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    • In which it seems clear that Nicolo is Tonio Trussardi (knife throwing/being intimidating etc., but for different reasons)

      Ahh! The first chapter of a volume/new arc (who knows? Neeexxtttt chapter... it'll provide us with a better name than "Yeagerists arc").

      Two chapters ago, I really liked the adventures of Gabi and Falco (gave it 10). However, the Yeagerists have captured my attention now. I know we've all been waiting for this scene, but I guess I wanted to see what happened to Zeke, Levi and Eren before this. I also was expecting another flashback, but those last a few pages so I guess not.

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    • TheMagicalWonders wrote:

      Ahh! The first chapter of a volume/new arc (who knows? Neeexxtttt chapter... it'll provide us with a better name than "Yeagerists arc").


      Yeah, I agree. Not really digging that name; maybe 'Civil War arc'? I dunno.

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    • Wow...... I'm really torn about Nicolo's reveal. On one hand, those brash MP's will deserve getting their punishment (especially Rogue). But then again, Falco would be punished as well for Nicolo's actions in the heat of the moment.


      But the big thing for me was about Gabi. I think she's finally seen the light!

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    • Unfortunately I was not a big fan of this chapter as I found the first half (Pixis and crew talk) merely adequate while I hated the second half (Gabi). 

      Positives:

      - The wine was confirmed to be spiked with Zeke's spinal fluid so fortunately the alpha plot made tangible progress for once.


      Negatives:

      - Gabi's plotline completely flatlined for me as it was an incredibly sloppy attempt to drive home the themes of the last 20 chapters and there was so much wrong here from the forced interactions, unrealistic moments, general predictablity, emotional manipulation, and logic errors that made the entire plotline go from merely boring to down right terrible. The core problem that I have with this storyline overall though is that it's too easy to see the deus in the machina as this entire chain of events is unbelievable from Gabi happening to be in the same sector as the family of the soldier she slew to the mindboggling military errors (a single guy guarding a prison like c'mon) and the situation Gabi finds herself in this chapter is also too mechanical in nature from the characters that are conveniently present (SC) to the attempts to play emotional cards that the story didn't earn (Kaya's friend line in this chapter was awful as A.) it was unearned as Gabi has been incredibly unfriendly and downright racist towards her in their few interactions and B.) like seriously did Kaya think Gabi/Falco teleported to Paradis?). Another thing I hated was the saint like disposition of Mr. Braus when it came to Gabi as he was too quick to forgive and didn't even show any emotional struggle with the decision like most normal people would and it's obvious that Isayama prioritized delivering a heavy handed lecture on forgiving thy enemy over something with real emotional impact. I can't help but feel that at this point that this entire plotline is a lame redo of our original 3 warriors individual arcs with all the subtelty and realism drained out.

      - Eren and Zeke's lacklustre storyline is also on the verge of collapse for me as it's painfully boring and seems to have confused a slow pace with sinking in quicksand as Zeke spends all his screentime mugging at the panel as the X-Files theme plays (this is the worst mystery box I have ever seen) and Eren despite being the main character/driver of the plot gets to play second fiddle to others while making no progress in his own plot. The biggest issue I have with this storyline though is that everybody in the story keeps saying Zeke/Eren are up to something rather than showing them doing anything and it's honestly immensly grating as Isayama has extremely potent material with the potential fall of Eren into an anti-hero but he keeps focusing on dry scenes of people talking in lifeless rooms about Eren rather than giving us a glimpse into Eren's psyche and his current motivations.

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    • I guess I should be thankful that I enjoyed the previous chapter, because this one was awful. Assuming its the first in a new arc, it was a very, VERY dissapointing start.

      On the bright side, I like that Pixis now seems to be running the show, and that he isn't dead set on directly opposing Eren, just making sure no further damage is done, particularly to Historia. And Levi and Zeke still camping like in-laws at Thanksgiving lol.

      But the restaurant scene just...I don't even know where to begin. I do like that apparently Nicolo and Sasha were dating. And I like Falco enjoying Nicolo's cooking. But once Gabi and Falco learn he is Marleyan and they talk to him...everything goes to hell for me. Gabi BRAGS about killing Sasha and thinks she's going to be praised for it? Sick, disgusting child. 

      I don't blame Nicolo in the least for attacking Gabi, but Falco didn't deserve to get hit. I'm honestly a little sick of him constantly protecting Gabi when she's the one who got him in this mess to begin with. But Nicolo still gets points for punching Gabi, the panels with her bloodied face, I truly did enjoy.

      VERY dissappointed that Sasha's own parents chose not to avenge their daughter, going on about how it won't change anything and stuff. Like I get it, Isayama's all about "we're all the same" and "revenge doesn't solve anything" yadda yadda yadda. But Kaya doesn't seem to feel the same and I was really stoked when it looked like she was going to rid us of Gabi...

      Oh wait, just kidding, Mikasa of all people stops her and protects Gabi. MIKASA. The same one who vividly cried when Sasha died and thought of her as a sister, now protecting the same monster that took her away. I used to like Mikasa. Not anymore. Thanks for ruining her for me, Isayama.

      Oh, and adding insult to injury? That whole spinal fluid thing was true and it looks like Falco's going to get punished for Gabi's crimes. Smh.

      Overall, very dissatisfied with this chapter. Horrible writing, complete dismantling of once-great characters, forcing us to empathize with the bad ones...not liking where the rest of the series is going. If Isayama can just ruin Mikasa like that and make me completely hate her after 110 chapters of being fascinated by her character, I no longer trust he is capable of good writing. 3/10 this chapter, I hope to God the next one improves.

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    • Winston4278 wrote:
      TheMagicalWonders wrote:

      Ahh! The first chapter of a volume/new arc (who knows? Neeexxtttt chapter... it'll provide us with a better name than "Yeagerists arc").

      Yeah, I agree. Not really digging that name; maybe 'Civil War arc'? I dunno.

      Hmm. Given how most Attack on Titan arcs are named, maybe something more elaborate? I'm taking a look at some of the previous suggestions for the Marley arc here (yes, I know it's for the Marley arc, but these fit as well):

      • Great War arc, Great Titan War II arc, Second Great Titan War arc
      • War between the Eldians and the Marley arc
      • The Wings of Freedom arc
      • Battle for Freedom arc

      Personally, I like four the best. Two is too long, one sounds strange, and three emphasizes the Survey Corps (I think this arc will focus more on the Military/Eren). The French wiki has dubbed it "The Return to Paradis arc". Dunno.

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    • anyone who mindlessly gets revenge on someone for doing something they were just brainwashed into doing, would make you a far bigger monster.

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    • Welp, with that ending, looks like everything is going to hell in a handbasket. And I mean even more than it already did.

      Really liked Pixis though and how reasonable and logical he's being. One way or another, Paradis can't afford to be split.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:
      anyone who mindlessly gets revenge on someone for doing something they were just brainwashed into doing, would make you a far bigger monster.

      Normally I would agree with you, but since the context is Gabi and Nicolo, I will GLADLY take Nicolo over Gabi any day.

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    • I guess I'm an outlier as I quite enjoyed this chapter. I liked seeing the military deal with the fallout in the first half and seeing Pixis take over as the new head of the military. Obviously nothing formal yet, but he's the de facto leader right now. He's pretty canny and people respect him.

      I also enjoyed Nile and Rogue's arguing, which is something that I think should have been shown in one form or another in previous chapters featuring the Military Police. There's often been a disconnect between Nile's behavior and how other MP officers behave when he's not around. Having Nile and Rogue together is nice in that we actually see the differing POVs at the same time rather than having the schitzo "we're being reasonable/we only exist to get in your way" depending on whether Nile's around.

      And Rogue is totally going to turn into a Titan later, given that he was guzzling all that wine from Nicolo. Nile might not have drank any, seeing as he seemed to disapprove of Rogue's drinking and he didn't have a glass in front of him.

      The second half was predictable. Obviously Gabi and Falco would meet up with Nicolo given that Kaya invited them along. What I did not expect though was Nicolo's reaction. I didn't realize the guy had forged such a strong connection with Sasha, to the point he would try to avenge her, and I think this was a bit of a misstep.

      While it was nice seeing his questioning leading Gabi to spill the beans that she killed her, I think this could have been more effective if we'd seen more of Nicolo and Sasha in the flashback, because Isayama is asking us to believe that Nicolo cared that much for her without showing us that he did. Having him pop up at her grave to meet her family isn't really enough.

      But even though it was predictable, it hit all the right beats. Kaya wanting to kill Gabi felt rather strong. I expected yelling and screaming rather than a knife, but served to hammer home the point to Gabi that the world isn't as black and white as she thinks. Considering that Gabi has spent enough time with Kaya to understand her a bit, this probably hurts more than Nicolo trying to kill and Falco.

      The spinal fluid reveal was nice, but I have to wonder just how they got bottles of wine with his fluid conveniently mixed inside. I was under the impression the MPs drank a lot, and they could probably polish off a single bottle in one sitting. So just how much fluid is needed to contaminate a bottle? And when did they find the time to do this? Zeke's been under watch ever since he arrived.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote: I guess I should be thankful that I enjoyed the previous chapter, because this one was awful. Assuming its the first in a new arc, it was a very, VERY dissapointing start.

      On the bright side, I like that Pixis now seems to be running the show, and that he isn't dead set on directly opposing Eren, just making sure no further damage is done, particularly to Historia. And Levi and Zeke still camping like in-laws at Thanksgiving lol.

      But the restaurant scene just...I don't even know where to begin. I do like that apparently Nicolo and Sasha were dating. And I like Falco enjoying Nicolo's cooking. But once Gabi and Falco learn he is Marleyan and they talk to him...everything goes to hell for me. Gabi BRAGS about killing Sasha and thinks she's going to be praised for it? Sick, disgusting child. 

      I don't blame Nicolo in the least for attacking Gabi, but Falco didn't deserve to get hit. I'm honestly a little sick of him constantly protecting Gabi when she's the one who got him in this mess to begin with. But Nicolo still gets points for punching Gabi, the panels with her bloodied face, I truly did enjoy.

      VERY dissappointed that Sasha's own parents chose not to avenge their daughter, going on about how it won't change anything and stuff. Like I get it, Isayama's all about "we're all the same" and "revenge doesn't solve anything" yadda yadda yadda. But Kaya doesn't seem to feel the same and I was really stoked when it looked like she was going to rid us of Gabi...

      Oh wait, just kidding, Mikasa of all people stops her and protects Gabi. MIKASA. The same one who vividly cried when Sasha died and thought of her as a sister, now protecting the same monster that took her away. I used to like Mikasa. Not anymore. Thanks for ruining her for me, Isayama.

      Oh, and adding insult to injury? That whole spinal fluid thing was true and it looks like Falco's going to get punished for Gabi's crimes. Smh.

      Overall, very dissatisfied with this chapter. Horrible writing, complete dismantling of once-great characters, forcing us to empathize with the bad ones...not liking where the rest of the series is going. If Isayama can just ruin Mikasa like that and make me completely hate her after 110 chapters of being fascinated by her character, I no longer trust he is capable of good writing. 3/10 this chapter, I hope to God the next one improves.

      Yeah your bias is showing.

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    • Okay while I can see there are a few issues with this chapter going on such as the thing with Gabi killed Sasha reveal was handled as it felt too quick and maybe a bit contrived. However I think it served its purpose to know that not everything is as black & white and clear to the characters. That said, with all that out of the way now and the wine conspiracy revealed, hopefully next chapter we get more focus with Eren & Zeke & their followers.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote: I guess I should be thankful that I enjoyed the previous chapter, because this one was awful. Assuming its the first in a new arc, it was a very, VERY dissapointing start.

      On the bright side, I like that Pixis now seems to be running the show, and that he isn't dead set on directly opposing Eren, just making sure no further damage is done, particularly to Historia. And Levi and Zeke still camping like in-laws at Thanksgiving lol.

      But the restaurant scene just...I don't even know where to begin. I do like that apparently Nicolo and Sasha were dating. And I like Falco enjoying Nicolo's cooking. But once Gabi and Falco learn he is Marleyan and they talk to him...everything goes to hell for me. Gabi BRAGS about killing Sasha and thinks she's going to be praised for it? Sick, disgusting child. 

      I don't blame Nicolo in the least for attacking Gabi, but Falco didn't deserve to get hit. I'm honestly a little sick of him constantly protecting Gabi when she's the one who got him in this mess to begin with. But Nicolo still gets points for punching Gabi, the panels with her bloodied face, I truly did enjoy.

      VERY dissappointed that Sasha's own parents chose not to avenge their daughter, going on about how it won't change anything and stuff. Like I get it, Isayama's all about "we're all the same" and "revenge doesn't solve anything" yadda yadda yadda. But Kaya doesn't seem to feel the same and I was really stoked when it looked like she was going to rid us of Gabi...

      Oh wait, just kidding, Mikasa of all people stops her and protects Gabi. MIKASA. The same one who vividly cried when Sasha died and thought of her as a sister, now protecting the same monster that took her away. I used to like Mikasa. Not anymore. Thanks for ruining her for me, Isayama.

      Oh, and adding insult to injury? That whole spinal fluid thing was true and it looks like Falco's going to get punished for Gabi's crimes. Smh.

      Overall, very dissatisfied with this chapter. Horrible writing, complete dismantling of once-great characters, forcing us to empathize with the bad ones...not liking where the rest of the series is going. If Isayama can just ruin Mikasa like that and make me completely hate her after 110 chapters of being fascinated by her character, I no longer trust he is capable of good writing. 3/10 this chapter, I hope to God the next one improves.

      Yeah your bias is showing.

      Bias towards what? I probably know what you're going to say, but it doesn't change the fact that this was an awful chapter, let alone a realistic one at that. Like I said in the poll thread, Mr. Blouse's forgiving attitude is not only unrealistic, but to me just reeks of the same sanctimonious stuff Isayama is trying to preach since the Marley arc.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote: I guess I should be thankful that I enjoyed the previous chapter, because this one was awful. Assuming its the first in a new arc, it was a very, VERY dissapointing start.

      On the bright side, I like that Pixis now seems to be running the show, and that he isn't dead set on directly opposing Eren, just making sure no further damage is done, particularly to Historia. And Levi and Zeke still camping like in-laws at Thanksgiving lol.

      But the restaurant scene just...I don't even know where to begin. I do like that apparently Nicolo and Sasha were dating. And I like Falco enjoying Nicolo's cooking. But once Gabi and Falco learn he is Marleyan and they talk to him...everything goes to hell for me. Gabi BRAGS about killing Sasha and thinks she's going to be praised for it? Sick, disgusting child. 

      I don't blame Nicolo in the least for attacking Gabi, but Falco didn't deserve to get hit. I'm honestly a little sick of him constantly protecting Gabi when she's the one who got him in this mess to begin with. But Nicolo still gets points for punching Gabi, the panels with her bloodied face, I truly did enjoy.

      VERY dissappointed that Sasha's own parents chose not to avenge their daughter, going on about how it won't change anything and stuff. Like I get it, Isayama's all about "we're all the same" and "revenge doesn't solve anything" yadda yadda yadda. But Kaya doesn't seem to feel the same and I was really stoked when it looked like she was going to rid us of Gabi...

      Oh wait, just kidding, Mikasa of all people stops her and protects Gabi. MIKASA. The same one who vividly cried when Sasha died and thought of her as a sister, now protecting the same monster that took her away. I used to like Mikasa. Not anymore. Thanks for ruining her for me, Isayama.

      Oh, and adding insult to injury? That whole spinal fluid thing was true and it looks like Falco's going to get punished for Gabi's crimes. Smh.

