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    • Overall I thought this was a fine chapter as it didn't particularly blow me away in any respect but it also didn't have many terrible aspects.

      Positives:

      - EMA finally interacted and while I doubt Eren really meant anything he said (he's acting like a dick to protect his friends IMO) it atleast showed a clear focus on what matters for the first time since 108. So overall pretty solid conversation and a step in the right direction.

      - The insight into the Ackermann condition was fascinating.

      - The ending was a pretty great visual with the titans raining down on Levi and its a pretty exciting way to close out the chapter with Levi on the razors edge once again.

      Negtives:

      - The events are still convoluted with Eren bursting in right after Nicolo's meltdown and it seemed like another weak attempt to make Gabi learn something by having Eren act like a psychotic (even if it is fake) in front of her as some sort of cautionary tale for what she might become.

      - The chapter was generally predictable and I don't think it was done any favors by the arcs lethargic pacing as I did feel that this chapter would have hit harder if it was 2 chapters ago as these moments and twists were generally okay but it didn't need that level of buildup for things that were a given in 108 (wine poisoning especially).

      - Zeke's character is still frustrating and I just don't buy that he is this intelligent mastermind akin to Moriarty when he's as trustworthy as a hobo on meth and constantly talks in annoying riddles. The omnipotence of the character is also hard to believe even with Eren in his corner as it requires Yelena, Nicolo, Onyankopon, or Eren to be everywhere at once when three of them would have been carefully watched due to their status as potential spies and if the wine did come spiked on the boats why would anyone drink it? 

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    • When Mikasa first protected him he didn't even have Titan powers yet. Eren must be lying to protect his friends for some reason. 

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    • Definite improvement over last chapter, lot more pros than cons this time around.

      Pros:

      -The Yeagerists and SC in one room? That's bound to lead to trouble.

      -FINALLY we have the EMA conversation.

      -Eren is still dedicated to destroying his enemies, and for that, I thank him.

      -After enough of Armin's 'let's talk this out' mentality after the time-skip, it was nice to see someone [Eren] kick the tar out of him. Maybe this will snap him out of this suicidal pacifism that's overtaken him. Interesting that it seems to stem from inheriting the Colossus from Bertolt.

      -For ONCE, Gabi kept her yapper shut, so no annoying "Eldian devil" crap out of her. Still hate her guts, but at least she wasn't front and center of this chapter.

      -Zeke was...oddly comical this chapter. Can't really explain why with words, it's just kind of a visual thing I suppose.

      Cons:

      -Mikasa. Had she not done what she done last chapter (betrayed Sasha's memory by sparing Gabi and refusing to kill an enemy soldier), what little is left of my heart would be broken by how she reacted to Eren's true feelings about her. Now I say she deserves it. She strayed from her Ackerbond for the Scrappy, ergo, she made her bed, now she can lie on it (bye Felicia!) Speaking of Ackerbonds...

      -Learning the nature of Ackerbonds. It wasn't disappointing, per se, but it still leaves more questions than answers to me. Like, at least the whole thing is confirmed, but the only explanation is "titan science". How exactly does that enable them to form an unbreakable bond with a certain person? Maybe in the future that will be elaborated more.

      Neutral:

      -Red flag for Levi, mentally preparing myself for that.

      Overall, 7/10, vast improvement from the mess we got last month.

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    • Aww, I don't get dibs on first message. :^

      This chapter was great; it's really starting to build up the arc for the conflict that will happen later. I think it's been three months since I've personally enjoyed a chapter this much. 10/10.

      Two things that piqued my interest were the entire EMA scene and Levi's inner thoughts at the forest. It seems like former Levi squad still do not know much about Historia, because if they did Levi's thoughts would probably be longer. The EMA scene also can potentially bring in a lot of plot points and could potentially give us clues to their fates in the near future.

      Other:

      • Kudos to this Reddit post by u/rubbie for accurately predicting that "There are a couple of things that make me believe this dude could have a much bigger role in the wine plan than people expect:".
      • Kudos to this thread started by Wambo225 for bringing up a good observation about Mikasa's headaches.
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    • LoverOfTragedy wrote:
      When Mikasa first protected him he didn't even have Titan powers yet. Eren must be lying to protect his friends for some reason. 

      There's the possiblity that Mikasa thought Eren was a good "host" via Grisha or Eren Kruger in paths.

      I want to take a leap here and theorize that Eren Kruger was also an Ackerman "host" (it'll probably explain why he knows of Armin and Mikasa) or a convergence between the Ackermans and Titan power coordinate. It's just a "random idea" for now, but this weekend I'll reread the chapters and perhaps elaborate on the theory.

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    • LoverOfTragedy wrote: When Mikasa first protected him he didn't even have Titan powers yet. Eren must be lying to protect his friends for some reason. 

      I can't help wondering if "host" was really the appropriate translation. It sounds like he's implying someone who has the Founding Titan (and thus is the king), but obviously he didn't have it back when he met Mikasa, and Levi had no opportunity whatsoever to have met a current holder of the Founding Titan when he awakened. There's no evidence he ever met Uri or Frieda.

      It might be that Eren means Mikasa has recognized someone as a potential king (sort of like what TheMagicalWonders is saying) and that was enough, but host implies the person possesses something, and Eren didn't at the time.

      I did like him being a complete ass to Mikasa though, and proving that her actions are not entirely her own. I'm less certain about the Annie/Armin/Bertolt connection, because Armin has been close-ish to Annie on his own. Even if Bertolt hadn't existed, he probably would be doing the same thing anyway.

      Zeke running away while Levi had his back turned was unexpectedly funny (the sound effects helped). I still don't know what Zeke's game is though. It's possible he's not actually controlling Eren, but I think he's certainly influencing him. The things Eren's learned are only because Zeke helped him get access to that information.

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    • RuneLai wrote:

      LoverOfTragedy wrote: When Mikasa first protected him he didn't even have Titan powers yet. Eren must be lying to protect his friends for some reason. 

      I can't help wondering if "host" was really the appropriate translation. It sounds like he's implying someone who has the Founding Titan (and thus is the king), but obviously he didn't have it back when he met Mikasa, and Levi had no opportunity whatsoever to have met a current holder of the Founding Titan when he awakened. There's no evidence he ever met Uri or Frieda.

      It might be that Eren means Mikasa has recognized someone as a potential king (sort of like what TheMagicalWonders is saying) and that was enough, but host implies the person possesses something, and Eren didn't at the time.

      I did like him being a complete ass to Mikasa though, and proving that her actions are not entirely her own. I'm less certain about the Annie/Armin/Bertolt connection, because Armin has been close-ish to Annie on his own. Even if Bertolt hadn't existed, he probably would be doing the same thing anyway.

      Zeke running away while Levi had his back turned was unexpectedly funny (the sound effects helped). I still don't know what Zeke's game is though. It's possible he's not actually controlling Eren, but I think he's certainly influencing him. The things Eren's learned are only because Zeke helped him get access to that information.

      My current interpratation of the Ackermann clan is that they are genetically predisposed towards being loyal to someone (Any Eldian will do because of Levi and Erwin) but they were always raised close to a royal family member so that when their switch flips on they will completely obey and protect the new king/queen or king/queen in waiting.

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    • So, Eren's line about Armin influenced by Bertholdt's memory is either a holy mother of double edged-blades or pure bluffing. Likely, the latter. Armin had a thing for Annie anyway, and it's not hard to know he's visiting. And with Armin suggesting they murder Eren prior goes against 'you're getting soft', which Eren has no way of knowing. Armin, obviously, has no way of checking the fact either.

      Anyway, at that point Eren is supposed to have his own memories, plus the entirety of Grisha's since blood relation, plus some Freida's, plus some WHT's. One can't have THAT many personailities and memories clash in your head and come out perfectly calm and sane.

      Though it does seem he has berzerk button about the 'slave' thing, wonder which one is that. Could it be the Attack Titan actually having a say too, which means Eren IS a slave to his Titan's will?

      PS: Pieck is still around. I'm having a feeling Zeke and his Titans are about to be ganged up on by Reiner, Porco and her.

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    • While I'm not completely discounting the possibility, I really don't think Eren was honest when he said he hated Mikasa. He said he hated those who weren't free. That's wrong; he hates those who take away the freedom of others. In this case, even if it's unintentional, Eren is the one taking away Mikasa's freedom. He was most likely trying to force her to distance herself from him so she'd regain her freedom. Like he mentioned, the headaches occur due to the 'real her' fighting against the Ackerman instincts, which means the 'real' Mikasa is still in her mind. He doesn't want her to be leashed to anyone, let alone someone who is to die in a few years, maybe sooner due to the whole insurgency.

