FANDOM


  •   Loading editor
    • Eren literally lost his head as well as figuratively now lol.

        Loading editor
    • Tommy,Klaus&Kol2012+
      Tommy,Klaus&Kol2012+ removed this reply because:
      changed mind
      23:45, July 8, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Was a pretty solid and epic chapter until the end. Pros:

      -Much more action this chapter (and the past two) than pointless exposition about things we already know enough about.

      -SC FINALLY coming to Eren's aid. The fight between the Cart Titan and Mikasa+Armin was pretty cool too. It was also refreshing to see them nearly kick her ass.

      -Seeing Zeke visibly struggling with his resolve to scream once he learned Falco ingested the wine as well. Don't tell me he's any more evil or cruel than Marley.

      -Zeke FINALLY screamed. Glad Isayama didn't chicken out from that like some people thought he would, hopefully he won't pull a fast one with the Rumbling either.

      -The aerial panel of the town as the wine victims are turning into Titans was pretty badass.

      -Zeke ordering Falco to 'kill Reiner'. I don't know why, but I got serious Master Xehanort vibes (if anyone here knows enough about Kingdom Hearts) in the way both commanded someone under their control to take someone else's life. Makes me wonder if Zeke really is the 'final boss' of the series.

      -Colt's death. Now hold on a moment before people jump me, this isn't like Bertolt where I was just too happy they were finally dead. I didn't hate Colt, but he wasn't my favorirte either, but that's not why it's a pro. It's a pro for me because it was one of the few non-Eldian deaths that I felt bad about simply because Falco lost his only real family.

      -Porco's death. Again, not because I overly hated him (though he is pretty much a throwaway character meant purely as a copy-and-paste of Ymir), but because it means Falco isn't doomed to live as a mindless Titan. Plus, since Marcel is already dead, the two Galliard brothers are finally together.

      -Zeke's pained expression as Eren is shot. Maybe it's just because I am an older brother myself but I felt more for him this chapter than anybody else. Again, do NOT tell me Zeke is worse than Marley/Warriors ever have been.

      Cons:

      -When TF did Gabi learn how to ride a horse? After 109 where it was established she knew nothing about them? 

      -Falco's Titan design is...well, not horrible, but unsettling to say the least.

      -Gabi Sue once again [presumably] killing an MC. Not just any MC. THE main character. Now, I'm sure Ymir Fritz will somehow reassemble him like with Zeke, but the fact that her supposed "development" has been backtracked so dramatically this chapter, not to mention the fact that she is STILL being portrayed as some kind of 'hero' thanks to Isayama really irks me. I thought 105 and 111 made me hate Gabi to death, but after this, she really doesn't deserve to live to the end. I never thought I could hate Gabi more after what she did to Sasha and after turning Mikasa into a bad character, but congragulations Isayama, you took the kewpie doll on that one.

      Neutral:

      -Porco. Like I said earlier, I didn't have nearly the vitriol for him as I do most other Warriors, but he always was kind of a throwaway character. So while I wasn't jumping for joy that he finally died, I didn't feel the same about Porco's death that I did for Colt.



      5/10. Would have been a solid 8 or 9 had it not been for Gabi shooting Eren (evil bitch ruining the momentum of the rest of the chapter for me).

        Loading editor
    • ... wow. Talk about getting ' ahead' in life. (rimshot)

      Zeke, you are a vicious and coldhearted sonofabitch (but we already knew that.) Even with Colt's plea, he still went ahead with his plan. It's kind of poetic justice that Zeke got to see Eren killed (?) after turningthe affected into Titans. It was as if the universe said "You crossed the line with Falco, Zekey boy, so now you must suffer the consequences."

      I honestly don't know what direction the story could go from here. Although I hope it doesn't do a deus-ex and reveal an unknown Founder ability; having Eren go all Deadpool on us and regenerate his body from just a head would seem and look ridiculous.

        Loading editor
    • I though this was a pretty great chapter that was incredibly close to being perfect except for one major flaw.

      Pros:

      - The battle is surprisingly vicious and chaotic even when compared to the rest of the series with lots of casualties (4 Major characters died in one chapter this must be the most since Trost and there is possibly two even bigger than these characters). On top of this for once it feels like barely any strategy is at play but it's a good thing as it really sells the desperation of the characters and two nations trying to fight for their very existence. The brutality on display was perfectly captured with everybody involved taking a real beating and it feels unlike anything else in the series since Eren's fight with Annie in Stohess but ultimately the scene that came to mind when reading this chapter was End Of Evangelion's lesson in brutality 101. Overall this is the most tense this series has felt since Trost and I absolutely love it.

      - Visually this chapter is great with some truly incredible panels (Colt embracing Falco in a truly apocalyptic image that was also beautiful, Porco's sacrifice) really making this chapter shine. The gore on display was also very impressive making this a remarkably visceral reading experience and further adding to the almost apocalyptic feel in this chapter.

      - The twist regarding Falco was a welcome development as I thought Reiner would die not Porco and it fits Porco and the Jaw Titan (truly the titan of sacrifice) with Porco sacrificing everything for Reiner after hating him for so long and growing past being a prideful hothead (something that has been in development for a long time). It was also nice to see a shifter die from realistic wounds for once. Overall I felt this was just a few developments short of being a perfect moment as I would have liked to see Porco react to his defeat in Liberio and have a talk with Reiner to set this moment up even more, hopefully the anime expands on him a bit.

      - Isayama once again deserves special commendation for capturing the essence of chaos while not creating a muddled mess of a chapter (clean transitions, multiple fronts and characters handled well etc.).

      -  the thematic cohesion of this chapter was excellent with Isayama stitching together multiple characters and stories to create something that was deeply resonant in the emotional bonds brothers have and how far individuals will go to protect those they love. 

      - Finally I have to admit that Zeke's moment with Colt was fantastic really showing the best sides of this character in his intense love for Eren which humanizes him greatly but also how inhuman he is in his relentless pursuit of both protecting Eren and securing his twisted version of peace. Zeke clearly empathized with Colt due to their love for their respective siblings but didn't relent in putting him and Falco down and this moment captured this characters core in a way that hasn't been done before. As while Zeke is still ultimately not exactly unique in the world of anime (Persona 3, Eva, Gurren Lagann etc. all have similar characters) in this chapter Isayama successfully differentianted him away from other nihilist types.

      Cons:

      - This might come across as maddeningly repetive but the ending wasn't great with a straight up bait ending that really undermined what was going on and I wish that Isayama would have a bit more confidence in himself as he is quite talented and shouldn't rely on cheap schlocky tricks to keep the audience invested. It just feels like he wrote himself into a hole here as either Eren dies and the fanbase is angered (even though I prefer this as it is genuinely subversive) or Eren pulls out a cheap trick like memory manipulation (oh no Gabi shot a Marleyan!), his body is somehow a LMD from Marvel, his head grows spider legs like The Thing (which would be morbidly hilarious), or he regenerates his entire body but either way it greatly damages the stakes when characters can survive situations like this and I can only hope that Isayama sticks with it (fingers crossed for Zeke plays baseball and goes berserk). 

        Loading editor
    • The prevailing theory over on Reddit is that Eren is alive. He manipulated everyone's memories, and everyone now thinks he's dead.

      Everyone except Mikasa, who's immune to memory-alteration.

        Loading editor
    • @Penguinluver1431

      You just said that Colt was one of the "few non-Eldian" you didn't felt bad about, except Colt was a Eldian?

      @Freeman1378

      I do agree that ending was predictable or just bad storytelling. Although I hope maybe instead of a Spider Head or LMD (although I don't know what that means), however as subversive as it would be for even manga,  I don't want another Sasha outrage controversy on the Internet [shrugs]. I just hope it's just memory alternation since that has been established to be a thing.

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      @Penguinluver1431

      You just said that Colt was one of the "few non-Eldian" you didn't felt bad about, except Colt was a Eldian?

      @Freeman1378

      I do agree that ending was predictable or just bad storytelling. Although I hope maybe instead of a Spider Head or LMD (although I don't know what that means), however as subversive as it would be for even manga,  I don't want another Sasha outrage controversy on the Internet [shrugs]. I just hope it's just memory alternation since that has been established to be a thing.

      The spider head was a joke just because the first thing I thought of when Eren got his head blasted was The Thing one of my favourite movies and its memorable defibrillator scene (which has a decapitated head running amok) for some reason.  A LMD is a life model decoy in Marvel comics which some people think the WHT is capable of (far fetched but who knows). The situation is incredibly silly with anything seeming possible due to series prior weird nerve transfers (that moment is still very silly when it was played as straight as it was) and other goofy moments especially from recent chapters and thus I used these to highlight the farcical nature of these moments interspersed with nerve transfers, regeneration (Reiner can regenerate from only his head according to Gabi), or memory manipulation which are the likely candidates. On a more serious note memory manipulation is inherently more interesting than nerve transfers or regeneration because of the moral quagmire it represents (literally taking away someones free will like a man named Fritz) and being a new low for Eren (desperate times call for desperate measures). At the same time this is do or die time for this manga and I would prefer Isayama swing for the fences rather than tease it and constantly back off. Like the possibilities of Eren dying are exciting Zeke could abandon his empathetic death strategy and decide to nuke the world, Historia's baby could inherit 3 titans, Marley could gain a signifigant advantage and push Eldia to the brink. It doesn't have a high chance of happening (no anime or manga I've read has killed off a true main character outside of grand sacrifice at the very end + Eren has miles of development left) but the chaos it would represent would be truly exciting for the endgame. Just like Westworld has a bizarre affection for mystery boxes and obstructiveness, Isayama loves resurrections and fakeouts far too much with these popping up too frequently when this works a minimum of once (if done right) in most works and just like Westworld's creator Jonathan Nolan he is a good writer who shouldn't let his worst impulses take over as he has proven to be better than that with the series big twist being excellent in every way for example. So hopefully Yams cools it in the future chapters as this principle is at its worst since RTS.

