap I hate from this "Anyone Can Die" saga. And I feel that so much was wasted by killing Sasha. And whatever he value as a character, I see no sense in a debate over why we should or apparently should not feel bad about a character's passing, in this case Sasha. Personally, I've NEVER come across a character death that made me feel so sickened as this. That may just be me, but let me tell you that I am not exaggerating when I tell you I felt nauseated. 

      Hange easily fills the "light-hearted" role (as could be seen in this chapter) and, in my opinion, works better not just as a comedic relief character, but as a character in general than Sasha.

      It's ironic that you bring up Ymir, since she and Sasha were originally intended to be the same character before Isayama decided to split them in two (maybe that one composite character would have solved any problems). I would have to disagree that Ymir had no role in the story, given the fact that you just described what her role in the story was. Her role was to motivate Historia to accept her role as queen of the Walls. And she was literally the only character that could have accomplished this, as she was the only character who had built such a close relationship with Historia to influence her decisions in any meaningful way. No other character would have been able to talk Historia into that because no other character had the repertoire with her that Ymir did.

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    • What's wrong with having Sasha, man? I'm sorry if she isn't the most plot critical, but seriously, what was wrong with it? I take more issue with how little advantage this author took of her and of the other characters I've named in my previous replies. That I think is a more real issue than what we're debating right now. 

      He had over SEVENTY chapters to do it. Same with Jean, Connie, etc. 

      There's nothing that pisses me off more than a writer who can't make any effort on character development outside of a select few. And I've seen other shows where the same offense would make this manga blush. 

      And that was it. Do you not think that was something that could've easily been fulfilled by anybody else? You're talking to me about how you find Sasha worthless but you'll say that was sufficient for Ymir? Give Historia a few brave words and then go die for the people who stole her humanity? I think the clearer conclusion is that both went to waste. That's how I see it. 

      The "only", I could not disagree with you more. There was so much more to be done with Ymir and her Jaw Titan and instead it all gets passed off to that Marley brat Porco, who was nobody before the Marley reveal. I'm not seeing where you're coming from on whatever points you're making here. 

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    • You want to know why I think Ymir is worth more than Sasha to the story? Because Ymir was used correctly. Isayama knew when to make use of her, and he knew exactly when he no longer needed her for the story. Ymir was a plot device, plain and simple, and her purpose was to elevate Historia in the narrative. And if Historia knows, or comes to find out in the future, that Galliard ate Ymir, then I have a feeling that Ymir will continue to play a posthumous role as a motivator for Historia to try to avenge her. I can't say anything like that about Sasha.

      I don't think there was anything else to be done with Ymir. She served her narrative purpose, and she did it well. And beyond that, she felt like a legitimate addition to the main cast, and her interplay with other members of the 104th in the Clash of the Titans arc is some of my favorite in the series. She had clear, defined ties to the other characters, and she had relationships with people besides Historia (the most apparent ones being Reiner and Connie). Ymir was a character with a clear purpose in the overall story; giving Historia the confidence to reject her past and forge her own way in life. And not only did she accomplish that goal, but she was able to make a name for herself in the fandom due to how good her writing was, and she had the good grace (and Isayama the good sense) to bow out once her arc and her role was completed, ensuring that she would not overstay her welcome and be subjected to the same predicament that Sasha found herself in for almost 70 chapters.

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    • Sorry, but I do not agree with you, I feel Ymir was a horrible waste. I think so much was lost between both girls on what could've been done with them, and I am not a fan of the notion that just because the author just those particular moments for them to die that they were "used up". That's a philosophy I do not believe in. And if it's partially fueled by personal bias, I do not believe that's a terrible thing, but it's also fueled by what I have seen from both and what myself and certainly others may have also expected from both. I do not resign myself to what this author, or what any author if we wanna talk on more base terms, chooses to do in the end as far as ending one character's arc. I think any number of characters, no single character, could've easily filled in Ymir's role with no major difference in the flow of the story. And I'm not seeing why that's a far-fetched notion. Limiting Ymir to Historia was in my opinion, an unfortunate call. Her death, in my opinion, invalidated herself. We obviously have very different perceptions on what is "good" writing. All I can say is I am not content to resign myself to what the author does, and he won't be the last author who's methods I must criticize. Ymir, the Jaw Titan, should've done so much more as a Shifter and as the falsified goddess she was molded into. In my opinion, I don't see what weight any of it carries in the end. That is my take on her, and I am going to step back content in my disagreement over the fates and the carried potential of both women. We're gonna have to disagree and leave it at that. 

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    • Everything lacking about the less-important characters  such as, purpose, appearance, and development is probably because  of the fact that Isayama wants to end this manga as quick as he can. The truth is, the manga is not supposed to be this long, it has long pass its original expiration date (much like Sasha herself) remember the chapter where isayama revealed the truth of the world? It was so much thrown away all at once that it raised many confusions, some of us actually got a headache to fully comprehend it

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    • Yes I've heard about the fact that he's rushing this thing so many times, and that he makes this up as he goes, and I don't know how much of this is even true or not. 

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    • Okay, since I've already lost four years on this, I am gonna ask.......What exactly was Eren trying to accomplish? Did his one-man assault simply accelerate the Corps' plan for attacking Liberio? They were gonna come for Zeke anyway right? With Eren part of the plan? Why did he go AWOL and do it alone? And what was he accomplishing by consciously taking Willy Tybur's bait and massacring civilians? Did Eren simply force the Corps' plans into motion early or am I missing something? Because I need to know why this SOB had to go and get eight comrades killed. I'd like to see what in the narrative "justifies" his attack ahead of the Corps and Zeke's plans. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote: Okay, since I've already lost four years on this, I am gonna ask.......What exactly was Eren trying to accomplish? Did his one-man assault simply accelerate the Corps' plan for attacking Liberio? They were gonna come for Zeke anyway right? With Eren part of the plan? Why did he go AWOL and do it alone? And what was he accomplishing by consciously taking Willy Tybur's bait and massacring civilians? Did Eren simply force the Corps' plans into motion early or am I missing something? Because I need to know why this SOB had to go and get eight comrades killed. I'd like to see what in the narrative "justifies" his attack ahead of the Corps and Zeke's plans. 

       Well it is stated in CH. 105 that the Survey Corps are pretty pissed at Eren and lost a lot of trust in him, that is one consequence.
      
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    • Tdfern14
      Tdfern14 removed this reply because:
      Error
      05:13, June 21, 2018
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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Fire Eater wrote: Okay, since I've already lost four years on this, I am gonna ask.......What exactly was Eren trying to accomplish? Did his one-man assault simply accelerate the Corps' plan for attacking Liberio? They were gonna come for Zeke anyway right? With Eren part of the plan? Why did he go AWOL and do it alone? And what was he accomplishing by consciously taking Willy Tybur's bait and massacring civilians? Did Eren simply force the Corps' plans into motion early or am I missing something? Because I need to know why this SOB had to go and get eight comrades killed. I'd like to see what in the narrative "justifies" his attack ahead of the Corps and Zeke's plans. 

      Well it is stated in CH. 105 that the Survey Corps are pretty pissed at Eren and lost a lot of trust in him, that is one consequence.

      So there was no justified reason for him to jump ahead on that. That's what I thought. Lemme just say that Captain Levi should not stop with one kick with this traitor. 

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    • This cannot fly. We should petition against the events of these last two chapters so that they don't come anywhere near the anime. The damage done to the manga is going to soon be realized from the card Isayama elected to pull, and he's destroyed most of what chance he had to force sympathy for a character like Gabi who the fandom already detested well before Crapter 105. The anime deviates way too little from the manga from all that I have seen, but this is definitely one place where it should outright ignore the manga. It's disgusting that the story really came to this point, I say the hell with that........it needs to be reworked. Bigtime. 

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    • For the actual constructive point in there about Gabi, I think that it will make sympathizing harder for some people. For most though, over time the backlash against her will fade when they've had time to calm down and consider her perspective. Much like has already happened for a lot of people.

      We all know the anime isn't going to deviate there, and frankly, a lot of us will be annoyed if it does. While it was sad to see Sasha killed, a lot of us wanted confirmation that Isayama was still prepared to pull the trigger after the ridiculous amount of plot armor there's been. The last time a "goody" member of the top 10 died was Marco in ch.18.

      I'm not trying to be rude, but it's been a month and a half. It's time to calm down. If you want to continue criticising, then stop with the dramatics.

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    • Look, all those "plot armor" complaints, why do they even stand? We watch these guys to prevail, not to die, don't we? Isn't that what we hope for? Because frankly, if we had time to complain about what seemed like "ridiculous plot armor", something's wrong here. Losing one of the only lighthearted elements in this series and a character who didn't reach her full potential is an unacceptable maneuver, Isayama will not be treated as an exception here, sorry. This is not going to service the story in any way that couldn't have been satisfied by other means, and it firmly cements Gabi as not only nigh-irredeemable as far as her previous acts go, but also squarely places Eren in the villainous circle. There's no peace with either the Titans or the Yeagers being left alive. There's a shadow here cast by 105 and whether it's a month and a half, a year, five years, whenever this ends, it's a shadow. It will remain. And I very much doubt for the better, this thing needed Sasha. Sickening that this was the time he chose to go that far. 