      I do think he was right about Armin's situation, though. It makes sense. While offering a diplomatic option is totally understandable, the fact that not once he considered its possible - and most likely - failure, nor contemplated a militaristic alternative, is certainly telling. His visits to Annie are self-explanatory, even if he had been somewhat friends with her, though definitely not on the same level as Eren, and if he finds his number of visits weird, then...

      It is possible that Eren has gone full-time villain, I ain't gonna lie, but there's a lot of doubt too. He just seemed to be trying WAY too hard to be douchebag. As Freeman1378 said, he might very well be trying to protect them, you know, in his own convoluted manner. 

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    • It was definitely jarring seeing both Levi and Mikasa react like this for the first time in awhile. For so long both have been this stoic force of power and it was getting a little repetitive and boring seeing it over and over again; having them express such fear and sadness respectively made them feel more human and relatable in a way.  Regardless if what Eren said about his feelings for Mikasa and Armin were sincere or not, you can tell it really affected her; seeing Mikasa break down like this for the first time in ages was honestly a bit refreshing to see.



      Even with seeing Zeke's plan put into action, probably the part I was most surprised with was how quickly Floch has reached Yelena's level of fanaticism towards Eren; I would not be surprised if he's more devoted to Eren than Yelena is to Zeke now. Plus, that grin of his was probably the creepiest part of this issue.

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    • While I don't think Eren's putting up an act per se, he's certainly not being himself anymore. His staments to Armin about being influenced are waaaaay to hypocritical considering his own situation, and his sudden insane obsession with freedom and 180° turn about that (he hated those who take away freedom, not those who don't have it)...

      Tl;DR, I think Eren's suffering from a loss of identity because of the 3 powers inside of him. Either he's controlled (which explains his anger at that suggestion), or he's become insane. Really wondering what their endgame is, though.

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    • Maybe Eren's plan is to get hold of all 9 Titan Powers, and then use Annie's power to crystalize himself forever. That way no-one can use the Titan Powers anymore. 

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Definite improvement over last chapter, lot more pros than cons this time around.

      Pros:

      -The Yeagerists and SC in one room? That's bound to lead to trouble.

      -FINALLY we have the EMA conversation.

      -Eren is still dedicated to destroying his enemies, and for that, I thank him.

      -After enough of Armin's 'let's talk this out' mentality after the time-skip, it was nice to see someone [Eren] kick the tar out of him. Maybe this will snap him out of this suicidal pacifism that's overtaken him. Interesting that it seems to stem from inheriting the Colossus from Bertolt.

      -For ONCE, Gabi kept her yapper shut, so no annoying "Eldian devil" crap out of her. Still hate her guts, but at least she wasn't front and center of this chapter.

      -Zeke was...oddly comical this chapter. Can't really explain why with words, it's just kind of a visual thing I suppose.

      Cons:

      -Mikasa. Had she not done what she done last chapter (betrayed Sasha's memory by sparing Gabi and refusing to kill an enemy soldier), what little is left of my heart would be broken by how she reacted to Eren's true feelings about her. Now I say she deserves it. She strayed from her Ackerbond for the Scrappy, ergo, she made her bed, now she can lie on it (bye Felicia!) Speaking of Ackerbonds...

      -Learning the nature of Ackerbonds. It wasn't disappointing, per se, but it still leaves more questions than answers to me. Like, at least the whole thing is confirmed, but the only explanation is "titan science". How exactly does that enable them to form an unbreakable bond with a certain person? Maybe in the future that will be elaborated more.

      Neutral:

      -Red flag for Levi, mentally preparing myself for that.

      Overall, 7/10, vast improvement from the mess we got last month.

      Scratch that, I forgot a pro AND a con to the chapter:

      The pro is Floch. I like that he's becoming to Eren what Yelene is to Zeke, if not even more fanatical. And I like the evil grin he gives when Hange suspects he knew about the wine conspiracy. Funny how people change after four years, going from thinking someone is stubborn and reckless to being the savior Paradis needs. And I guess he's more or less Eren's new cheerleader now that EMA talks went south.

      The con is Nicolo. After what he did last chapter, why the sudden heel-turn? Are we supposed to believe that just a few inspiring words from the SC is enough to make him feel regret? He attacked Gabi and Falco for their role in Sasha's death, someone very close to him. I'm not buying that he suddenly feels remorse. I certainly wouldn't. I'm not convinced by the sudden change of heart that is an unfortunate trope in a lot of manga and anime.

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    • Winston4278 wrote: It was definitely jarring seeing both Levi and Mikasa react like this for the first time in awhile. For so long both have been this stoic force of power and it was getting a little repetitive and boring seeing it over and over again; having them express such fear and sadness respectively made them feel more human and relatable in a way.

      I agree. That was great stuff. Mikasa tends to fade into the background a lot because all she does is fight in whatever cause Eren is caught up in. Her own character development has been zilch since the Battle of Trost. Now she has to question just why she does what she does and it's something she's never had to do before.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote: The con is Nicolo. After what he did last chapter, why the sudden heel-turn? Are we supposed to believe that just a few inspiring words from the SC is enough to make him feel regret? He attacked Gabi and Falco for their role in Sasha's death, someone very close to him. I'm not buying that he suddenly feels remorse. I certainly wouldn't. I'm not convinced by the sudden change of heart that is an unfortunate trope in a lot of manga and anime.

      Maybe that's just you, but I'm going to believe that Nicolo feels remorse. He acted out of blind rage; it's not like he was calculating "I'm going to kill those two brats" since he heard Sasha died. Earlier in this chapter, Nicolo actually wonders "What was wrong with me, I nearly killed a kid" and then breaks down. He's trying to act responsible for his actions.

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    • I'm going to agree with many people I see around the net that Eren doesn't really hate Mikasa, especially not the "I've always hated you" part. That would put many tender moments he had with her into doubt and I find it hard to believe he only pretended to care when he's not that great an actor (at least not back then).

      If anything, I imagine his real anger is at himself, and that he's burning bridges in preparation for the future. Basically, he went full Lelouch in this chapter.

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    • I feel bad for Mikasa and Armin but I just hope that all will be revealed in the end and somehow Eren is doing this all for their sake as well. I can't wait for the next chapter. There will finally be some action involving Levi again. I hope they dont kill him yet!

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    • Sentinel07 wrote: I'm going to agree with many people I see around the net that Eren doesn't really hate Mikasa, especially not the "I've always hated you" part. That would put many tender moments he had with her into doubt and I find it hard to believe he only pretended to care when he's not that great an actor (at least not back then).

      If anything, I imagine his real anger is at himself, and that he's burning bridges in preparation for the future. Basically, he went full Lelouch in this chapter.

      I like how you referenced Lelouch on this one. I need Eren to redeem himself on the next chapters!

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    • This chapter is starting to heat to the upcoming battle.

      The scenes I loved.

      Gabi suddenly being quite when Eren came, like you would guess that a girl of her guts and loud mouth would shout something, but lol she seemed paralyzed by Eren Yeager, the only person she actually had to shout on. This gives Eren a kind of Levi like impression.

      I wonder if Eren was giving a hidden message to Armin. Like he was saying that Armin is being controlled by Bertolt and so is more peaceful and wants to solve things while talking. So, basically could this hint on that Eren is also being controlled by either his father? Eren Krugger? Or.... Frisha? The Royal Frizdt King or Ymir..... I just feel the whole conversation is hiding something.

      Okay, we know that Lies are a thing in this series, especially since Zeke's whole "I didn't know what will happen to the villagers if I spread my spinal fluid into the air" was comfirmed to be a big fat lie just as I predicted. So, most likely Eren is lying to Mikasa since we know that Eren genuinely protected and saved her in various times. The whole 'always' was a hint on that. If Eren said that he hated her now, it would be logical. So, Eren's either giving hints because he knows he is being watched or he can't control himself and is desperately trying to leak on something as well(hinting on how many times he said "control" and hates controlled people and stuff)

      So, I guess we can't believe anything Zeke said so far, even the ones where he explained himself on why he ratted out his parents. Zeke is just a paranoid servant to his army and cause.

      Woah, I liked how Levi wasn't at all interested in the idea of feeding a rebel Eren to a titan. It's cute how he remembers the first time he saved him and how he can't go over the idea of losing him. A sort of brother or uncle nephew relationship or master mentor one.

      And man, the way Zeke only had to shout out in his human form to turn the Eldians into Titans means that if he had even once stepped into a thorn he would have hilariously turned everyone around him into a titan earlier and spoil the plan.

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    • Am I the only one who is noticing a pattern here? Eren shows up unexpectedly. He has a cut on his hand which he makes immediately known. He then proceeds to emotionally cripple his most dangerous opponent. This is Reiner in Marlay all over again. Mikasa may not be a threat to Eren, but she can cause trouble for Zeke and the Yeagarists. Eren may be trying to take her out of commission for a comming batte.