      Overall, very dissatisfied with this chapter. Horrible writing, complete dismantling of once-great characters, forcing us to empathize with the bad ones...not liking where the rest of the series is going. If Isayama can just ruin Mikasa like that and make me completely hate her after 110 chapters of being fascinated by her character, I no longer trust he is capable of good writing. 3/10 this chapter, I hope to God the next one improves.

      Yeah your bias is showing.

      Bias towards what? I probably know what you're going to say, but it doesn't change the fact that this was an awful chapter, let alone a realistic one at that. Like I said in the poll thread, Mr. Blouse's forgiving attitude is not only unrealistic, but to me just reeks of the same sanctimonious stuff Isayama is trying to preach since the Marley arc.

      It wasn't just being preached since the Marely arc but probably before that as far as the Uprising Arc as it was hinted at. Look I am not going to argue with you, I knew that this chapter was gonna make you Gabi haters rejoice with glee, but also detract at the same time. Some of your criticisms are valid in the broadest sense of the word, however you are beginning to sound like that "Fire Eater" guy.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote: I guess I should be thankful that I enjoyed the previous chapter, because this one was awful. Assuming its the first in a new arc, it was a very, VERY dissapointing start.

      On the bright side, I like that Pixis now seems to be running the show, and that he isn't dead set on directly opposing Eren, just making sure no further damage is done, particularly to Historia. And Levi and Zeke still camping like in-laws at Thanksgiving lol.

      But the restaurant scene just...I don't even know where to begin. I do like that apparently Nicolo and Sasha were dating. And I like Falco enjoying Nicolo's cooking. But once Gabi and Falco learn he is Marleyan and they talk to him...everything goes to hell for me. Gabi BRAGS about killing Sasha and thinks she's going to be praised for it? Sick, disgusting child. 

      I don't blame Nicolo in the least for attacking Gabi, but Falco didn't deserve to get hit. I'm honestly a little sick of him constantly protecting Gabi when she's the one who got him in this mess to begin with. But Nicolo still gets points for punching Gabi, the panels with her bloodied face, I truly did enjoy.

      VERY dissappointed that Sasha's own parents chose not to avenge their daughter, going on about how it won't change anything and stuff. Like I get it, Isayama's all about "we're all the same" and "revenge doesn't solve anything" yadda yadda yadda. But Kaya doesn't seem to feel the same and I was really stoked when it looked like she was going to rid us of Gabi...

      Oh wait, just kidding, Mikasa of all people stops her and protects Gabi. MIKASA. The same one who vividly cried when Sasha died and thought of her as a sister, now protecting the same monster that took her away. I used to like Mikasa. Not anymore. Thanks for ruining her for me, Isayama.

      Oh, and adding insult to injury? That whole spinal fluid thing was true and it looks like Falco's going to get punished for Gabi's crimes. Smh.

      Overall, very dissatisfied with this chapter. Horrible writing, complete dismantling of once-great characters, forcing us to empathize with the bad ones...not liking where the rest of the series is going. If Isayama can just ruin Mikasa like that and make me completely hate her after 110 chapters of being fascinated by her character, I no longer trust he is capable of good writing. 3/10 this chapter, I hope to God the next one improves.

      Yeah your bias is showing.
      Bias towards what? I probably know what you're going to say, but it doesn't change the fact that this was an awful chapter, let alone a realistic one at that. Like I said in the poll thread, Mr. Blouse's forgiving attitude is not only unrealistic, but to me just reeks of the same sanctimonious stuff Isayama is trying to preach since the Marley arc.
      It wasn't just being preached since the Marely arc but probably before that as far as the Uprising Arc as it was hinted at. Look I am not going to argue with you, I knew that this chapter was gonna make you Gabi haters rejoice with glee, but also detract at the same time. Some of your criticisms are valid in the broadest sense of the word, however you are beginning to sound like that "Fire Eater" guy.

      Except I'm still trying to enjoy the series, it started out great, but the author isn't exactly throwing bones at us when it comes to chapters that are truly enjoyable without obvious flaws. It just really went downhill after the basement reveal, that was probably the most disappointing moment ever. I just...didn't like the whole concept of Marley and global politics and whatnot. Look I know I despise Gabi, but honestly, aside from Falco, none of the new Marley characters are what I would call crowning achievements, and I was actually quite pleased with what Eren did. 

      I'm a bit more old school with the whole concept of "eye for an eye", so when I read fiction I am a HUGE proponent of revenge and retaliation. I thought AoT would have been the embodiment of that, now it just seems like the same brand of "everyone is redeemable" soup that Naruto gave us. Even though we all know very well that NOT everyone is redeemable. Some characters are complicated and complex, some are just monsters.

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    • Maybe not everyone is redeemable, but different characters certainly have different beliefs, so even if you would never forgive Gabi, it's still perfectly possible that her father would. As Neet said, this happens in real life. Not all the time, but it happens, so it's well within the realm of possibility.

      Gabi is a twelve-year-old girl, who has been raised in ridiculous circumstances. She might not have even hit puberty yet. She's young enough to have a lot of flexibility in how she views the world. That's why if she was in the real world and murdered Sasha in just about any first world country, she would be sent to a children's court. Generally speaking, people do not consider children irredeemable.

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    • Tdfern14
      Tdfern14 removed this reply because:
      Mistakes
      12:56, November 9, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • The chapter is good in my books. I knew from chapter 108 that the wine are somehow laced with Zeke's spinal fluids. Like poison...nope, it wouldn't do justice. But, with Zeke's spinal fluid...now that will make a interesting situation. However, I didn't anticipated on Falco going to get infected with it...What next.

      Geez, a lot of Gabi haters out there. To me, I can understand from Gabi's POV. After all, a 12 year old girl who was raised to hate the devils of Paradise Island. Only to end up going to the very place she hated because Gabi stormed the airship to get revenge on those devils who killed her friends and attacked Gabi's village. What you guys expect...rainbow and unicorns.

      I didn't expect Kaya wanting to kill Gabi with a knife. After all, she wanted to help them to get back home (Marley). To me, I would've believe that if Kaya have truly find out about Gabi being Sasha's killer. She would have just cried and yell at Gabi for killing Sasha. But, somehow forgive her later on since they talked about what their ancestors have done to the world and all that. I should have remember that this is Attack on Titan after all, but somewhere down the track there will be forgiveness between them.

      Now paradise military meeting from the beginning. I think that went well and can see the reason Pixis choose to surrender towards Eren's Rebel Faction. However, I don't see Eren will buy the whole surrendering thing. Knowing him, Eren probably thinks it is trap or a way to stall for time and are busy finding Zeke his own way.

      What do you guys think?

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Except I'm still trying to enjoy the series, it started out great, but the author isn't exactly throwing bones at us when it comes to chapters that are truly enjoyable without obvious flaws. It just really went downhill after the basement reveal, that was probably the most disappointing moment ever. I just...didn't like the whole concept of Marley and global politics and whatnot. Look I know I despise Gabi, but honestly, aside from Falco, none of the new Marley characters are what I would call crowning achievements, and I was actually quite pleased with what Eren did. 

      I'm a bit more old school with the whole concept of "eye for an eye", so when I read fiction I am a HUGE proponent of revenge and retaliation. I thought AoT would have been the embodiment of that, now it just seems like the same brand of "everyone is redeemable" soup that Naruto gave us. Even though we all know very well that NOT everyone is redeemable. Some characters are complicated and complex, some are just monsters.

      Well if you want a manga about revenge then read Revenge Classroom it might be your cup of tea or "wine". However be warned it may end up being the your next big bluster. I admit you are right the Marely characters are not exactly up to snuff compare to the cast we are used to on Paradis. I guess this is because they are the endgame villains of this series therefore may not be given much development. But I have hope they may be explained or explored a bit more in the future. But you not say the basement reveal was disappointing, that was the thing driving up the series and moving it forward. I thought it was very fitting & explained a lot of what it did. Do you think it could have been done better? You are trying to enjoy the series but it seems like you are struggling.

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    • RuneLai wrote: Maybe not everyone is redeemable, but different characters certainly have different beliefs, so even if you would never forgive Gabi, it's still perfectly possible that her father would. As Neet said, this happens in real life. Not all the time, but it happens, so it's well within the realm of possibility.

      Gabi is a twelve-year-old girl, who has been raised in ridiculous circumstances. She might not have even hit puberty yet. She's young enough to have a lot of flexibility in how she views the world. That's why if she was in the real world and murdered Sasha in just about any first world country, she would be sent to a children's court. Generally speaking, people do not consider children irredeemable.

      Well yeah exactly. Take Kenny Ackerman for example he is not what I call a good man but his redeeming factor of him is about his friend Uri who asked him for forgiveness and he helped raised Levi then leaving him. He is a power hungry killing maniac but he had his reasons and what drove him. Making him a good character but not exactly redeemable.

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    • Warrior655 wrote: The chapter is good in my books. I knew from chapter 108 that the wine are somehow laced with Zeke's spinal fluids. Like poison...nope, it wouldn't do justice. But, with Zeke's spinal fluid...now that will make a interesting situation. However, I didn't anticipated on Falco going to get infected with it...What next.

      Geez, a lot of Gabi haters out there. To me, I can understand from Gabi's POV. After all, a 12 year old girl who was raised to hate the devils of Paradise Island. Only to end up going to the very place she hated because Gabi stormed the airship to get revenge on those devils who killed her friends and attacked Gabi's village. What you guys expect...rainbow and unicorns.

      I didn't expect Kaya wanting to kill Gabi with a knife. After all, she wanted to help them to get back home (Marley). To me, I would've believe that if Kaya have truly find out about Gabi being Sasha's killer. She would have just cried and yell at Gabi for killing Sasha. But, somehow forgive her later on since they talked about what their ancestors have done to the world and all that. I should have remember that this is Attack on Titan after all, but somewhere down the track there will be forgiveness between them.

      Now paradise military meeting from the beginning. I think that went well and can see the reason Pixis choose to surrender towards Eren's Rebel Faction. However, I don't see Eren will buy the whole surrendering thing. Knowing him, Eren probably thinks it is trap or a way to stall for time and are busy finding Zeke his own way.

      What do you guys think?

      There might be forgiveness, there might not be, in fact Kaya can still not forgive her at all but might still help her. I had a feeling the wine was suspiciously made with something like spinal fluid. The actual question is that the spinal fluid can be washed out with water, at least that is what Nicolo said in Falco's case. I always thought Pyxis would make a good high command leader.

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    • This was a really really intense chapter, even without any titans, or Eren, or Zeke, or even Levi.

      So, Nicalo wanted to save the Survey Corps from drinking that wine which included Zeke's spinal fluid? Or did he just not wanted to be caught with it?

      So, I guess this means Zeke's controlling everyone with his spinal fluid, or he's gonna make them all into a titan?

      So, I guess it's obvious that Commander Pixis is being controlled now, considering how he's addicted to wine, he got controlled by Zeke. Anyways, controlled or not, I liked his style. Why waste good mem on fighting each other? When both sides have only one thing to protect, Eldia. So, now he knows the people who know where Zeke and Historia is located in.

      So, the Survey Corps, especially Eren, risked their lives like a hundred times, lost alot of their loved ones during it, revealed the truth about their world, exposed the lies and everyone who was pulling strings behind it, retook the whole the lost land and Wall and killed all the Titans in the Island, and saved the lives of everyone in the Island numerous times, and even gave them an actual kind Queen, who restored the kids in the Underground City and the poor, is being suspected of treachery? This is funny, considering even Eren didn't form this group.

      So, Zeke's idea was to present the Warrior prisioners as a trojan horse and slowly get everyone controlled with his Fluid? Neat. So, why was no one in Marley knowing this? Is it a secret plan of Zeke only with the top officials or himself or plus Pieck. Or is he still planning to restore Eldia, but just wants to control everyone to make it smooth? Or is he planning to make everyone into a Collosus Titan with Eren's and his power?

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    • Winston4278 wrote: Wow...... I'm really torn about Nicolo's reveal. On one hand, those brash MP's will deserve getting their punishment (especially Rogue). But then again, Falco would be punished as well for Nicolo's actions in the heat of the moment.


      But the big thing for me was about Gabi. I think she's finally seen the light!

      Why did you think the MPs deserve?

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    • Freeman1378 wrote: Unfortunately I was not a big fan of this chapter as I found the first half (Pixis and crew talk) merely adequate while I activiely disliked the second half (Gabi). 

      Positives:

      - The wine was confirmed to be spiked with Zeke's spinal fluid so fortunately the alpha plot made tangible progress for once.


      Negatives:

      - Gabi's plotline completely flatlined for me as it was an incredibly sloppy attempt to drive home the themes of the last 20 chapters as there was so much wrong here from the forced interactions, unrealistic moments, general predictablity, emotional manipulation, and logic errors that made the entire plotline go from merely boring to down right terrible. The core problem that I have with this storyline overall though is that it's too easy to see the deus in the machina as this entire chain of events is unbelievable from Gabi happening to be in the same sector as the family of the soldier she slew to the mindboggling military errors (a single guy guarding a prison like c'mon) and then Gabi is placed in a situation thats obviously designed to create drama (Days Of Our Titans) and tries to play emotional cards that the story didn't earn (Kaya's friend line in this chapter was awful as A.) it was unearned and B.) like seriously did Kaya think Gabi/Falco teleported to Paradis?). Another thing I hated was the saint like disposition of Mr. Braus when it came to Gabi as frankly no one in the universe would act that way like show him struggle with the decision a little bit rather than going straight to a heavy handed lecture on forgiving thy enemy. I can't help but feel that at this point that this entire plotline is a lame redo of our original 3 warriors individual arcs with all the subtelty and realism drained out and hopefully this is the merciful end of this arc.

      - Eren and Zeke's lacklustre storyline is also on the verge of collapse for me as it's painfully boring and seems to have confused a slow pace with sinking in quicksand as Zeke spends all his screentime mugging at the panel as the X-Files theme plays (this is the worst mystery box I have ever seen) and Eren despite being the main character/driver of the plot gets to play second fiddle to others while making no progress in his own plot. The biggest issue I have with this storyline though is that everybody in the story keeps saying Zeke/Eren are up to something rather than showing them doing anything and it's honestly immensly grating as Isayama has extremely potent material with the potential fall of Eren into an anti-hero but he keeps focusing on dry scenes of people talking in lifeless rooms about Eren rather than giving us a glimpse into Eren's psyche and his current motivations.

      Yeah I can see those as legit criticisms and hopefully next chapter we get a bit more focus on Zeke & Eren.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote: This was a really really intense chapter, even without any titans, or Eren, or Zeke, or even Levi.

      So, Nicalo wanted to save the Survey Corps from drinking that wine which included Zeke's spinal fluid? Or did he just not wanted to be caught with it?

      So, I guess this means Zeke's controlling everyone with his spinal fluid, or he's gonna make them all into a titan?

      So, I guess it's obvious that Commander Pixis is being controlled now, considering how he's addicted to wine, he got controlled by Zeke. Anyways, controlled or not, I liked his style. Why waste good mem on fighting each other? When both sides have only one thing to protect, Eldia. So, now he knows the people who know where Zeke and Historia is located in.

      So, the Survey Corps, especially Eren, risked their lives like a hundred times, lost alot of their loved ones during it, revealed the truth about their world, exposed the lies and everyone who was pulling strings behind it, retook the whole the lost land and Wall and killed all the Titans in the Island, and saved the lives of everyone in the Island numerous times, and even gave them an actual kind Queen, who restored the kids in the Underground City and the poor, is being suspected of treachery? This is funny, considering even Eren didn't form this group.

      So, Zeke's idea was to present the Warrior prisioners as a trojan horse and slowly get everyone controlled with his Fluid? Neat. So, why was no one in Marley knowing this? Is it a secret plan of Zeke only with the top officials or himself or plus Pieck. Or is he still planning to restore Eldia, but just wants to control everyone to make it smooth? Or is he planning to make everyone into a Collosus Titan with Eren's and his power?