      Four years following this. I'm taking the insult very personally. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Look, all those "plot armor" complaints, why do they even stand? We watch these guys to prevail, not to die, don't we? Isn't that what we hope for? Because frankly, if we had time to complain about what seemed like "ridiculous plot armor", something's wrong here. Losing one of the only lighthearted elements in this series and a character who didn't reach her full potential is an unacceptable maneuver, Isayama will not be treated as an exception here, sorry. This is not going to service the story in any way that couldn't have been satisfied by other means, and it firmly cements Gabi as not only nigh-irredeemable as far as her previous acts go, but also squarely places Eren in the villainous circle. There's no peace with either the Titans or the Yeagers being left alive. There's a shadow here cast by 105 and whether it's a month and a half, a year, five years, whenever this ends, it's a shadow. It will remain. And I very much doubt for the better, this thing needed Sasha. Sickening that this was the time he chose to go that far. 

      Four years following this. I'm taking the insult very personally. 

      While I do believe that Fire Eater here took this just a tad too personally, I agree with all that he said. All things considered, moves that Isayama decided to make in these last few chapters are really, really stupid: from making Gabi (who I actually sorta liked) into a nigh-irredemable character, Eren turning to the dark side of the Force, Warhammer Titan (who was hyped to over heaven) being killed just like that, Paradisians being turned into bloodthirsty raiders, to the most severe of all, killing Sasha.

      Literally, any character could've died in her place. Frankly, I think that Gabi shooting Levi (even if non-lethaly) would've made a much greater point. Shoot him in the spine, take away his legs and cripple the Paradisians to horrifying extent. Would've still carried same - if not greater - weight, and it would still keep Gabi in the boundaries of likeable characters.

      This way, Isayama ruined at least 3 characters beyond repair: Gabi and Eren (by making them into murderers), and Sasha (by removing her from the picture forever).

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    • Helel ben Shahaar wrote:

      Literally, any character could've died in her place. Frankly, I think that Gabi shooting Levi (even if non-lethaly) would've made a much greater point. Shoot him in the spine, take away his legs and cripple the Paradisians to horrifying extent. Would've still carried same - if not greater - weight, and it would still keep Gabi in the boundaries of likeable characters.

      This way, Isayama ruined at least 3 characters beyond repair: Gabi and Eren (by making them into murderers), and Sasha (by removing her from the picture forever).

      I would have loved to see Gabi shoot Levi. A crippled Levi who could no longer fight when he's a character defined by his amazing combat abilities would be an interesting change in direction and would have had more impact on the story than killing Sasha, who wasn't important to the plot at all.

      But I don't think Gabi is irredeemable. I've started to like her more in recent chapters, and especially in chapter 105, even though that's the same chapter she kills Sasha. Gabi makes it very clear she is doing this to protect the people she cares about, and because she wants a better life for all the Eldians in Marley. (That's exactly why I tried so hard...I wanted to prove to the world...that Eldians were good.) Sasha just happens to be on the other side of the war and Gabi doesn't know her side of the story.

      The only reason Gabi killing Sasha is "bad" is because we happen to know Sasha. But she's on Paradis now, so we know that Gabi, like Reiner, Bert, and Annie before her, will come to learn that the people of Paradis aren't as evil as believed. She'll regret killing Sasha at that point and likely team up with everyone, especially since Zeke's already in their court and she respects him.

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    • Sorry Levi fans but he's destined to die before this is done, I'm 99% sure of this. This would've been a sensible spot for it. I agree with Helel here. 

      Gabi's not escaping the shadow of having killed Potato Girl, because that's the kind of thing a fandom doesn't let anyone forget. She'll be no exception. Nothing she learns or says can make up for it. Too bad she didn't listen to Falco. 

      Officially anti-Eren now, I legit want to see him bite the dust or suffer horribly first before that time comes. 

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    • Helel ben Shahaar wrote:
       

      This way, Isayama ruined at least 3 characters beyond repair: Gabi and Eren (by making them into murderers), and Sasha (by removing her from the picture forever).

      Eren was already a murderer: he was responsible for Bertolt's death (the same way he was responsible for Sasha's death), he got a lot of civilians killed in Stohess while fighting Annie, he kept killing Titans even after it was revealed that Titans were actually humans who were forcibly turned into Titans, and I didn't hear anyone saying his character was "ruined" when he tore Willy Tybur to pieces, or crushed Zofia (a child) with a boulder. Eren's been killing people for a long time, and just because he happened to mess up and get a character who had a few more fans than your average redshirt (but still wasn't as popular as Mike Zacharias) killed doesn't "ruin" his character.

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    • Fire Eater wrote: Look, all those "plot armor" complaints, why do they even stand? We watch these guys to prevail, not to die, don't we? Isn't that what we hope for? Because frankly, if we had time to complain about what seemed like "ridiculous plot armor", something's wrong here. Losing one of the only lighthearted elements in this series and a character who didn't reach her full potential is an unacceptable maneuver, Isayama will not be treated as an exception here, sorry. This is not going to service the story in any way that couldn't have been satisfied by other means, and it firmly cements Gabi as not only nigh-irredeemable as far as her previous acts go, but also squarely places Eren in the villainous circle. There's no peace with either the Titans or the Yeagers being left alive. There's a shadow here cast by 105 and whether it's a month and a half, a year, five years, whenever this ends, it's a shadow. It will remain. And I very much doubt for the better, this thing needed Sasha. Sickening that this was the time he chose to go that far. 

      Four years following this. I'm taking the insult very personally. 

      Genuine question. Do you find the main characters surviving while hundreds of red shirts kick the bucket to be good writing? I don't. It breaks my immersion to see several nameless characters killed in battle, yet every main character survives the ordeal. I dislike when Isayama hammers home the point about the massive sacrifices the Survey Corps have made when I rarely feel anybody of note has been lost at all. It's nice watching our dudes win, but in this manga, when everyone is safe it lowers the interest. Particularly when we are expected to feel tension for the character's episodic brushes with death.

      Agreed that Sasha was not fully utilized as a character. It's clear Isayama had no idea what to do with her for ages now. Killing her isn't genius writing, but if he had no ideas, its probably better than her standing blankly in the background till the last chapter.

      Anyhow, this is exactly what I was saying about being over dramatic. I'm not insulting you, but you feel the need to make the atmosphere hostile. Once again, calm down.

      Oh, and agreed that crippled Levi would probably be a more interesting path, especially for removing the most op element from combat.

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    • Once again, RuneLai and Kemono say what I've been trying to better than I could have!

      As much as I want to see Levi die, I'd take him being crippled just for the image of Zeke trading insults with a wheelchair-bound Levi. My only problem with it is that I know Isayama's track record with these kind of things. And I'm pretty sure he named Captain America: Civil War as one of his favorite movies of 2016. So I have no doubt that he would do what Civil War did and immediately write in a reason for Levi to be able to walk again.

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    • KemonoTitan wrote:

      Do you find the main characters surviving while hundreds of red shirts kick the bucket to be good writing? I don't. It breaks my immersion to see several nameless characters killed in battle, yet every main character survives the ordeal.

      This. All of this. Having all the main characters survive every single encounter due to fan popularity is boring and the story suffers as a result (looking at you, Daryl Dixon from the Walking Dead.) Making all the characters open to the possibility of getting severely wounded or killed gives the story an air of unpredictability and keeps it fresh as a result. Seeing Marco die way back in Trost was a welcome surprise since he was being groomed, along with the rest of the 104th, as a main character; plus, that made Jean go through a character shift from a self-centered jerk into a capable leader in his own right. Same thing with Sasha; sure, it was jarring and quite a shock to see her killed but that opens up several pathways for Connie (becoming more reckless in future battles, going after Eren in revenge for causing her death, etc.) Plus, it also makes room for new characters to grow and step up to take their place.

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    • KemonoTitan wrote:

      Fire Eater wrote: Look, all those "plot armor" complaints, why do they even stand? We watch these guys to prevail, not to die, don't we? Isn't that what we hope for? Because frankly, if we had time to complain about what seemed like "ridiculous plot armor", something's wrong here. Losing one of the only lighthearted elements in this series and a character who didn't reach her full potential is an unacceptable maneuver, Isayama will not be treated as an exception here, sorry. This is not going to service the story in any way that couldn't have been satisfied by other means, and it firmly cements Gabi as not only nigh-irredeemable as far as her previous acts go, but also squarely places Eren in the villainous circle. There's no peace with either the Titans or the Yeagers being left alive. There's a shadow here cast by 105 and whether it's a month and a half, a year, five years, whenever this ends, it's a shadow. It will remain. And I very much doubt for the better, this thing needed Sasha. Sickening that this was the time he chose to go that far. 