      I get the impression that Eren believes what he is saying, even though it may not be true. I think Zeke really got in his head and I don't think the war hammer is helping much either. 

      One question this chapter has left me with regards Kenny and how he unlocked his Ackerman powers. If you need to feel a need to protect something or someone in order too unlock it, then how did Kenny? Kenny is a psychopath. I have a hard time imagining him caring that much.

      For that matter, who was Levis origional host that he used to unlock his power when he was a kid? Why didn't he follow that person around for the rest of his life like Mikasa and Eren? I doubte he was protecting Kenny because he would know that Kenny wouldn't need his protection. 

      I kind of get the impression that that information Eren gave about the Ackermans isn't entirely true. We already know from the spinal fluid gas story that we can't trust any info coming from Zeke. He is good at strategic miss direction. Zeke would have learned enough from Reiner and Bert to know that Mikasa is in love with Eren. And the head aches could be a side effect of the Ackerman power. Zeke could have cleverly linked them together to fool Eren. On some level, Eren could feel hurt and be lashing out because he feels that his greatest friendship is a lie and every time she gets a head ache, that is her true self hating him. And thinking that any part of the man that killed his mother survives in his other best friend must give conflicting feelings as well.

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    • With all of the crazy elements of this chapter, I have just one question:

      Was Falco left behind in the kitchen sink?

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    • One question this chapter has left me with regards Kenny and how he unlocked his Ackerman powers. If you need to feel a need to protect something or someone in order too unlock it, then how did Kenny? Kenny is a psychopath. I have a hard time imagining him caring that much.

      <...>

      I kind of get the impression that that information Eren gave about the Ackermans isn't entirely true. 

      Maybe the person unlocking it dying is a thing that 'releases' an Ackermann?  I mean, Kenny's personality had to be shaped by something to end up as he was. Maybe he awakened trying to protect his potential host, yet failed to do so, resulting into a mental break - possibly 'a way out' until he finds someone suitable, like Uri, or no one at all (since he hasn't found one till the day he died)? 

      Also, I find it interesting how this kind of info puts Lost Girls 3 into perspective, Mikasa hearing a voice and facing a masked figure. Could it be the representation of herself being locked against an Ackermann inside her own head?

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    • Well, I find it interesting how the Ackerman are said to be controlled slaves, even though they are the only Eldians that can't also be controlled by The Founding Titan. Though words apart, anyone else feel said for Mikasa right now? I'm pretty sure any strong person would be brokeb down if he or she heard that he's just protecting the person or she thinks he loves out of a controlled path.

      Now, Kenny, I think he at some point had a friend he could follow orders from, and that lead to his 'friend' to be killed by let's say a MP? And so Kenny due to the aftershock of losing his commander, lost all senses and started killing MPs? Just like Mikasa went all crazy to kill Titan with just even a sword, and Levi slashing through Titans and Titans to reach to the Titab he wants to kill. Maybe it's all a great lie Zeke came up with. It easily makes Eren more closer to him than his friends. And Zeke as we know it, doesn't want Ackermans around him.

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    • obviously Eren is playing a long con, he knows zeke is trying to control the tide. now i don't think zeke is still working for marley, i think he saw a way to play both sides his intentions are obvious he is going to try to take the founding titan from eren and defeat eldian's enemies and become the new ruler of a new eldian empire.



      at the same time i think that Eren knows this and is conning Zeke.

      my theory is that Eren has tapped into the very fabric of the "Paths" the ackermans gain the experience of every ackerman that came before via these paths so it would be logical that every eldian is connected to these pathways.

      i believe that the yeager clan itself is different i believe that both the yeagers and Eren krugars families are different and that its possible for them to tap into the pathways but for Eren Yeager and Eren Krugar they can tap into the future pathways. both of them can see into the future and plot a cource of action to a limited degree,. he is going to reveal to Zeke that he knew all along and will end up consuming the beast titan.

      i also have a theory that Eren has used these pathways to tap into the very inner most power of the titans he possesses and that he doesn't need Historia's blood and that he has Rewrote the founding titan so it will not only fallow his will

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    • I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

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    • ErenZeke2020 wrote:
      I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

      Eren said that the 'awakening' grants them the combat experience of all the previous Ackermans, but not the combat skill.  There's a difference. Basically, it means they have the honed instincts of a veteran combatant but still need to acquire skills and techniques through training and personal battle experience. That's why Levi's a better Titan killer; he's fought them far more than her and has trained for longer.

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    • TheMagicalWonders wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote: The con is Nicolo. After what he did last chapter, why the sudden heel-turn? Are we supposed to believe that just a few inspiring words from the SC is enough to make him feel regret? He attacked Gabi and Falco for their role in Sasha's death, someone very close to him. I'm not buying that he suddenly feels remorse. I certainly wouldn't. I'm not convinced by the sudden change of heart that is an unfortunate trope in a lot of manga and anime.
      Maybe that's just you, but I'm going to believe that Nicolo feels remorse. He acted out of blind rage; it's not like he was calculating "I'm going to kill those two brats" since he heard Sasha died. Earlier in this chapter, Nicolo actually wonders "What was wrong with me, I nearly killed a kid" and then breaks down. He's trying to act responsible for his actions.

      I just have a hard time believing someone could change their mind in such a short time span, whether it was impulse or not. Frankly, I liked Nicolo's character a lot better before, considering Isayama has literred the Marley arc onward with anti-revenge crap. It was nice to have a character acting on basic human emotion rather than unbelievable preachiness (looking at you Mr. Blaus, I still hate you and Mikasa both lol), and I really thought Nicolo would be kind of an independent/third party between the Yeagerists' plans with trying to destroy their enemies for good and the SC which has fallen into a pointless circle of attempted peace talks.

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    • So, if we take Eren's words seriously, what do you guys think about what happened to Mikasa when she heard Eren died the first time? She was still fighting, for his memories, and the time with the Smiling Titan's return, she didn't exactly put all her effort into protecting Eren, rather spend her last moments with him. And then, Eren contradicts what he presently said about 'always' hating her, by keeping her down while he promises to wrap that scarve over her _forever_, even taking up the strength to fight back with the Smiling Titan.

      I gotta say, I really like that fact that this series actually works on lies. Like most anime I saw, when someone talks seriously, it's almost always the truth, while here, Zeke's lies made the fact that anything can be a lie.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote:
      So, if we take Eren's words seriously, what do you guys think about what happened to Mikasa when she heard Eren died the first time? She was still fighting, for his memories, and the time with the Smiling Titan's return, she didn't exactly put all her effort into protecting Eren, rather spend her last moments with him. And then, Eren contradicts what he presently said about 'always' hating her, by keeping her down while he promises to wrap that scarve over her _forever_, even taking up the strength to fight back with the Smiling Titan.

      (Speculation) It's a vague thought for now, but I think she might have been 'released' from her host the moment she thought Eren died. That Lost Girls 3 bit I mentioned, intentionally or no, is taking place at that moment where her 'real' seft can be seen as acting against an Ackermann part. Her standing up might have more to do with her own feelings towards Eren's memory in that scenario. Then, Attack Titan enters the picture, Mikasa acts like she recognizes it as Eren, and the Ackermann part wins again, reaquiring the host.


      The ch50 bit, I think it's just her still being a human and having limits, plus, there wasn't exactly a point where Eren was directly endangered while refusing to continue fighting, so she had to do it instead. Personally, I'd really love to say it's becasue she was free from an Ackermann bond at this time, after it being broken in the events mentioned above, but that is thrown out of the window by her restraining Armin in the current chapter, as much as I wanted to think Mikasa actually had free will all this time.

      All in all, I do think Eren is at least saying half-truths to both Mikasa and Armin (tbh, I still think he outright lies to Armin), and I don't think he hates her at all. If it is Eren talking, not someone else, that is. I also wonder if he actually is looking for Zeke to start the Rumbling and 'save Eldia', since the WHT knowledge is still a wildcard that might make him realize another solution Zeke might be unaware of.

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    • Marco1995mega wrote:
      ErenZeke2020 wrote:
      I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

      Eren said that the 'awakening' grants them the combat experience of all the previous Ackermans, but not the combat skill.  There's a difference. Basically, it means they have the honed instincts of a veteran combatant but still need to acquire skills and techniques through training and personal battle experience. That's why Levi's a better Titan killer; he's fought them far more than her and has trained for longer.

      skill comes about via experience's so if it grants them the combat experience of all previous Ackermans than yes it does give combat skill.

        Loading editor
    • Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      ErenZeke2020 wrote:
      I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

      Eren said that the 'awakening' grants them the combat experience of all the previous Ackermans, but not the combat skill.  There's a difference. Basically, it means they have the honed instincts of a veteran combatant but still need to acquire skills and techniques through training and personal battle experience. That's why Levi's a better Titan killer; he's fought them far more than her and has trained for longer.
      skill comes about via experience's so if it grants them the combat experience of all previous Ackermans than yes it does give combat skill.