      Can he control people with just his spinal fluid? Although how much spinal fluid can a person have?

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    • I don't know, but since Titan users can easily regenerate any severed body parts, would it not be easy for one to produce/regenerate the more they take.

      Don't know if Zeke can control them or not. But considering how alot of characters got supposedly mysteriously controlled by Zeke, it seems a possibility. I got the hint from Pixis's sudden odd though reasonable change of decisions, that runs on Zeke's favor. and how Hange suspects something or another.

      I don't see much of a problem with Gabi meeting the family of Sasha. Like, this isn't a long running series, and sometimes coincidences happens, and may I add the word 'destiny' for it. I can also understand how he isn't angry over Sasha's murderer, cause one, she's a little girl, two, he and everyone else in Eldia by now knows about the condition and environment Marleyan kids, especially Marleyan Warriors are influenced in. Three, he already knows that joining the Survey Corps, or being a hunter means death will be a likely case. I'm not so in liking to the fact that Sasha just had to be killed by Gabi. I mean, it seems it was more of a bad idea than a good one. Like yes, it gives a big affect to her death and Gabi's character. But this girl is literally being hated to the point that it seems if she even a whole bunch of the characters from a Titan or something, she won't be forgiven by her haters lol. Not much big of a fan of her. But as her character is, she's one that naturally would be hated by characters and fans, but not because of poor writing(except the you know) but because she was intended to be generally a bad person in the viewpoint of Eldians, which most of the fans would be viewing through.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote:
      I don't know, but since Titan users can easily regenerate any severed body parts, would it not be easy for one to produce/regenerate the more they take.

      Don't know if Zeke can control them or not. But considering how alot of characters got supposedly mysteriously controlled by Zeke, it seems a possibility. I got the hint from Pixis's sudden odd though reasonable change of decisions, that runs on Zeke's favor. and how Hange suspects something or another.

      I don't see much of a problem with Gabi meeting the family of Sasha. Like, this isn't a long running series, and sometimes coincidences happens, and may I add the word 'destiny' for it. I can also understand how he isn't angry over Sasha's murderer, cause one, she's a little girl, two, he and everyone else in Eldia by now knows about the condition and environment Marleyan kids, especially Marleyan Warriors are influenced in. Three, he already knows that joining the Survey Corps, or being a hunter means death will be a likely case. I'm not so in liking to the fact that Sasha just had to be killed by Gabi. I mean, it seems it was more of a bad idea than a good one. Like yes, it gives a big affect to her death and Gabi's character. But this girl is literally being hated to the point that it seems if she even a whole bunch of the characters from a Titan or something, she won't be forgiven by her haters lol. Not much big of a fan of her. But as her character is, she's one that naturally would be hated by characters and fans, but not because of poor writing(except the you know) but because she was intended to be generally a bad person in the viewpoint of Eldians, which most of the fans would be viewing through.

      OKay sure. Although if Pixis is being controlled and because of Wine which would be a ironic fitting end for him then well this is out reaching for Zeke making him a known threat. Although this ain't a long running series? This manga has been running for almost a decade right? but I see your point.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      BlazeRelease wrote:
      I don't know, but since Titan users can easily regenerate any severed body parts, would it not be easy for one to produce/regenerate the more they take.

      Don't know if Zeke can control them or not. But considering how alot of characters got supposedly mysteriously controlled by Zeke, it seems a possibility. I got the hint from Pixis's sudden odd though reasonable change of decisions, that runs on Zeke's favor. and how Hange suspects something or another.

      I don't see much of a problem with Gabi meeting the family of Sasha. Like, this isn't a long running series, and sometimes coincidences happens, and may I add the word 'destiny' for it. I can also understand how he isn't angry over Sasha's murderer, cause one, she's a little girl, two, he and everyone else in Eldia by now knows about the condition and environment Marleyan kids, especially Marleyan Warriors are influenced in. Three, he already knows that joining the Survey Corps, or being a hunter means death will be a likely case. I'm not so in liking to the fact that Sasha just had to be killed by Gabi. I mean, it seems it was more of a bad idea than a good one. Like yes, it gives a big affect to her death and Gabi's character. But this girl is literally being hated to the point that it seems if she even a whole bunch of the characters from a Titan or something, she won't be forgiven by her haters lol. Not much big of a fan of her. But as her character is, she's one that naturally would be hated by characters and fans, but not because of poor writing(except the you know) but because she was intended to be generally a bad person in the viewpoint of Eldians, which most of the fans would be viewing through.

      OKay sure. Although if Pixis is being controlled and because of Wine which would be a ironic fitting end for him then well this is out reaching for Zeke making him a known threat. Although this ain't a long running series? This manga has been running for almost a decade right? but I see your point.

      Zeke controlling everyone through his spinal fluid...Wow...a hard thing to swallow. ; )

      I guest Zeke must have developed this ability, if it is true. Or, learned about it due to having royal blood and beast titan combined.

      If so, it begs the question on wondering that his spinal fluid can affect other titan shifters like Eren Yeager and Pieck.

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    • It's the only possible thing I can think of on how everyone is seeminly controlled by Zeke without being in touch with him. Since, Royal blood can change the memories of people and things like that, and Royal Founding/Titan Shifter with Royal blood can control Titans, I guess injecting/intaking a few Titan Spinal fluids will result in him controlling them, even as humans. Or shouldn't the ones that supposedly took Spinal fluids from the mouth be turned into Titans immidietly, maybe I'm just getting confused here.


      Though what I meant from the short series is that, this isn't a long dragging story type of thing, and I think we all know the ones that just drags a story too long with meaningless stuff in it. While suppose Gabi doesn't meet Sasha's family. Which is logical. But what's after that? Do they just wander around the whole forest for the rest of their lives or till Marley comes to attack? That would not be of any meaning to the story. Them meeting each other, that's the kind of destiny and journey that gives in to character development. What better way for Gabi to learn about the truth of Eldians, than from the family of the very first Eldian she saw and killed. It's a bit poetic if I'm right.

      And it seems no one is at all surprised by the little info we got about Zackly(Can't spell his name right), like it seems he was a part of a revolution or possibly the leader of it. And that's how he got to the position and authority he has. His character hasn't exactly been that much given, like there's not much attachment to his character or much of a big deal sense outside of the story. Pixis for one, is a character that is more attached to. I guess, Zackly just didn't have any badass moments for him to be remembered by that much. He's an important figure in the story though.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote: It's the only possible thing I can think of on how everyone is seeminly controlled by Zeke without being in touch with him. Since, Royal blood can change the memories of people and things like that, and Royal Founding/Titan Shifter with Royal blood can control Titans, I guess injecting/intaking a few Titan Spinal fluids will result in him controlling them, even as humans. Or shouldn't the ones that supposedly took Spinal fluids from the mouth be turned into Titans immidietly, maybe I'm just getting confused here.


      Though what I meant from the short series is that, this isn't a long dragging story type of thing, and I think we all know the ones that just drags a story too long with meaningless stuff in it. While suppose Gabi doesn't meet Sasha's family. Which is logical. But what's after that? Do they just wander around the whole forest for the rest of their lives or till Marley comes to attack? That would not be of any meaning to the story. Them meeting each other, that's the kind of destiny and journey that gives in to character development. What better way for Gabi to learn about the truth of Eldians, than from the family of the very first Eldian she saw and killed. It's a bit poetic if I'm right.

      And it seems no one is at all surprised by the little info we got about Zackly(Can't spell his name right), like it seems he was a part of a revolution or possibly the leader of it. And that's how he got to the position and authority he has. His character hasn't exactly been that much given, like there's not much attachment to his character or much of a big deal sense outside of the story. Pixis for one, is a character that is more attached to. I guess, Zackly just didn't have any badass moments for him to be remembered by that much. He's an important figure in the story though.

      It is a possibility since we don't know much about royal blood and titan shifters combined like Zeke Yeager. There is even a possibility about this phenomenon which caused Eldians to behave like world conquers and mass rapist (if their history is genuinely true) in the first place.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Except I'm still trying to enjoy the series, it started out great, but the author isn't exactly throwing bones at us when it comes to chapters that are truly enjoyable without obvious flaws. It just really went downhill after the basement reveal, that was probably the most disappointing moment ever. I just...didn't like the whole concept of Marley and global politics and whatnot. Look I know I despise Gabi, but honestly, aside from Falco, none of the new Marley characters are what I would call crowning achievements, and I was actually quite pleased with what Eren did. 

      I'm a bit more old school with the whole concept of "eye for an eye", so when I read fiction I am a HUGE proponent of revenge and retaliation. I thought AoT would have been the embodiment of that, now it just seems like the same brand of "everyone is redeemable" soup that Naruto gave us. Even though we all know very well that NOT everyone is redeemable. Some characters are complicated and complex, some are just monsters.

      Well if you want a manga about revenge then read Revenge Classroom it might be your cup of tea or "wine". However be warned it may end up being the your next big bluster. I admit you are right the Marely characters are not exactly up to snuff compare to the cast we are used to on Paradis. I guess this is because they are the endgame villains of this series therefore may not be given much development. But I have hope they may be explained or explored a bit more in the future. But you not say the basement reveal was disappointing, that was the thing driving up the series and moving it forward. I thought it was very fitting & explained a lot of what it did. Do you think it could have been done better? You are trying to enjoy the series but it seems like you are struggling.

      Defiinitely struggling as of the past year. I wasn't even upset by the whole serum bowl controversy like the rest of the fandom seemed to be. It was the big reveal of the outside world that I really had doubts about the future of the series. The way they had explained the nature of the Titans before, my impression was that it would end up being some kind of apocalyptic event that caused the events prior to the series, or that it would be a bit more mystical in terms of legends like Ymir and the "Devil" and so forth. Big evil government from across the ocean was...not a good story element. I didn't like it in the least, it was such a letdown. That's when I started to realize Isayama had jumped the shark and that the writing had been slowly but surely going downhill. I'm still trying to stick with it since I liked the beginning, but lately the cons have outweighed the pros.

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    • Ah, I for one preferred the twist, the twist kind of made sense for the whole story, with the Reiss Family/Founding King changing the memories of people and hiding the secrets of the world. The idea was that King Fritz made the story up the story/lore of AOT's begining, with the whole apocalypse things. The only reason he would hide secrets and make people think that the whole world is already at it's end is because they wouldn't think of the opposite. That the world never had an apocalypse. That it was all a big fat lie. The only meaning for someone to lie that the whole world is in a post apocalyptic world is to hide the fact that it isn't. The beginning story served it's purpose as a lie. That's how a twist can perfectly work.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote:
      Ah, I for one preferred the twist, the twist kind of made sense for the whole story, with the Reiss Family/Founding King changing the memories of people and hiding the secrets of the world. The idea was that King Fritz made the story up the story/lore of AOT's begining, with the whole apocalypse things. The only reason he would hide secrets and make people think that the whole world is already at it's end is because they wouldn't think of the opposite. That the world never had an apocalypse. That it was all a big fat lie. The only meaning for someone to lie that the whole world is in a post apocalyptic world is to hide the fact that it isn't. The beginning story served it's purpose as a lie. That's how a twist can perfectly work.

      I do agree that the beginning of a story ending up as a lie can be a good twist. Just not for AoT. It just didn't do it for me, World War Whatever just has no appeal or value to me compared to what it seemed like we were going to get.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Except I'm still trying to enjoy the series, it started out great, but the author isn't exactly throwing bones at us when it comes to chapters that are truly enjoyable without obvious flaws. It just really went downhill after the basement reveal, that was probably the most disappointing moment ever. I just...didn't like the whole concept of Marley and global politics and whatnot. Look I know I despise Gabi, but honestly, aside from Falco, none of the new Marley characters are what I would call crowning achievements, and I was actually quite pleased with what Eren did. 

      I'm a bit more old school with the whole concept of "eye for an eye", so when I read fiction I am a HUGE proponent of revenge and retaliation. I thought AoT would have been the embodiment of that, now it just seems like the same brand of "everyone is redeemable" soup that Naruto gave us. Even though we all know very well that NOT everyone is redeemable. Some characters are complicated and complex, some are just monsters.

      Well if you want a manga about revenge then read Revenge Classroom it might be your cup of tea or "wine". However be warned it may end up being the your next big bluster. I admit you are right the Marely characters are not exactly up to snuff compare to the cast we are used to on Paradis. I guess this is because they are the endgame villains of this series therefore may not be given much development. But I have hope they may be explained or explored a bit more in the future. But you not say the basement reveal was disappointing, that was the thing driving up the series and moving it forward. I thought it was very fitting & explained a lot of what it did. Do you think it could have been done better? You are trying to enjoy the series but it seems like you are struggling.

      Defiinitely struggling as of the past year. I wasn't even upset by the whole serum bowl controversy like the rest of the fandom seemed to be. It was the big reveal of the outside world that I really had doubts about the future of the series. The way they had explained the nature of the Titans before, my impression was that it would end up being some kind of apocalyptic event that caused the events prior to the series, or that it would be a bit more mystical in terms of legends like Ymir and the "Devil" and so forth. Big evil government from across the ocean was...not a good story element. I didn't like it in the least, it was such a letdown. That's when I started to realize Isayama had jumped the shark and that the writing had been slowly but surely going downhill. I'm still trying to stick with it since I liked the beginning, but lately the cons have outweighed the pros.

      I mean the series is reaching its endgame or conclusion soon. So I guess that means whatever goes as the series is reaching its ending. Since the outside world was also the goal, but what comes after is there more to discuss? I mean if the series is just dragging along because its a popular franchise then yes it jumped the shark, but I don't think it has happened yet we shall see. I kinda wonder if YouTubers who review the Marely arc will feel the same way as you?

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Except I'm still trying to enjoy the series, it started out great, but the author isn't exactly throwing bones at us when it comes to chapters that are truly enjoyable without obvious flaws. It just really went downhill after the basement reveal, that was probably the most disappointing moment ever. I just...didn't like the whole concept of Marley and global politics and whatnot. Look I know I despise Gabi, but honestly, aside from Falco, none of the new Marley characters are what I would call crowning achievements, and I was actually quite pleased with what Eren did. 

      I'm a bit more old school with the whole concept of "eye for an eye", so when I read fiction I am a HUGE proponent of revenge and retaliation. I thought AoT would have been the embodiment of that, now it just seems like the same brand of "everyone is redeemable" soup that Naruto gave us. Even though we all know very well that NOT everyone is redeemable. Some characters are complicated and complex, some are just monsters.

      Well if you want a manga about revenge then read Revenge Classroom it might be your cup of tea or "wine". However be warned it may end up being the your next big bluster. I admit you are right the Marely characters are not exactly up to snuff compare to the cast we are used to on Paradis. I guess this is because they are the endgame villains of this series therefore may not be given much development. But I have hope they may be explained or explored a bit more in the future. But you not say the basement reveal was disappointing, that was the thing driving up the series and moving it forward. I thought it was very fitting & explained a lot of what it did. Do you think it could have been done better? You are trying to enjoy the series but it seems like you are struggling.
      Defiinitely struggling as of the past year. I wasn't even upset by the whole serum bowl controversy like the rest of the fandom seemed to be. It was the big reveal of the outside world that I really had doubts about the future of the series. The way they had explained the nature of the Titans before, my impression was that it would end up being some kind of apocalyptic event that caused the events prior to the series, or that it would be a bit more mystical in terms of legends like Ymir and the "Devil" and so forth. Big evil government from across the ocean was...not a good story element. I didn't like it in the least, it was such a letdown. That's when I started to realize Isayama had jumped the shark and that the writing had been slowly but surely going downhill. I'm still trying to stick with it since I liked the beginning, but lately the cons have outweighed the pros.
      I mean the series is reaching its endgame or conclusion soon. So I guess that means whatever goes as the series is reaching its ending. Since the outside world was also the goal, but what comes after is there more to discuss? I mean if the series is just dragging along because its a popular franchise then yes it jumped the shark, but I don't think it has happened yet we shall see. I kinda wonder if YouTubers who review the Marely arc will feel the same way as you?