      Four years following this. I'm taking the insult very personally. 

      Genuine question. Do you find the main characters surviving while hundreds of red shirts kick the bucket to be good writing? I don't. It breaks my immersion to see several nameless characters killed in battle, yet every main character survives the ordeal. I dislike when Isayama hammers home the point about the massive sacrifices the Survey Corps have made when I rarely feel anybody of note has been lost at all. It's nice watching our dudes win, but in this manga, when everyone is safe it lowers the interest. Particularly when we are expected to feel tension for the character's episodic brushes with death.

      Agreed that Sasha was not fully utilized as a character. It's clear Isayama had no idea what to do with her for ages now. Killing her isn't genius writing, but if he had no ideas, its probably better than her standing blankly in the background till the last chapter.

      Anyhow, this is exactly what I was saying about being over dramatic. I'm not insulting you, but you feel the need to make the atmosphere hostile. Once again, calm down.

      Oh, and agreed that crippled Levi would probably be a more interesting path, especially for removing the most op element from combat.

      I find that killing underdeveloped main characters and creating so many characters solely as redshirts as Isayama has done to be TERRIBLE writing going both ways. I'm quite furious about both. I probably wouldn't lose too much sleep if Levi bit the dust now and most certainly not if Reiner finally gets it, but I was furious over the losses of Ymir and Sasha, and the fact that Annie was a no-show for what, eighty chapters is just further evidence of this writing-by-the-seat-of-their-pants approach. There's a lot to take issue with, and you know that I do. Frankly I could not give a damn about these guys wearing plot armor if more named characters had not been strictly redshirts. And we know Isayama hates Sasha, she never had armor. He was just biding his time to sic his hounds onto that section of the fandom. I couldn't give a damn if they never die dude, I valued every chapter where somebody did not. Unless they were a Marley dog, anyway. 

      Hey, I'd rather take her standing in the back to having her dead. Seeing her in action in Liberio was exciting, for it to end like that, right there, after having her death teased in her previous battle........That feels like an insult. Stunts like that.......I expect that from somebody on Fanfiction.net. 


      I would but you just don't know how much I hoped Sasha wouldn't die now. She was way too good to be a product of THIS manga. So how do I feel anything other than bitterness about it? I sure was not watching this for Eren. Not even Levi, cool as he may be. 

      Sorry again to the Levi fans, but this scenario easily could've been set up to service that outcome too. 

      I do not get this mentality of WANTING these guys to die just for some cheap shocks. Especially among the circle of people who could be way more, but never get there because of the lack of imagination in the guy writing them, or rather not writing for them as he seems too content to do while introducing a bunch of brats from an out-of-nowhere-country who have no business stealing the focus of this mindscrew story. Don't get me started on that monster Gabi again. 

      Nobody can take Sasha's place. Nobody can replace Sasha. That approach is only going to add to the insult if that is the attitude to which he continues to approach his most ill-advised move in over a year's time. It's not like Isayama gives a crap about Connie anyway, who doesn't even have the benefit of being a meme character like Sasha was. Honestly, just leave the comedic duo alone, but seeing how he's already busted that one up......Nothing beyond Crapter 105 matters now. 

      This is a huge waste of time, an insulting and disingenuous tearjerker that I know was borne out of the author's disregard for this much-loved character......And I am no longer invested. I followed for four years, this is the payoff for it? I've taken a LOT of issues with how Isayama has written this, I have not even touched the anime in a long while, and I don't wanna be around for when he repeats the exact same insult frame by frame, word for word.  There's no merit to any of this at all owing to how dishonest and manipulative the whole thing actually was when you stop to analyze it. Some of you here have said yourselves he doesn't know what to do with half of these guys........We do got something fundamentally flawed here and it needs to be addressed. Too bad the damage is done. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      KemonoTitan wrote:

      Fire Eater wrote: Look, all those "plot armor" complaints, why do they even stand? We watch these guys to prevail, not to die, don't we? Isn't that what we hope for? Because frankly, if we had time to complain about what seemed like "ridiculous plot armor", something's wrong here. Losing one of the only lighthearted elements in this series and a character who didn't reach her full potential is an unacceptable maneuver, Isayama will not be treated as an exception here, sorry. This is not going to service the story in any way that couldn't have been satisfied by other means, and it firmly cements Gabi as not only nigh-irredeemable as far as her previous acts go, but also squarely places Eren in the villainous circle. There's no peace with either the Titans or the Yeagers being left alive. There's a shadow here cast by 105 and whether it's a month and a half, a year, five years, whenever this ends, it's a shadow. It will remain. And I very much doubt for the better, this thing needed Sasha. Sickening that this was the time he chose to go that far. 

      Four years following this. I'm taking the insult very personally. 

      Genuine question. Do you find the main characters surviving while hundreds of red shirts kick the bucket to be good writing? I don't. It breaks my immersion to see several nameless characters killed in battle, yet every main character survives the ordeal. I dislike when Isayama hammers home the point about the massive sacrifices the Survey Corps have made when I rarely feel anybody of note has been lost at all. It's nice watching our dudes win, but in this manga, when everyone is safe it lowers the interest. Particularly when we are expected to feel tension for the character's episodic brushes with death.

      Agreed that Sasha was not fully utilized as a character. It's clear Isayama had no idea what to do with her for ages now. Killing her isn't genius writing, but if he had no ideas, its probably better than her standing blankly in the background till the last chapter.

      Anyhow, this is exactly what I was saying about being over dramatic. I'm not insulting you, but you feel the need to make the atmosphere hostile. Once again, calm down.

      Oh, and agreed that crippled Levi would probably be a more interesting path, especially for removing the most op element from combat.

      I find that killing underdeveloped main characters and creating so many characters solely as redshirts as Isayama has done to be TERRIBLE writing going both ways. I'm quite furious about both. I probably wouldn't lose too much sleep if Levi bit the dust now and most certainly not if Reiner finally gets it, but I was furious over the losses of Ymir and Sasha, and the fact that Annie was a no-show for what, eighty chapters is just further evidence of this writing-by-the-seat-of-their-pants approach. There's a lot to take issue with, and you know that I do. Frankly I could not give a damn about these guys wearing plot armor if more named characters had not been strictly redshirts. And we know Isayama hates Sasha, she never had armor. He was just biding his time to sic his hounds onto that section of the fandom. I couldn't give a damn if they never die dude, I valued every chapter where somebody did not. Unless they were a Marley dog, anyway. 

      Hey, I'd rather take her standing in the back to having her dead. Seeing her in action in Liberio was exciting, for it to end like that, right there, after having her death teased in her previous battle........That feels like an insult. Stunts like that.......I expect that from somebody on Fanfiction.net. 


      I would but you just don't know how much I hoped Sasha wouldn't die now. She was way too good to be a product of THIS manga. So how do I feel anything other than bitterness about it? I sure was not watching this for Eren. Not even Levi, cool as he may be. 

      Sorry again to the Levi fans, but this scenario easily could've been set up to service that outcome too. 

      I do not get this mentality of WANTING these guys to die just for some cheap shocks. Especially among the circle of people who could be way more, but never get there because of the lack of imagination in the guy writing them, or rather not writing for them as he seems too content to do while introducing a bunch of brats from an out-of-nowhere-country who have no business stealing the focus of this mindscrew story. Don't get me started on that monster Gabi again. 

      Nobody can take Sasha's place. Nobody can replace Sasha. That approach is only going to add to the insult if that is the attitude to which he continues to approach his most ill-advised move in over a year's time. It's not like Isayama gives a crap about Connie anyway, who doesn't even have the benefit of being a meme character like Sasha was. Honestly, just leave the comedic duo alone, but seeing how he's already busted that one up......Nothing beyond Crapter 105 matters now. 

      This is a huge waste of time, an insulting and disingenuous tearjerker that I know was borne out of the author's disregard for this much-loved character......And I am no longer invested. I followed for four years, this is the payoff for it? I've taken a LOT of issues with how Isayama has written this, I have not even touched the anime in a long while, and I don't wanna be around for when he repeats the exact same insult frame by frame, word for word.  There's no merit to any of this at all owing to how dishonest and manipulative the whole thing actually was when you stop to analyze it. Some of you here have said yourselves he doesn't know what to do with half of these guys........We do got something fundamentally flawed here and it needs to be addressed. Too bad the damage is done. 

      Hmmm.....I have a slightly different perspective. I agree with you that I don't want characters to die cheap deaths, but there's a fundamental difference between the cheapness of a story and the reality of the world that story inhabits. To us (or at least Fire Eater), Sasha's death feels manipulative and cheap, but to the characters in the story itself, it's a dramatic, unexpected, horrific incident that comes from genuine tragedy. 

      When something occurs in a story, there are two essential questions to be asked. One, does this make sense in the context of the physical story. Two, does this make sense in the context of the EMOTIONAL story. If the event works on both levels, I see no reason to complain. If it fails on both levels, then it's grounds to lower your expectations for the rest of the story, because quality has been compromised. 