      Perhaps to some extent, but not entirely. Skill comes through repeated training, because your body remembers the motions you make of a technique so well, it becomes reflex; muscle memory. However, the awakening does not give them the memories of previous Ackermans, but a sort instinctive knowledge of 'what might be best' in a situation, so it's still limited. After all, despite Mikasa catching him off guard, Bertolt still overwhelmed her temporarily. It gives Ackermans an advantage, true, plus the enhanced physical strength, but if they truly got all the combat skills and muscle memory of everybody before them, for example, Mikasa should've been the top at hand-to-hand combat in the 104th instead of Eren and Annie, or as ErenZeke2020 mentioned, there should've been little to no difference between Mikasa's and Levi's level of skill, and yet, there is.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote: Overall I thought this was a fine chapter as it didn't particularly blow me away in any respect but it also didn't have many terrible aspects.

      Positives:

      - EMA finally interacted and while I doubt Eren really meant anything he said (he's acting like a dick to protect his friends IMO) it atleast showed a clear focus on what matters for the first time since 108. So overall pretty solid conversation and a step in the right direction.

      - The insight into the Ackermann condition was fascinating.

      - The ending was a pretty great visual with the titans raining down on Levi and its a pretty exciting way to close out the chapter with Levi on the razors edge once again.

      Negtives:

      - The events are still convoluted with Eren bursting in right after Nicolo's meltdown and it seemed like another weak attempt to make Gabi learn something by having Eren act like a psychotic (even if it is fake) in front of her as some sort of cautionary tale for what she might become.

      - The chapter was generally predictable and I don't think it was done any favors by the arcs lethargic pacing as I did feel that this chapter would have hit harder if it was 2 chapters ago as these moments and twists were generally okay but it didn't need that level of buildup for things that were a given in 108 (wine poisoning especially).

      - Zeke's character is still frustrating and I just don't buy that he is this intelligent mastermind akin to Moriarty when he's as trustworthy as a hobo on meth and constantly talks in annoying riddles. The omnipotence of the character is also hard to believe even with Eren in his corner as it requires Yelena, Nicolo, Onyankopon, or Eren to be everywhere at once when three of them would have been carefully watched due to their status as potential spies and if the wine did come spiked on the boats why would anyone drink it? 

      okay first of all that negative about Gabi that to make a "weak attempt" to make her look good by Eren. First of all Gabi have nothing to do with Eren or this chapter. Secondly, stop making everything about Gabi jeezus.
      
        Loading editor
    • Have to admit that this was a big leap forward instead of slow place we are heading to the bigger battle ahead.

        Loading editor
    • TheMagicalWonders wrote: Aww, I don't get dibs on first message. :^

      This chapter was great; it's really starting to build up the arc for the conflict that will happen later. I think it's been three months since I've personally enjoyed a chapter this much. 10/10.

      Two things that piqued my interest were the entire EMA scene and Levi's inner thoughts at the forest. It seems like former Levi squad still do not know much about Historia, because if they did Levi's thoughts would probably be longer. The EMA scene also can potentially bring in a lot of plot points and could potentially give us clues to their fates in the near future.

      Other:

      • Kudos to this Reddit post by u/rubbie for accurately predicting that "There are a couple of things that make me believe this dude could have a much bigger role in the wine plan than people expect:".
      • Kudos to this thread started by Wambo225 for bringing up a good observation about Mikasa's headaches.

      Nice find there.

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Freeman1378 wrote: Overall I thought this was a fine chapter as it didn't particularly blow me away in any respect but it also didn't have many terrible aspects.

      Positives:

      - EMA finally interacted and while I doubt Eren really meant anything he said (he's acting like a dick to protect his friends IMO) it atleast showed a clear focus on what matters for the first time since 108. So overall pretty solid conversation and a step in the right direction.

      - The insight into the Ackermann condition was fascinating.

      - The ending was a pretty great visual with the titans raining down on Levi and its a pretty exciting way to close out the chapter with Levi on the razors edge once again.

      Negtives:

      - The events are still convoluted with Eren bursting in right after Nicolo's meltdown and it seemed like another weak attempt to make Gabi learn something by having Eren act like a psychotic (even if it is fake) in front of her as some sort of cautionary tale for what she might become.

      - The chapter was generally predictable and I don't think it was done any favors by the arcs lethargic pacing as I did feel that this chapter would have hit harder if it was 2 chapters ago as these moments and twists were generally okay but it didn't need that level of buildup for things that were a given in 108 (wine poisoning especially).

      - Zeke's character is still frustrating and I just don't buy that he is this intelligent mastermind akin to Moriarty when he's as trustworthy as a hobo on meth and constantly talks in annoying riddles. The omnipotence of the character is also hard to believe even with Eren in his corner as it requires Yelena, Nicolo, Onyankopon, or Eren to be everywhere at once when three of them would have been carefully watched due to their status as potential spies and if the wine did come spiked on the boats why would anyone drink it? 

      okay first of all that negative about Gabi that to make a "weak attempt" to make her look good by Eren. First of all Gabi have nothing to do with Eren or this chapter. Secondly, stop making everything about Gabi jeezus.

      I thought the scene was generally good just the timing for the opening was odd as it felt like a telenovella and I think the reason she was there was obvious (she is Eren's shadow after all) as she didn't add much to the scene and was a bystander for all of it (I don't even think she had a line of dialogue) but what I was trying to primarily say was that I think a little flash forward to sometime after last chapters events would have made the opening run a little smoother (maybe after a report to Pixis?) as the events of this arc for me are convoluted and unnatural in their structure and the opening to the conversation suffered from the same thing ableit on a much smaller scale than the rest of Gabi's current arc. So overall it's a minor issue that just stuck out to me when I was doing my pros and cons. 

        Loading editor
    • Marco1995mega wrote:
      Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      ErenZeke2020 wrote:
      I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

      Eren said that the 'awakening' grants them the combat experience of all the previous Ackermans, but not the combat skill.  There's a difference. Basically, it means they have the honed instincts of a veteran combatant but still need to acquire skills and techniques through training and personal battle experience. That's why Levi's a better Titan killer; he's fought them far more than her and has trained for longer.
      skill comes about via experience's so if it grants them the combat experience of all previous Ackermans than yes it does give combat skill.
      Perhaps to some extent, but not entirely. Skill comes through repeated training, because your body remembers the motions you make of a technique so well, it becomes reflex; muscle memory. However, the awakening does not give them the memories of previous Ackermans, but a sort instinctive knowledge of 'what might be best' in a situation, so it's still limited. After all, despite Mikasa catching him off guard, Bertolt still overwhelmed her temporarily. It gives Ackermans an advantage, true, plus the enhanced physical strength, but if they truly got all the combat skills and muscle memory of everybody before them, for example, Mikasa should've been the top at hand-to-hand combat in the 104th instead of Eren and Annie, or as ErenZeke2020 mentioned, there should've been little to no difference between Mikasa's and Levi's level of skill, and yet, there is.

      yea none of that is even remotely correct, 1 there is no such thing as muscle memory, our muscles have no memory capacity and its not actually the repeated motion that gives you skill. you repeat a motion and your brain creates links between your body and the neurons in your brain. when you activate those neurons it tells your body to respond to a given stimuli.

      if all the ackermans are linked via pathways that once they awaken they awaken the accumulated experience of all past awakened ackermans than what i said would be 100% ACCURATE. if this happens the way eren explained than the moment this awakening happens would mean the ackermans brain would instantly create a bunch of neuropathways that would have instantly memorized the combat experience's of all the past awakened ackermans. this is an actual FACT.



      we also see this happen the moment Mikasa awakened when her brain started firing off synapses and neurons.



      our skill isn't housed in the body but housed solely in the  our synsapses and neurons.

      the entire concept of the matrix was based on this fact

      it doesn't matter how many repititions you do as like i said your muscles don't remember anything and the repeated motion doesn't actually make it easier to do said motion its the synapses and neurons firing in proper sucession that creates the reflex and the ability to do a motion easier. 

      and as i said experience is actually the most important factor in a fight. a martial artist who spends every waking minute learning techniques won't be a skilled fighter. its only through the actual experiences of fighting that develops a competant fighter.  

      the awakened ackerman gains the experiences of every other awakened ackerman and therfore there skill as well,

      its the same thing with strength training, its not the weight lifting that develops strength

      Evidence has shown that increases in strength occur well before muscle hypertrophy 

      muscle strength is first influenced by the inner neural circuitry, rather than by external physiological changes in the muscle size.