      I'm sure there will be some, YouTube seems to consist of the most hate in any fandom anyway, especially for something as big as AoT. But before Marley arc, I had no reason to agree with them on negativity. Now it's pretty much what I feel after each new chapter, sans 110, I really hoped things would improve after that.

      But back to the current chapter, I just cannot for the life of me understand why people see Mr. Blouse's anti-revenge speech as some moving and amazing moment, or how they could so easily forgive Mikasa and Gabi for what they did. Gabi's crimes are obvious, but Mikasa, as a soldier, should have known better. And Mr. Blouse's disposition of not taking revenge is, in my book, a sign of weakness and extreme cowardice. I almost wouldn't want him for a father.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote: Defiinitely struggling as of the past year. I wasn't even upset by the whole serum bowl controversy like the rest of the fandom seemed to be. It was the big reveal of the outside world that I really had doubts about the future of the series. The way they had explained the nature of the Titans before, my impression was that it would end up being some kind of apocalyptic event that caused the events prior to the series, or that it would be a bit more mystical in terms of legends like Ymir and the "Devil" and so forth. Big evil government from across the ocean was...not a good story element. I didn't like it in the least, it was such a letdown. That's when I started to realize Isayama had jumped the shark and that the writing had been slowly but surely going downhill. I'm still trying to stick with it since I liked the beginning, but lately the cons have outweighed the pros.

      Sometimes, I think that Isayama just creates side characters or minor plot elements in case he wants to bring them back later: "You'll be relevant later, maybe." I feel like Louise was one of these -- yes, she was drawn, but she wasn't assigned a specific purpose until much later on in the story planning. She has a pretty plain design and could easily be mistaken for somebody else. However, I don't think the King Karl Fritz reveal was planned exclusively in the Uprising arc. Meanwhile, big evil government might have been planned from the start, but the reveal of it could have initially not been considered to be included within the series.

      Notice how 94-96 seem slow/repetitive? I'm guessing that Isayama used that time to come up with either the ending, a method for arranging the chapters we are in now (flashbacks vs. real-time), or coming up with everything we have now (as in late Marley arc to now). It's sort of agreeable why you think the writing is going downhill -- the Marley arc is the least connected arc to everything else. It's like Isayama improvised it, except he's really good at improvising.

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    • TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote: Defiinitely struggling as of the past year. I wasn't even upset by the whole serum bowl controversy like the rest of the fandom seemed to be. It was the big reveal of the outside world that I really had doubts about the future of the series. The way they had explained the nature of the Titans before, my impression was that it would end up being some kind of apocalyptic event that caused the events prior to the series, or that it would be a bit more mystical in terms of legends like Ymir and the "Devil" and so forth. Big evil government from across the ocean was...not a good story element. I didn't like it in the least, it was such a letdown. That's when I started to realize Isayama had jumped the shark and that the writing had been slowly but surely going downhill. I'm still trying to stick with it since I liked the beginning, but lately the cons have outweighed the pros.

      Sometimes, I think that Isayama just creates side characters or minor plot elements in case he wants to bring them back later: "You'll be relevant later, maybe." I feel like Louise was one of these -- yes, she was drawn, but she wasn't assigned a specific purpose until much later on in the story planning. She has a pretty plain design and could easily be mistaken for somebody else. However, I don't think the King Karl Fritz reveal was planned exclusively in the Uprising arc. Meanwhile, big evil government might have been planned from the start, but the reveal of it could have initially not been considered to be included within the series.

      Notice how 94-96 seem slow/repetitive? I'm guessing that Isayama used that time to come up with either the ending, a method for arranging the chapters we are in now (flashbacks vs. real-time), or coming up with everything we have now (as in late Marley arc to now). It's sort of agreeable why you think the writing is going downhill -- the Marley arc is the least connected arc to everything else. It's like Isayama improvised it, except he's really good at improvising.

      I'm going to have to disagree with that because the Marley arc is the perfect example of how not to structure a story; too long to go back to the main characters, unlikable new ones, random off-screen deaths and quick replacements (I'm still a little salty about Ymir being replaced off-screen by a flat and boring imitation), and when we finally do go back to the main characters, suddenly they're the villains? Not to mention I'm a bit skeptical of the subtle but cleverly hidden Nazi-apologist dogma it seemed to be preaching. If it was improvised, he should probably consider having a better outline/bullet points for future chapters. If it was planned, Isayama is not as good of a writer as he is made out to be, with this new chapter being the latest example.

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    • According to my big Attack on Titan theory, Zeke and Eren are going to compete for the same goal: to unify the 9 titan powers in one single person, becoming a god capable to change the world. Zeke has royal blood, Eren has 3 titans (included founder).

      In the middle of this competition are the eldian army (totally confused), marleyan warriors (now in the island) and Gabi/Falco.

      Maybe, coming soon we'll see Eren saying to Levi "Make a choice" about him vs Zeke, Falco becoming a titan and killing someone important, Marleyans counter-attacking, and Armin and Mikasa realising Eren didn't change (he just goes ahead alone, as always).

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    • Inferos2001 wrote: According to my big Attack on Titan theory, Zeke and Eren are going to compete for the same goal: to unify the 9 titan powers in one single person, becoming a god capable to change the world. Zeke has royal blood, Eren has 3 titans (included founder).

      In the middle of this competition are the eldian army (totally confused), marleyan warriors (now in the island) and Gabi/Falco.

      Maybe, coming soon we'll see Eren saying to Levi "Make a choice" about him vs Zeke, Falco becoming a titan and killing someone important, Marleyans counter-attacking, and Armin and Mikasa realising Eren didn't change (he just goes ahead alone, as always).

      That almost sounds being legit.

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    • Some of you guys hating Gabi are ridicilous.  Yes, she killed Sasha. Yes, she is an unlikable character at this point. Yes, Sasha's parents "SHOULD HAVE KILLED GABI" but Sasha's parents realize she's a child and clearly has been told many lies. Taking her life DOESN'T BRING BACK SASHA. 

      Of course Mikasa wouldn't kill Gabi. They're all Eldians here. One was trapped in walls and demonized and the other Eldians have a fake "superiority" because they reside in Marley while living in ghettos yet are just as much devils as the ones on Paradis. 

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    • Inferos2001 wrote: According to my big Attack on Titan theory, Zeke and Eren are going to compete for the same goal: to unify the 9 titan powers in one single person, becoming a god capable to change the world. Zeke has royal blood, Eren has 3 titans (included founder).

      In the middle of this competition are the eldian army (totally confused), marleyan warriors (now in the island) and Gabi/Falco.

      Maybe, coming soon we'll see Eren saying to Levi "Make a choice" about him vs Zeke, Falco becoming a titan and killing someone important, Marleyans counter-attacking, and Armin and Mikasa realising Eren didn't change (he just goes ahead alone, as always).

      A interesting theory, and I believe that it could happen. After all I don't believe that Eren Yeager has become evil. No, I think he is more of a anti-hero wanting to protect his friends and kingdom. He will show up where both Levi and Zeke resides at the forests. Levi confronts him about what he have heard from messengers earlier. There will be confrontation between them, but Levi will soon realize that Eren is still a good guy with his own agendas.

      Like I been saying a few times in previous forums. I believe Zeke Yeager has his own agenda, which involves getting to Eren easily by dividing Paradise. He wants to convince his little half brother that their Father is wrong. Then, force his own ideas upon him by holding those who Eren cares at gun point, metaphor speaking. He will no doubt hold all of paradise as hostages by threatening to turn everyone into titans, and confront Eren about his ideas and so forth.

      Falco turning into a titan, I will say 50% possibility. There is a likely chance that he won't be turned into a titan. From what I have gathered so far, those who are infected by Zeke's spinal fluid needs to be within earshot of his loving singing voice ; ) for them turning into titans. So Falco can be saved if he is out of range...in theory.

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    • Pepper14832 wrote: Some of you guys hating Gabi are ridicilous.  Yes, she killed Sasha. Yes, she is an unlikable character at this point. Yes, Sasha's parents "SHOULD HAVE KILLED GABI" but Sasha's parents realizes she's a child and clearly has been told many lies. Taking her life DOESN'T BRING BACK SASHA. 

      Mikasa the most wouldn't kill Gabi. They're all Eldians here, one was trapped and walls and demonized and the other Eldians have a fake "superiority" because they reside in Marely while living in ghettos yet are just as much as devils as the ones on Paradis. 

      Definitely true, if everyone has paid attention from earlier chapters. The people from paradise once believed they were only ones who survived from titan apocalypse. But then, they found out the truth and continued from there, although a bit dark. Gabi is no different from Paradise before the truth. She is now learning about the truth of her would be enemies and she'll continue to do so in future chapters.

      What Mr Braus/Blouse did is a noble act on ending a cycle of hatred by saying 'Enough'. He agreed that the shame and guilt of past events should fall on adults, not kids. I believe that he did the right thing.

      Two thumbs up for ya.

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    • Pepper14832 wrote: Some of you guys hating Gabi are ridicilous.  Yes, she killed Sasha. Yes, she is an unlikable character at this point. Yes, Sasha's parents "SHOULD HAVE KILLED GABI" but Sasha's parents realizes she's a child and clearly has been told many lies. Taking her life DOESN'T BRING BACK SASHA. 

      I hate her because all she is and ever has been is "Oh their devils!" "Oh, I Hate the Eldians SOOO much" she holds back the story by taking (on average) 3-5 pages to go on about how much hates Eldians. Isayama is practically copy and pasting her dialog at this point. Killing her would be better for the story than keeping her alive.

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    • MrDucking wrote:

      Pepper14832 wrote: Some of you guys hating Gabi are ridicilous.  Yes, she killed Sasha. Yes, she is an unlikable character at this point. Yes, Sasha's parents "SHOULD HAVE KILLED GABI" but Sasha's parents realizes she's a child and clearly has been told many lies. Taking her life DOESN'T BRING BACK SASHA. 

      I hate her because all she is and ever has been is "Oh their devils!" "Oh, I Hate the Eldians SOOO much" she holds back the story by taking (on average) 3-5 pages to go on about how much hates Eldians. Isayama is practically copy and pasting her dialog at this point. Killing her would be better for the story than keeping her alive.

      You got to remember, she was raised to think like that. Imagine you know of a enemy since birth, growing up to hate them. Then one day, You met the so-call enemy and found out that they aren't what you've led to believed. That is what happening to Gabi right now.

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    • RuneLai wrote: I guess I'm an outlier as I quite enjoyed this chapter. I liked seeing the military deal with the fallout in the first half and seeing Pixis take over as the new head of the military. Obviously nothing formal yet, but he's the de facto leader right now. He's pretty canny and people respect him.

      I also enjoyed Nile and Rogue's arguing, which is something that I think should have been shown in one form or another in previous chapters featuring the Military Police. There's often been a disconnect between Nile's behavior and how other MP officers behave when he's not around. Having Nile and Rogue together is nice in that we actually see the differing POVs at the same time rather than having the schitzo "we're being reasonable/we only exist to get in your way" depending on whether Nile's around.

      And Rogue is totally going to turn into a Titan later, given that he was guzzling all that wine from Nicolo. Nile might not have drank any, seeing as he seemed to disapprove of Rogue's drinking and he didn't have a glass in front of him.

      The second half was predictable. Obviously Gabi and Falco would meet up with Nicolo given that Kaya invited them along. What I did not expect though was Nicolo's reaction. I didn't realize the guy had forged such a strong connection with Sasha, to the point he would try to avenge her, and I think this was a bit of a misstep.

      While it was nice seeing his questioning leading Gabi to spill the beans that she killed her, I think this could have been more effective if we'd seen more of Nicolo and Sasha in the flashback, because Isayama is asking us to believe that Nicolo cared that much for her without showing us that he did. Having him pop up at her grave to meet her family isn't really enough.

      But even though it was predictable, it hit all the right beats. Kaya wanting to kill Gabi felt rather strong. I expected yelling and screaming rather than a knife, but served to hammer home the point to Gabi that the world isn't as black and white as she thinks. Considering that Gabi has spent enough time with Kaya to understand her a bit, this probably hurts more than Nicolo trying to kill and Falco.

      The spinal fluid reveal was nice, but I have to wonder just how they got bottles of wine with his fluid conveniently mixed inside. I was under the impression the MPs drank a lot, and they could probably polish off a single bottle in one sitting. So just how much fluid is needed to contaminate a bottle? And when did they find the time to do this? Zeke's been under watch ever since he arrived.

      You're not an outlier. Reaction to this chapter on Reddit has been quite positive. I'm honestly shocked at the negativity this series seems to get on its own wiki.

      No story is without its flaws, and AOT is no exception, but this latest chapter has solidified the Marley arc as my favorite arc in the whole series. I think it was excellently handled, and I loved seeing Gabi come full circle and finally realize she was wrong to blindly hate the Paradisians. Hopefully Mr. Blouse's forgiveness and Kaya's display of the same anger Gabi had unleashed against Sasha will finally break the brainwashing.

      I'm very concerned for Nile, Hange, Pixis, and Falco, though. All four of them either definitely drank liquids contaminated with Zeke's spinal fluid or drank liquids that could have potentially been spiked (Pixis with Yelena and Hange with Onyankopon).

      I also think that Kiyomi Azumabito is in on the Yeager bros' plan.

      All in all, one of my favorite chapters. 10/10

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    • Warrior655 wrote:

      MrDucking wrote:

      Pepper14832 wrote: Some of you guys hating Gabi are ridicilous.  Yes, she killed Sasha. Yes, she is an unlikable character at this point. Yes, Sasha's parents "SHOULD HAVE KILLED GABI" but Sasha's parents realizes she's a child and clearly has been told many lies. Taking her life DOESN'T BRING BACK SASHA. 

      I hate her because all she is and ever has been is "Oh their devils!" "Oh, I Hate the Eldians SOOO much" she holds back the story by taking (on average) 3-5 pages to go on about how much hates Eldians. Isayama is practically copy and pasting her dialog at this point. Killing her would be better for the story than keeping her alive.

      You got to remember, she was raised to think like that. Imagine you know of a enemy since birth, growing up to hate them. Then one day, You met the so-call enemy and found out that they aren't what you've led to believed. That is what happening to Gabi right now.

      Yes but it's not the in world Gabi I hate it's the fact that she's wasting pages in the manga (which we only get 50 pages of every month) to go on about how much she hates Eldians instead of advancing the story.

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    • MrDucking wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:

      MrDucking wrote:

      Pepper14832 wrote: Some of you guys hating Gabi are ridicilous.  Yes, she killed Sasha. Yes, she is an unlikable character at this point. Yes, Sasha's parents "SHOULD HAVE KILLED GABI" but Sasha's parents realizes she's a child and clearly has been told many lies. Taking her life DOESN'T BRING BACK SASHA. 

      I hate her because all she is and ever has been is "Oh their devils!" "Oh, I Hate the Eldians SOOO much" she holds back the story by taking (on average) 3-5 pages to go on about how much hates Eldians. Isayama is practically copy and pasting her dialog at this point. Killing her would be better for the story than keeping her alive.

      You got to remember, she was raised to think like that. Imagine you know of a enemy since birth, growing up to hate them. Then one day, You met the so-call enemy and found out that they aren't what you've led to believed. That is what happening to Gabi right now.

      Yes but it's not the in world Gabi I hate it's the fact that she's wasting pages in the manga (which we only get 50 pages of every month) to go on about how much she hates Eldians instead of advancing the story.