      Sasha's death works on a physical level because we know it to be possible. It makes sense within the confines of the world AoT is based in. If Gabi fired a laser beam from her eyes and blew off Sasha's head.....well, you get the idea. 

      The problem with using the second essential question is that it's subjective. Your emotional understanding of the work is different from someone elses. Something that fails to answer your second question could answers someone elses easily. 

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    • As far as I'm concerned, it fails on both. Does not feel like a warranted gut punch or warranted timing, and I do not appreciate the rest of the story proceeding without her presence. If it had to happen, I am very much opposed to how and when they chose to spring this, way too soon as far as I stand, and because she was a heavily neglected character by the man himself, like most of the others are, I find it crass and cruel on his part to be forcing such a tearjerker when he was not even invested in her. So taking her from us now.......Yeah I got nothing nice to say about that. I'm calling it a bad call on both levels. 

      And on that physical count, why was nobody manning the GUN NEST next to the door? Who gets so caught up in a victory celebration when still in the line of enemy fire as everyone on that airship was? I'm not buying it. 

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    • I am not a long standing member of this wiki, so I don't know if a character's death ever raised so much dust. 

      But the fact that this discussion is still ongoing almost 2 months after the deed was done speaks libraries of how Sasha was important to us all. 

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    • Sasha's death is a lie. The entire thing is a lie. So is Ymir's. The entire thing is too damn surreal to be truth. Titan without Sasha? Somebody's been drinking to have actually allowed that to pass. 

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    • Senatedude11: New Fallout coming out!

      All the Senates: YESSSSS

      Senatedude14: How does that relate to percentages?

      Senatedude18: It dosen't but who cares we got work to do!

      Senatedude14: Alright here is the Chapter 107 Percentages for June!

      Annie coming out of the shell: 50%

      Zeke and Eren talking: 90%

      EMA betrayal: 25%

      EMA break up: 34%

      Levi killing Zeke: 8%

      Surprise attack on Paradis: 72%

      Sasha is dead: 1000% (She dead)

      More than 110 chapters: 100%

      Armin seeing Bertolt's memories: 85%

      That's all I got this month if you guys have any more let me know and I'll do a part 2. Anyways See ya later I'll be really busy next month wacthing Anime and Playing the new No Man's Sky Update with actual Multiplayer. Until then Bye!

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    • Okay, seriously, is nobody gonna comment on the fact that nobody was manning the gun on the blimp with Gabi snuck aboard? Why wasn't say Floch pumping lead into the streets below? He's jingoistic enough to do it. 

      Everyone celebrating victory in the warzone and thereby letting one of their own die for it may in fact be one of the LEAST believable things they have ever written or implied in this travesty. Nobody celebrates victory in the middle of enemy territory. 

      Someone on that staff let this guy go ahead with that kind of sequence of events in place. Whatever the case, somebody should be called out on how stupid the scenario actually is. 

      And when is it time for Levi to beat the crap out of Eren again? He cut off his leg to get to Marley, next time it should be his head. 

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    • Okay then. What about this, why is Armin consulting with Annie? Who's both comatose and more importantly, an enemy? What's that gonna achieve despite their supposed connection and the higher probability of her awakening with Zeke on the island? 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Okay then. What about this, why is Armin consulting with Annie? Who's both comatose and more importantly, an enemy? What's that gonna achieve despite their supposed connection and the higher probability of her awakening with Zeke on the island? 

      I read somewhere that Armin might've visited Annie because it was hinted that Bertolt had romantic feelings for Annie, and Armin inherited those memories because of the Colossus Titan. However, it seems rather unlikely to me. It also could've been underneath his own will -- Armin interacted with Annie before she was enveloped in the crystal, and they held a mutual respect for each other. Armin also could've gone to Annie because there was nobody to talk to, and he wanted to just rant about recent events that were going on.

      There are a bunch of other factors that could change as well. Annie's case might also be different compared to Ms. Tybur (who was conscious inside of her crystal). Zeke's true allegiance is still unknown -- it was shown to us in the last chapter that he decided to work with the Survey Corps. He could also be working on his own side, for neither Paradis nor Marley.

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    • And so what is this supposed to be leading towards exactly? 

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    • Well either 1 of 2 ways:

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    • Yes? 

      Pardon my morbid curiosity, that's always a mistake. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Yes? 

      Pardon my morbid curiosity, that's always a mistake. 

      Well even if I make a case here or there you are gonna go on a rant why this is trash or bad writing or whichever.

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    • Thank you. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      And so what is this supposed to be leading towards exactly? 

      I decided to respond to something that wasn't directly related to Sasha's death, because I've seen your laments everywhere for the past two months.

      I also decided to help you with starting a new topic, but if that's not something you want to discuss, that's fine by me. I'll just find somewhere else to actually discuss the most recent chapter instead of arguing over how Sasha's improper death was unfit to the original manga, and the last straw for a manga that is in a spiraling downfall (accelerated by Sasha's death, which lead it to ruined point of no return).

      Let me make myself clear here -- I do NOT want to argue with you over how Sasha's death was a lie, it happened and so it happened. I will agree with you that some of the factors that lead to her death were the product of poor writing on Isayama's part. However, her death was foreshadowed earlier on in the Marley arc (it'd happen sooner or later), and the only reason why she even survived to make an appearance in that arc is because Isayama's editor didn't want her to die back in chapter 36.

      In conclusion, we were all impacted by Sasha's death in some way -- some of us were greatly affected while others expected it. Sasha was important to many people, and her death left quite a few distraught.

      Tl;dr? My message was just simply an attempt to change the subject and talk about something new.

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    • TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      And so what is this supposed to be leading towards exactly? 
      I decided to respond to something that wasn't directly related to Sasha's death, because I've seen your laments everywhere for the past two months.

      I also decided to help you with starting a new topic, but if that's not something you want to discuss, that's fine by me. I'll just find somewhere else to actually discuss the most recent chapter instead of arguing over how Sasha's improper death was unfit to the original manga, and the last straw for a manga that is in a spiraling downfall (accelerated by Sasha's death, which lead it to ruined point of no return).

      Let me make myself clear here -- I do NOT want to argue with you over how Sasha's death was a lie, it happened and so it happened. I will agree with you that some of the factors that lead to her death were the product of poor writing on Isayama's part. However, her death was foreshadowed earlier on in the Marley arc (it'd happen sooner or later), and the only reason why she even survived to make an appearance in that arc is because Isayama's editor didn't want her to die back in chapter 36.

      In conclusion, we were all impacted by Sasha's death in some way -- some of us were greatly affected while others expected it. Sasha was important to many people, and her death left quite a few distraught.

      Tl;dr? My message was just simply an attempt to change the subject and talk about something new.

      I'm not even sure where to go with that. 

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    • TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      And so what is this supposed to be leading towards exactly? 
      I decided to respond to something that wasn't directly related to Sasha's death, because I've seen your laments everywhere for the past two months.

      I also decided to help you with starting a new topic, but if that's not something you want to discuss, that's fine by me. I'll just find somewhere else to actually discuss the most recent chapter instead of arguing over how Sasha's improper death was unfit to the original manga, and the last straw for a manga that is in a spiraling downfall (accelerated by Sasha's death, which lead it to ruined point of no return).

      Let me make myself clear here -- I do NOT want to argue with you over how Sasha's death was a lie, it happened and so it happened. I will agree with you that some of the factors that lead to her death were the product of poor writing on Isayama's part. However, her death was foreshadowed earlier on in the Marley arc (it'd happen sooner or later), and the only reason why she even survived to make an appearance in that arc is because Isayama's editor didn't want her to die back in chapter 36.

      In conclusion, we were all impacted by Sasha's death in some way -- some of us were greatly affected while others expected it. Sasha was important to many people, and her death left quite a few distraught.

      Tl;dr? My message was just simply an attempt to change the subject and talk about something new.

      Since you're looking for a different topic to move onto, how about my theory on an alliance between Paradis and the Mid-East Forces?

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    • TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      And so what is this supposed to be leading towards exactly? 
      I decided to respond to something that wasn't directly related to Sasha's death, because I've seen your laments everywhere for the past two months.

      I also decided to help you with starting a new topic, but if that's not something you want to discuss, that's fine by me. I'll just find somewhere else to actually discuss the most recent chapter instead of arguing over how Sasha's improper death was unfit to the original manga, and the last straw for a manga that is in a spiraling downfall (accelerated by Sasha's death, which lead it to ruined point of no return).

      Let me make myself clear here -- I do NOT want to argue with you over how Sasha's death was a lie, it happened and so it happened. I will agree with you that some of the factors that lead to her death were the product of poor writing on Isayama's part. However, her death was foreshadowed earlier on in the Marley arc (it'd happen sooner or later), and the only reason why she even survived to make an appearance in that arc is because Isayama's editor didn't want her to die back in chapter 36.

      In conclusion, we were all impacted by Sasha's death in some way -- some of us were greatly affected while others expected it. Sasha was important to many people, and her death left quite a few distraught.