      Previously untrained muscles acquire newly formed nuclei by fusion of satellite cells preceding the hypertrophy. Subsequent detraining leads to atrophy but no loss of myo-nuclei

      when a body buidler or strength trainer has a long standing gap in the time he or she has worked out last and atrophy has kicked in, its easier for them to go back to the gym and train and reduse atrophy because the neurons in the brain force the previously developed fibers to activate and as such they can quickly rebuild any lost strength.



      the major difference in the ackermans is that the awakened experiences would result in a bunch of neurons to be created,. these new neurons have the stored experience of all ackermans which is how mikasa was able to break the floor board, because she was tapping into the strength of all previous ackermans. again proving the fact that skill is bound in the experience not the repitition of any activity

        Loading editor
    • Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      ErenZeke2020 wrote:
      I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

      Eren said that the 'awakening' grants them the combat experience of all the previous Ackermans, but not the combat skill.  There's a difference. Basically, it means they have the honed instincts of a veteran combatant but still need to acquire skills and techniques through training and personal battle experience. That's why Levi's a better Titan killer; he's fought them far more than her and has trained for longer.
      skill comes about via experience's so if it grants them the combat experience of all previous Ackermans than yes it does give combat skill.
      Perhaps to some extent, but not entirely. Skill comes through repeated training, because your body remembers the motions you make of a technique so well, it becomes reflex; muscle memory. However, the awakening does not give them the memories of previous Ackermans, but a sort instinctive knowledge of 'what might be best' in a situation, so it's still limited. After all, despite Mikasa catching him off guard, Bertolt still overwhelmed her temporarily. It gives Ackermans an advantage, true, plus the enhanced physical strength, but if they truly got all the combat skills and muscle memory of everybody before them, for example, Mikasa should've been the top at hand-to-hand combat in the 104th instead of Eren and Annie, or as ErenZeke2020 mentioned, there should've been little to no difference between Mikasa's and Levi's level of skill, and yet, there is.
      yea none of that is even remotely correct, 1 there is no such thing as muscle memory, our muscles have no memory capacity and its not actually the repeated motion that gives you skill. you repeat a motion and your brain creates links between your body and the neurons in your brain. when you activate those neurons it tells your body to respond to a given stimuli.

      if all the ackermans are linked via pathways that once they awaken they awaken the accumulated experience of all past awakened ackermans than what i said would be 100% ACCURATE. if this happens the way eren explained than the moment this awakening happens would mean the ackermans brain would instantly create a bunch of neuropathways that would have instantly memorized the combat experience's of all the past awakened ackermans. this is an actual FACT.



      we also see this happen the moment Mikasa awakened when her brain started firing off synapses and neurons.



      our skill isn't housed in the body but housed solely in the  our synsapses and neurons.

      the entire concept of the matrix was based on this fact

      it doesn't matter how many repititions you do as like i said your muscles don't remember anything and the repeated motion doesn't actually make it easier to do said motion its the synapses and neurons firing in proper sucession that creates the reflex and the ability to do a motion easier. 

      and as i said experience is actually the most important factor in a fight. a martial artist who spends every waking minute learning techniques won't be a skilled fighter. its only through the actual experiences of fighting that develops a competant fighter.  

      the awakened ackerman gains the experiences of every other awakened ackerman and therfore there skill as well,

      its the same thing with strength training, its not the weight lifting that develops strength

      Evidence has shown that increases in strength occur well before muscle hypertrophy 

      muscle strength is first influenced by the inner neural circuitry, rather than by external physiological changes in the muscle size.

      Previously untrained muscles acquire newly formed nuclei by fusion of satellite cells preceding the hypertrophy. Subsequent detraining leads to atrophy but no loss of myo-nuclei

      when a body buidler or strength trainer has a long standing gap in the time he or she has worked out last and atrophy has kicked in, its easier for them to go back to the gym and train and reduse atrophy because the neurons in the brain force the previously developed fibers to activate and as such they can quickly rebuild any lost strength.



      the major difference in the ackermans is that the awakened experiences would result in a bunch of neurons to be created,. these new neurons have the stored experience of all ackermans which is how mikasa was able to break the floor board, because she was tapping into the strength of all previous ackermans. again proving the fact that skill is bound in the experience not the repitition of any activity

      Thank you for giving a very comprehensive answer. However, I'm well aware that muscle memory is a misnomer; I know the body doesn't actually  'remember' anything. It was merely a way of getting the idea across. I also know about the subconscious neural pathways that allow us to perform instinctive actions. However, at the same time, you fail to realize that, in order to acquire skill, while it is thanks to these neural pathways that we acquire them, we still NEED to train and practice BEFORE they become subconscious. Also with weight training. You're right about the nuclei, but you still NEED to lift weights (or do anything else that tear your muscle fibers) to get those muscles. And when learning to walk, a baby still needs to CONSCIOUSLY practice the motions before they become subconscious.

      I'm a judoka, and I tell you, if you told me that repeating a technique wasn't going to get me anywhere, I wouldn't be nearly as good as I am now. No martial artist would. Yes, experience in battle helps in the acquisition of fighting skill, but in the way that it hones and helps refine practiced skill that is already there; skill that you gain through training and, yes, repetition. Training develops a foundation and builds upon it, while battle experience adds further to it. If there is no foundation, combat experience it has little to nothing to build upon.

      Now, I'm not saying that experience alone is worthless without training. Not at all. Like I said, even if it doesn't help develop refined fighting skills, it does help develop instincts that give you a sense of, as Levi said, 'knowing what to do', or more precisely, knowing where to hit your opponent to try and end the fight quickly. For example, between an experienced brawler and a trained martial artist who's only fought in a few tournaments, the odds are about 50:50, maybe a bit more in the MA's advantage. In this case, the MA has a more effective and refined fighting style, but the brawler has better instincts on knowing how to end a fight in one or two blows or gain a sudden advantage. For example, he will know to go for the jugular or the groin or some other vital area, or improvise with a makeshift weapon he found lying around, but even if he does land the blow and get the upper hand, he's most likely going to perform it with a, at the least, somewhat sloppy and crude execution. If the martial artist manages to do the same thing, he's most likely going to be faster about it, have less wasted movements, and be ready with a follow-up move.

      The Ackermans are like the experienced brawler, initially at least. They have great instincts and reflexes with perhaps a slightly superior level of refinement in their fighting capabilities. However, Levi is much more practiced in killing Titans and has trained for longer, and thus Mikasa, who's also trained but less, is not as good as him, because he also developed this foundation through practice, building upon it through further practice, and enhanced it further with real, personal experience. At the same time, against Bertolt with superior martial arts training, let alone Annie, Mikasa would have a lot of trouble, maybe even lose. Battle experience helps tie all these techniques, maneuvers, and reflexes you've gained through training and practice into a viable fighting style, like with Annie. If there are none of the aforementioned technical prowess, then battle experience has nothing to build upon. Instead, it gives you some knowledge that becomes instinctive (still effective, though), and maybe teaches you how to throw a punch or two. As the saying goes, "practice makes perfect". The Ackermans gain the fighting experience, but none of the training that previous ones CONSCIOUSLY performed, and thus, the 'awakened' Ackermans also need to train to acquire and/or enhance their fighting skills.

      Another issue is that you might be looking just a bit too deep into this. While everything you said about neurons and the nervous system is true, Isayama's probably not going to be that anal retentive about it. Not everything is going to be 100% real-world logical. I mean, it's not like Titans actually exist, and it's not like the Ackermans suddenly get super buff when the awakening increases their physical strength in a matter of seconds. I also have to contradict you on this part. They get their enhanced strength not from previous Ackermans, but by taking a bit of the Power of the Titans while still keeping their human form.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Freeman1378 wrote: Overall I thought this was a fine chapter as it didn't particularly blow me away in any respect but it also didn't have many terrible aspects.

      Positives:

      - EMA finally interacted and while I doubt Eren really meant anything he said (he's acting like a dick to protect his friends IMO) it atleast showed a clear focus on what matters for the first time since 108. So overall pretty solid conversation and a step in the right direction.

      - The insight into the Ackermann condition was fascinating.

      - The ending was a pretty great visual with the titans raining down on Levi and its a pretty exciting way to close out the chapter with Levi on the razors edge once again.

      Negtives:

      - The events are still convoluted with Eren bursting in right after Nicolo's meltdown and it seemed like another weak attempt to make Gabi learn something by having Eren act like a psychotic (even if it is fake) in front of her as some sort of cautionary tale for what she might become.

      - The chapter was generally predictable and I don't think it was done any favors by the arcs lethargic pacing as I did feel that this chapter would have hit harder if it was 2 chapters ago as these moments and twists were generally okay but it didn't need that level of buildup for things that were a given in 108 (wine poisoning especially).