      She will get her own actual story thats not all anti-Eldian bull crap for dialogue.  

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      RuneLai wrote: I guess I'm an outlier as I quite enjoyed this chapter. I liked seeing the military deal with the fallout in the first half and seeing Pixis take over as the new head of the military. Obviously nothing formal yet, but he's the de facto leader right now. He's pretty canny and people respect him.

      I also enjoyed Nile and Rogue's arguing, which is something that I think should have been shown in one form or another in previous chapters featuring the Military Police. There's often been a disconnect between Nile's behavior and how other MP officers behave when he's not around. Having Nile and Rogue together is nice in that we actually see the differing POVs at the same time rather than having the schitzo "we're being reasonable/we only exist to get in your way" depending on whether Nile's around.

      And Rogue is totally going to turn into a Titan later, given that he was guzzling all that wine from Nicolo. Nile might not have drank any, seeing as he seemed to disapprove of Rogue's drinking and he didn't have a glass in front of him.

      The second half was predictable. Obviously Gabi and Falco would meet up with Nicolo given that Kaya invited them along. What I did not expect though was Nicolo's reaction. I didn't realize the guy had forged such a strong connection with Sasha, to the point he would try to avenge her, and I think this was a bit of a misstep.

      While it was nice seeing his questioning leading Gabi to spill the beans that she killed her, I think this could have been more effective if we'd seen more of Nicolo and Sasha in the flashback, because Isayama is asking us to believe that Nicolo cared that much for her without showing us that he did. Having him pop up at her grave to meet her family isn't really enough.

      But even though it was predictable, it hit all the right beats. Kaya wanting to kill Gabi felt rather strong. I expected yelling and screaming rather than a knife, but served to hammer home the point to Gabi that the world isn't as black and white as she thinks. Considering that Gabi has spent enough time with Kaya to understand her a bit, this probably hurts more than Nicolo trying to kill and Falco.

      The spinal fluid reveal was nice, but I have to wonder just how they got bottles of wine with his fluid conveniently mixed inside. I was under the impression the MPs drank a lot, and they could probably polish off a single bottle in one sitting. So just how much fluid is needed to contaminate a bottle? And when did they find the time to do this? Zeke's been under watch ever since he arrived.

      You're not an outlier. Reaction to this chapter on Reddit has been quite positive. I'm honestly shocked at the negativity this series seems to get on its own wiki.

      No story is without its flaws, and AOT is no exception, but this latest chapter has solidified the Marley arc as my favorite arc in the whole series. I think it was excellently handled, and I loved seeing Gabi come full circle and finally realize she was wrong to blindly hate the Paradisians. Hopefully Mr. Blouse's forgiveness and Kaya's display of the same anger Gabi had unleashed against Sasha will finally break the brainwashing.

      I'm very concerned for Nile, Hange, Pixis, and Falco, though. All four of them either definitely drank liquids contaminated with Zeke's spinal fluid or drank liquids that could have potentially been spiked (Pixis with Yelena and Hange with Onyankopon).

      I also think that Kiyomi Azumabito is in on the Yeager bros' plan.

      All in all, one of my favorite chapters. 10/10

      I guess that's because Reddit has a bit more mature-ish open minded audience.

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    • MrDucking wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:

      MrDucking wrote:

      Pepper14832 wrote: Some of you guys hating Gabi are ridicilous.  Yes, she killed Sasha. Yes, she is an unlikable character at this point. Yes, Sasha's parents "SHOULD HAVE KILLED GABI" but Sasha's parents realizes she's a child and clearly has been told many lies. Taking her life DOESN'T BRING BACK SASHA. 

      I hate her because all she is and ever has been is "Oh their devils!" "Oh, I Hate the Eldians SOOO much" she holds back the story by taking (on average) 3-5 pages to go on about how much hates Eldians. Isayama is practically copy and pasting her dialog at this point. Killing her would be better for the story than keeping her alive.

      You got to remember, she was raised to think like that. Imagine you know of a enemy since birth, growing up to hate them. Then one day, You met the so-call enemy and found out that they aren't what you've led to believed. That is what happening to Gabi right now.

      Yes but it's not the in world Gabi I hate it's the fact that she's wasting pages in the manga (which we only get 50 pages of every month) to go on about how much she hates Eldians instead of advancing the story.

      It's called Character Development. 

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      RuneLai wrote: I guess I'm an outlier as I quite enjoyed this chapter. I liked seeing the military deal with the fallout in the first half and seeing Pixis take over as the new head of the military. Obviously nothing formal yet, but he's the de facto leader right now. He's pretty canny and people respect him.

      I also enjoyed Nile and Rogue's arguing, which is something that I think should have been shown in one form or another in previous chapters featuring the Military Police. There's often been a disconnect between Nile's behavior and how other MP officers behave when he's not around. Having Nile and Rogue together is nice in that we actually see the differing POVs at the same time rather than having the schitzo "we're being reasonable/we only exist to get in your way" depending on whether Nile's around.

      And Rogue is totally going to turn into a Titan later, given that he was guzzling all that wine from Nicolo. Nile might not have drank any, seeing as he seemed to disapprove of Rogue's drinking and he didn't have a glass in front of him.

      The second half was predictable. Obviously Gabi and Falco would meet up with Nicolo given that Kaya invited them along. What I did not expect though was Nicolo's reaction. I didn't realize the guy had forged such a strong connection with Sasha, to the point he would try to avenge her, and I think this was a bit of a misstep.

      While it was nice seeing his questioning leading Gabi to spill the beans that she killed her, I think this could have been more effective if we'd seen more of Nicolo and Sasha in the flashback, because Isayama is asking us to believe that Nicolo cared that much for her without showing us that he did. Having him pop up at her grave to meet her family isn't really enough.

      But even though it was predictable, it hit all the right beats. Kaya wanting to kill Gabi felt rather strong. I expected yelling and screaming rather than a knife, but served to hammer home the point to Gabi that the world isn't as black and white as she thinks. Considering that Gabi has spent enough time with Kaya to understand her a bit, this probably hurts more than Nicolo trying to kill and Falco.

      The spinal fluid reveal was nice, but I have to wonder just how they got bottles of wine with his fluid conveniently mixed inside. I was under the impression the MPs drank a lot, and they could probably polish off a single bottle in one sitting. So just how much fluid is needed to contaminate a bottle? And when did they find the time to do this? Zeke's been under watch ever since he arrived.

      You're not an outlier. Reaction to this chapter on Reddit has been quite positive. I'm honestly shocked at the negativity this series seems to get on its own wiki.

      No story is without its flaws, and AOT is no exception, but this latest chapter has solidified the Marley arc as my favorite arc in the whole series. I think it was excellently handled, and I loved seeing Gabi come full circle and finally realize she was wrong to blindly hate the Paradisians. Hopefully Mr. Blouse's forgiveness and Kaya's display of the same anger Gabi had unleashed against Sasha will finally break the brainwashing.

      I'm very concerned for Nile, Hange, Pixis, and Falco, though. All four of them either definitely drank liquids contaminated with Zeke's spinal fluid or drank liquids that could have potentially been spiked (Pixis with Yelena and Hange with Onyankopon).

      I also think that Kiyomi Azumabito is in on the Yeager bros' plan.

      All in all, one of my favorite chapters. 10/10

      Tumblr is a bit more mixed in their reception. Most found it either acceptable or awful, but no one outright said it was the best thing since sliced bread. Of course, everyone and their mothers is concerned about Falco and the Gabi hate is still alive (both of which I agree with), and yeah definitely a lot of discourse about the Hizuru clan and just how involved they are with Zeke's apparent plan. Lot of people demonizing Nicolo (I'm neutral about it due to the aforementioned Falco/Gabi opinion above), but definitely quite a bit of hate for Mikasa and Mr. Blouse, which tbh I feel as well. Mr. Blouse was pathetic so I was pretty disappointed that he's this month's FA, and Mikasa....well, I don't like her anymore, lost a LOT of respect for her. I get the whole 'forgiveness' thing Isayama is going for, but honestly I don't care, what Mikasa did left a very sour taste in my mouth.

      I already gave my overall ranking of this chapter so I'm not gonna keep repeating it.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Tumblr is a bit more mixed in their reception. Most found it either acceptable or awful, but no one outright said it was the best thing since sliced bread. Of course, everyone and their mothers is concerned about Falco and the Gabi hate is still alive (both of which I agree with), and yeah definitely a lot of discourse about the Hizuru clan and just how involved they are with Zeke's apparent plan. Lot of people demonizing Nicolo (I'm neutral about it due to the aforementioned Falco/Gabi opinion above), but definitely quite a bit of hate for Mikasa and Mr. Blouse, which tbh I feel as well. Mr. Blouse was pathetic so I was pretty disappointed that he's this month's FA, and Mikasa....well, I don't like her anymore, lost a LOT of respect for her. I get the whole 'forgiveness' thing Isayama is going for, but honestly I don't care, what Mikasa did left a very sour taste in my mouth.

      I already gave my overall ranking of this chapter so I'm not gonna keep repeating it.

      I really don't pay attention to Tumblr.

      I never said it was the best thing since sliced bread, but I don't understand the hate levied against it. I can see why some people might not like arcs like this one and Uprising as much because they don't have a lot to do with the Titans, but they are fabulous world/character building arcs and I personally love them the most for it.

      See, it's so hard for me to demonize anyone in this series because they *all* have complex motivations and there's no real black and white (unlike what Gabi was brainwashed to think). So even after Gabi killed my waifu Sasha, I couldn't bring myself to hate her because I understand that Gabi grew up being brainwashed by Marley to hate the Paradisian "devils", and she also saw people she cared about killed right in front of her.

      Why hate for Mikasa? Because she stayed Kaya's hand? Mr. Blouse had just given an (IMO) epic speech about why the cycle of hatred needs to end, and that the adults should not pass it down to their children (this reminded me so much of the Fishman Island arc in One Piece, because it dealt with very similar themes), but Kaya had a knee-jerk reaction (just like Gabi had on the airship) and tried to take vengeance for Sasha. The adults in the room (minus Nikolo) understood that the cycle of violence needs to end. It's been going on and on for centuries. They truly want the hostilities to cease with the next generation.

      Why do you think Mr. Blouse was pathetic? I'm honestly very curious. I think he was quite the opposite. It takes a lot of courage and fortitude to look your daughter's killer in the eye and not seek vengeance or retribution. He understands that the world is not black and white and his child was caught up in the "forest" of the world. While he may not truly forgive Gabi, he has no desire to harm her, because in the end, what would it accomplish? If he had killed her, would it bring Sasha back? Would it take away the pain of her death? No, and he knows that.

      I'd also like to know why you lost respect for Mikasa. If she had let Kaya kill Gabi, what kind of example would she be setting? Enough blood has been spilled already, and she knows this. Again, taking a life as retribution for another life taken is not the answer.

      You seem to want some kind of revenge series, which is not what Isayama is going for. His story and his characters' motivations are *much* more complex than that. And for that, I am glad.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      You're not an outlier. Reaction to this chapter on Reddit has been quite positive. I'm honestly shocked at the negativity this series seems to get on its own wiki.

      No story is without its flaws, and AOT is no exception, but this latest chapter has solidified the Marley arc as my favorite arc in the whole series. I think it was excellently handled, and I loved seeing Gabi come full circle and finally realize she was wrong to blindly hate the Paradisians. Hopefully Mr. Blouse's forgiveness and Kaya's display of the same anger Gabi had unleashed against Sasha will finally break the brainwashing.

      I'm very concerned for Nile, Hange, Pixis, and Falco, though. All four of them either definitely drank liquids contaminated with Zeke's spinal fluid or drank liquids that could have potentially been spiked (Pixis with Yelena and Hange with Onyankopon).

      I also think that Kiyomi Azumabito is in on the Yeager bros' plan.

      All in all, one of my favorite chapters. 10/10

      That's nice to know! I think the wiki tends to draw in negativity because this site is dedicated to the series. If you go to Reddit and you're involved in multiple subreddits you might wander off to the next thing before getting your rant on. :)

      And I agree, Kiyomi is totally in on the deal. She was the middleman who got everyone where they needed to be.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Tumblr is a bit more mixed in their reception. Most found it either acceptable or awful, but no one outright said it was the best thing since sliced bread. Of course, everyone and their mothers is concerned about Falco and the Gabi hate is still alive (both of which I agree with), and yeah definitely a lot of discourse about the Hizuru clan and just how involved they are with Zeke's apparent plan. Lot of people demonizing Nicolo (I'm neutral about it due to the aforementioned Falco/Gabi opinion above), but definitely quite a bit of hate for Mikasa and Mr. Blouse, which tbh I feel as well. Mr. Blouse was pathetic so I was pretty disappointed that he's this month's FA, and Mikasa....well, I don't like her anymore, lost a LOT of respect for her. I get the whole 'forgiveness' thing Isayama is going for, but honestly I don't care, what Mikasa did left a very sour taste in my mouth.

      I already gave my overall ranking of this chapter so I'm not gonna keep repeating it.

      I really don't pay attention to Tumblr.

      I never said it was the best thing since sliced bread, but I don't understand the hate levied against it. I can see why some people might not like arcs like this one and Uprising as much because they don't have a lot to do with the Titans, but they are fabulous world/character building arcs and I personally love them the most for it.

      See, it's so hard for me to demonize anyone in this series because they *all* have complex motivations and there's no real black and white (unlike what Gabi was brainwashed to think). So even after Gabi killed my waifu Sasha, I couldn't bring myself to hate her because I understand that Gabi grew up being brainwashed by Marley to hate the Paradisian "devils", and she also saw people she cared about killed right in front of her.

      Why hate for Mikasa? Because she stayed Kaya's hand? Mr. Blouse had just given an (IMO) epic speech about why the cycle of hatred needs to end, and that the adults should not pass it down to their children (this reminded me so much of the Fishman Island arc in One Piece, because it dealt with very similar themes), but Kaya had a knee-jerk reaction (just like Gabi had on the airship) and tried to take vengeance for Sasha. The adults in the room (minus Nikolo) understood that the cycle of violence needs to end. It's been going on and on for centuries. They truly want the hostilities to cease with the next generation.

      Why do you think Mr. Blouse was pathetic? I'm honestly very curious. I think he was quite the opposite. It takes a lot of courage and fortitude to look your daughter's killer in the eye and not seek vengeance or retribution. He understands that the world is not black and white and his child was caught up in the "forest" of the world. While he may not truly forgive Gabi, he has no desire to harm her, because in the end, what would it accomplish? If he had killed her, would it bring Sasha back? Would it take away the pain of her death? No, and he knows that.

      I'd also like to know why you lost respect for Mikasa. If she had let Kaya kill Gabi, what kind of example would she be setting? Enough blood has been spilled already, and she knows this. Again, taking a life as retribution for another life taken is not the answer.

      You seem to want some kind of revenge series, which is not what Isayama is going for. His story and his characters' motivations are *much* more complex than that. And for that, I am glad.

      I think the hate for this chapter, at least for me, is that it still continues the Marley arc, which I've made no secret of my utter disdain for it. I still regard it as the worst written arc in any manga series I have ever read. Then again, I've also discussed my disdain for the big basement reveal that introduced the concept of Marley and a great big outside world with Nazi parallels, which to me was the most disappointing and uninteresting plot twist ever. I still enjoyed the Uprising arc because it at least had something to do with Titans, specifically the true Royal family's connection to the Founding Titan. Everything about the Marley arc, about the pointlessness of revenge and war, is just such a letdown for me.

      And yes, my loss of respect for Mikasa is because she stayed Kaya's hand. Not because she protected Kaya's innocence, but because she turned her back on her late friend Sasha, a girl she thought of as a sister, and instead protects her loathsome and despicable murderer (no redemption arc is going to make me unhate Gabi). And since protecting Gabi likely means Mikasa will oppose Eren and side with Hange's "let's just make peace with Marley" BS, I have lost all respect for her and no longer care about her character arc.