      Tl;dr? My message was just simply an attempt to change the subject and talk about something new.

      I redact my earlier statement, I know exactly what I have to say to that. It finally hit me. 

      The only reason Sasha is dead is because Isayama wanted to force more focus onto Gabi Braun. Yes, Gabi Braun, this kid who we are expected to sympathize with after the Marley arc, is Sasha's replacement in the manga. The character who right now is arguably the most hated one in the fandom as of recent, and for totally valid reasons is expected to fill the void. 

      The same way Porco Galliard is Ymir's replacement in the manga. 

      Sasha and Ymir are two of the main supporting characters of this story. NOT  these brats who until what........Chapter 85 or something did not exist. What are they doing axing these girls in favor of a group of kids who are not the true focus of this story? Why is this even necessary at all? The crew of the manga seem to be planning for a turnaround for at least Gabi later but this is staying with the character until she is dead or the manga is over and after 105 it is foolish to expect this sentiment from more than just a few people. Because that stigma will not go away whatever his next move is. 

      So far these Replacement Scrappies are not getting the kind of reaction Isayama must be banking on. Not only is Gabi the most controversial character among the new cast but Porco doesn't seem to be especially popular either, the fact that he ate Ymir is something that hasn't been overlooked either. So far only Falco enjoys a huge fandom among the band, maybe it's because he hasn't killed any fan favorites. Yeah I get it, he's the sensible one, Gabi's the brainwashed one, I know the intent, but if expects us to just forget who he killed off to force the focus over to them, that is not happening. And the story is certainly lesser without Sasha and even Ymir. 

      Being forced to follow Gabi for the remainder of the story after all of that is really adding to the insult, I am sorry. I care no longer for the outcome of this, but I do sincerely hope both Gabi and Eren will not be survivors of this manga. 

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    • At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.

      You okay, bro?

      Need a tissue? A glass of water? A torch and a stake?

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.

      I am in one hundred percent agreement with this statement, I really don't care what happens anymore. After the events of 105, I can't raise anything more than halfhearted concern for any of the other remaining characters. Not because I hate the rest of the main cast, but Sasha was the one I was most invested in, and for the story to continue without her just feels wrong on so many levels. I am not going to attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it, it just feels wrong. I mean I don't even care about what happens to Annie, who's been out of action for just far too long for me to give a damn. For the longest time I was curious about where this was headed but after all this, I'm just done. To care is to set yourself up for heartbreak, which is the only outcome that is ever afforded by this thing, so why bother. Why should we care when we know it's all going to end badly no matter what happens is my point. I can only hope Gabi Braun will suffer in the worst possible way regardless of how her story plays out, she absolutely earned all of the hate she had received. Otherwise I can only say I regret that Eren is still our protagonist. One of the worst in recent anime, any one of the others is far more suited for the role than he is. One site I saw put way more value on Levi as the main hero than Eren, and someone in Japan should've made that the case instead. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.
      I am in one hundred percent agreement with this statement, I really don't care what happens anymore. After the events of 105, I can't raise anything more than halfhearted concern for any of the other remaining characters. Not because I hate the rest of the main cast, but Sasha was the one I was most invested in, and for the story to continue without her just feels wrong on so many levels. I am not going to attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it, it just feels wrong. I mean I don't even care about what happens to Annie, who's been out of action for just far too long for me to give a damn. For the longest time I was curious about where this was headed but after all this, I'm just done. To care is to set yourself up for heartbreak, which is the only outcome that is ever afforded by this thing, so why bother. Why should we care when we know it's all going to end badly no matter what happens is my point. I can only hope Gabi Braun will suffer in the worst possible way regardless of how her story plays out, she absolutely earned all of the hate she had received. Otherwise I can only say I regret that Eren is still our protagonist. One of the worst in recent anime, any one of the others is far more suited for the role than he is. One site I saw put way more value on Levi as the main hero than Eren, and someone in Japan should've made that the case instead. 

      I'll still read/watch the series, of course, it looks like the overall story will finally pick up after the abysmal Marley arc, but as long as Gabi gets the worst death possible, I'm indifferent towards whether the other characters live or die.

      I actually don't hate Eren despite his recklessness, I'm just glad he took out several Marleyans (citizens and soldiers alike) during all of that.

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    • Helel ben Shahaar wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.
      You okay, bro?

      Need a tissue? A glass of water? A torch and a stake?

      I'll definitely take the tissue for Sasha. Then the torch and stake for Gabi. I'll save the glass of water until after the witch burns

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.
      I am in one hundred percent agreement with this statement, I really don't care what happens anymore. After the events of 105, I can't raise anything more than halfhearted concern for any of the other remaining characters. Not because I hate the rest of the main cast, but Sasha was the one I was most invested in, and for the story to continue without her just feels wrong on so many levels. I am not going to attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it, it just feels wrong. I mean I don't even care about what happens to Annie, who's been out of action for just far too long for me to give a damn. For the longest time I was curious about where this was headed but after all this, I'm just done. To care is to set yourself up for heartbreak, which is the only outcome that is ever afforded by this thing, so why bother. Why should we care when we know it's all going to end badly no matter what happens is my point. I can only hope Gabi Braun will suffer in the worst possible way regardless of how her story plays out, she absolutely earned all of the hate she had received. Otherwise I can only say I regret that Eren is still our protagonist. One of the worst in recent anime, any one of the others is far more suited for the role than he is. One site I saw put way more value on Levi as the main hero than Eren, and someone in Japan should've made that the case instead. 
      I'll still read/watch the series, of course, it looks like the overall story will finally pick up after the abysmal Marley arc, but as long as Gabi gets the worst death possible, I'm indifferent towards whether the other characters live or die.

      I actually don't hate Eren despite his recklessness, I'm just glad he took out several Marleyans (citizens and soldiers alike) during all of that.

      I'm totally apathetic, and beyond insulted that this is what we've been dealt. I've let a lot of BS in this story skirt by, but we've already passed my limit on what I'm willing to accept. I do not appreciate the Marley arc ending with this, and I do not appreciate these brats being shoehorned in. I do not care about the Marley's perspective/Liberio's perspective, and I certainly am gonna be damed before I let Isayama try to numb me to what Gabi has done. There's no redemption possible for the one who was the true devil in this war. As far as I'm concerned, this story's already suicided itself. 

      No I seriously do want Eren to die now. This guy has gone too far. Just a stupid screamer who doesn't care who he gets killed for his actions, he went in there knowing he was forcing their hand and look what happened. 

      2018 has been a disgusting year for Titan. 

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Fire Eater wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.
      I am in one hundred percent agreement with this statement, I really don't care what happens anymore. After the events of 105, I can't raise anything more than halfhearted concern for any of the other remaining characters. Not because I hate the rest of the main cast, but Sasha was the one I was most invested in, and for the story to continue without her just feels wrong on so many levels. I am not going to attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it, it just feels wrong. I mean I don't even care about what happens to Annie, who's been out of action for just far too long for me to give a damn. For the longest time I was curious about where this was headed but after all this, I'm just done. To care is to set yourself up for heartbreak, which is the only outcome that is ever afforded by this thing, so why bother. Why should we care when we know it's all going to end badly no matter what happens is my point. I can only hope Gabi Braun will suffer in the worst possible way regardless of how her story plays out, she absolutely earned all of the hate she had received. Otherwise I can only say I regret that Eren is still our protagonist. One of the worst in recent anime, any one of the others is far more suited for the role than he is. One site I saw put way more value on Levi as the main hero than Eren, and someone in Japan should've made that the case instead. 

      I'll still read/watch the series, of course, it looks like the overall story will finally pick up after the abysmal Marley arc, but as long as Gabi gets the worst death possible, I'm indifferent towards whether the other characters live or die.

      I actually don't hate Eren despite his recklessness, I'm just glad he took out several Marleyans (citizens and soldiers alike) during all of that.

      You hated the Marley Arc that bad? Why?
      Also while there are a few issues with the Marely I actually enjoyed it & I don't hate Gabi despite what transpired.
      
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    • It was fine until Chapter 105. Until that point. 

      And yes, I understand you are probably talking to Penguinluver1431. 

      The arc definitely loses points for Gabi Braun though. The true devil among the Eldians. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote: It was fine until Chapter 105. Until that point. 

      And yes, I understand you are probably talking to Penguinluver1431. 

      The arc definitely loses points for Gabi Braun though. The true devil among the Eldians. 

      Well I was talking to both you & Penguinluver1431 however I don't get your criticism of Attack On Titan personally I don't see 2018 a disgusting year for Attack on Titan I admit it was not the most exciting thus far. However it felt like a major turnaround. I feel like your recent criticisms in the past feels like a fan boy perspective. Look I respect your thoughts but I can't say I see it the same way.
      
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    • Oh. Both of us. 