        Loading editor
    • Lot of drama in this one. I don't expect Eren's decapitation to result in death because he's been our protagonist for most of these 100+ chapters and I don't see why this would change. We also don't know his side of the story yet. While that could possibly be told if someone eats his spine, I don't expect that's the way his story will resolve.

      Deaths were good. Unfortunately Porco's death got spoiled for me, but I like that he finally saw what Marcel tried to do for him. We also lost Pixis and Nile (and some tertiary characters I don't remember offhand) to Titan transformation, which is too bad, but narratively I'm glad the scream was used and that Zeke's fanaticism came out in not sparing Falco. I feel sorry for Colt. He wasn't much of a character except as defined by looking out for his family, but there was no reason to hate him either.

      Gabi suddenly riding a horse was incredibly random considering how she clearly didn't know jack about them in earlier chapters.

      I really like the parallels running through the chapter with three different pairs of brothers and how they wanted to look after each other.

        Loading editor
    • RuneLai wrote:
      Lot of drama in this one. I don't expect Eren's decapitation to result in death because he's been our protagonist for most of these 100+ chapters and I don't see why this would change. We also don't know his side of the story yet. While that could possibly be told if someone eats his spine, I don't expect that's the way his story will resolve.

      Deaths were good. Unfortunately Porco's death got spoiled for me, but I like that he finally saw what Marcel tried to do for him. We also lost Pixis and Nile (and some tertiary characters I don't remember offhand) to Titan transformation, which is too bad, but narratively I'm glad the scream was used and that Zeke's fanaticism came out in not sparing Falco. I feel sorry for Colt. He wasn't much of a character except as defined by looking out for his family, but there was no reason to hate him either.

      Gabi suddenly riding a horse was incredibly random considering how she clearly didn't know jack about them in earlier chapters.

      I really like the parallels running through the chapter with three different pairs of brothers and how they wanted to look after each other.

      Quick question realistically speaking is riding a horse that difficult even if it's a tame one?

        Loading editor
    • Horses take their cue from their riders and how well they trust them. Even a tame horse won't necessarily listen when saddled with an incompetent rider (probably because the incompetent rider isn't giving commands correctly). When I was first learning to ride I was put on the tamest, gentlest horse on the stable, not because she would listen to me, but because the handlers knew she would not misbehave and get me hurt. She responded to verbal commands from our trainers better than me who was actually on her back.

      If Gabi managed to saddle and bridle the horse as well (rather than grabbing one that was already hitched somewhere) that would be pretty crazy because horses don't like it when the saddle isn't fitted right and getting a bridle on a horse when you have never done it before is harder than it looks (the horse is not going to just open its mouth for you to put a metal bar in it).

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      @Penguinluver1431

      You just said that Colt was one of the "few non-Eldian" you didn't felt bad about, except Colt was a Eldian?

      Let me rephrase that then: one of the few characters outside the Walls, "Eldian" or Marleyan.

        Loading editor
    • This was a really good chapter. Porco and Colt’s deaths were well done. And I’m gonna miss Nile and Pixis. As for the ending, I bet Eren used the nervous system trick that Reiner used to survive in RTS. He looked right at Gabi when she picked up the rifle so he had time. One small thing to note, I’m surprised Mikasa didn’t one shot Pieck. The Cart Titan is good in an open field in terms of speed, but atop the Wall? Mikasa should have blitzed her.

      Also I did some research. The “Eren manipulated everyone’s memories” theory is likely bogus. Proponents of the theory try to bring up the fact that Eren’s clothes are a sign that something is off (since Eren’s pants got shredded by Porco) but Isayama apparently admitted that he rushed to finish this chapter for the monthly deadline. Two days before the deadline he had something like 20 pages still to complete. So all the errors are likely just mistakes on his part.

        Loading editor
    • Verdant Melancholy wrote:
      This was a really good chapter. Porco and Colt’s deaths were well done. And I’m gonna miss Nile and Pixis. As for the ending, I bet Eren used the nervous system trick that Reiner used to survive in RTS. He looked right at Gabi when she picked up the rifle so he had time. One small thing to note, I’m surprised Mikasa didn’t one shot Pieck. The Cart Titan is good in an open field in terms of speed, but atop the Wall? Mikasa should have blitzed her.

      Also I did some research. The “Eren manipulated everyone’s memories” theory is likely bogus. Proponents of the theory try to bring up the fact that Eren’s clothes are a sign that something is off (since Eren’s pants got shredded by Porco) but Isayama apparently admitted that he rushed to finish this chapter for the monthly deadline. Two days before the deadline he had something like 20 pages still to complete. So all the errors are likely just mistakes on his part.

      That would be more difficult than you think. You can't forget that Pieck is still carrying the cannon on her back, which happens to be positioned right above her back, head and nape, causing many normally plausible routes of attack to be either difficult or impossible. Plus, while they aren't on an open field, this chapter and the previous one have shown that Pieck is still very maneuvrable and fast, even on the Wall. All this combined makes it extremely difficult to take her down with the 3DMG.  Besides, while Mikasa is fast, I don't think she really excells in terms of speed either. Most of her one-shot kills have been when she struck by surprise or from the back, not due to blinding speed.

      I'm not really certain about the whole memory manipulation theory, but I don't think it's implausible that it might be true. There are too many inconsistencies. First, Gabi rides a horse when it was excplicitly mentioned several chapters ago that she didn't know a thing about them; Eren's pants, obviously; abut also his jacket, as he's been able to transform without damaging them since the 57th Expedition. Even if he was in a rush, drawing is a careful and time-consuming process, and I don't think Isayama would've made this many mistakes when he certainly had time to think. Personally, I think these all might be deliberate hints to "something being wrong".

        Loading editor
    • I'm really sad we didn't get to see Dot, Nile, and Keith's Pure Titans.  HUGE wasted potential):  Also pissed off that this chapter alone brought more plot holes than the entire manga had upto chapter 118.  RIP Eren, good thing Zeke will catch your head and activate the coordinate.  Makes sense that Eren dies here since there won't be a need for his character once he activates the rumbling.  I was sure that Gabi would be the Attack Titan but I guess it along with the other Titan powers Eren had possesed will end up in random Eldian infants.  (would be really cool for Eren and Falco to meet up in paths but I think Eren bit the dust here, Isayama has been pulling the fake death card for so long that it would actually be a plot twist if Eren was infact dead.)

      It was a decent chapter, with all the inconsistancies aside (he decided to rush this chapter for whatever stupid reason).  Pray we see the Military leader Titans soon! (I predict that we saw a glipse of Pixis's Titan in Episode 1)

        Loading editor
    • EthanPHX wrote:
      I'm really sad we didn't get to see Dot, Nile, and Keith's Pure Titans.  HUGE wasted potential):  Also pissed off that this chapter alone brought more plot holes than the entire manga had upto chapter 118.  RIP Eren, good thing Zeke will catch your head and activate the coordinate.  Makes sense that Eren dies here since there won't be a need for his character once he activates the rumbling.  I was sure that Gabi would be the Attack Titan but I guess it along with the other Titan powers Eren had possesed will end up in random Eldian infants.  (would be really cool for Eren and Falco to meet up in paths but I think Eren bit the dust here, Isayama has been pulling the fake death card for so long that it would actually be a plot twist if Eren was infact dead.)

      It was a decent chapter, with all the inconsistancies aside (he decided to rush this chapter for whatever stupid reason).  Pray we see the Military leader Titans soon! (I predict that we saw a glipse of Pixis's Titan in Episode 1)

      There's no way Eren is dieing now. Not by a long shot.

        Loading editor
    • EthanPHX wrote:
      I'm really sad we didn't get to see Dot, Nile, and Keith's Pure Titans.  HUGE wasted potential):  Also pissed off that this chapter alone brought more plot holes than the entire manga had upto chapter 118.  RIP Eren, good thing Zeke will catch your head and activate the coordinate.  Makes sense that Eren dies here since there won't be a need for his character once he activates the rumbling.  I was sure that Gabi would be the Attack Titan but I guess it along with the other Titan powers Eren had possesed will end up in random Eldian infants.  (would be really cool for Eren and Falco to meet up in paths but I think Eren bit the dust here, Isayama has been pulling the fake death card for so long that it would actually be a plot twist if Eren was infact dead.)

      It was a decent chapter, with all the inconsistancies aside (he decided to rush this chapter for whatever stupid reason).  Pray we see the Military leader Titans soon! (I predict that we saw a glipse of Pixis's Titan in Episode 1)

      When did we see a glimpse of Pixis's Titan? And did Keith drink the spinal fluid? As far as I know, he was in Shiganshina, he probably had no wine to drink. He was arrested for resisting the Yeagerists, but I don't think they gave him wine while he was in cell.

      1/10, we didn't see Pixis as a drunk Titan.

      Seriously, I really liked this chapter. What I would say about the pros are already mentionned by     @Penguinluver1431 , @RuneLai and @Freeman1378. Same for the cons, I have more or less the same opinion about it (tho, the Gaby riding a horse thing didn't really bother me, but it's true, and Falco's design as a Titan is very ugly, but he's not as ugly as the Gluttonous Titan to me)

      I would say that Eren ha transfered his consciousness in his spine, just like Reiner did during the Battle of Shiganshina 1.0. That would mean the body will transform, but he will need looooooooot of time to regenerate his head. That's why I'm afraid that it'll be the second option:

      I'm afraid of a Zeke-like regeneration thing in chapter 115 for Eren. I know that it's mostly a metaphorical place, that in fact, for some reasons, Zeke only had his super regeneration by "stealing" from the pure Titan's body (that's why the steam wasn't evaporating, but was... (I don't know the english word for it)) and wasn't really modeled from dirt by a little girl. But Zeke had his brain and most of his spine and some vital organs (heart, lungs, liver). Here, Eren only has his brain or his spine (which part would be healed by the "little girl"? Head or body?).