      - Zeke's character is still frustrating and I just don't buy that he is this intelligent mastermind akin to Moriarty when he's as trustworthy as a hobo on meth and constantly talks in annoying riddles. The omnipotence of the character is also hard to believe even with Eren in his corner as it requires Yelena, Nicolo, Onyankopon, or Eren to be everywhere at once when three of them would have been carefully watched due to their status as potential spies and if the wine did come spiked on the boats why would anyone drink it? 

      okay first of all that negative about Gabi that to make a "weak attempt" to make her look good by Eren. First of all Gabi have nothing to do with Eren or this chapter. Secondly, stop making everything about Gabi jeezus.

      I thought the scene was generally good just the timing for the opening was odd as it felt like a telenovella and I think the reason she was there was obvious (she is Eren's shadow after all) as she didn't add much to the scene and was a bystander for all of it (I don't even think she had a line of dialogue) but what I was trying to primarily say was that I think a little flash forward to sometime after last chapters events would have made the opening run a little smoother (maybe after a report to Pixis?) as the events of this arc for me are convoluted and unnatural in their structure and the opening to the conversation suffered from the same thing ableit on a much smaller scale than the rest of Gabi's current arc. So overall it's a minor issue that just stuck out to me when I was doing my pros and cons. 

      Well okay...I can see your point somewhat, as this felt rushed to just get to the actual meat of the battle. Which to be fair is needed as we have been going through slow pace with big developments, nonetheless pretty slow these past couple of chapters.

        Loading editor
    • Marco1995mega wrote:
      Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      ErenZeke2020 wrote:
      I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

      Eren said that the 'awakening' grants them the combat experience of all the previous Ackermans, but not the combat skill.  There's a difference. Basically, it means they have the honed instincts of a veteran combatant but still need to acquire skills and techniques through training and personal battle experience. That's why Levi's a better Titan killer; he's fought them far more than her and has trained for longer.
      skill comes about via experience's so if it grants them the combat experience of all previous Ackermans than yes it does give combat skill.
      Perhaps to some extent, but not entirely. Skill comes through repeated training, because your body remembers the motions you make of a technique so well, it becomes reflex; muscle memory. However, the awakening does not give them the memories of previous Ackermans, but a sort instinctive knowledge of 'what might be best' in a situation, so it's still limited. After all, despite Mikasa catching him off guard, Bertolt still overwhelmed her temporarily. It gives Ackermans an advantage, true, plus the enhanced physical strength, but if they truly got all the combat skills and muscle memory of everybody before them, for example, Mikasa should've been the top at hand-to-hand combat in the 104th instead of Eren and Annie, or as ErenZeke2020 mentioned, there should've been little to no difference between Mikasa's and Levi's level of skill, and yet, there is.
      yea none of that is even remotely correct, 1 there is no such thing as muscle memory, our muscles have no memory capacity and its not actually the repeated motion that gives you skill. you repeat a motion and your brain creates links between your body and the neurons in your brain. when you activate those neurons it tells your body to respond to a given stimuli.

      if all the ackermans are linked via pathways that once they awaken they awaken the accumulated experience of all past awakened ackermans than what i said would be 100% ACCURATE. if this happens the way eren explained than the moment this awakening happens would mean the ackermans brain would instantly create a bunch of neuropathways that would have instantly memorized the combat experience's of all the past awakened ackermans. this is an actual FACT.



      we also see this happen the moment Mikasa awakened when her brain started firing off synapses and neurons.



      our skill isn't housed in the body but housed solely in the  our synsapses and neurons.

      the entire concept of the matrix was based on this fact

      it doesn't matter how many repititions you do as like i said your muscles don't remember anything and the repeated motion doesn't actually make it easier to do said motion its the synapses and neurons firing in proper sucession that creates the reflex and the ability to do a motion easier. 

      and as i said experience is actually the most important factor in a fight. a martial artist who spends every waking minute learning techniques won't be a skilled fighter. its only through the actual experiences of fighting that develops a competant fighter.  

      the awakened ackerman gains the experiences of every other awakened ackerman and therfore there skill as well,

      its the same thing with strength training, its not the weight lifting that develops strength

      Evidence has shown that increases in strength occur well before muscle hypertrophy 

      muscle strength is first influenced by the inner neural circuitry, rather than by external physiological changes in the muscle size.

      Previously untrained muscles acquire newly formed nuclei by fusion of satellite cells preceding the hypertrophy. Subsequent detraining leads to atrophy but no loss of myo-nuclei

      when a body buidler or strength trainer has a long standing gap in the time he or she has worked out last and atrophy has kicked in, its easier for them to go back to the gym and train and reduse atrophy because the neurons in the brain force the previously developed fibers to activate and as such they can quickly rebuild any lost strength.



      the major difference in the ackermans is that the awakened experiences would result in a bunch of neurons to be created,. these new neurons have the stored experience of all ackermans which is how mikasa was able to break the floor board, because she was tapping into the strength of all previous ackermans. again proving the fact that skill is bound in the experience not the repitition of any activity

      Thank you for giving a very comprehensive answer. However, I'm well aware that muscle memory is a misnomer; I know the body doesn't actually  'remember' anything. It was merely a way of getting the idea across. I also know about the subconscious neural pathways that allow us to perform instinctive actions. However, at the same time, you fail to realize that, in order to acquire skill, while it is thanks to these neural pathways that we acquire them, we still NEED to train and practice BEFORE they become subconscious. Also with weight training. You're right about the nuclei, but you still NEED to lift weights (or do anything else that tear your muscle fibers) to get those muscles. And when learning to walk, a baby still needs to CONSCIOUSLY practice the motions before they become subconscious.

      I'm a judoka, and I tell you, if you told me that repeating a technique wasn't going to get me anywhere, I wouldn't be nearly as good as I am now. No martial artist would. Yes, experience in battle helps in the acquisition of fighting skill, but in the way that it hones and helps refine practiced skill that is already there; skill that you gain through training and, yes, repetition. Training develops a foundation and builds upon it, while battle experience adds further to it. If there is no foundation, combat experience it has little to nothing to build upon.

      Now, I'm not saying that experience alone is worthless without training. Not at all. Like I said, even if it doesn't help develop refined fighting skills, it does help develop instincts that give you a sense of, as Levi said, 'knowing what to do', or more precisely, knowing where to hit your opponent to try and end the fight quickly. For example, between an experienced brawler and a trained martial artist who's only fought in a few tournaments, the odds are about 50:50, maybe a bit more in the MA's advantage. In this case, the MA has a more effective and refined fighting style, but the brawler has better instincts on knowing how to end a fight in one or two blows or gain a sudden advantage. For example, he will know to go for the jugular or the groin or some other vital area, or improvise with a makeshift weapon he found lying around, but even if he does land the blow and get the upper hand, he's most likely going to perform it with a, at the least, somewhat sloppy and crude execution. If the martial artist manages to do the same thing, he's most likely going to be faster about it, have less wasted movements, and be ready with a follow-up move.

      The Ackermans are like the experienced brawler, initially at least. They have great instincts and reflexes with perhaps a slightly superior level of refinement in their fighting capabilities. However, Levi is much more practiced in killing Titans and has trained for longer, and thus Mikasa, who's also trained but less, is not as good as him, because he also developed this foundation through practice, building upon it through further practice, and enhanced it further with real, personal experience. At the same time, against Bertolt with superior martial arts training, let alone Annie, Mikasa would have a lot of trouble, maybe even lose. Battle experience helps tie all these techniques, maneuvers, and reflexes you've gained through training and practice into a viable fighting style, like with Annie. If there are none of the aforementioned technical prowess, then battle experience has nothing to build upon. Instead, it gives you some knowledge that becomes instinctive (still effective, though), and maybe teaches you how to throw a punch or two. As the saying goes, "practice makes perfect". The Ackermans gain the fighting experience, but none of the training that previous ones CONSCIOUSLY performed, and thus, the 'awakened' Ackermans also need to train to acquire and/or enhance their fighting skills.