      Well I do not agree, we're at the point I did not want to cross. Obviously you don't feel quite as strongly about 105 as I still do. Me I am personally fed up with all the hype and all the excitement surrounding AoT. I find the story to be deteriorating. We got an author who hasn't given Annie meaningful purpose in years, who hadn't given Ymir anything beyond superficial purpose before revealing her death long after she vanished, he is expecting us to sympathize with Gabi after killing off Sasha, who for me was the most lovable character and some badly needed lightheartedness while also being someone who packed more possibility than was allowed to be realized.........Titan is disrespectful to its own characters. And in turn, I find the series disrespectful to a lot of us, I for one no longer understand its popularity. I would be very worried about the story and exactly what kind of payoff is supposed to come of it. In fact, I don't know what everyone hopes to see when it finally concludes, but it's not worth it. What are we banking on that makes it worth all this? 

      You may be forgiving of these frustrations, of these character deaths. I am not. 

      And don't call me fanboy please, as of eight weeks ago I'm not much of a fan. 

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Fire Eater wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      At this point, I could care less which other characters live or die. As long as Gabi Braun is brutally and savagely killed (maybe eaten by Titan, torn limb from limb, or just gets a well-deserved bullet to the friggin skill), I will be satisfied with the series that the worst, most god-awful and widely despised character is six feet under where she belongs.
      I am in one hundred percent agreement with this statement, I really don't care what happens anymore. After the events of 105, I can't raise anything more than halfhearted concern for any of the other remaining characters. Not because I hate the rest of the main cast, but Sasha was the one I was most invested in, and for the story to continue without her just feels wrong on so many levels. I am not going to attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it, it just feels wrong. I mean I don't even care about what happens to Annie, who's been out of action for just far too long for me to give a damn. For the longest time I was curious about where this was headed but after all this, I'm just done. To care is to set yourself up for heartbreak, which is the only outcome that is ever afforded by this thing, so why bother. Why should we care when we know it's all going to end badly no matter what happens is my point. I can only hope Gabi Braun will suffer in the worst possible way regardless of how her story plays out, she absolutely earned all of the hate she had received. Otherwise I can only say I regret that Eren is still our protagonist. One of the worst in recent anime, any one of the others is far more suited for the role than he is. One site I saw put way more value on Levi as the main hero than Eren, and someone in Japan should've made that the case instead. 
      I'll still read/watch the series, of course, it looks like the overall story will finally pick up after the abysmal Marley arc, but as long as Gabi gets the worst death possible, I'm indifferent towards whether the other characters live or die.

      I actually don't hate Eren despite his recklessness, I'm just glad he took out several Marleyans (citizens and soldiers alike) during all of that.

      You hated the Marley Arc that bad? Why?
      Also while there are a few issues with the Marely I actually enjoyed it & I don't hate Gabi despite what transpired.
      

      From a storytelling perspective, it's one of the worst written story arcs in any series I have read or viewed. The pacing was off and took too long to get back to the actual protagonists, and its placement in the overall narrative was horribly disconfigured. Definite point loss for Gabi Braun, she is single-handedly Isayama's worst creation, and one of the worst of all time, and the new Marley characters (as opposed to the ones we already know such as Zeke and Reiner), with the possible exception of Falco, are uninteresting and unrelatable. Isayama's goal seemed to be to give us a new batch of kids to know and love, but by making them Marleyans, he failed to make us love them (particularly with a certain fan-fave killer). He has tried and failed to blur the line between good and evil and the mess he made with the Marley arc is almost reminiscent of the Naruto author's mantra of "everyone is redeemable" being shoved down our throats.

      On a different note, though, I am legitimately curious how Isayama is handling the overwhelmingly negative reception towards Gabi. It seems like he created her just as a female min-Eren with the hopes that she would be known and loved over time. Well, she was hated before 105 and definitely is after that, so I want to know how he feels about the majority of the fanbase (myself included) just wanting to watch her die and be rid of her for good.

      I apologize if this overall post seems unnecesarily cruel, I really do like the series and am hyped for S3, but at the same time, I've never wanted anyone, real or fictional, to die more than Gabi Braun.

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    • This is true, Gabi was not popular before 105, you can be sure that chapter did nothing to help matters. I'm most certainly not disagreeing with Penguin's analysis of this arc. Personally I mostly just liked it for the fact that nobody was dying in the time the focus shifted over to Liberio, that was literally the main reason I gave it a pass until 105 happened. 

      And oh look, the latest manga cover has the old crew, Sasha included, pictured ready for battle in Liberio looking absolutely amazing. Damn it, the insult of it all. 

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    • First things first I would like to say hello to the AOT Fandom as this will be my first comment regarding the AOT series. 

      I haven't been a big fan of the last few chapters of the manga as I personally didn't love the way that The Battle Of Liberio concluded with the WHT being more of a cheap upgrade for Eren to acquire rather than a character and how shockingly low stakes the conflict itself was with the only losses being two underdeveloped children that were only killed for shock value, a character with the personality of a Westworld Drone Host (Ms. Tybur is bar none the worst character in the manga as of right now), and a character that started out with loads of potential but was eventually relegated to repetive food jokes and blankly staring out of the page for 20+ chapters. The death of Sasha for me was also handled exceptionally poorly as I feel that her death was melodramatic as it tried to make the death of a minor character seem like a grandiose tragedy when another character would fill this role better (Mikasa, Jean, or Levi would be the best choices as losing them would have actually been devasting), focused on the wrong character interactions (like why in this chapter is Mikasa of all people brooding over Sasha's grave instead of say Connie? Mikasa basically says in season 2 that she doesn't care for anyone not named Eren or Armin, so why does Sasha's death impact her so much?), and was a cheap attempt to remedy the fact that the Battle Of Liberio was a flawless victory for the Survey Corps as they lost 7 easily replaced nameless soldiers in exchange for stealing 2 titans, killing hundreds of Marley soldiers, and crippling Marley's fleet beyond repair yet in this chapter Isayama is trying to convince me that the loss of Sasha is a devastating moment for the Survey Corps when it clearly isn't as victory is all but assured as long as Zeke isn't going to pull out a quadruple cross (which he probably is) due to the full power of the Founding Titan being at there disposal. The only thing I've really liked in these last few chapters were the progression of Porco and Gabi's character arcs as it was nice to see Porky get pulverized based on his character flaws rather than OP characters and I think Gabi's speech on her motivations was the best part of these last three chapters as I felt it humanized her greatly and honestly some people need to understand that her killing Sasha was a realistic reaction as most people who just lost friends to an invading enemy force wouldn't stop to think that "oh this person is actually really nice and likes potatoes" and would instead kill whoever they saw first out of rage (See Saving Private Ryan and how some of that crew reacted to having one of there own killed because it wasn't pretty). This chapter though was probably the worst of the last few as it's kinda of a dull read with Yelena being a duplicate character of Mikasa and it focused entirely on shining a light on stuff that in my opinion would of worked best through dialogue in the present or as a greatly reduced flashback rather than a unbearably cheesy flashback that felt more like a no sh** Sherlock style exposition dump rather than anything substantial that moved the plot forward but atleast the implications of getting to see Bert's memories and Eren's fall from grace are both enticing and interesting story threads that I would like to see going forward.

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    • Randomuser4 wrote:
      TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      And so what is this supposed to be leading towards exactly? 
      I decided to respond to something that wasn't directly related to Sasha's death, because I've seen your laments everywhere for the past two months.

      I also decided to help you with starting a new topic, but if that's not something you want to discuss, that's fine by me. I'll just find somewhere else to actually discuss the most recent chapter instead of arguing over how Sasha's improper death was unfit to the original manga, and the last straw for a manga that is in a spiraling downfall (accelerated by Sasha's death, which lead it to ruined point of no return).

      Let me make myself clear here -- I do NOT want to argue with you over how Sasha's death was a lie, it happened and so it happened. I will agree with you that some of the factors that lead to her death were the product of poor writing on Isayama's part. However, her death was foreshadowed earlier on in the Marley arc (it'd happen sooner or later), and the only reason why she even survived to make an appearance in that arc is because Isayama's editor didn't want her to die back in chapter 36.

      In conclusion, we were all impacted by Sasha's death in some way -- some of us were greatly affected while others expected it. Sasha was important to many people, and her death left quite a few distraught.

      Tl;dr? My message was just simply an attempt to change the subject and talk about something new.

      Since you're looking for a different topic to move onto, how about my theory on an alliance between Paradis and the Mid-East Forces?

      Sorry for the late reply. If you're willing to try and give it a go, I'll read what you say.

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    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      First things first I would like to say hello to the AOT Fandom as this will be my first comment regarding the AOT series. 