      And what I'm afraid of is that in one or two chapters, Eren and Zeke simply touch and activate the Great Rumbling of Shiganshina. That would just extend the battle for one or two more chapter. That would just be anticlimatic, making the ending of chapter 119 here only for chock value and wouldn't have any narrative purpose at all. I'm expecting that this scene really has an impact on the battle and not just ad a few more chapters to it. 

      Also, I have plenty of questions: Is Magath dead? He litterally took a thunder spear in the face. If he's alive, they better give us a damn strong explanation. Why does Eren still have his shoes and the lower parts of his pants? They were supposed to be eaten by Porco when he ate Eren's legs, right? And how did Pieck managed to transform and equip the canon again so quickly? Did she transform under the canon, so that automatically equip the canon during the transformation? Or did she re-used her previous transformation, that didn't evaporate entirelly?

        Loading editor
    • Something is oing on with Eren. Why do his eyes glow when he, Reiner, and Porco all touch resulting in porco getting memories of his brother? The pants thing is probably an oversight but it seems too obvious to be so. Let's not forget when Reiner moved his consciousness into his nervous system, Who's to say eren didn't do something like that?  I'm disapointed Pixiswasn't eaten by a sexy female titan. Here's to hoping he eats Annie and he actually becomes a sexy female titan! Now that would be funny!

        Loading editor
    • How did Pieck get back into her skeletal decaying titan that she'd just gotten out of in the previous chapter BTW? I didn't realize that was possible. She can't have generated a new one because the cannon was still on its back.

        Loading editor
    • Am137400 wrote: Something is oing on with Eren. Why do his eyes glow when he, Reiner, and Porco all touch resulting in porco getting memories of his brother? The pants thing is probably an oversight but it seems too obvious to be so. Let's not forget when Reiner moved his consciousness into his nervous system, Who's to say eren didn't do something like that?  I'm disapointed Pixiswasn't eaten by a sexy female titan. Here's to hoping he eats Annie and he actually becomes a sexy female titan! Now that would be funny!

      That's the only ending I'm waiting for. Any other ending will be disappointing.

        Loading editor
    • TKGriffiths wrote: How did Pieck get back into her skeletal decaying titan that she'd just gotten out of in the previous chapter BTW? I didn't realize that was possible. She can't have generated a new one because the cannon was still on its back.

      That's what I was asking myself. If she's able to do something like that, why not showing it?

        Loading editor
    • this chapter left me shook to the bones. i really lost it when Gabi pulled a Sasha on Eren. i get that

      Eren is seen as the final villain and all but i dont want him to die like THAT. That's just a dishonourable death for me. that is not how i pictured his death.

      but we gotta give isayama props for a job well done in this chap. i was on edge as i read and i totally geeked out at the last panel. That cliffhanger was the death of me.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      I though this was a pretty great chapter that was incredibly close to being perfect except for one major flaw.

      Pros:

      - The battle is surprisingly vicious and chaotic even when compared to the rest of the series with lots of casualties (4 Major characters died in one chapter this must be the most since Trost and there is possibly two even bigger than these characters). On top of this for once it feels like barely any strategy is at play but it's a good thing as it really sells the desperation of the characters and two nations trying to fight for their very existence. The brutality on display was perfectly captured with everybody involved taking a real beating and it feels unlike anything else in the series for some reason. Overall this is the most tense this series has felt since Trost and I absolutely love it.

      - Visually this chapter is great with some truly incredible panels (Colt embracing Falco in a truly apocalyptic image that was also beautiful, Porco's sacrifice) really making this chapter shine. The gore on display was also very impressive making this a remarkably visceral reading experience and further adding to the almost apocalyptic feel in this chapter.

      - The twist regarding Falco was a welcome development as I thought Reiner would die not Porco and it fits Porco and the Jaw Titan (truly the titan of sacrifice) with Porco sacrificing everything for Reiner after hating him for so long and growing past being a prideful hothead (something that has been in development for a long time). It was also nice to see a shifter die from realistic wounds for once. Overall I felt this was just a few developments short of being a perfect moment as I would have liked to see Porco react to his defeat in Liberio and have a talk with Reiner to set this moment up even more, hopefully the anime expands on him a bit.

      - Isayama once again deserves special commendation for capturing the essence of chaos while not creating a muddled mess of a chapter (clean transitions, multiple fronts and characters handled well etc.).

      -  the thematic cohesion of this chapter was excellent with Isayama stitching together multiple characters and stories to create something that was deeply resonant in the emotional bonds brothers have and how far individuals will go to protect those they love. 

      - Finally I have to admit that Zeke's moment with Colt was fantastic really showing the best sides of this character in his intense love for Eren which humanizes him greatly but also how inhuman he is in his relentless pursuit of both protecting Eren and securing his twisted version of peace. Zeke clearly emphasized with Colt due to their love for their respective siblings but didn't relent in putting him and Falco down and this moment captured this characters core in a way that hasn't been done before. As while Zeke is still ultimately not exactly unique in the world of anime (Persona 3, Eva, Gurren Lagann etc. all have similar characters) in this chapter Isayama successfully differentianted him away from other nihilist types.

      Cons:

      - This might come across as maddeningly repetive but the ending wasn't great with a straight up bait ending that really undermined what was going on and I wish that Isayama would have a bit more confidence in himself as he is quite talented and shouldn't rely on cheap schlocky tricks to keep the audience invested. It just feels like he wrote himself into a hole here as either Eren dies and the fanbase is angered (even though I prefer this as it is genuinely subversive) or Eren pulls out a cheap trick like memory manipulation (oh no Gabi shot a Marleyan!), his body is somehow a LMD from Marvel, his head grows spider legs like The Thing (which would be morbidly hilarious), or he regenerates his entire body but either way it greatly damages the stakes when characters can survive situations like this and I can only hope that Isayama sticks with it (fingers crossed for Zeke plays baseball and goes berserk). 

      I agree with most of these, but I'm hoping Zeke gets a rage mode like Eden did, that would be sick.

        Loading editor
    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      How did Pieck get back into her skeletal decaying titan that she'd just gotten out of in the previous chapter BTW? I didn't realize that was possible. She can't have generated a new one because the cannon was still on its back.

      Plot armor, ACTIVATE! 

      pieck: I activate my trap card: plot steal, it steals your plot armor and gives me a cannon card from my deck!

        Loading editor
    • So what's makes all of you so sure that Eren will rise? His pants?

      And why is nobody paying attention to the fact that even before the final arc started we didn't get any Eren's inner dialouge? Eren's inner dialouges is a huge part of the series. In fact, the only inner dialouge he had lately was when he fought the war-hammer titan. And even then it was just strategy... the last personal inner dialouge he had was all the way back to the ceremony when he got the medal from Historia...

      Don't you guys find it.. suspicious?

        Loading editor
    • I wasn't too thrilled about this chapter or the previous one.

      The invasion of Marley and Liberio felt closer to war. Here, less so. Nile was a little too understanding considering he's a soldier in the middle of an invasion. Colt in this chapter doesn't have the brainwashed resolve that some of the other Marleyans have, which is weird. It seems like none of the Marley believes in the cause. Magath doesn't want to destroy Eldia, he wants to end the cycle of violence. Colt doesn't care about Marley or Eldia, he says Zeke can let them kill each other. I would be nice to see some of these characters actually believe in what their nationalist cause, which would make the conflict that much more interesting.

      -And I still don't see Armin coming to that conclusion about Eren. Yeah, he figured out that Eren would be against Zeke's plan. But how can he truly rule out that Zeke is NOT controlling Eren? That the founding Titan has not found a way to corrupt him into let the Eldian race die out? It doens't seem realistic that the 104th would back up Eren after everything that has transpired.

      -Eren's titan gets another shot to the head and still keeps moving like it's nothing? At least have him shown to need some time to regenerate.

      -And Porco couldn't regenerate anymore? What the hell? Since when is that a thing? I know Piek took a while that one time, but it seemed too convenient here. It's like Porco had no choice anyways, whereas had they excluded that line, it woudl have gave his sacrifice some more significance. I think that scene could have been done much better.

      -Falco's titan just looked stupid. I know, most titans do look stupid and silly, but they look stupid in a creepy way. His looked too much like Pac-Man or a bird. 

      -I'm really getting tired of Reiner wanting to die. I get that he wants to die, but it's becoming a stupid meme within the series that he's always thinking, "Ahh, yes, sweet death..." and then he's denied. It's like some Wile E. Coyote or Charlie Brown and the football gag.

      -Yeah, Piek getting the harness back on so quick was way too convenient as well. At least show her trying to attack without it, or trying to get it back on.

      -Of course Gabi is the one to shoot Eren. I would have liked it had it been a random Marley soldier, rather than Gabi. Too much coincidences.

      -The anti-titan guns seem pretty advanced. They can pierce through titan skin and kill/destroy them, but they can be strapped across your back and fired with little recoil? Piek needed an entire cannon on her back to pierce the Advancing Titan and the Beast Titan. 

        Loading editor
    • YSL Slime wrote:
      I wasn't too thrilled about this chapter or the previous one.

      The invasion of Marley and Liberio felt closer to war. Here, less so. Nile was a little too understanding considering he's a soldier in the middle of an invasion. Colt in this chapter doesn't have the brainwashed resolve that some of the other Marleyans have, which is weird. It seems like none of the Marley believes in the cause. Magath doesn't want to destroy Eldia, he wants to end the cycle of violence. Colt doesn't care about Marley or Eldia, he says Zeke can let them kill each other. I would be nice to see some of these characters actually believe in what their nationalist cause, which would make the conflict that much more interesting.

      -And I still don't see Armin coming to that conclusion about Eren. Yeah, he figured out that Eren would be against Zeke's plan. But how can he truly rule out that Zeke is NOT controlling Eren? That the founding Titan has not found a way to corrupt him into let the Eldian race die out? It doens't seem realistic that the 104th would back up Eren after everything that has transpired.

      -Eren's titan gets another shot to the head and still keeps moving like it's nothing? At least have him shown to need some time to regenerate.