      Same goes for Sasha's dad. Someone else was mentioning in the poll discussions that real-life parents who have had their children murdered sometimes forgive their killer, or at the very least not endorse any kind of death penalty. I always have, and always will, consider those kinds of parents to be weak and pathetic cowards just like Mr. Blouse. No father would just let his daughter's killer off the hook, his forgiveness speech was not only unrealistic but also inexcusable. Maybe killing Gabi won't bring Sasha back, but it should certainly bring peace of mind to to her loved ones knowing she was at least avenged. For Mr. Blouse to just betray his own daughter like that...hell, Kaya, who wasn't even related by blood, had a more realistic reaction than Mr. Blouse, so I'm not exactly gonna be nominating Mr. Blouse for Dad of the Year, because the whole "forgive and forget" thing is nothing more than shameful cowardice.

      I'm not actively trying to be negative there, I've just been very disappointed with the direction this series has been going in, as well as some of the decisions the author has made with his characters.

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    • Gabi is a character that I think is made with a great idea in mind which is to be someone who inverts Eren/Reiner as individuals who can't escape the cycles of violence that they are stuck in and only serve to perpetuate those same cycles. The problem I have with Gabi is that while the intent of the character is admirable the execution is shoddy due to the overuse of narrative shortcuts that abandon basic logic in favour of what makes Gabi self flagellate the most (Ex. Did the family need to be the Braus family? I think a family Gabi had no connection with would serve the themes better as it would feel more natural rather than this ludicrous scenario) and a story that follows the most basic structure possible with no deviation or twists which makes it feel like Isayama is cribbing all his material from failed Oscar bait movies (ones that deal with racism specifically) of yesteryear with nothing else to add to the conversation in terms of thematic material that hasn't already been covered better in dozens of other movies or in this very same manga. Also honestly not a single person in this thread has convinced me that the Kaya scene or Mr. Braus speech were any good as the Kaya scene is still let down by a total lack of realism as every scene shared between her and Gabi is marked by extreme hostility with Gabi spewing out words that in our world would be the equivalent to anti-semitism or the N word and threatening to kill Kaya twice (Falco saved her ass the first time by knocking away the rock but she threatened to spear Kaya in broad daylight with a pitchfork) but I am supposed to believe that they are best friends like did I miss something (the timeline of events in this arc is seriously messed up right now as it felt like weeks could have passed between 109 and 111). Mr. Braus' speech is less egregious of a moment than Kaya's meltdown (just to clarify I didn't want to see Gabi get shanked as she is a child) but I still wanted to see Braus show emotion as the dialogue for me read as being stoic and emotionless as he pivoted immediately to a thematic speech rather than reacting like his child had just died and unfortunately in the end it felt like an inferior version of a similar scene in Spielberg's masterpiece Saving Private Ryan as that scene suceeded where this scene failed due to the complexity and raw emotion on display while this one forgot the emotion and went straight to Mr. Braus being a spokeperson for Isayama rather than a real character faced with a harsh choice. The thing is that themes like forgiveness and breaking cycles of hate are good themes to preach but they need to be handled better than this arc has handled them and hopefully Isayama tightens it up as this is basically the climax of the story and all the good intentions in the world can not overcome poor execution.

        Loading editor
    • I agree with a lot of people in regards that everyone (Paradise) wants the hatred to end. But, Paradise got to remember that it only takes one mistake after another that got everyone into this mess in the first place.

      Their first mistake was trusting the outsiders (Marley Volunteers, Zeke Yeager & Kiyomi from Hizuru), who are only want something they desire. That could potentially lead towards the downfall of Paradise altogether.

      Second big mistake, giving into their worse fears on being annihilated, and accepting the 50 years plan. While they (Survey Corp) are trying to look for another way, especially Eren Yeager who doesn't want Historia being sacrificed. The Paradise Government are still going ahead with that plan, despite objections from Eren Yeager himself and perhaps others. After all I do believe that the 50 years plan is a farce/lies/fake to get Zeke on Paradise Island by combine efforts of Kiyomi, Marley volunteers, and Beast Titan himself. Eren Yeager is probably aware that something bad is coming and he's trying to deal with it by becoming a anti-hero.

      The way I studied about this 50 years plan that it has a potential on bringing down Paradise Island, and them becoming villains.

      First stage acquires two titans, one of Royal Blood and the other who inherits the Founding titan. That is both Eren and Zeke or Yeager brothers. They were to be used on unleashing a small amount of rumbling upon the world to scare every nation into submission. It won't work because I think that if the rumbling, even a little one would potentially piss every nation off, making them go into war.

      Second stage about modernising Paradise military is Okay. Plus, it will also increase the Islands economy as well. But we all now aware that Hizuru isn't going to share Paradise Islands' resource with the entire world. No, Kiyomi and probably Hizuru itself is keeping that to themselves.

      Third and final stage. Now that one I don't like myself. It involves on getting another Royal Blood to inherit the Beast Titan, and produce many heirs during their 13 years life expectancy. That one truly gives me the creeps, and it felt like they are treating Historia as livestock, which is what Eren Yeager hates. Worse of all, something is nagging me that it is going to be like Karl Fritz who turned the Founding Titan into a passivists, but way wwwaaaaaaaaaay worse. Knowing Zeke, he has got something cooking up that involves another royal blood to inherit his titan powers. That could lead the downfall of Paradise altogether.


      What do you guys think?

        Loading editor
    • MangoSnake
      MangoSnake removed this reply because:
      22:45, November 13, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • MangoSnake wrote:
      I really didn't like Gabi, or the fact that she escapes prison to live, unknowingly, with the family of the girl she murdered.

      It's called plot armor. And a little thing called Mary Sue. And convenient plot points just to try and force unearned empathy towards her.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      MangoSnake wrote:
      I really didn't like Gabi, or the fact that she escapes prison to live, unknowingly, with the family of the girl she murdered.
      It's called plot armor. And a little thing called Mary Sue. And convenient plot points just to try and force unearned empathy towards her.


      ok

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    • Warrior655 wrote:
      I agree with a lot of people in regards that everyone (Paradise) wants the hatred to end. But, Paradise got to remember that it only takes one mistake after another that got everyone into this mess in the first place.

      I'm actually not seeing them wanting it to end. It wasn't even one or two chapters ago where the people of Paradis were cheering when that bomb went off killing Zackly, hailing Eren Yeager as the leader they need. We both know Eren isn't going to just end the cycle of revenge with himself, he's going to once again take the fight to the enemy. And judging by the same crowds singing Eren's praises, I doubt they're going to stand for Hange's brand of "let's just talk to our enemies and we can end war and live in peace". 

      Like I told some people on YT, Eren's faction is the one taking direct action to keep Paradis safe, hence why the common people are more supportive of the Yeagerists than they are of their own military. Whether that aligns with Zeke's plans or not, we don't know, but in the bigger picture, Eren and Zeke's plan to use the rumbing is really the only way to end the war. And again, since the people are siding with Eren, that's likely how it will go down, at least if the current official leaders want to stay in power once it's all over.

        Loading editor
    • The thing is, Eren is not being portrayed as a hero anymore. The military is upset that he's taken matters into his own hands and they're trying to salvage the mess before it gets even worse. The sympathetic characters are the people who don't like the direction Eren is taking. He left Armin and Mikasa behind, and that's probably he knows that what he's going to do is something they would never support.

      Narratively, if Eren was considered in the right, his friends would be beside him, but they're not, which shows which direction the story is going.

      They came and helped him during his unsanctioned attack on Liberio, so if he's refusing to count on them now, what he has planned is likely to be so unpleasant that he's not even bothering to ask them for help.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Warrior655 wrote:
      I agree with a lot of people in regards that everyone (Paradise) wants the hatred to end. But, Paradise got to remember that it only takes one mistake after another that got everyone into this mess in the first place.
      I'm actually not seeing them wanting it to end. It wasn't even one or two chapters ago where the people of Paradis were cheering when that bomb went off killing Zackly, hailing Eren Yeager as the leader they need. We both know Eren isn't going to just end the cycle of revenge with himself, he's going to once again take the fight to the enemy. And judging by the same crowds singing Eren's praises, I doubt they're going to stand for Hange's brand of "let's just talk to our enemies and we can end war and live in peace". 

      Like I told some people on YT, Eren's faction is the one taking direct action to keep Paradis safe, hence why the common people are more supportive of the Yeagerists than they are of their own military. Whether that aligns with Zeke's plans or not, we don't know, but in the bigger picture, Eren and Zeke's plan to use the rumbing is really the only way to end the war. And again, since the people are siding with Eren, that's likely how it will go down, at least if the current official leaders want to stay in power once it's all over.

      Yeah, one way or another it's going to end very bloody. 

      P.s. you go on YouTube?

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    • MangoSnake wrote:
      I really didn't like Gabi, or the fact that she escapes prison to live, unknowingly, with the family of the girl she murdered.

      A bit forced

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    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Gabi is a character that I think is made with a great idea in mind which is to be someone who inverts Eren/Reiner as individuals who can't escape the cycles of violence that they are stuck in and only serve to perpetuate those same cycles. The problem I have with Gabi is that while the intent of the character is admirable the execution is shoddy due to the overuse of narrative shortcuts that abandon basic logic in favour of what makes Gabi self flagellate the most (Ex. Did the family need to be the Braus family? I think a family Gabi had no connection with would serve the themes better as it would feel more natural rather than this ludicrous scenario) and a story that follows the most basic structure possible with no deviation or twists which makes it feel like Isayama is cribbing all his material from failed Oscar bait movies (ones that deal with rascism specifically) of yesteryear with nothing else to add to the conversation in terms of thematic material that hasn't already been covered better in dozens of other movies or in this very same manga. Also honestly not a single person in this thread has convinced me that the Kaya scene or Mr. Braus speech were any good as the Kaya scene is still let down by a total lack of realism as every scene shared between her and Gabi is marked by extreme hostility with Gabi spewing out words that in our world would be the equivalent to anti-semitism or the N word and threatening to kill Kaya twice (Falco saved her ass the first time by knocking away the rock but she threatned to spear Kaya in broad daylight with a pitchfork) but I am supposed to believe that they are best friends like did I miss something (the timeline of events in this arc is seriously messed up right now as it felt like weeks could have passed between 109 and 111). Mr. Braus' speech is less egregious of a moment than Kaya's meltdown (just to clarify I didn't want to see Gabi get shanked as she is a child) but I still wanted to see Braus show emotion as the dialogue for me read as being stoic and emotionless as he pivoted immediately to a thematic speech rather than reacting like his child had just died and unfortunately in the end it felt like an inferior version of a similar scene in Spielberg's masterpiece Saving Private Ryan as that scene suceeded where this scene failed due to the complexity and raw emotion on display while this one forgot the emotion and went straight to Mr. Braus being a spokeperson for Isayama rather than a real character faced with a harsh choice. The thing is that themes like forgiveness and breaking cycles of hate are good themes to preach but they need to be handled better than this arc has handled them and hopefully Isayama tightens it up as this is basically the climax of the story and all the good intentions in the world can not overcome poor execution.

      Okay this I agree A bit, it's true that having good themes and concepts are fine, but the execution that matters.

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    • Warrior655 wrote:
      I agree with a lot of people in regards that everyone (Paradise) wants the hatred to end. But, Paradise got to remember that it only takes one mistake after another that got everyone into this mess in the first place.

      Their first mistake was trusting the outsiders (Marley Volunteers, Zeke Yeager & Kiyomi from Hizuru), who are only want something they desire. That could potentially lead towards the downfall of Paradise altogether.

      Second big mistake, giving into their worse fears on being annihilated, and accepting the 50 years plan. While they (Survey Corp) are trying to look for another way, especially Eren Yeager who doesn't want Historia being sacrificed. The Paradise Government are still going ahead with that plan, despite objections from Eren Yeager himself and perhaps others. After all I do believe that the 50 years plan is a farce/lies/fake to get Zeke on Paradise Island by combine efforts of Kiyomi, Marley volunteers, and Beast Titan himself. Eren Yeager is probably aware that something bad is coming and he's trying to deal with it by becoming a anti-hero.

      The way I studied about this 50 years plan that it has a potential on bringing down Paradise Island, and them becoming villains.

      First stage acquires two titans, one of Royal Blood and the other who inherits the Founding titan. That is both Eren and Zeke or Yeager brothers. They were to be used on unleashing a small amount of rumbling upon the world to scare every nation into submission. It won't work because I think that if the rumbling, even a little one would potentially piss every nation off, making them go into war.

      Second stage about modernising Paradise military is Okay. Plus, it will also increase the Islands economy as well. But we all now aware that Hizuru isn't going to share Paradise Islands' resource with the entire world. No, Kiyomi and probably Hizuru itself is keeping that to themselves.

      Third and final stage. Now that one I don't like myself. It involves on getting another Royal Blood to inherit the Beast Titan, and produce many heirs during their 13 years life expectancy. That one truly gives me the creeps, and it felt like they are treating Historia as livestock, which is what Eren Yeager hates. Worse of all, something is nagging me that it is going to be like Karl Fritz who turned the Founding Titan into a passivists, but way wwwaaaaaaaaaay worse. Knowing Zeke, he has got something cooking up that involves another royal blood to inherit his titan powers. That could lead the downfall of Paradise altogether.


      What do you guys think?

      Well that is a crazy & scary thought. However how worse are we talking about? Like The people of Paradise are trapped in a dome like structure and they stay there till the day they die?

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    • RuneLai wrote:
      The thing is, Eren is not being portrayed as a hero anymore. The military is upset that he's taken matters into his own hands and they're trying to salvage the mess before it gets even worse. The sympathetic characters are the people who don't like the direction Eren is taking. He left Armin and Mikasa behind, and that's probably he knows that what he's going to do is something they would never support.

      Narratively, if Eren was considered in the right, his friends would be beside him, but they're not, which shows which direction the story is going.

      They came and helped him during his unsanctioned attack on Liberio, so if he's refusing to count on them now, what he has planned is likely to be so unpleasant that he's not even bothering to ask them for help.

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Warrior655 wrote:
      I agree with a lot of people in regards that everyone (Paradise) wants the hatred to end. But, Paradise got to remember that it only takes one mistake after another that got everyone into this mess in the first place.
      I'm actually not seeing them wanting it to end. It wasn't even one or two chapters ago where the people of Paradis were cheering when that bomb went off killing Zackly, hailing Eren Yeager as the leader they need. We both know Eren isn't going to just end the cycle of revenge with himself, he's going to once again take the fight to the enemy. And judging by the same crowds singing Eren's praises, I doubt they're going to stand for Hange's brand of "let's just talk to our enemies and we can end war and live in peace". 

      Like I told some people on YT, Eren's faction is the one taking direct action to keep Paradis safe, hence why the common people are more supportive of the Yeagerists than they are of their own military. Whether that aligns with Zeke's plans or not, we don't know, but in the bigger picture, Eren and Zeke's plan to use the rumbing is really the only way to end the war. And again, since the people are siding with Eren, that's likely how it will go down, at least if the current official leaders want to stay in power once it's all over.

      Yeah, one way or another it's going to end very bloody. 

      P.s. you go on YouTube?

      Yeah, and let me tell you, if you thought the AoT wiki had negativity towards the series, YouTube is a cesspool of it. Most of the comments focus less on story events and more on character hate. 

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

      No, it doesn't. But protagonists are rarely unsympathetic. You get exceptions, for instance: Light Yamagi in Death Note. But if a protagonist loses the audience's sympathy, and their actions are being portrayed in a negative light, you can tell that there is going to be a reckoning.