      I haven't been a big fan of the last few chapters of the manga as I personally didn't love the way that The Battle Of Liberio concluded with the WHT being more of a cheap upgrade for Eren to acquire rather than a character and how shockingly low stakes the conflict itself was with the only losses being two underdeveloped children that were only killed for shock value, a character with the personality of a Westworld Drone Host (Ms. Tybur is bar none the worst character in the manga as of right now), and a character that started out with loads of potential but was eventually relegated to repetive food jokes and blankly staring out of the page for 20+ chapters. The death of Sasha for me was also handled exceptionally poorly as I feel that her death was melodramatic as it tried to make the death of a minor character seem like a grandiose tragedy when another character would fill this role better (Mikasa, Jean, or Levi would be the best choices as losing them would have actually been devasting), focused on the wrong character interactions (like why in this chapter is Mikasa of all people brooding over Sasha's grave instead of say Connie? Mikasa basically says in season 2 that she doesn't care for anyone not named Eren or Armin, so why does Sasha's death impact her so much?), and was a cheap attempt to remedy the fact that the Battle Of Liberio was a flawless victory for the Survey Corps as they lost 7 easily replaced nameless soldiers in exchange for stealing 2 titans, killing hundreds of Marley soldiers, and crippling Marley's fleet beyond repair yet in this chapter Isayama is trying to convince me that the loss of Sasha is a devastating moment for the Survey Corps when it clearly isn't as victory is all but assured as long as Zeke isn't going to pull out a quadruple cross (which he probably is) due to the full power of the Founding Titan being at there disposal. The only thing I've really liked in these last few chapters were the progression of Porco and Gabi's character arcs as it was nice to see Porky get pulverized based on his character flaws rather than OP characters and I think Gabi's speech on her motivations was the best part of these last three chapters as I felt it humanized her greatly and honestly some people need to understand that her killing Sasha was a realistic reaction as most people who just lost friends to an invading enemy force wouldn't stop to think that "oh this person is actually really nice and likes potatoes" and would instead kill whoever they saw first out of rage (See Saving Private Ryan and how some of that crew reacted to having one of there own killed because it wasn't pretty). This chapter though was probably the worst of the last few as it's kinda of a dull read with Yelena being a duplicate character of Mikasa and it focused entirely on shining a light on stuff that in my opinion would of worked best through dialogue in the present or as a greatly reduced flashback rather than a unbearably cheesy flashback that felt more like a no sh** Sherlock style exposition dump rather than anything substantial that moved the plot forward but atleast the implications of getting to see Bert's memories and Eren's fall from grace are both enticing and interesting story threads that I would like to see going forward.

      I do agree it was nice to see Porco get defeated. I may not have been overly fond of Ymir, but it was a cheap move on Isayama's part to just up and replace her with someone completely new without giving us any time to appreciate the character. I must, however, vehement disagree on the "positive development" for Gabi. She is still the worst character ever. I know you just reserved that position for Ms. Tybur, but honestly she wasn't around long enough to leave any kind of impact, positive or negative. Isayama has had 15+ chapters to try and develop Gabi into someone likable, but not only was she completely unlikable, she is completely unbearable. I'm just strongly hoping he has the guts to kill her off for good, preferably soon. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

      But keep Falco, though, he's got potential.

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    • I think Gabi still has a lot of worth in the story as a twisted fun house mirror version of Eren as she is basically the person he was at the beginning of the story which was an overly nationalistic individual who believed they were in the right all the time and that there enemies are monsters that need to be destroyed no matter the cost and I think she will make Eren realize his extreme actions were in the wrong and he will try to change her ways to prevent her from destroying her soul further like he just did in Liberio and I totally get Gabi's personality being off putting as I felt the same way about Eren at the beginning of the series but even if Gabi isn't a perfect character I get what Isayama is trying to do and I personally appreciate it but feel that Gabi's overall standing in my character rankings will depend on what Isayama does from here. On the other side to further clarify my distaste for Tybur is the fact that the WHT was unbelievably cool in design and ability and was hyped for five straight chapters but was handed to a character that had no bearing on the plot outside of providing a protagonist with an upgrade, had 3 lines of dialogue, and then just died atleast with Gabi love or hate her she is a character with clear motivations and a defined personality whereas Tybur isn't a character but a thinly veiled plot device and I feel like characters like that shouldn't exist in any story let alone with an important piece of the narrative puzzle.

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    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      I think Gabi still has a lot of worth in the story as a twisted fun house mirror version of Eren as she is basically the person he was at the beginning of the story which was an overly nationalistic individual who believed they were in the right all the time and that there enemies are monsters that need to be destroyed no matter the cost and I think she will make Eren realize his extreme actions were in the wrong and he will try to change her ways to prevent her from destroying her soul further like he just did in Liberio and I totally get Gabi's personality being off putting as I felt the same way about Eren at the beginning of the series but even if Gabi isn't a perfect character I get what Isayama is trying to do and I personally appreciate it but feel that Gabi's overall standing in my character rankings will depend on what Isayama does from here. On the other side to further clarify my distaste for Tybur is the fact that the WHT was unbelievably cool in design and ability and was hyped for five straight chapters but was handed to a character that had no bearing on the plot outside of providing a protagonist with an upgrade, had 3 lines of dialogue, and then just died atleast with Gabi love or hate her she is a character with clear motivations and a defined personality whereas Tybur isn't a character but a thinly veiled plot device and I feel like characters like that shouldn't exist in any story let alone with an important piece of the narrative puzzle.

      I get your point about Ms. Tybur and WHT and whatnot. It does seem odd that such a supposedly important family would be killed off as quickly as they were introduced. But I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree about Gabi. I don't care what the author's intentions were; even if she's more "relevant" than Sasha was, most people clearly despise Gabi, myself included, and would not shed a tear if/when she dies. And quite frankly, I don't hate the idea of someone like Eren or Zeke just watching the world burn, both of them on their own have more interesting character development and enjoyability than all the Marley kids combined.

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    • Yea I can totally understand why Gabi and this arc have divided the fanbase but even with my own problems with the conclusion of the Marley arc I am still really interested in seeing where the story is going like I wonder what was up with Magath's cryptic line about "Useable Posts" + the war itself should be interesting considering its basically World War Titan so at the very least it should be visually stunning. Also @TheMagicalWonders I'll bite on that theory about a potential MEA and Paradis alliance I would very much like to know what that is.

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    • I'd rather focus on Falco than on Gabi, if I could work up the capacity to care again. 

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    • TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Randomuser4 wrote:
      TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      And so what is this supposed to be leading towards exactly? 
      I decided to respond to something that wasn't directly related to Sasha's death, because I've seen your laments everywhere for the past two months.

      I also decided to help you with starting a new topic, but if that's not something you want to discuss, that's fine by me. I'll just find somewhere else to actually discuss the most recent chapter instead of arguing over how Sasha's improper death was unfit to the original manga, and the last straw for a manga that is in a spiraling downfall (accelerated by Sasha's death, which lead it to ruined point of no return).

      Let me make myself clear here -- I do NOT want to argue with you over how Sasha's death was a lie, it happened and so it happened. I will agree with you that some of the factors that lead to her death were the product of poor writing on Isayama's part. However, her death was foreshadowed earlier on in the Marley arc (it'd happen sooner or later), and the only reason why she even survived to make an appearance in that arc is because Isayama's editor didn't want her to die back in chapter 36.

      In conclusion, we were all impacted by Sasha's death in some way -- some of us were greatly affected while others expected it. Sasha was important to many people, and her death left quite a few distraught.

      Tl;dr? My message was just simply an attempt to change the subject and talk about something new.

      Since you're looking for a different topic to move onto, how about my theory on an alliance between Paradis and the Mid-East Forces?
      Sorry for the late reply. If you're willing to try and give it a go, I'll read what you say.

      Anyways, here's my first post on the theory:

      "I've been thinking about the part where Eren says that Paradis needs to buy themselves some time and ensure they don't get any interference.  That got me thinking that the Mid-East Forces were possibly allied to Paradis, who convinced them to declare war against the Marleyans.  How likely is that?"

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    • The MEA is definitely going to be a big factor in the war to come due to there Anti-Titan Artilery but they really seem to dislike Eldians (maybe even more than Marley) as the one guy was pretty ungrateful towards Falco for saving his life and I believe that they had representatives at the festival when Eren attacked so that probably ruined the possibilty of an alliance. I think though that they declared war on Marley based on info leaked by Zeke (loss of Female and Colossal Titans) who instigated the MidEast war to distract Marley and prevent them from attacking Paradis immeditately in order to buy Yelena time to instigate that truce with the Survey Corps and I think that most people online are correct about Kiyomi's nation Hizuru being the ally of Paradis as she was acting suspicously around Willy and she also has a soft spot for Eldians.

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    • I don't think the actual passion in this manga is in the story itself anymore. I think it's all about testing us and seeing how needlessly they can devastate and frustrate us. Because it sure ain't about the characters, whether they have a name or are nameless, I can tell you that. At this point I am just hoping that there are very few chapters left to burn off before the Titan craze finally ends. 

      This story ended with the ocean. ANd that's where it should stay. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      I don't think the actual passion in this manga is in the story itself anymore. I think it's all about testing us and seeing how needlessly they can devastate and frustrate us. Because it sure ain't about the characters, whether they have a name or are nameless, I can tell you that. At this point I am just hoping that there are very few chapters left to burn off before the Titan craze finally ends. 