      -And Porco couldn't regenerate anymore? What the hell? Since when is that a thing? I know Piek took a while that one time, but it seemed too convenient here. It's like Porco had no choice anyways, whereas had they excluded that line, it woudl have gave his sacrifice some more significance. I think that scene could have been done much better.

      -Falco's titan just looked stupid. I know, most titans do look stupid and silly, but they look stupid in a creepy way. His looked too much like Pac-Man or a bird. 

      -I'm really getting tired of Reiner wanting to die. I get that he wants to die, but it's becoming a stupid meme within the series that he's always thinking, "Ahh, yes, sweet death..." and then he's denied. It's like some Wile E. Coyote or Charlie Brown and the football gag.

      -Yeah, Piek getting the harness back on so quick was way too convenient as well. At least show her trying to attack without it, or trying to get it back on.

      -Of course Gabi is the one to shoot Eren. I would have liked it had it been a random Marley soldier, rather than Gabi. Too much coincidences.

      -The anti-titan guns seem pretty advanced. They can pierce through titan skin and kill/destroy them, but they can be strapped across your back and fired with little recoil? Piek needed an entire cannon on her back to pierce the Advancing Titan and the Beast Titan. 

      - I don't think Porco's death was outside the realm of possibility for the Jaw as it is clearly the second weakest Titan that excels at fighting humans and artillery because of its speed rather than Titans due to its size and lack of strength. The Jaw's regenerative capabilities have always been shown to be weak with Ymir taking a day and a half to regenerate 2 limbs and Porco got knocked out in Liberio from being thumped into the ground twice by Eren. Here Porco got hit with boulders, hardened titan flesh (with the killing blow being directly to the nape), and warhammer spikes he fought valiantly but these are realistic wounds to die from as a owner of the 2nd weakest Titan (dude was missing half his head). I won't deny however that the stronger Titan powers are suspiciously reserved for main characters which does deserve criticism.

      - Honestly with Pieck Isayama probably just took a shortcut because of a tight schedule which is perfectly fine not everything needs to be shown directly to the audience (+ this can be fixed in the anime) and I think its obvious she did a second transformation from underneath (where she was last chapter) as it does fit the Cart as it has the greatest stamina out of all Titans (Eren's Attack Titan is probably the second best while the WHT is the worst here).

      - Armin understanding the plan isn't that far fetched as Yelena did tell him Zeke's plan and he cried because he realized it barely fit Eren as a person (Eren is definitely pro life not a nihilist). I think Connie also grilled Armin about helping Zeke/Eren last chapter and Armin pragmatically answered that they have no choice due to imminent invasion like attacking Zeke in this scenario doesn't benefit anyone but Marley so its out of pragmatism rather than blindly believing that Eren and Zeke have the best intentions (Pixis and crew also moved into position to maximize Zeke's effectiveness). I also doubt that the founder has any influence over Eren as he is not a royal (its been dormant for years) thus it would not affect him and apparently the holder of the founder in this loophole situation decides the outcome (according to Armin I believe).

      - Finally the artillery was slowing down Eren throughout the fight as he was struggling to reach Zeke and to be fair he does have three titans so it might be supercharging his regen abilities. 

        Loading editor
    • Having a younger brother I would do literally anything for, Colt and Falco's moment made me very emotional, to say the least. I'm happy and sad at the same time that Reiner is still alive. The poor guy just wants to die, but Isayama keeps trolling him, on the other hand he's my favorite character. Props to Gabi for landing that shot. Everyone seems to hate Gabi, but I like her. I don't think Eren is dead for real, but maybe he'll see Ymir in the afterlife? Over all an amazing chapter, 10/10.

        Loading editor
    • I honestly disagree with those who think this chapter regressed Gabi is some manner.

      She's come to realize the island Eldians aren't the devils she was taught to believe, but that doesn't mean Eren is any less guilty in her eyes after what he did. Heck, at this point, Eren's allegiance is really an unknown to pretty much everyone, including his old allies.

        Loading editor
    • Honestly, I just wanna know whats gonna happen with Annie. 

      If they pull a WH Titan and have her crystal crushed, or kill her off seconds after being freed, Ima be pissed. 

      Atleast have her do something if she is destined to die.

        Loading editor
    • NotAHamster wrote:
      Honestly, I just wanna know whats gonna happen with Annie. 

      If they pull a WH Titan and have her crystal crushed, or kill her off seconds after being freed, Ima be pissed. 

      Atleast have her do something if she is destined to die.

      Seriously. I want to see my girl finally come out of stasis already. And not just Annie, what about Levi and Hange? They've both been MIA as well

        Loading editor
    • Klaroliner7 wrote:
      So what's makes all of you so sure that Eren will rise? His pants?

      And why is nobody paying attention to the fact that even before the final arc started we didn't get any Eren's inner dialouge? Eren's inner dialouges is a huge part of the series. In fact, the only inner dialouge he had lately was when he fought the war-hammer titan. And even then it was just strategy... the last personal inner dialouge he had was all the way back to the ceremony when he got the medal from Historia...

      Don't you guys find it.. suspicious?

      Maybe his mom had some Ackerman in her!

      I'm just kidding, that would make no sense whatsoever.

        Loading editor
    • YSL Slime wrote:
      I wasn't too thrilled about this chapter or the previous one.

      The invasion of Marley and Liberio felt closer to war. Here, less so. Nile was a little too understanding considering he's a soldier in the middle of an invasion. Colt in this chapter doesn't have the brainwashed resolve that some of the other Marleyans have, which is weird. It seems like none of the Marley believes in the cause. Magath doesn't want to destroy Eldia, he wants to end the cycle of violence. Colt doesn't care about Marley or Eldia, he says Zeke can let them kill each other. I would be nice to see some of these characters actually believe in what their nationalist cause, which would make the conflict that much more interesting.

      -And I still don't see Armin coming to that conclusion about Eren. Yeah, he figured out that Eren would be against Zeke's plan. But how can he truly rule out that Zeke is NOT controlling Eren? That the founding Titan has not found a way to corrupt him into let the Eldian race die out? It doens't seem realistic that the 104th would back up Eren after everything that has transpired.

      -Eren's titan gets another shot to the head and still keeps moving like it's nothing? At least have him shown to need some time to regenerate.

      -And Porco couldn't regenerate anymore? What the hell? Since when is that a thing? I know Piek took a while that one time, but it seemed too convenient here. It's like Porco had no choice anyways, whereas had they excluded that line, it woudl have gave his sacrifice some more significance. I think that scene could have been done much better.

      -Falco's titan just looked stupid. I know, most titans do look stupid and silly, but they look stupid in a creepy way. His looked too much like Pac-Man or a bird. 

      -I'm really getting tired of Reiner wanting to die. I get that he wants to die, but it's becoming a stupid meme within the series that he's always thinking, "Ahh, yes, sweet death..." and then he's denied. It's like some Wile E. Coyote or Charlie Brown and the football gag.

      -Yeah, Piek getting the harness back on so quick was way too convenient as well. At least show her trying to attack without it, or trying to get it back on.

      -Of course Gabi is the one to shoot Eren. I would have liked it had it been a random Marley soldier, rather than Gabi. Too much coincidences.

      -The anti-titan guns seem pretty advanced. They can pierce through titan skin and kill/destroy them, but they can be strapped across your back and fired with little recoil? Piek needed an entire cannon on her back to pierce the Advancing Titan and the Beast Titan. 

      The anti-titan guns are PTRD-41's from WW2 so they're pretty fitting for the setting. Recoil isn't that bad on them but they're damn heavy so how Gabi is easily able to lift and aim one so accurately is a bit farfetch'd.....but this is a series about people turning into giant naked monsters  via PATHS so realism isn't exactly a #1 priority..

        Loading editor
    • well we just saw how big of a scumbag Gabi is. First she shot Sasha, got Falco in trouble, then shot Eren. what a douche.

        Loading editor
    • Annajade016 wrote:
      well we just saw how big of a scumbag Gabi is. First she shot Sasha, got Falco in trouble, then shot Eren. what a douche.

      and here i was sympathising with her believing that she's a pawn of Marley. Well forget that

        Loading editor
    • Annajade016 wrote:
      well we just saw how big of a scumbag Gabi is. First she shot Sasha, got Falco in trouble, then shot Eren. what a douche.

      Indeed, 100% on point.

      How DARE she teach Zeke what a personal loss feels like, after his and Eren's grand plans systematically stripped her of the people she cared about?! How dare she, taking Pieck's advice to heart and fighting on the side of those who she trusted all this time?!

      THE AUDACITY IS UNTHINKABLE!

        Loading editor
    • On the bright side at least this time Gabi shooting someone didn’t involve using the fact that she’s a little girl to her advantage.

        Loading editor
    • Annajade016 wrote: well we just saw how big of a scumbag Gabi is. First she shot Sasha, got Falco in trouble, then shot Eren. what a douche.

      Don't forget how she abused the generosity of the Braus family, turned Mikasa into a bad character, and from the beginning is literally just a carbon-copy of Eren. Gabi has single-handedly ruining the series. She never should have existed.

        Loading editor
    • Annajade016 wrote: well we just saw how big of a scumbag Gabi is. First she shot Sasha, got Falco in trouble, then shot Eren. what a douche.

      Uhm, considering everything Eren did to her, inlcuding being directly responsible for the deaths of two of her friends and indirectly for Colt's and Proco's deaths, not to mention as far as she knew wanting to begin the Rumbling to kill everyone, do you really expect her not to try and stop him when she has the chance? How is she any different from Eren in his past when he so badly wanted to kill Reiner and Berthold?

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Annajade016 wrote: well we just saw how big of a scumbag Gabi is. First she shot Sasha, got Falco in trouble, then shot Eren. what a douche.

      Don't forget how she abused the generosity of the Braus family, turned Mikasa into a bad character, and from the beginning is literally just a carbon-copy of Eren. Gabi has single-handedly ruining the series. She never should have existed.