      I don't think Eren is sympathetic right now. He's in a position where the other characters are trying to stop him. I think whatever he's doing, he's either going to fail or pay a huge price for it by the end of the story.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:
      I agree with a lot of people in regards that everyone (Paradise) wants the hatred to end. But, Paradise got to remember that it only takes one mistake after another that got everyone into this mess in the first place.

      I'm actually not seeing them wanting it to end. It wasn't even one or two chapters ago where the people of Paradis were cheering when that bomb went off killing Zackly, hailing Eren Yeager as the leader they need. We both know Eren isn't going to just end the cycle of revenge with himself, he's going to once again take the fight to the enemy. And judging by the same crowds singing Eren's praises, I doubt they're going to stand for Hange's brand of "let's just talk to our enemies and we can end war and live in peace". 

      Like I told some people on YT, Eren's faction is the one taking direct action to keep Paradis safe, hence why the common people are more supportive of the Yeagerists than they are of their own military. Whether that aligns with Zeke's plans or not, we don't know, but in the bigger picture, Eren and Zeke's plan to use the rumbing is really the only way to end the war. And again, since the people are siding with Eren, that's likely how it will go down, at least if the current official leaders want to stay in power once it's all over.

      Yeah the people on Paradise are no longer supporting their military and government anymore.

        Loading editor
    • RuneLai wrote: The thing is, Eren is not being portrayed as a hero anymore. The military is upset that he's taken matters into his own hands and they're trying to salvage the mess before it gets even worse. The sympathetic characters are the people who don't like the direction Eren is taking. He left Armin and Mikasa behind, and that's probably he knows that what he's going to do is something they would never support.

      Narratively, if Eren was considered in the right, his friends would be beside him, but they're not, which shows which direction the story is going.

      They came and helped him during his unsanctioned attack on Liberio, so if he's refusing to count on them now, what he has planned is likely to be so unpleasant that he's not even bothering to ask them for help.

      There are reasons for Eren to behave like this. Eren could have been threatened by parties like Kiyomi, Yelena, perhaps even Zeke.

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:
      I agree with a lot of people in regards that everyone (Paradise) wants the hatred to end. But, Paradise got to remember that it only takes one mistake after another that got everyone into this mess in the first place.

      Their first mistake was trusting the outsiders (Marley Volunteers, Zeke Yeager & Kiyomi from Hizuru), who are only want something they desire. That could potentially lead towards the downfall of Paradise altogether.

      Second big mistake, giving into their worse fears on being annihilated, and accepting the 50 years plan. While they (Survey Corp) are trying to look for another way, especially Eren Yeager who doesn't want Historia being sacrificed. The Paradise Government are still going ahead with that plan, despite objections from Eren Yeager himself and perhaps others. After all I do believe that the 50 years plan is a farce/lies/fake to get Zeke on Paradise Island by combine efforts of Kiyomi, Marley volunteers, and Beast Titan himself. Eren Yeager is probably aware that something bad is coming and he's trying to deal with it by becoming a anti-hero.

      The way I studied about this 50 years plan that it has a potential on bringing down Paradise Island, and them becoming villains.

      First stage acquires two titans, one of Royal Blood and the other who inherits the Founding titan. That is both Eren and Zeke or Yeager brothers. They were to be used on unleashing a small amount of rumbling upon the world to scare every nation into submission. It won't work because I think that if the rumbling, even a little one would potentially piss every nation off, making them go into war.

      Second stage about modernising Paradise military is Okay. Plus, it will also increase the Islands economy as well. But we all now aware that Hizuru isn't going to share Paradise Islands' resource with the entire world. No, Kiyomi and probably Hizuru itself is keeping that to themselves.

      Third and final stage. Now that one I don't like myself. It involves on getting another Royal Blood to inherit the Beast Titan, and produce many heirs during their 13 years life expectancy. That one truly gives me the creeps, and it felt like they are treating Historia as livestock, which is what Eren Yeager hates. Worse of all, something is nagging me that it is going to be like Karl Fritz who turned the Founding Titan into a passivists, but way wwwaaaaaaaaaay worse. Knowing Zeke, he has got something cooking up that involves another royal blood to inherit his titan powers. That could lead the downfall of Paradise altogether.


      What do you guys think?

      Well that is a crazy & scary thought. However how worse are we talking about? Like The people of Paradise are trapped in a dome like structure and they stay there till the day they die?

      Like I said 'way worse'. You got to remember that their allies want something. Either resources that they process or the rumbling to happen. They probably don't care about Paradise inhabitants or any damages in the near future. As long that they get something and avoid getting into trouble from it. Hell, if anything goes down south, they could use the scapegoat tactic; placing any blame onto Paradise.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      RuneLai wrote:
      The thing is, Eren is not being portrayed as a hero anymore. The military is upset that he's taken matters into his own hands and they're trying to salvage the mess before it gets even worse. The sympathetic characters are the people who don't like the direction Eren is taking. He left Armin and Mikasa behind, and that's probably he knows that what he's going to do is something they would never support.

      Narratively, if Eren was considered in the right, his friends would be beside him, but they're not, which shows which direction the story is going.

      They came and helped him during his unsanctioned attack on Liberio, so if he's refusing to count on them now, what he has planned is likely to be so unpleasant that he's not even bothering to ask them for help.

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

      Yes so true, unless Zeke has dangerous agenda that can harm Paradise. Eren will most likely Attack his older Half-brother. After all, we saw how he reacted on protecting Historia. It's possible that is what Eren truly doing....Protecting his queen, including fellow countrymen.

        Loading editor
    • RuneLai wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

      No, it doesn't. But protagonists are rarely unsympathetic. You get exceptions, for instance: Light Yamagi in Death Note. But if a protagonist loses the audience's sympathy, and their actions are being portrayed in a negative light, you can tell that there is going to be a reckoning.

      I don't think Eren is sympathetic right now. He's in a position where the other characters are trying to stop him. I think whatever he's doing, he's either going to fail or pay a huge price for it by the end of the story.

      Or, it might turn out that Eren is protecting those he cares because somebody may have threaten them. Perhaps Eren knows something dangerous is occurring within Paradise Island that others don't know as well. After all, we discovered that the wine is officially contaminated by Zeke's Spinal fluids. Eren may know that people are drinking it and doesn't trust anyone who could be under its' influence.

        Loading editor
    • RuneLai wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

      No, it doesn't. But protagonists are rarely unsympathetic. You get exceptions, for instance: Light Yamagi in Death Note. But if a protagonist loses the audience's sympathy, and their actions are being portrayed in a negative light, you can tell that there is going to be a reckoning.

      I don't think Eren is sympathetic right now. He's in a position where the other characters are trying to stop him. I think whatever he's doing, he's either going to fail or pay a huge price for it by the end of the story.

      I still find Eren to be a sympathetic character as he is someone driven by the noble goal to save his homeland rather than selfish delusions of grandeur like Light or Walter White and in a harsh situation like this one there are no right answers as Armin's plan could have just wasted time and Eren's plan could doom his soul to eternal damnation while only allowing the current state of violence to continue. Personally though this is why I think this plot is Isayama's ace in the hole as I love characters and situations like this that challenge my own morals and worldviews and I am interested to see how far Eren goes to secure victory. On a side note the potential clash between Eren and Levi is my most anticipated moment right now as it will be an interesting gauge for how far into the moral bog Eren will sink (Will Eren kill Levi or allow him to be killed by Zeke for example).  

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:

      RuneLai wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

      No, it doesn't. But protagonists are rarely unsympathetic. You get exceptions, for instance: Light Yamagi in Death Note. But if a protagonist loses the audience's sympathy, and their actions are being portrayed in a negative light, you can tell that there is going to be a reckoning.

      I don't think Eren is sympathetic right now. He's in a position where the other characters are trying to stop him. I think whatever he's doing, he's either going to fail or pay a huge price for it by the end of the story.

      I still find Eren to be a sympathetic character as he is someone driven by the noble goal to save his homeland rather than selfish delusions of grandeur like Light or Walter White and in a harsh situation like this one there are no right answers as Armin's plan could have just wasted time and Eren's plan could doom his soul to eternal damnation while only allowing the current state of violence to continue. Personally though this is why I think this plot is Isayama's ace in the hole as I love characters and situations like this that challenge my own morals and worldviews and I am interested to see how far Eren goes to secure victory. On a side note the potential clash between Eren and Levi is my most anticipated moment right now as it will be an interesting gauge for how far into the moral bog Eren will sink (Will Eren kill Levi or allow him to be killed by Zeke for example).  

      Yes, while Armin does seek a peaceful solution. However, it doesn't prevent the whole world from wanting to attack Paradise Island, even if Eren did attack Liberio or not. After all, the Tyburs were planning to have every nation unite against Paradise Islanders.

      So while Armin version has morale standards, but it wouldn't have work within their world. Plus, there is a possible chance that their allies (Marley Volunteers, Kiyomi etc) are planning something sinister as well.

      I may not have watched a lot of Games Of Thrones, and learned that Isayama is basing this Arc on it. But what I have gathered so far that the series involves groups of people. They fight each other in order to claim the throne and kingdom.

      Perhaps this is what happening in Attack on Titan. Eren is trying to follow on what Eren Kruger had set out from the beginning. He is trying to free Eldians while protecting his friends and Paradise Island.

      Zeke Yeager could have his own version on creating Eldia. A twisted version that involves oppression and manipulation. After all, I think that Zeke is somehow got twisted throughout the years. From his Father & Mother grooming him to become the next leader towards Marley propaganda as a boy. I believe that Zekes' mind has become warped through the ages and has conjured up his version of Eldia.

      What do you guys think?

        Loading editor
    • Warrior655 wrote:

      Freeman1378 wrote:

      RuneLai wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

      No, it doesn't. But protagonists are rarely unsympathetic. You get exceptions, for instance: Light Yamagi in Death Note. But if a protagonist loses the audience's sympathy, and their actions are being portrayed in a negative light, you can tell that there is going to be a reckoning.

      I don't think Eren is sympathetic right now. He's in a position where the other characters are trying to stop him. I think whatever he's doing, he's either going to fail or pay a huge price for it by the end of the story.

      I still find Eren to be a sympathetic character as he is someone driven by the noble goal to save his homeland rather than selfish delusions of grandeur like Light or Walter White and in a harsh situation like this one there are no right answers as Armin's plan could have just wasted time and Eren's plan could doom his soul to eternal damnation while only allowing the current state of violence to continue. Personally though this is why I think this plot is Isayama's ace in the hole as I love characters and situations like this that challenge my own morals and worldviews and I am interested to see how far Eren goes to secure victory. On a side note the potential clash between Eren and Levi is my most anticipated moment right now as it will be an interesting gauge for how far into the moral bog Eren will sink (Will Eren kill Levi or allow him to be killed by Zeke for example).  
      Yes, while Armin does seek a peaceful solution. However, it doesn't prevent the whole world from wanting to attack Paradise Island, even if Eren did attack Liberio or not. After all, the Tyburs were planning to have every nation unite against Paradise Islanders.

      So while Armin version has morale standards, but it wouldn't have work within their world. Plus, there is a possible chance that their allies (Marley Volunteers, Kiyomi etc) are planning something sinister as well.

      I may not have watched a lot of Games Of Thrones, and learned that Isayama is basing this Arc on it. But what I have gathered so far that the series involves groups of people. They fight each other in order to claim the throne and kingdom.

      Perhaps this is what happening in Attack on Titan. Eren is trying to follow on what Eren Kruger had set out from the beginning. He is trying to free Eldians while protecting his friends and Paradise Island.

      Zeke Yeager could have his own version on creating Eldia. A twisted version that involves oppression and manipulation. After all, I think that Zeke is somehow got twisted throughout the years. From his Father & Mother grooming him to become the next leader towards Marley propaganda as a boy. I believe that Zekes' mind has become warped through the ages and has conjured up his version of Eldia.

      What do you guys think?

      This theory is very viable as Zeke appears to be arrogant and over confident to the point that he might want to shape the world according to his own ideology and it would explain the intial demands (if they weren't intended to generate chaos and throw Paradis into disarray) as Zeke would need to ensure that like Karl Fritz people follow his ideology and finally Zeke I think is probably the ringleader of this entire scenario so it makes sense that the final scenario is meant to benefit him on some level. Outside of this possibility I believe at this point that Zeke is either playing the long game and is the useable "Post" mentioned by Magath to Willy 15 chapters ago (less likely than the other two but still possible) or Zeke is on no one's side and wants to break the whole system as he does seem to dislike the whole state of the world (Ex. he gets angry when killing the SC and laments the inability of the people of the walls to change) and he seems to hate the propoganda his Dad/Mom spewed out to him. The second theory is the specific subset I'm buying into right now as I don't think Isayama will let Zeke become a true villain as while I think Zeke works better as a heel than the international man of mystery type, Isayama seems hellbent on replicating Watchmen's style of flawed characters and beyond good and evil type scenarios and thus I believe that Zeke like his brother Eren will drift closer to that stories antagonist as this story reaches it's climax. 

      - On a side note: Fun fact the chapter is named after a group of people important to the world of Game Of Thrones. 

        Loading editor
    • Aside from my anticipation of seeing the look on Rogue's face when he realizes he's f^#%ed, I am legitimately curious about how the spinal fluid works. Does your Titan form become more grotesque depending on the amount or how it's injested? So far, we've seen 'regular' Titans form by injecting people with needles or dispersing the fluid via gas. But we've seen Rod Reiss transform into a rather grotesque one by drinking it. And given how Rogue (and possibly several other MP's) consumed so much wine, I imagine it's possible we could see multiple 'Rod-Riess sized' Titans crawling around soon.

        Loading editor
    • RuneLai wrote:
      The thing is, Eren is not being portrayed as a hero anymore. The military is upset that he's taken matters into his own hands and they're trying to salvage the mess before it gets even worse. The sympathetic characters are the people who don't like the direction Eren is taking. He left Armin and Mikasa behind, and that's probably he knows that what he's going to do is something they would never support.

      Narratively, if Eren was considered in the right, his friends would be beside him, but they're not, which shows which direction the story is going.

      They came and helped him during his unsanctioned attack on Liberio, so if he's refusing to count on them now, what he has planned is likely to be so unpleasant that he's not even bothering to ask them for help.

      I think that's the wrong way to look at things. No one is truly being portrayed as a hero in this series. Sure, there are characters with more heroic traits and characters with more villainous ones, but very few, if any, fall into either category. Everybody's pretty much a mixed bag. The Uprising Arc showed an inkling into that setting, and the good vs evil trope has been completely abandoned ever since the Marley Arc.

      I don't think that, narratively, anyone is in the right at the moment. I don't even think Isayama is trying to go for that sentiment in the first place. Besides, the simple fact Eren's friends aren't with him would not be indication enough of him being in the wrong.

      As for the 'unpleasantness' aspect, let's remember one Erwin Smith. Many fans of the manga consider him a hero, but he's the one that made the decision of having Eren fight Annie in the middle of Stohess, using his 'I believe it's in the benefit for humanity' or 'it was necessary' as excuses. He also used the excuse of not knowing who Annie's associates were to justify not informing higher-ups like Darius or Nile of her identity, despite the fact he knew that they infiltrated the Walls five years earlier, so anyone who was in longer was a safe bet. In other words, it was but an excuse to justify the SC's continued existence and hundreds of civilian men, women, and children paid the price for it, and the operation was for the most part a failure. Now, this isn't a bash on Erwin as a character; he is one of my favorites too, but I've never really considered him a hero. That didn't lessen my liking of him.

      In any case, why is Eren's case different? He's going behind his superiors' backs, just like Erwin; his superiors are rather slow and reactionary, just like Erwin's were; he's using the mentality of the ends justify the means, just like Erwin did. 