      Another issue is that you might be looking just a bit too deep into this. While everything you said about neurons and the nervous system is true, Isayama's probably not going to be that anal retentive about it. Not everything is going to be 100% real-world logical. I mean, it's not like Titans actually exist, and it's not like the Ackermans suddenly get super buff when the awakening increases their physical strength in a matter of seconds. I also have to contradict you on this part. They get their enhanced strength not from previous Ackermans, but by taking a bit of the Power of the Titans while still keeping their human form.

      your still wrong. actual scientists have debunked this. there is a group of scientists currently working on a system like the  matrix, they have stated on scientific journels that if you had a system like the matrix you would never have to train hundreds of hours to develop a physical skill. the system would create the neuropathways. and once you tried to do the activity those neurons would force your muscles to respond. you would initially have a time frame in which the activity would be effected by a lack of stamina but because the way muslces are activated you could quickly develop the stamina to do the activity with a few days to weeks of moderate exorcise.

      the Neurons would force the muslces to activate, you would initially feel sore after the new physical activity but quickly acclimate. and since an adult human has already trained there body just by doing regular physical activity, you could easily develop the physical stamina. your reflexes are purely a result of snyapses and neurons firing. so the ability to fight would come instant, and like i said you would initially have stamina issues but the experts agree that that would be only the initial effect, you would acclimate with very little required actual physical activity and that physical training would only need to be moderate cardio 



      let me expand on what i am saying. i never once said they would instantly be expert Judoka. what i am saying, is that most of the work done in a physical activity is done by our neurons, this is an absolute scientific fact. the physical activity done to develop a physical skills main point is to develop neuropathways between the brain and the muscle fibers. once those pathways are created they are perminent after you do an acitivity to a specific level you can always get back to that point, lets say you develop yourself to the level of a champion power lifter and get sick and go six months without training. 

      you can always pick up some weights and than train easier to get back to that level. 

      lets say you start power lifting training today and 2 years from now you now you have developed your strength to a level of XX , than you get sick and go six months without lifting. than you are healthy. it won't take you another 2 years to get back up to XX. it would take you a few months at most depending on how hard you train again. someone doing moderate training could get back up to the level they had previously developed themselves in 4 or 5 months

      lets use judo as a more in depth example. studies have concluded that it takes around 1100-1500 repetitions to build an efficient ability to do a take down in any grappling art, be it judo, jiu jitsu etc etc. a good chunk of those repititions are spent on the creation of neuropathways. once those neuropathways are created the very little reps left over are meant mainly for the quick acclimation of the muscles to build stamina.

      so if you had a system like in the matrix or a way to instantly develop the neuropathways like the ackerman clan it wouldn't take you 1100 to 1500 reps to learn grappling, because the neurons are what allow you to recall the technique the training you do would only be to acclimate the muscles so instead of 1100 to 1500 reps you would only require a maybe 300 or 400 reps to learn said take down

      so for Mikasa when she awakened she gained the experience's of all past awakened ackermans but she also didn't spend years training. so she was a beast and largely capable of taking on any non ackermans. 

      but once she went into the military and started training she wouldn't have needed years to gain skill. she would have only required months of training to truly become a skilled ackerman 



      the Karate champion Joe Lewis attained his black belt in only 7 months of training and became full contact world champion with only 22 months of training he won the grand championship of his very first tournement he faught in. in books he attributed to his speed in attaining the skills he had to his instructors who ensured that had the proper and efficient striking before ever having him drill those strikes. so he didn't need to do thousands of drills to learn a martial arts technique

      but if you could instantly create all the neuropathways you would start your training already knowing the correct form to do the physical activity so every time you practice you would be practicing correctly so you wouldn't need years upon years to develop olympic levels of skill in say TKD or Judo etc



      thats all i am saying. Mikasa instantly had the skills downloaded into her brain and would have required a small amount of physical training to physically realize it

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      Actionmanrandell wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      ErenZeke2020 wrote:
      I just realized that Eren's claim about the Ackerman power giving the user the experience of all other Ackermans may have a hole. 

      Mikasa is tough but Levi clearly has Titan killing skills that she doesn't. We have never seen her use his beyblade attack.

      The only answer I can think of is that when the Ackerman power is activated, it gives the user a screen shot of the current accumulated skill level of the Ackerman clan, but the pathways are cut after that. Then Levi may have raised the bar on the Ackerman clans skill level while Mikasa was growing up.

      Eren said that the 'awakening' grants them the combat experience of all the previous Ackermans, but not the combat skill.  There's a difference. Basically, it means they have the honed instincts of a veteran combatant but still need to acquire skills and techniques through training and personal battle experience. That's why Levi's a better Titan killer; he's fought them far more than her and has trained for longer.
      skill comes about via experience's so if it grants them the combat experience of all previous Ackermans than yes it does give combat skill.
      Perhaps to some extent, but not entirely. Skill comes through repeated training, because your body remembers the motions you make of a technique so well, it becomes reflex; muscle memory. However, the awakening does not give them the memories of previous Ackermans, but a sort instinctive knowledge of 'what might be best' in a situation, so it's still limited. After all, despite Mikasa catching him off guard, Bertolt still overwhelmed her temporarily. It gives Ackermans an advantage, true, plus the enhanced physical strength, but if they truly got all the combat skills and muscle memory of everybody before them, for example, Mikasa should've been the top at hand-to-hand combat in the 104th instead of Eren and Annie, or as ErenZeke2020 mentioned, there should've been little to no difference between Mikasa's and Levi's level of skill, and yet, there is.
      yea none of that is even remotely correct, 1 there is no such thing as muscle memory, our muscles have no memory capacity and its not actually the repeated motion that gives you skill. you repeat a motion and your brain creates links between your body and the neurons in your brain. when you activate those neurons it tells your body to respond to a given stimuli.

      if all the ackermans are linked via pathways that once they awaken they awaken the accumulated experience of all past awakened ackermans than what i said would be 100% ACCURATE. if this happens the way eren explained than the moment this awakening happens would mean the ackermans brain would instantly create a bunch of neuropathways that would have instantly memorized the combat experience's of all the past awakened ackermans. this is an actual FACT.



      we also see this happen the moment Mikasa awakened when her brain started firing off synapses and neurons.



      our skill isn't housed in the body but housed solely in the  our synsapses and neurons.

      the entire concept of the matrix was based on this fact

      it doesn't matter how many repititions you do as like i said your muscles don't remember anything and the repeated motion doesn't actually make it easier to do said motion its the synapses and neurons firing in proper sucession that creates the reflex and the ability to do a motion easier. 

      and as i said experience is actually the most important factor in a fight. a martial artist who spends every waking minute learning techniques won't be a skilled fighter. its only through the actual experiences of fighting that develops a competant fighter.  

      the awakened ackerman gains the experiences of every other awakened ackerman and therfore there skill as well,

      its the same thing with strength training, its not the weight lifting that develops strength

      Evidence has shown that increases in strength occur well before muscle hypertrophy 

      muscle strength is first influenced by the inner neural circuitry, rather than by external physiological changes in the muscle size.

      Previously untrained muscles acquire newly formed nuclei by fusion of satellite cells preceding the hypertrophy. Subsequent detraining leads to atrophy but no loss of myo-nuclei

      when a body buidler or strength trainer has a long standing gap in the time he or she has worked out last and atrophy has kicked in, its easier for them to go back to the gym and train and reduse atrophy because the neurons in the brain force the previously developed fibers to activate and as such they can quickly rebuild any lost strength.



      the major difference in the ackermans is that the awakened experiences would result in a bunch of neurons to be created,. these new neurons have the stored experience of all ackermans which is how mikasa was able to break the floor board, because she was tapping into the strength of all previous ackermans. again proving the fact that skill is bound in the experience not the repitition of any activity

      Thank you for giving a very comprehensive answer. However, I'm well aware that muscle memory is a misnomer; I know the body doesn't actually  'remember' anything. It was merely a way of getting the idea across. I also know about the subconscious neural pathways that allow us to perform instinctive actions. However, at the same time, you fail to realize that, in order to acquire skill, while it is thanks to these neural pathways that we acquire them, we still NEED to train and practice BEFORE they become subconscious. Also with weight training. You're right about the nuclei, but you still NEED to lift weights (or do anything else that tear your muscle fibers) to get those muscles. And when learning to walk, a baby still needs to CONSCIOUSLY practice the motions before they become subconscious.

      I'm a judoka, and I tell you, if you told me that repeating a technique wasn't going to get me anywhere, I wouldn't be nearly as good as I am now. No martial artist would. Yes, experience in battle helps in the acquisition of fighting skill, but in the way that it hones and helps refine practiced skill that is already there; skill that you gain through training and, yes, repetition. Training develops a foundation and builds upon it, while battle experience adds further to it. If there is no foundation, combat experience it has little to nothing to build upon.

      Now, I'm not saying that experience alone is worthless without training. Not at all. Like I said, even if it doesn't help develop refined fighting skills, it does help develop instincts that give you a sense of, as Levi said, 'knowing what to do', or more precisely, knowing where to hit your opponent to try and end the fight quickly. For example, between an experienced brawler and a trained martial artist who's only fought in a few tournaments, the odds are about 50:50, maybe a bit more in the MA's advantage. In this case, the MA has a more effective and refined fighting style, but the brawler has better instincts on knowing how to end a fight in one or two blows or gain a sudden advantage. For example, he will know to go for the jugular or the groin or some other vital area, or improvise with a makeshift weapon he found lying around, but even if he does land the blow and get the upper hand, he's most likely going to perform it with a, at the least, somewhat sloppy and crude execution. If the martial artist manages to do the same thing, he's most likely going to be faster about it, have less wasted movements, and be ready with a follow-up move.