      As polarizing as Gabi is, why do people think she ruins the series? My views on her aside, has anybody stopped to consider that maybe she is intended to be disliked? That is not a bad character trope per se, you know. It's only when a character is unintentionally hated that there is a genuine problem.

      Also, how in the actuall hell did Gabi ruin Mikasa? Are you just trying to find excuses to shit on the series? The two hardly ever interacted!

      And finally, I really don't get you. You're complaining that Eren got character growth and doesn't want to kill 'em all with his hatred, but at the same time you're complaining that Gabi has less character growth and does want to kill 'em all with her hatred. What do you even want anymore?

        Loading editor
    • i agree. gabi was introduced into the series for a reason just like Zeke, Yelena, Pieck, Porco and all these other homies. She's supposed to represent how Marley uses children as pawns and brainwashes them with their ideology to hate the Paradis Eldians and put an end to their existence. We saw that being the case with Zeke as a child and Reiner throughout, now we get to see that through Gabi

        Loading editor
    • Honestly I don't think Isayama intends for Gabi to be a hated character as she is most definitely not a heel (Ex. Commodus from Gladiator, Ramsay Bolton) or even has that many truly hateable traits with every action she takes and word she says being understandable as a result of the society she grew up in rather than being someone truly horrible (Ex. Jake LaMotta the protagonist of Raging Bull is a drinker, rageaholic, and deeply insecure and is clearly not meant to be liked nor excused for his actions). Gabi's purpose in the plot is to be Eren's shadow (her design is a genderbent Eren, their dialogue is eerily similar, they both have inciting incidents for revenge, and hate the "Other") and answer the question if people are naturally doomed to repeat attrocities from the past or can to quote GOT "break the wheel". Her actions wil heavily dictate the flow of the story from here on as a result of this (the "Other" has been humanized for her but they are also still a threat to her people especially Eren so she could go either way). I think Isayama means for her and Falco to be the next generation and they are meant to contrasted against our current generation and the way they acted (same with Xaver + Grisha and Kruger before them and probably more I haven't named). I think ultimately though this work will have a optimistic ending and she'll make it to the end (the baby in the teased final panel could be her and Falco's rather than Erens) growing up as a person and helping to prove that people can change rather than being doomed to vicious cycles of war.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Honestly I don't think Isayama intends for Gabi to be a hated character as she is most definitely not a heel (Ex. Commodus from Gladiator, Ramsay Bolton) or even has that many truly hateable traits with every action she takes and word she says being justifiable as a result of the society she grew up in rather than being someone truly horrible (Ex. Jake LaMotta from Raging Bull is a drinker, rageaholic, and deeply insecure and is clearly not meant to be liked nor excused for his actions). Gabi's purpose in the plot is to be Eren's shadow (her design is a genderbent Eren, their dialogue is eerily similar, they both have inciting incidents for revenge, and hate the "Other") and answer the question if people are naturally doomed to repeat attrocities from the past or can to quote GOT "break the wheel". Her actions wil heavily dictate the flow of the story from here on as a result of this (the "Other" has been humanized for her but they are also still a threat to her people especially Eren so she could go either way). I think Isayama means for her and Falco to be the next generation and they are meant to contrasted against our current generation and the way they acted (same with Xaver + Grisha and Kruger before them and probably more I haven't named). I think ultimately though this work will have a optimistic ending and she'll make it to the end (the baby in the teased final panel could be her and Falco's rather than Erens) growing up as a person and helping to prove that people can change rather than being doomed to vicious cycles of war.

      Very well said. That's a interesting speculation that the child may be Falco & Gabi.

        Loading editor
    • Marco1995mega wrote:
      Verdant Melancholy wrote:
      This was a really good chapter. Porco and Colt’s deaths were well done. And I’m gonna miss Nile and Pixis. As for the ending, I bet Eren used the nervous system trick that Reiner used to survive in RTS. He looked right at Gabi when she picked up the rifle so he had time. One small thing to note, I’m surprised Mikasa didn’t one shot Pieck. The Cart Titan is good in an open field in terms of speed, but atop the Wall? Mikasa should have blitzed her.

      Also I did some research. The “Eren manipulated everyone’s memories” theory is likely bogus. Proponents of the theory try to bring up the fact that Eren’s clothes are a sign that something is off (since Eren’s pants got shredded by Porco) but Isayama apparently admitted that he rushed to finish this chapter for the monthly deadline. Two days before the deadline he had something like 20 pages still to complete. So all the errors are likely just mistakes on his part.

      That would be more difficult than you think. You can't forget that Pieck is still carrying the cannon on her back, which happens to be positioned right above her back, head and nape, causing many normally plausible routes of attack to be either difficult or impossible. Plus, while they aren't on an open field, this chapter and the previous one have shown that Pieck is still very maneuvrable and fast, even on the Wall. All this combined makes it extremely difficult to take her down with the 3DMG.  Besides, while Mikasa is fast, I don't think she really excells in terms of speed either. Most of her one-shot kills have been when she struck by surprise or from the back, not due to blinding speed.

      I'm not really certain about the whole memory manipulation theory, but I don't think it's implausible that it might be true. There are too many inconsistencies. First, Gabi rides a horse when it was excplicitly mentioned several chapters ago that she didn't know a thing about them; Eren's pants, obviously; abut also his jacket, as he's been able to transform without damaging them since the 57th Expedition. Even if he was in a rush, drawing is a careful and time-consuming process, and I don't think Isayama would've made this many mistakes when he certainly had time to think. Personally, I think these all might be deliberate hints to "something being wrong".

      Is Isayama really rushing the series? 

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Honestly I don't think Isayama intends for Gabi to be a hated character as she is most definitely not a heel (Ex. Commodus from Gladiator, Ramsay Bolton) or even has that many truly hateable traits with every action she takes and word she says being justifiable as a result of the society she grew up in rather than being someone truly horrible (Ex. Jake LaMotta from Raging Bull is a drinker, rageaholic, and deeply insecure and is clearly not meant to be liked nor excused for his actions). Gabi's purpose in the plot is to be Eren's shadow (her design is a genderbent Eren, their dialogue is eerily similar, they both have inciting incidents for revenge, and hate the "Other") and answer the question if people are naturally doomed to repeat attrocities from the past or can to quote GOT "break the wheel". Her actions wil heavily dictate the flow of the story from here on as a result of this (the "Other" has been humanized for her but they are also still a threat to her people especially Eren so she could go either way). I think Isayama means for her and Falco to be the next generation and they are meant to contrasted against our current generation and the way they acted (same with Xaver + Grisha and Kruger before them and probably more I haven't named). I think ultimately though this work will have a optimistic ending and she'll make it to the end (the baby in the teased final panel could be her and Falco's rather than Erens) growing up as a person and helping to prove that people can change rather than being doomed to vicious cycles of war.
      Very well said. That's a interesting speculation that the child may be Falco & Gabi.

      It's hard to tell who the parents are because of the panel having no darker colours to differentiate the two individuals so they could both be blonde or dark haired. Gabi and Falco just clicked recently as a possible pairing of parents because it would be a powerful way to conclude the story (the conflict is resolved and the next generation grows up in a brighter world) and also brings Gabi's story full circle. The other options that I've thought about is the perennial favourite of Eren + Historia as Historia is currently with child and it would explain a lot about Eren's behaviour. I'm usually not too invested in shipping or waifu wars but I've always liked this pairing and I would be cool with it. Another one is Eren and Mikasa but Eren has always acted very familial towards her (He loves her but does he LOVE her) and so far it seems one sided but I wouldn't mind this option (I think I read somewhere that Mikasa actually wants to be a housewife with Eren). The final and extremely unlikely option is some bittersweet ending where Grisha gets a memory from his son's future death (grand sacrifice most likely) and is telling him hes finally free and got his job done. This last option would be a unique twist for sure and could work if written well. Overall though I am leaning heavily towards a optimistic ending as I don't believe that AOT will have a nihilistic ending (Ex. The Thing, End Of Evangelion, Shutter Island) as despite the series harsh material its never gone into straight up nihilism and most mangaka seem to prefer happy over the sorry you failed kind of ending.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Honestly I don't think Isayama intends for Gabi to be a hated character as she is most definitely not a heel (Ex. Commodus from Gladiator, Ramsay Bolton) or even has that many truly hateable traits with every action she takes and word she says being justifiable as a result of the society she grew up in rather than being someone truly horrible (Ex. Jake LaMotta from Raging Bull is a drinker, rageaholic, and deeply insecure and is clearly not meant to be liked nor excused for his actions). Gabi's purpose in the plot is to be Eren's shadow (her design is a genderbent Eren, their dialogue is eerily similar, they both have inciting incidents for revenge, and hate the "Other") and answer the question if people are naturally doomed to repeat attrocities from the past or can to quote GOT "break the wheel". Her actions wil heavily dictate the flow of the story from here on as a result of this (the "Other" has been humanized for her but they are also still a threat to her people especially Eren so she could go either way). I think Isayama means for her and Falco to be the next generation and they are meant to contrasted against our current generation and the way they acted (same with Xaver + Grisha and Kruger before them and probably more I haven't named). I think ultimately though this work will have a optimistic ending and she'll make it to the end (the baby in the teased final panel could be her and Falco's rather than Erens) growing up as a person and helping to prove that people can change rather than being doomed to vicious cycles of war.
      Very well said. That's a interesting speculation that the child may be Falco & Gabi.
      It's hard to tell who the parents are because of the panel having no darker colours to differentiate the two individuals so they could both be blonde or dark haired. Gabi and Falco just clicked recently as a possible pairing of parents because it would be a powerful way to conclude the story (the conflict is resolved and the next generation grows up in a brighter world) and also brings Gabi's story full circle. The other options that I've thought about is the perennial favourite of Eren + Historia as Historia is currently with child and it would explain a lot about Eren's behaviour. I'm usually not too invested in shipping or waifu wars I've always liked this pairing and I would be cool with it. Another one is Eren and Mikasa but Eren has always acted very familial towards her (He loves her but does he LOVE her) and so far it seems one sided but I wouldn't mind this option (I think I read somewhere that Mikasa actually wants to be a housewife with Eren). The final and extremely unlikely option is some bittersweet ending where Grisha gets a memory from his son's future death (grand sacrifice most likely) and is telling him hes finally free and got his job done. This last option would be a unique twist for sure and could work if written well. Overall though I am leaning heavily towards a optimistic ending as I don't believe that AOT will have a nihilistic ending (Ex. The Thing, End Of Evangelion, Shutter Island) as despite the series harsh material its never gone into straight up nihilism and most mangaka seem to prefer happy over the sorry you failed kind of ending.