      This story ended with the ocean. ANd that's where it should stay. 

      So you hate Attack on Titan because of that one chapter of that one arc? Is this the part where you make a YouTube video about Attack on Titan and why it sucks? All because the author went in a storytelling direction of no return?

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      I don't think the actual passion in this manga is in the story itself anymore. I think it's all about testing us and seeing how needlessly they can devastate and frustrate us. Because it sure ain't about the characters, whether they have a name or are nameless, I can tell you that. At this point I am just hoping that there are very few chapters left to burn off before the Titan craze finally ends. 

      This story ended with the ocean. ANd that's where it should stay. 

      So you hate Attack on Titan because of that one chapter of that one arc? Is this the part where you make a YouTube video about Attack on Titan and why it sucks? All because the author went in a storytelling direction of no return?

      Hey I've put up with a lot of complete nonsense from this story, this is simply the breaking point and the one crossed line I was never willing to forgive. Like why? I'm more than just indignant about it. 

      The emotional exploitation continues, and continues to be mistaken for something poignant when no, it's just another knife to the soul. Or in this case, a bullet to the chest. And it ain't about to let up. The one swerve the story did NOT need. Some compensation for four years wasted on this would be appreciated. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      I don't think the actual passion in this manga is in the story itself anymore. I think it's all about testing us and seeing how needlessly they can devastate and frustrate us. Because it sure ain't about the characters, whether they have a name or are nameless, I can tell you that. At this point I am just hoping that there are very few chapters left to burn off before the Titan craze finally ends. 

      This story ended with the ocean. ANd that's where it should stay. 

      So you hate Attack on Titan because of that one chapter of that one arc? Is this the part where you make a YouTube video about Attack on Titan and why it sucks? All because the author went in a storytelling direction of no return?
      Hey I've put up with a lot of complete nonsense from this story, this is simply the breaking point and the one crossed line I was never willing to forgive. Like why? I'm more than just indignant about it. 

      The emotional exploitation continues, and continues to be mistaken for something poignant when no, it's just another knife to the soul. Or in this case, a bullet to the chest. And it ain't about to let up. The one swerve the story did NOT need. Some compensation for four years wasted on this would be appreciated. 

      Look not every writer is going to be perfect, it's like a rarity here & there that a author makes a story on the level of JKK Tolkien or GRR Martin or even a Yoshihiro Togashi that makes a great story from head to toe. But writers write what they want to write, obviously not every written piece of work is going to be great automatically, some may end up either really bad, but some end up good but not without putting up some effort into it. Hajime Isayama is not a great writer and he wasn't even a good mangaka at the beginning but he grew & learn some experience on the way, if he does make a new manga he may do the story a bit better.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      I don't think the actual passion in this manga is in the story itself anymore. I think it's all about testing us and seeing how needlessly they can devastate and frustrate us. Because it sure ain't about the characters, whether they have a name or are nameless, I can tell you that. At this point I am just hoping that there are very few chapters left to burn off before the Titan craze finally ends. 

      This story ended with the ocean. ANd that's where it should stay. 

      So you hate Attack on Titan because of that one chapter of that one arc? Is this the part where you make a YouTube video about Attack on Titan and why it sucks? All because the author went in a storytelling direction of no return?
      Hey I've put up with a lot of complete nonsense from this story, this is simply the breaking point and the one crossed line I was never willing to forgive. Like why? I'm more than just indignant about it. 

      The emotional exploitation continues, and continues to be mistaken for something poignant when no, it's just another knife to the soul. Or in this case, a bullet to the chest. And it ain't about to let up. The one swerve the story did NOT need. Some compensation for four years wasted on this would be appreciated. 

      Look not every writer is going to be perfect, it's like a rarity here & there that a author makes a story on the level of JKK Tolkien or GRR Martin or even a Yoshihiro Togashi that makes a great story from head to toe. But writers write what they want to write, obviously not every written piece of work is going to be great automatically, some may end up either really bad, but some end up good but not without putting up some effort into it. Hajime Isayama is not a great writer and he wasn't even a good mangaka at the beginning but he grew & learn some experience on the way, if he does make a new manga he may do the story a bit better.

      Hello, Fern. 

      So when is it time to move on to the next manga? Because man, this one's terrible. While they've been heaping adoration upon the mains, be they the villains or the heroes, including ones who do not deserve it (Gabi Braun), the supporting cast which more than deserves better treatment and is almost as compelling is treated like such crap throughout, and I'm sorry this is how they found their beginnings with this manga. And a writer who can't give two of his mains (Annie and Ymir) any purpose to serve over such a staggering length of the series........I prefer something more character-driven, not death-driven. At this point whatever payoff there is is gonna ring pretty hollow. 

      I certainly think the insult of 105 is dragging itself out too aggressively and it brings up the insult of previous such instances in the series.

      You can probably tell I'm no Game of Thrones fan.

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    • Well there is some series that does the good vs evil thing better but this series as well as others are more on the grey area than black and white but I get it.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Well there is some series that does the good vs evil thing better but this series as well as others are more on the grey area than black and white but I get it.

      Well it's throwing me for a loop and without spoiling anything, I'm right back to asking myself "What the hell is going on?" in this story. I can't stand how it's been executed, it's more frustrating than it is fascinating at this point. I get the emphasis on grey morality, but this is taken to such an extreme here that I cannot enjoy this grey morality tale. Especially not after recent events. I'm still not convinced whatever ending we get will be worth it. It's not exactly up there with Breaking Bad, which also was pretty grey, was it not? 

      You ever heard of the trope Eight Deadly Words? Post-105, that's my attitude towards this. 

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    • Fire Eater wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Well there is some series that does the good vs evil thing better but this series as well as others are more on the grey area than black and white but I get it.
      Well it's throwing me for a loop and without spoiling anything, I'm right back to asking myself "What the hell is going on?" in this story. I can't stand how it's been executed, it's more frustrating than it is fascinating at this point. I get the emphasis on grey morality, but this is taken to such an extreme here that I cannot enjoy this grey morality tale. Especially not after recent events. I'm still not convinced whatever ending we get will be worth it. It's not exactly up there with Breaking Bad, which also was pretty grey, was it not? 

      You ever heard of the trope Eight Deadly Words? Post-105, that's my attitude towards this. 

      Didn't know you watch Breaking Bad? Well never heard of that trope though. What are the "eight deadly words"? You got that from TV Tropes? 

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Fire Eater wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Well there is some series that does the good vs evil thing better but this series as well as others are more on the grey area than black and white but I get it.
      Well it's throwing me for a loop and without spoiling anything, I'm right back to asking myself "What the hell is going on?" in this story. I can't stand how it's been executed, it's more frustrating than it is fascinating at this point. I get the emphasis on grey morality, but this is taken to such an extreme here that I cannot enjoy this grey morality tale. Especially not after recent events. I'm still not convinced whatever ending we get will be worth it. It's not exactly up there with Breaking Bad, which also was pretty grey, was it not? 

      You ever heard of the trope Eight Deadly Words? Post-105, that's my attitude towards this. 

      Didn't know you watch Breaking Bad? Well never heard of that trope though. What are the "eight deadly words"? You got that from TV Tropes? 

      Not much, but I know enough. I plan on watching the whole thing later. There's a grey morality tale that clearly did something right. 

      Yes I did. I cared a lot about the characters and really wanted to see more of my favorites come out on top. After 105, this trope is firmly in effect. What it boils down to is this: 

      "I don't care what happens to these people". 

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    • I think this series still cares about it's characters. And if anything else even if you think this is train wreck already, I am sticking through to the end to see how it all resolved. It might be the resolution you may least expect it to be.

      Beware of the TV Tropes because it's has great knowledge but also a cesspool of just never ending tropes and meanings. 

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      I think this series still cares about it's characters. And if anything else even if you think this is train wreck already, I am sticking through to the end to see how it all resolved. It might be the resolution you may least expect it to be.

      Beware of the TV Tropes because it's has great knowledge but also a cesspool of just never ending tropes and meanings. 

      That's not what I take from it. Isayama never gave a damn about Sasha, he couldn't resist his earlier attempt to axe her, he just delayed it and reduced her to nothing but a plot device to motivate the currently most hated character from the Marley side of the story. He gives nothing to the others either. It's just about death, there's no time for anyone who isn't a Warrior, Shifter or an Ackerman. There's virtually no balance. And while he continues branching things off into fifteen new directions, he's abandoning others completely, Ymir being a perfect example. And I'm sure there's others I'm failing to mention. And as I've said before, the actual Titan killing took a back seat very early to the war against the Homelanders. I hate a story where the characters just don't have any value other than being death cards. 

      And what kind of resolution should I expect? Unless you're talking about some sort of resurrection, I am betting you it is just gonna be exactly what most of us expect it to be. Depressing, bloody, and almost no one of the core cast left standing, win or lose. Who wants that? 

      I couldn't find a trope that more accurately described my feelings after reading Crapter 105, so that's the one I'm content to cite here. Sorry. 

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