      In my opinion, Attack on Titan is an exploration of people, how they're affected and shaped by the world around them, and what methods they're willing to use to meet their ends. It doesn't go out of its way to differentiate right and wrong, so much that it states observations on humanity itself through the characters' words and actions.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:

      Freeman1378 wrote:

      RuneLai wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Just because someone is sympathetic doens't mean they're right. Someone MIGHT sympathize with the Warriors, but they're still the villains of the story, regardless of their motives or circumstance. If Eren isn't including Armin and Mikasa on his plan, it's because the latter two have lost sight on how to best protect Paradis. The pacifist approach that Armin takes is clearly not going to save them, and the fact that Mikasa protected a Marleyan killer shows she has no concern for her own people, regardless of what she told Kiyomi several pages earlier. 

      Eren is still the main character. He is still the focus of the series. From the beginning, his purpose has been to wipe out his enemies, both Titans and the ones across the sea. Obviously Zeke has an agenda, but if Eren allying with him involves using the rumbling and wiping out the outside world, so be it. It's the only way Paradis can truly be safe, no matter how idealistic the SC has become.

      No, it doesn't. But protagonists are rarely unsympathetic. You get exceptions, for instance: Light Yamagi in Death Note. But if a protagonist loses the audience's sympathy, and their actions are being portrayed in a negative light, you can tell that there is going to be a reckoning.

      I don't think Eren is sympathetic right now. He's in a position where the other characters are trying to stop him. I think whatever he's doing, he's either going to fail or pay a huge price for it by the end of the story.

      I still find Eren to be a sympathetic character as he is someone driven by the noble goal to save his homeland rather than selfish delusions of grandeur like Light or Walter White and in a harsh situation like this one there are no right answers as Armin's plan could have just wasted time and Eren's plan could doom his soul to eternal damnation while only allowing the current state of violence to continue. Personally though this is why I think this plot is Isayama's ace in the hole as I love characters and situations like this that challenge my own morals and worldviews and I am interested to see how far Eren goes to secure victory. On a side note the potential clash between Eren and Levi is my most anticipated moment right now as it will be an interesting gauge for how far into the moral bog Eren will sink (Will Eren kill Levi or allow him to be killed by Zeke for example).  
      Yes, while Armin does seek a peaceful solution. However, it doesn't prevent the whole world from wanting to attack Paradise Island, even if Eren did attack Liberio or not. After all, the Tyburs were planning to have every nation unite against Paradise Islanders.

      So while Armin version has morale standards, but it wouldn't have work within their world. Plus, there is a possible chance that their allies (Marley Volunteers, Kiyomi etc) are planning something sinister as well.

      I may not have watched a lot of Games Of Thrones, and learned that Isayama is basing this Arc on it. But what I have gathered so far that the series involves groups of people. They fight each other in order to claim the throne and kingdom.

      Perhaps this is what happening in Attack on Titan. Eren is trying to follow on what Eren Kruger had set out from the beginning. He is trying to free Eldians while protecting his friends and Paradise Island.

      Zeke Yeager could have his own version on creating Eldia. A twisted version that involves oppression and manipulation. After all, I think that Zeke is somehow got twisted throughout the years. From his Father & Mother grooming him to become the next leader towards Marley propaganda as a boy. I believe that Zekes' mind has become warped through the ages and has conjured up his version of Eldia.

      What do you guys think?

      This theory is very viable as Zeke appears to be arrogant and over confident to the point that he might want to shape the world according to his own ideology and it would explain the intial demands (if they weren't intended to generate chaos and throw Paradis into disarray) as Zeke would need to ensure that like Karl Fritz people follow his ideology and finally Zeke I think is probably the ringleader of this entire scenario so it makes sense that the final scenario is meant to benefit him on some level. Outside of this possibility I believe at this point that Zeke is either playing the long game and is the useable "Post" mentioned by Magath to Willy 15 chapters ago (less likely than the other two but still possible) or Zeke is on no one's side and wants to break the whole system as he does seem to dislike the whole state of the world (Ex. he gets angry when killing the SC and laments the inability of the people of the walls to change) and he seems to hate the propoganda his Dad/Mom spewed out to him. The second theory is the specific subset I'm buying into right now as I don't think Isayama will let Zeke become a true villain as while I think Zeke works better as a heel than the international man of mystery type, Isayama seems hellbent on replicating Watchmen's style of flawed characters and beyond good and evil type scenarios and thus I believe that Zeke like his brother Eren will drift closer to that stories antagonist as this story reaches it's climax. 

      - On a side note: Fun fact the chapter is named after a group of people important to the world of Game Of Thrones. 

      Agree.

        Loading editor
    • Winston4278 wrote: Aside from my anticipation of seeing the look on Rogue's face when he realizes he's f^#%ed, I am legitimately curious about how the spinal fluid works. Does your Titan form become more grotesque depending on the amount or how it's injested? So far, we've seen 'regular' Titans form by injecting people with needles or dispersing the fluid via gas. But we've seen Rod Reiss transform into a rather grotesque one by drinking it. And given how Rogue (and possibly several other MP's) consumed so much wine, I imagine it's possible we could see multiple 'Rod-Riess sized' Titans crawling around soon.

      It all depends on the titan serum itself. My theory about the titan serum is that it triggers something within Eldian's blood, turning them into titans. However, my reason for titans' abnormalities such as enlarged heads and limbs is probably due to the serum messing with Eldians blood. We all know that Eldians are the only ones that can turn into titans, and it has something to do with their blood. Perhaps that the reason about titan serum, to me at least.

      As about Rod Reiss turning into that gargantuan titan. Well it is matter on how it enters a Eldian body I believe. Needles can be used to control the size of a titan when a Eldian gets turn into one. Gas, I think that it is by the amount Eldian inhales. Rod Reiss simply ingest the serum, causing a uncontrollable transformation in size.

      Any response to this theory?

        Loading editor
    • Marco1995mega wrote:

      RuneLai wrote:
      The thing is, Eren is not being portrayed as a hero anymore. The military is upset that he's taken matters into his own hands and they're trying to salvage the mess before it gets even worse. The sympathetic characters are the people who don't like the direction Eren is taking. He left Armin and Mikasa behind, and that's probably he knows that what he's going to do is something they would never support.

      Narratively, if Eren was considered in the right, his friends would be beside him, but they're not, which shows which direction the story is going.

      They came and helped him during his unsanctioned attack on Liberio, so if he's refusing to count on them now, what he has planned is likely to be so unpleasant that he's not even bothering to ask them for help.

      I think that's the wrong way to look at things. No one is truly being portrayed as a hero in this series. Sure, there are characters with more heroic traits and characters with more villainous ones, but very few, if any, fall into either category. Everybody's pretty much a mixed bag. The Uprising Arc showed an inkling into that setting, and the good vs evil trope has been completely abandoned ever since the Marley Arc.

      I don't think that, narratively, anyone is in the right at the moment. I don't even think Isayama is trying to go for that sentiment in the first place. Besides, the simple fact Eren's friends aren't with him would not be indication enough of him being in the wrong.

      As for the 'unpleasantness' aspect, let's remember one Erwin Smith. Many fans of the manga consider him a hero, but he's the one that made the decision of having Eren fight Annie in the middle of Stohess, using his 'I believe it's in the benefit for humanity' or 'it was necessary' as excuses. He also used the excuse of not knowing who Annie's associates were to justify not informing higher-ups like Darius or Nile of her identity, despite the fact he knew that they infiltrated the Walls five years earlier, so anyone who was in longer was a safe bet. In other words, it was but an excuse to justify the SC's continued existence and hundreds of civilian men, women, and children paid the price for it, and the operation was for the most part a failure. Now, this isn't a bash on Erwin as a character; he is one of my favorites too, but I've never really considered him a hero. That didn't lessen my liking of him.

      In any case, why is Eren's case different? He's going behind his superiors' backs, just like Erwin; his superiors are rather slow and reactionary, just like Erwin's were; he's using the mentality of the ends justify the means, just like Erwin did. 

      In my opinion, Attack on Titan is an exploration of people, how they're affected and shaped by the world around them, and what methods they're willing to use to meet their ends. It doesn't go out of its way to differentiate right and wrong, so much that it states observations on humanity itself through the characters' words and actions.

      It is true that are no good and bad guys because Isayama isn't making a good versus bad type of Manga. It is mostly about belief clashing with other peoples' belief, whether they are true or not. Plus, action and reaction is also a part of it.

      Former Commander Erwin Smith believe that in order for humanity to move forward, there will have to be sacrifices. Armin said to Eren 'in order on defeating Annie, one must become a monster', and I thinking that it will be something he'll regret later on saying.

      Eren is no doubt using everything he has learn from his friends and former commander to find a solution. That is probably why he's behaving like this. I don't think Eren is a villain, more likely a anti hero. Heroes obey the rules, adding restriction and making hard for them to accomplish something such as protecting friends & kingdom. Anti heroes accomplish everything by bending and breaking a few rules.

        Loading editor
    • Warrior655 wrote:

      Winston4278 wrote: Aside from my anticipation of seeing the look on Rogue's face when he realizes he's f^#%ed, I am legitimately curious about how the spinal fluid works. Does your Titan form become more grotesque depending on the amount or how it's injested? So far, we've seen 'regular' Titans form by injecting people with needles or dispersing the fluid via gas. But we've seen Rod Reiss transform into a rather grotesque one by drinking it. And given how Rogue (and possibly several other MP's) consumed so much wine, I imagine it's possible we could see multiple 'Rod-Riess sized' Titans crawling around soon.

      It all depends on the titan serum itself. My theory about the titan serum is that it triggers something within Eldian's blood, turning them into titans. However, my reason for titans' abnormalities such as enlarged heads and limbs is probably due to the serum messing with Eldians blood. We all know that Eldians are the only ones that can turn into titans, and it has something to do with their blood. Perhaps that the reason about titan serum, to me at least.

      As about Rod Reiss turning into that gargantuan titan. Well it is matter on how it enters a Eldian body I believe. Needles can be used to control the size of a titan when a Eldian gets turn into one. Gas, I think that it is by the amount Eldian inhales. Rod Reiss simply ingest the serum, causing a uncontrollable transformation in size.

      Any response to this theory?

      Interesting theory; however, I think Isayama mentioned that when Rod injested the serum, it was done improperly and that had a part in how his Titan form turned out. It was in a needle which was then exposed to the open air; I will say it's surprising that it didn't evaporate immediately, since I thought that's what happened when they tried . In Rogue's case, it was consumed in a similar way but it (seemed to be) more evenly dispersed.

      I guess we won't know for sure until Zeke decides it's time to have a good scream.

        Loading editor
    • Winston4278 wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:

      Winston4278 wrote: Aside from my anticipation of seeing the look on Rogue's face when he realizes he's f^#%ed, I am legitimately curious about how the spinal fluid works. Does your Titan form become more grotesque depending on the amount or how it's injested? So far, we've seen 'regular' Titans form by injecting people with needles or dispersing the fluid via gas. But we've seen Rod Reiss transform into a rather grotesque one by drinking it. And given how Rogue (and possibly several other MP's) consumed so much wine, I imagine it's possible we could see multiple 'Rod-Riess sized' Titans crawling around soon.

      It all depends on the titan serum itself. My theory about the titan serum is that it triggers something within Eldian's blood, turning them into titans. However, my reason for titans' abnormalities such as enlarged heads and limbs is probably due to the serum messing with Eldians blood. We all know that Eldians are the only ones that can turn into titans, and it has something to do with their blood. Perhaps that the reason about titan serum, to me at least.

      As about Rod Reiss turning into that gargantuan titan. Well it is matter on how it enters a Eldian body I believe. Needles can be used to control the size of a titan when a Eldian gets turn into one. Gas, I think that it is by the amount Eldian inhales. Rod Reiss simply ingest the serum, causing a uncontrollable transformation in size.

      Any response to this theory?

      Interesting theory; however, I think Isayama mentioned that when Rod injested the serum, it was done improperly and that had a part in how his Titan form turned out. It was in a needle which was then exposed to the open air; I will say it's surprising that it didn't evaporate immediately, since I thought that's what happened when they tried . In Rogue's case, it was consumed in a similar way but it (seemed to be) more evenly dispersed.

      I guess we won't know for sure until Zeke decides it's time to have a good scream.

      Expect giant Colossal Titans everywhere.

        Loading editor
    • Winston4278 wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:

      Winston4278 wrote: Aside from my anticipation of seeing the look on Rogue's face when he realizes he's f^#%ed, I am legitimately curious about how the spinal fluid works. Does your Titan form become more grotesque depending on the amount or how it's injested? So far, we've seen 'regular' Titans form by injecting people with needles or dispersing the fluid via gas. But we've seen Rod Reiss transform into a rather grotesque one by drinking it. And given how Rogue (and possibly several other MP's) consumed so much wine, I imagine it's possible we could see multiple 'Rod-Riess sized' Titans crawling around soon.

      It all depends on the titan serum itself. My theory about the titan serum is that it triggers something within Eldian's blood, turning them into titans. However, my reason for titans' abnormalities such as enlarged heads and limbs is probably due to the serum messing with Eldians blood. We all know that Eldians are the only ones that can turn into titans, and it has something to do with their blood. Perhaps that the reason about titan serum, to me at least.

      As about Rod Reiss turning into that gargantuan titan. Well it is matter on how it enters a Eldian body I believe. Needles can be used to control the size of a titan when a Eldian gets turn into one. Gas, I think that it is by the amount Eldian inhales. Rod Reiss simply ingest the serum, causing a uncontrollable transformation in size.

      Any response to this theory?

      Interesting theory; however, I think Isayama mentioned that when Rod injested the serum, it was done improperly and that had a part in how his Titan form turned out. It was in a needle which was then exposed to the open air; I will say it's surprising that it didn't evaporate immediately, since I thought that's what happened when they tried . In Rogue's case, it was consumed in a similar way but it (seemed to be) more evenly dispersed.

      I guess we won't know for sure until Zeke decides it's time to have a good scream.

      Yes, the serum is still a mystery. So we will just have to wait and see when Zeke uses his lovely singing voice.

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Winston4278 wrote:

      Warrior655 wrote:

      Winston4278 wrote: Aside from my anticipation of seeing the look on Rogue's face when he realizes he's f^#%ed, I am legitimately curious about how the spinal fluid works. Does your Titan form become more grotesque depending on the amount or how it's injested? So far, we've seen 'regular' Titans form by injecting people with needles or dispersing the fluid via gas. But we've seen Rod Reiss transform into a rather grotesque one by drinking it. And given how Rogue (and possibly several other MP's) consumed so much wine, I imagine it's possible we could see multiple 'Rod-Riess sized' Titans crawling around soon.

      It all depends on the titan serum itself. My theory about the titan serum is that it triggers something within Eldian's blood, turning them into titans. However, my reason for titans' abnormalities such as enlarged heads and limbs is probably due to the serum messing with Eldians blood. We all know that Eldians are the only ones that can turn into titans, and it has something to do with their blood. Perhaps that the reason about titan serum, to me at least.

      As about Rod Reiss turning into that gargantuan titan. Well it is matter on how it enters a Eldian body I believe. Needles can be used to control the size of a titan when a Eldian gets turn into one. Gas, I think that it is by the amount Eldian inhales. Rod Reiss simply ingest the serum, causing a uncontrollable transformation in size.

      Any response to this theory?

      Interesting theory; however, I think Isayama mentioned that when Rod injested the serum, it was done improperly and that had a part in how his Titan form turned out. It was in a needle which was then exposed to the open air; I will say it's surprising that it didn't evaporate immediately, since I thought that's what happened when they tried . In Rogue's case, it was consumed in a similar way but it (seemed to be) more evenly dispersed.

      I guess we won't know for sure until Zeke decides it's time to have a good scream.

      Expect giant Colossal Titans everywhere.

      Ooh...scary thought.

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