      That last one unlikely as it is, but it doesn't too farfetched. So wait your favorite pairing is Eren & Historia? 

      I have watched The Thing and heard of End of Evangelion all have a well not so great ending to put it, mildly, although how nihilistic is Shutter Island and it's ending or how it ended (heard of the movie but never watched it. I felt horror vibes from it and I am not great with horror movies, most of the time)?

        Loading editor
    • I think a fair bit of the problem with Gabi’s character is the fact that many people just aren’t emotionally invested in her story. It also doesn’t help that while Isayama is trying to develop her, he’s also still having the main characters (who we the readers have followed for years) trying to avoid genocide at the hands of Gabi’s country and direct comrades (the Warriors+Magath).

        Loading editor
    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Honestly I don't think Isayama intends for Gabi to be a hated character as she is most definitely not a heel (Ex. Commodus from Gladiator, Ramsay Bolton) or even has that many truly hateable traits with every action she takes and word she says being justifiable as a result of the society she grew up in rather than being someone truly horrible (Ex. Jake LaMotta from Raging Bull is a drinker, rageaholic, and deeply insecure and is clearly not meant to be liked nor excused for his actions). Gabi's purpose in the plot is to be Eren's shadow (her design is a genderbent Eren, their dialogue is eerily similar, they both have inciting incidents for revenge, and hate the "Other") and answer the question if people are naturally doomed to repeat attrocities from the past or can to quote GOT "break the wheel". Her actions wil heavily dictate the flow of the story from here on as a result of this (the "Other" has been humanized for her but they are also still a threat to her people especially Eren so she could go either way). I think Isayama means for her and Falco to be the next generation and they are meant to contrasted against our current generation and the way they acted (same with Xaver + Grisha and Kruger before them and probably more I haven't named). I think ultimately though this work will have a optimistic ending and she'll make it to the end (the baby in the teased final panel could be her and Falco's rather than Erens) growing up as a person and helping to prove that people can change rather than being doomed to vicious cycles of war.
      Very well said. That's a interesting speculation that the child may be Falco & Gabi.
      It's hard to tell who the parents are because of the panel having no darker colours to differentiate the two individuals so they could both be blonde or dark haired. Gabi and Falco just clicked recently as a possible pairing of parents because it would be a powerful way to conclude the story (the conflict is resolved and the next generation grows up in a brighter world) and also brings Gabi's story full circle. The other options that I've thought about is the perennial favourite of Eren + Historia as Historia is currently with child and it would explain a lot about Eren's behaviour. I'm usually not too invested in shipping or waifu wars I've always liked this pairing and I would be cool with it. Another one is Eren and Mikasa but Eren has always acted very familial towards her (He loves her but does he LOVE her) and so far it seems one sided but I wouldn't mind this option (I think I read somewhere that Mikasa actually wants to be a housewife with Eren). The final and extremely unlikely option is some bittersweet ending where Grisha gets a memory from his son's future death (grand sacrifice most likely) and is telling him hes finally free and got his job done. This last option would be a unique twist for sure and could work if written well. Overall though I am leaning heavily towards a optimistic ending as I don't believe that AOT will have a nihilistic ending (Ex. The Thing, End Of Evangelion, Shutter Island) as despite the series harsh material its never gone into straight up nihilism and most mangaka seem to prefer happy over the sorry you failed kind of ending.
      That last one unlikely as it is, but it doesn't too farfetched. So wait your favorite pairing is Eren & Historia? 

      I have watched The Thing and heard of End of Evangelion all have a well not so great ending to put it, mildly, although how nihilistic is Shutter Island and it's ending or how it ended (heard of the movie but never watched it. I felt horror vibes from it and I am not great with horror movies, most of the time)?

      It's possibly the worst of the bunch, Shutter Island is an incredible bummer of a movie but it is an absolutely excellent movie worth watching (emotionally torturous though) and I don't want to spoil too much about it as it is one of those shows that is better to go in blind if possible. No way in hell that Attack On Titan ends like this movie though as Shutter Island is a personal movie whereas AOT is a sociological series sharing far more in common with something like Fallout, Game Of Thrones, or Fullmetal Alchemist (shockingly similar series in many ways, heck a buff male Gabi is in this series) than a show about a single guy. AOT is also more inherently optimistic compared to most of those other series (except for FMA) and Shutter Island is more pessimistic than they are (I guess you'll understand when you see it).

        Loading editor
    • Also @Tdfern it is the most common pairing for the child I see online like I don't spend as much time on AOT Reddit as I used too but this seems to be the most popular pairing there. I would personally put the odds at 50% H + E, 40% F + G, and 10% M + E (F + G is gaining lots of steam though). From a personal point of view I would like the Falco/Gabi ending the most as it fits the themes perfectly and Falco kinda deserves to get the girl after the shit he has been through. Out of romantic pairings yea I've always been interested in Historia/Eren as they have a lot of genuine chemistry (on the page & screen), I like the parallels between father & son, and it could be a interesting twist to explain why Eren is going the extra mile. It just really works for me personally if this is how Isayama wants to add a little romance to a relatively sexless series like thank god for no fanservice in a serious series but romantic love has always curiously been missing from this series (because of timeskips, lack of info, or unrequited loves). Ultimately though its not something I'm going to fight with someone over and whatever direction Isayama goes I can respect it (heck even Farmer man + Historia at this rate is fine by me).

        Loading editor
    • After re-reading the chapter (with translations this time), and looking at the final panel leak once more, my predictions are:

      1. Gabi eats eren and Erens will would carry on to gabi, and the final panel is Gabi's last moments while touching a royal blood, causing one of Erens memories to pop up. (Reason behind this is because the haircut and body shape looks close to what geishas body shape is.)

      2: Eren lives, gives birth to a son, causes the twisted justice Zeke had, (meaning his son and his wife, assuming its mikasa, would be the only ones alive to record these documents) and therefore Zeke and Eren win.

      Or 3. Its Armin, because of the stringy-ish hair, grown up more and he's up to a marleyan person saying this because of the plan working, and it would explain a lot of reasons why Armin has been saved over and over again.

        Loading editor
    • Oh another thing I forgot to mention, I was totally surprised when Armin didn't transform into his titan once he was away from the rest of his allies (Mikasa could stay a safe distance) and simply crush the cart titan. His titan is so overpowered it's ridiculous, he could have just picked Reiner up and tossed him over the wall as well.

      Seems like a plot hole. They didn't even mention it as a possiblity, have they forgotten that Armin is the colossus titan?

        Loading editor
    • Other titans and stuff, but it looks like theres a possibility it might.

        Loading editor
    • To break it down: if he were to transform, Zeke would get caught in, same with eren, and all of the other titans Zeke currently controls, now that gives them a disadvantage if he were to do this.

      Eren is also fighting something and isn't built to take an explosion like reiner was, so its really just a lot of reasons, actually. But say he did get far enough, how would that affect everything else? People are in there, important ones at that, so I don't think that he'll be going colossal right now.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Gabi's purpose in the plot is to be Eren's shadow (her design is a genderbent Eren, their dialogue is eerily similar, they both have inciting incidents for revenge, and hate the "Other") and answer the question if people are naturally doomed to repeat attrocities from the past or can to quote GOT "break the wheel".

      Depending on how much truth there is to the assumption that possession of a Titan affects person's behavior and mindset (and now even I think there might be, with the Jaws pattern in that chapter), it could be pretty much the opposite.

      Gabi can basically be THE Eren, if he was free (pun not intended) of the influence of the Attack Titan. The both kinda go through similar arc, with them reaching the points where they realize there's no 'enemies on the other side of the ocean', but whether Gabi looks like she could eventually let go of it, Eren is simply unable to stop.

        Loading editor
    • Teufel.dl wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Gabi's purpose in the plot is to be Eren's shadow (her design is a genderbent Eren, their dialogue is eerily similar, they both have inciting incidents for revenge, and hate the "Other") and answer the question if people are naturally doomed to repeat attrocities from the past or can to quote GOT "break the wheel".
      Depending on how much truth there is to the assumption that possession of a Titan affects person's behavior and mindset (and now even I think there might be, with the Jaws pattern in that chapter), it could be pretty much the opposite.

      Gabi can basically be THE Eren, if he was free (pun not intended) of the influence of the Attack Titan. The both kinda go through similar arc, with them reaching the points where they realize there's no 'enemies on the other side of the ocean', but whether Gabi looks like she could eventually let go of it, Eren is simply unable to stop.

      I don't think that's entirely corect. Your enemies don't necessarily need to be devils or one-dimensional evil people (in fact, one of the themes of AoT is that enemies are simply people too). Gabi and Eren both came to this realization, and BOTH have let go of revenge. However, Paradis and Marley ARE still enemies, and both Eren and Gabi are still fighting and killing for the sake of their own country and the people they care about. The difference is that revenge doesn't play a part in their reasoning anymore.

        Loading editor
    • Timjer wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Annajade016 wrote: well we just saw how big of a scumbag Gabi is. First she shot Sasha, got Falco in trouble, then shot Eren. what a douche.

      Don't forget how she abused the generosity of the Braus family, turned Mikasa into a bad character, and from the beginning is literally just a carbon-copy of Eren. Gabi has single-handedly ruining the series. She never should have existed.