      The Ackermans are like the experienced brawler, initially at least. They have great instincts and reflexes with perhaps a slightly superior level of refinement in their fighting capabilities. However, Levi is much more practiced in killing Titans and has trained for longer, and thus Mikasa, who's also trained but less, is not as good as him, because he also developed this foundation through practice, building upon it through further practice, and enhanced it further with real, personal experience. At the same time, against Bertolt with superior martial arts training, let alone Annie, Mikasa would have a lot of trouble, maybe even lose. Battle experience helps tie all these techniques, maneuvers, and reflexes you've gained through training and practice into a viable fighting style, like with Annie. If there are none of the aforementioned technical prowess, then battle experience has nothing to build upon. Instead, it gives you some knowledge that becomes instinctive (still effective, though), and maybe teaches you how to throw a punch or two. As the saying goes, "practice makes perfect". The Ackermans gain the fighting experience, but none of the training that previous ones CONSCIOUSLY performed, and thus, the 'awakened' Ackermans also need to train to acquire and/or enhance their fighting skills.

      Another issue is that you might be looking just a bit too deep into this. While everything you said about neurons and the nervous system is true, Isayama's probably not going to be that anal retentive about it. Not everything is going to be 100% real-world logical. I mean, it's not like Titans actually exist, and it's not like the Ackermans suddenly get super buff when the awakening increases their physical strength in a matter of seconds. I also have to contradict you on this part. They get their enhanced strength not from previous Ackermans, but by taking a bit of the Power of the Titans while still keeping their human form.

      your still wrong. actual scientists have debunked this. there is a group of scientists currently working on a system like the  matrix, they have stated on scientific journels that if you had a system like the matrix you would never have to train hundreds of hours to develop a physical skill. the system would create the neuropathways. and once you tried to do the activity those neurons would force your muscles to respond. you would initially have a time frame in which the activity would be effected by a lack of stamina but because the way muslces are activated you could quickly develop the stamina to do the activity with a few days to weeks of moderate exorcise.

      the Neurons would force the muslces to activate, you would initially feel sore after the new physical activity but quickly acclimate. and since an adult human has already trained there body just by doing regular physical activity, you could easily develop the physical stamina. your reflexes are purely a result of snyapses and neurons firing. so the ability to fight would come instant, and like i said you would initially have stamina issues but the experts agree that that would be only the initial effect, you would acclimate with very little required actual physical activity and that physical training would only need to be moderate cardio 



      let me expand on what i am saying. i never once said they would instantly be expert Judoka. what i am saying, is that most of the work done in a physical activity is done by our neurons, this is an absolute scientific fact. the physical activity done to develop a physical skills main point is to develop neuropathways between the brain and the muscle fibers. once those pathways are created they are perminent after you do an acitivity to a specific level you can always get back to that point, lets say you develop yourself to the level of a champion power lifter and get sick and go six months without training. 

      you can always pick up some weights and than train easier to get back to that level. 

      lets say you start power lifting training today and 2 years from now you now you have developed your strength to a level of XX , than you get sick and go six months without lifting. than you are healthy. it won't take you another 2 years to get back up to XX. it would take you a few months at most depending on how hard you train again. someone doing moderate training could get back up to the level they had previously developed themselves in 4 or 5 months

      lets use judo as a more in depth example. studies have concluded that it takes around 1100-1500 repetitions to build an efficient ability to do a take down in any grappling art, be it judo, jiu jitsu etc etc. a good chunk of those repititions are spent on the creation of neuropathways. once those neuropathways are created the very little reps left over are meant mainly for the quick acclimation of the muscles to build stamina.

      so if you had a system like in the matrix or a way to instantly develop the neuropathways like the ackerman clan it wouldn't take you 1100 to 1500 reps to learn grappling, because the neurons are what allow you to recall the technique the training you do would only be to acclimate the muscles so instead of 1100 to 1500 reps you would only require a maybe 300 or 400 reps to learn said take down

      so for Mikasa when she awakened she gained the experience's of all past awakened ackermans but she also didn't spend years training. so she was a beast and largely capable of taking on any non ackermans. 

      but once she went into the military and started training she wouldn't have needed years to gain skill. she would have only required months of training to truly become a skilled ackerman 



      the Karate champion Joe Lewis attained his black belt in only 7 months of training and became full contact world champion with only 22 months of training he won the grand championship of his very first tournement he faught in. in books he attributed to his speed in attaining the skills he had to his instructors who ensured that had the proper and efficient striking before ever having him drill those strikes. so he didn't need to do thousands of drills to learn a martial arts technique

      but if you could instantly create all the neuropathways you would start your training already knowing the correct form to do the physical activity so every time you practice you would be practicing correctly so you wouldn't need years upon years to develop olympic levels of skill in say TKD or Judo etc



      thats all i am saying. Mikasa instantly had the skills downloaded into her brain and would have required a small amount of physical training to physically realize it

      It is possible that they don't get the experience of 'fighting in real combat', but instead merely the experience 'being in a combat situation'. Basically, that they don't get the experience of previous Ackermans fighting and applying their skills in fights, but just the experience of having consciously witnessed and been in the thick of it; experiencing the stressful, fast-paced conditions of combat, over and over and over again, but not the actual utilisation of combat prowess. In other words, it goes back to Levi's explanation of 'knowing what to do' and the experienced brawler example I mentioned earlier; a honed instinctive ability to quickly appraise a situation and see the best way to end it in your favor, with this enhanced speed of judgment also giving them faster reflexes. With the experience of a fuck-ton of Ackermans, it would make this ability practically superhuman. Because of this, there's less hesitation and wasted movements, and in addition to the enhanced reflexes and great physical strength, it gives Mikasa and Levi a distinct advantage against most others. It's like with combat operatives. Two soldiers or something similar might have an identical level of skill, but the more experienced one will have better reaction time and quicker and more efficient split-second judgment. It might be like this with the Ackermans, but only dialed up to 11 and then some, granting them some additional boosts to their abilities.

      Again, it might be we're looking too deep into this, narrative-wise.

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    • thats not how it works, if 2 individuals have identical skill levels thats that the one with more experience isn't going to have the advantage. Skills are the proficiencies developed through training or experiences you can attain skill via training or experiences or both. but none the less if two soldiers identically skilled than they are identically skilled, neither would have the advantage, because skill is defined as the ability to do something well or effficient if two people have identical skill it means they can use the training or experiences they have had efficiently, IE one soldier migt have gained skill via experience while the other one developed skill via training. doesn't change anything both are identically skilled and therfore neither has an advantage or have the ability to make quicker judgement etc 

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    • Perhaps I phrased it wrong. By skilled, I meant skill at arms, close quarters, and such. There are different facets and types of skills, even when referring to a certain type of situation (combat, in our case). Let's say the less experienced soldier is not only a better hand-to-hand combatant and is better at aiming and firing with a gun, but is also more naturally intelligent. That is, he is more skilled, but the more experienced but less skilled might still resolve a situation with more efficiency due to intuition, instincts and honed reaction time he/she gained through being in the thick of many more battles. I hope I was a bit more clear.

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    • everything you are talking about is all part of the bracket term of SKILL. if they are equally skilled they are absolutely equally skilled. skill can only come about via honing all of those things. so you are still absolutely 100% wrong it doesn't matter if you had a 1000 years of experience if we are idenitcally skilled than neither of us would have any edge on eachother because like i said,skill is the ability to efficiently use our training, skill, intuition, instincts and honed reaction time. it doesn't matter if you have more experience than person A if he is as skilled as you, than he is as skilled as you,. it means that he or she can use their intuition, instinct and reaction time just as effective as you. meaning you would have absolutely no advantage over person A

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    • You're too caught up in the semantics of the words, and not focusing on the idea I'm trying to convey. If it helps, by skill, I meant physical capabilities, plus a more clear, straightforward idea of intelligence (and less the vaguer and more indirect and metaphysical idea of instincts and intuition).

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    • LoverOfTragedy wrote:
      Maybe Eren's plan is to get hold of all 9 Titan Powers, and then use Annie's power to crystalize himself forever. That way no-one can use the Titan Powers anymore. 

      I don't think (and it doesn't see) like Eren wants to eat Armin.

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    • I laughed at the part where Eren says while beating up Armin, that he never fought him because it would never even be a fight, I wished Armin had said "Yeah, the same for Mikasa and you, right?", and I couldn't stop myself wondering about how Armin is actually superior to Eren in his Colossus form, with his superior size and heat steam. It would actually not even be a battle(just like what happened with Bertholt and Eren)

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    • A FANDOM user
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