      As polarizing as Gabi is, why do people think she ruins the series? My views on her aside, has anybody stopped to consider that maybe she is intended to be disliked? That is not a bad character trope per se, you know. It's only when a character is unintentionally hated that there is a genuine problem.

      Also, how in the actuall hell did Gabi ruin Mikasa? Are you just trying to find excuses to shit on the series? The two hardly ever interacted!

      And finally, I really don't get you. You're complaining that Eren got character growth and doesn't want to kill 'em all with his hatred, but at the same time you're complaining that Gabi has less character growth and does want to kill 'em all with her hatred. What do you even want anymore?

      1. Being a carbon copy genderbend of the MC, but "better and cooler" according to Isayama, is doomed to ruin a series simply for being the Creator's Pet.

      2. Mikasa spared Gabi. The brat who killed Sasha, Mikasa's close friend who was almost like a sister. For Mikasa to just forget/abandon how she felt about Sasha just to save her killer made me lose all respect for Mikasa. All the love I had for her instantly vanished, alongside Mr. Braus for not avenging his only biological daughter.

      3. My complaint is that after ten or so years of having the Survey Corps as the protagonists, now suddenly Isayama wants us to feel bad for the Marleyans and Warriors, specifically RBA, and suddenly start empathizing with them when they have done nothing to earn it? All while painting the SC and original protagonists as "the bad guys"? People like to talk about how there is no "good" or "evil" in AoT, but sooner or later, like any series with moral ambiguity, people MUST choose a side. And I choose Eldia/Paradis, because RBA are already shitty human beings as it is, so I have no desire to want their side to survive this war.

        Loading editor
    • Here's a question.

      We already know that The Rumbling will be a disadvantage for Marley with the wall titans coming to life and all BUUUUUUT will it be win for the Eldians, especially with Eren controlling them with Zeke's help. 

      From what we've managed to gather, the rumbling was a measure that Karl Fritz created if ever Marley decided to attack and start a war with Paradis with the hope for there to be peace (Welp, so much for that). So if the rumbling does come to pass (Which i'm sure will happen coz Isayama cant just bring it up and not explore it further) will Paradis gain the upper hand, with Zeke wanting to implement the Euthanasia plan, unless Eren pulls a 180 on him, betrays him and goes gangsta on his ass with his founding titan abilities?

        Loading editor
    • Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Here's a question.

      We already know that The Rumbling will be a disadvantage for Marley with the wall titans coming to life and all BUUUUUUT will it be win for the Eldians, especially with Eren controlling them with Zeke's help. 

      From what we've managed to gather, the rumbling was a measure that Karl Fritz created if ever Marley decided to attack and start a war with Paradis with the hope for there to be peace (Welp, so much for that). So if the rumbling does come to pass (Which i'm sure will happen coz Isayama cant just bring it up and not explore it further) will Paradis gain the upper hand, with Zeke wanting to implement the Euthanasia plan, unless Eren pulls a 180 on him, betrays him and goes gangsta on his ass with his founding titan abilities?

      From what I remember Karl intended the rumbling to be a empty threat that would scare the world into leaving Paradis alone for awhile leaving its inhabitants to enjoy paradise in his mind. He knew Marley would come one day to enact revenge and he was just going to let his subjects die in the ensuing invasion for the sins he felt they were guilty of (very similar to Zeke). I honestly feel if Zeke wasn't such a unreliable figure and the Yeagerists didn't generate so much chaos (not to mention an embararssing showing in this fight) Paradis would have already won after all this fight proves that Marley isn't particularly that impressive as Reiner is aiming to be king of the jobbers (I love him as a character but he has never beaten another character without help), Porco is dead, Pieck is screwed against Mikasa/Armin, and there general appears to be there only competent soldier (also possibly dead or horribly injured) and with the current situation I think they really need Annie's help to turn things around. The world is basically going to converge in one location making there forces easy to destroy with the Wall Titans (a nice backbreaking trap) and giving Paradis more time to develop stronger weapons. The 3DMG is already ace so I think if they develop an air force and some anti air guns they could mount a good defense in the future heck the Vietcong did that in real life with no air superiority and a smaller army against a super power (nasty traps, understanding of the terrain, and guerilla warfare made the difference there). The only thing Paradis has to worry about is sheer numbers and high flying targets (the blimps were close to the ground here) but the Wall titans have no equal in a world without the atomic bomb so as long as Eren is fine Eldia is fine. Zeke is definitely the endgame boss though and I believe he will be the final opponent if Eren is dead or alive as Eren will never go ahead with his plan and he would probably take a far more hostile form of euthanization if the one person he truly cares for is dead (cue a rumbling with far more apocalyptic notions than even Eren at his most vicious).

        Loading editor
    • Verdant Melancholy wrote: I think a fair bit of the problem with Gabi’s character is the fact that many people just aren’t emotionally invested in her story. It also doesn’t help that while Isayama is trying to develop her, he’s also still having the main characters (who we the readers have followed for years) trying to avoid genocide at the hands of Gabi’s country and direct comrades (the Warriors+Magath).

      I guess its the same issue with Kenny Ackerman as no one is emotionally into his character as he only appeared in one whole arc.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Here's a question.

      We already know that The Rumbling will be a disadvantage for Marley with the wall titans coming to life and all BUUUUUUT will it be win for the Eldians, especially with Eren controlling them with Zeke's help. 

      From what we've managed to gather, the rumbling was a measure that Karl Fritz created if ever Marley decided to attack and start a war with Paradis with the hope for there to be peace (Welp, so much for that). So if the rumbling does come to pass (Which i'm sure will happen coz Isayama cant just bring it up and not explore it further) will Paradis gain the upper hand, with Zeke wanting to implement the Euthanasia plan, unless Eren pulls a 180 on him, betrays him and goes gangsta on his ass with his founding titan abilities?

      From what I remember Karl intended the rumbling to be a empty threat that would scare the world into leaving Paradis alone for awhile leaving its inhabitants to enjoy paradise in his mind. He knew Marley would come one day to enact revenge and he was just going to let his subjects die in the ensuing invasion for the sins he felt they were guilty of (very similar to Zeke). I honestly feel if Zeke wasn't such a unreliable figure and the Yeagerists didn't generate so much chaos (not to mention an embararssing showing in this fight) Paradis would have already won after all this fight proves that Marley isn't particularly that impressive as Reiner is aiming to be king of the jobbers (I love him as a character but he has never beaten another character without help), Porco is dead, Pieck is screwed against Mikasa/Armin, and there general appears to be there only competent soldier (also possibly dead or horribly injured) and with the current situation I think they really need Annie's help to turn things around. The world is basically going to converge in one location making there forces easy to destroy with the Wall Titans (a nice backbreaking trap) and giving Paradis more time to develop stronger weapons. The 3DMG is already ace so I think if they develop an air force and some anti air guns they could mount a good defense in the future heck the Vietcong did that in real life with no air superiority and a smaller army against a super power (nasty traps, understanding of the terrain, and guerilla warfare made the difference there). The only thing Paradis has to worry about is sheer numbers and high flying targets (the blimps were close to the ground here) but the Wall titans have no equal in a world without the atomic bomb so as long as Eren is fine Eldia is fine. Zeke is definitely the endgame boss though and I believe he will be the final opponent if Eren is dead or alive as Eren will never go ahead with his plan and he would probably take a far more hostile form of euthanization if the one person he truly cares for is dead (cue a rumbling with far more apocalyptic notions than even Eren at his most vicious).

      i see. so how do you think our boi Zeke is going to pull it off in the event of Eren being dead or might potentially go against his plan

        Loading editor
    • Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Here's a question.

      We already know that The Rumbling will be a disadvantage for Marley with the wall titans coming to life and all BUUUUUUT will it be win for the Eldians, especially with Eren controlling them with Zeke's help. 

      From what we've managed to gather, the rumbling was a measure that Karl Fritz created if ever Marley decided to attack and start a war with Paradis with the hope for there to be peace (Welp, so much for that). So if the rumbling does come to pass (Which i'm sure will happen coz Isayama cant just bring it up and not explore it further) will Paradis gain the upper hand, with Zeke wanting to implement the Euthanasia plan, unless Eren pulls a 180 on him, betrays him and goes gangsta on his ass with his founding titan abilities?

      From what I remember Karl intended the rumbling to be a empty threat that would scare the world into leaving Paradis alone for awhile leaving its inhabitants to enjoy paradise in his mind. He knew Marley would come one day to enact revenge and he was just going to let his subjects die in the ensuing invasion for the sins he felt they were guilty of (very similar to Zeke). I honestly feel if Zeke wasn't such a unreliable figure and the Yeagerists didn't generate so much chaos (not to mention an embararssing showing in this fight) Paradis would have already won after all this fight proves that Marley isn't particularly that impressive as Reiner is aiming to be king of the jobbers (I love him as a character but he has never beaten another character without help), Porco is dead, Pieck is screwed against Mikasa/Armin, and there general appears to be there only competent soldier (also possibly dead or horribly injured) and with the current situation I think they really need Annie's help to turn things around. The world is basically going to converge in one location making there forces easy to destroy with the Wall Titans (a nice backbreaking trap) and giving Paradis more time to develop stronger weapons. The 3DMG is already ace so I think if they develop an air force and some anti air guns they could mount a good defense in the future heck the Vietcong did that in real life with no air superiority and a smaller army against a super power (nasty traps, understanding of the terrain, and guerilla warfare made the difference there). The only thing Paradis has to worry about is sheer numbers and high flying targets (the blimps were close to the ground here) but the Wall titans have no equal in a world without the atomic bomb so as long as Eren is fine Eldia is fine. Zeke is definitely the endgame boss though and I believe he will be the final opponent if Eren is dead or alive as Eren will never go ahead with his plan and he would probably take a far more hostile form of euthanization if the one person he truly cares for is dead (cue a rumbling with far more apocalyptic notions than even Eren at his most vicious).
      i see. so how do you think our boi Zeke is going to pull it off in the event of Eren being dead or might potentially go against his plan

      If Eren is dead I think he's going to catch his head (a head can survive for a moment so the Founding could still be active for that brief moment) and activate the Wall Titans attempting to kill the entire world in a moment of grief fuelled rage rather than the merciful death for the Eldians he has been planning. I have thought quite a bit about how Eren and Zeke would fight each other for control and instead of a physical battle I think it will be something akin to FX's Legion where the protagonist and antagonist occasionally battle with their minds in an entirely seperate plane of existence (the astral plane in X-Men terms). I think Zeke & Eren could engage each other in a similar fashion meeting in the Paths dimension for a fight or a talk (possibly with the OG Ymir) for which wish will be carried out by the Founding Titan. The will for the two respectively I think will be sterilization of the Eldians for Zeke while Eren will modify the bodies of Eldians to be unable to transform into Titans and be severed from the will of the Founder (the Eldians would be truly free in that sense) and on top of this will summon the Wall Titans one last time to act as the defenders of Paradis. This is my best guess to how this is going to end as the titan problem is relatively easy to solve with the Founder's biology ability  but the series also has to solve sociological problems inherent to mankind (Ex. nations and people have long memories, enemies will always exist, suffering and evil can never be wholly eliminated) and most series fall flat here in there endings. I honestly can't even guess how this will conclude thematically but it should be interesting to see if it can stick the landing (the series recent hot streak suggests it will at least be wildly entertaining).

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Here's a question.

      We already know that The Rumbling will be a disadvantage for Marley with the wall titans coming to life and all BUUUUUUT will it be win for the Eldians, especially with Eren controlling them with Zeke's help. 

      From what we've managed to gather, the rumbling was a measure that Karl Fritz created if ever Marley decided to attack and start a war with Paradis with the hope for there to be peace (Welp, so much for that). So if the rumbling does come to pass (Which i'm sure will happen coz Isayama cant just bring it up and not explore it further) will Paradis gain the upper hand, with Zeke wanting to implement the Euthanasia plan, unless Eren pulls a 180 on him, betrays him and goes gangsta on his ass with his founding titan abilities?

      From what I remember Karl intended the rumbling to be a empty threat that would scare the world into leaving Paradis alone for awhile leaving its inhabitants to enjoy paradise in his mind. He knew Marley would come one day to enact revenge and he was just going to let his subjects die in the ensuing invasion for the sins he felt they were guilty of (very similar to Zeke). I honestly feel if Zeke wasn't such a unreliable figure and the Yeagerists didn't generate so much chaos (not to mention an embararssing showing in this fight) Paradis would have already won after all this fight proves that Marley isn't particularly that impressive as Reiner is aiming to be king of the jobbers (I love him as a character but he has never beaten another character without help), Porco is dead, Pieck is screwed against Mikasa/Armin, and there general appears to be there only competent soldier (also possibly dead or horribly injured) and with the current situation I think they really need Annie's help to turn things around. The world is basically going to converge in one location making there forces easy to destroy with the Wall Titans (a nice backbreaking trap) and giving Paradis more time to develop stronger weapons. The 3DMG is already ace so I think if they develop an air force and some anti air guns they could mount a good defense in the future heck the Vietcong did that in real life with no air superiority and a smaller army against a super power (nasty traps, understanding of the terrain, and guerilla warfare made the difference there). The only thing Paradis has to worry about is sheer numbers and high flying targets (the blimps were close to the ground here) but the Wall titans have no equal in a world without the atomic bomb so as long as Eren is fine Eldia is fine. Zeke is definitely the endgame boss though and I believe he will be the final opponent if Eren is dead or alive as Eren will never go ahead with his plan and he would probably take a far more hostile form of euthanization if the one person he truly cares for is dead (cue a rumbling with far more apocalyptic notions than even Eren at his most vicious).
      i see. so how do you think our boi Zeke is going to pull it off in the event of Eren being dead or might potentially go against his plan
      If Eren is dead I think he's going to catch his head (a head can survive for a moment so the Founding could still be active for that brief moment) and activate the Wall Titans attempting to kill the entire world in a moment of grief fuelled rage rather than the merciful death for the Eldians he has been planning. I have thought quite a bit about how Eren and Zeke would fight each other for control and instead of a physical battle I think it will be something akin to FX's Legion where the protagonist and antagonist occasionally battle with their minds in an entirely seperate plane of existence (the astral plane in X-Men terms). I think Zeke & Eren could engage each other in a similar fashion meeting in the Paths dimension for a fight or a talk (possibly with the OG Ymir) for which wish will be carried out by the Founding Titan. The will for the two respectively I think will be sterilization of the Eldians for Zeke while Eren will modify the bodies of Eldians to be unable to transform into Titans and be severed from the will of the Founder (the Eldians would be truly free in that sense) and on top of this will summon the Wall Titans one last time to act as the defenders of Paradis. This is my best guess to how this is going to end as the titan problem is relatively easy to solve with the Founder's biology ability  but the series also has to solve sociological problems inherent to mankind (Ex. nations and people have long memories, enemies will always exist, suffering and evil can never be wholly eliminated) and most series fall flat here in there endings. I honestly can't even guess how this will conclude thematically but it should be interesting to see if it can stick the landing (the series recent hot streak suggests it will at least be wildly entertaining).

      i see. But if Eren does manage to somehow rewrite the eldians genetic code and prevent them from turning into titans which will free the Eldians, i doubt if that will solve the conflict and racial beef Marley has against them. the war between them will probably continue on unless there's a way to end it

        Loading editor
    • If I where a narcissist, I'd swear that Gabi was created to make me personally miserable. 

        Loading editor
    • @Cheng The Nerd I definitely agree with what you said  dealing with Marley and especially the rest of the world is an entirely different matter as getting rid of the devil blood won't resolve the issues everyone has with them as they will still think they are marked with sin. It's why I think this will be one of the trickiest series to end in recent memory as it feels like the only options (at least for me) is a punt on the Marley/World conflict with Eren succesfully performing a back breaker of a military operation with the help of the Wall Titans (a colossal loss of soldiers and resources sends the world back decades but doesn't resolve the conflict, possible sequel series 40-50 years in the future continues the story) and I would consider this the most realistic ending, Paradis kills the rest of the world which is nihilistic but also not particularly satisfying, another Watchmen clone emerges and is once again lacklustre compared to Alan Moore's OG work, we get a rushed ending where Marley and Paradis make up real fast (the worst of the bunch) in the span of two chapters, or complete subversion Magath is still alive and wins the conflict shows genuine mercy and just annexes Paradis after getting rid of Zeke/Eren and the Eldians are slowly but surely integrated into Marley as equals fulfilling Willy's Helos plan but this is extremely unlikely (a 1% chance in my book). I have to say that most satisfying endings for long form I've seen have either gone with arrogant god like big bad goes boom (The traditional Anime/JRPG route) because of its simplicity (it's easier to beat something that is "evil" rather than solve a societal evil), a personal small stakes story where the hero gets to the end of the rainbow (for good or ill) in a concise logical fashion  (The Breaking Bad route), the never ending route where the larger conflict ends and characters get good send offs but the world continues spinning leaving room for more stories (I'll call this the Fallout type ending as most endings in this series have the player character solve the conflict at hand but "War Never Changes" and by the time we revisit the West or East in a sequel the NCR or BOS will be engaged in a new conflict and have changed in the years since the last conflict against the Enclave or The Master for example), and finally I have mentioned the nihilist route before and when done right it is quite good (conflicts based in horror and realism are usually the good ones) but most series don't stick to it either resolving it in a sequel series or saying that was a alternative timeline because for most its inherently unsatisfying. Attack On Titan on the other hand is leaning towards a permanent end despite being a sociological series and I honestly haven't ecountered a single series that has pulled this off (most recently a very high profile flop bombed hard because of its inability to solve complex problems instead coming up with a bizarre solution that probably made things worse) so I don't envy Isayama because this is honestly the hardest ending to nail but hopefully he pulls it off.

        Loading editor
    • The man up above has a good point.

        Loading editor
    • LoverOfTragedy wrote:
      If I where a narcissist, I'd swear that Gabi was created to make me personally miserable. 

      Welcome to more than half of the fandom buddy :)

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      @Cheng The Nerd I definitely agree with what you said  dealing with Marley and especially the rest of the world is an entirely different matter as getting rid of the devil blood won't resolve the issues everyone has with them as they will still think they are marked with sin. It's why I think this will be one of the trickiest series to end in recent memory as it feels like the only options (at least for me) is a punt on the Marley/World conflict with Eren succesfully performing a back breaker of a military operation with the help of the Wall Titans (a colossal loss of soldiers and resources sends the world back decades but doesn't resolve the conflict, possible sequel series 40-50 years in the future continues the story) and I would consider this the most realistic ending, Paradis kills the rest of the world which is nihilistic but also not particularly satisfying, another Watchmen clone emerges and is once again lacklustre compared to Alan Moore's OG work, we get a rushed ending where Marley and Paradis make up real fast (the worst of the bunch) in the span of two chapters, or complete subversion Magath is still alive and wins the conflict shows genuine mercy and just annexes Paradis after getting rid of Zeke/Eren and the Eldians are slowly but surely integrated into Marley as equals fulfilling Willy's Helos plan but this is extremely unlikely (a 1% chance in my book). I have to say that most satisfying endings for long form I've seen have either gone with arrogant god like big bad goes boom (The traditional Anime/JRPG route) because of its simplicity (it's easier to beat something that is "evil" rather than solve a societal evil), a personal small stakes story where the hero gets to the end of the rainbow (for good or ill) in a concise logical fashion  (The Breaking Bad route), the never ending route where the larger conflict ends and characters get good send offs but the world continues spinning leaving room for more stories (I'll call this the Fallout type ending as most endings in this series have the player character solve the conflict at hand but "War Never Changes" and by the time we revisit the West or East in a sequel the NCR or BOS will be engaged in a new conflict and have changed in the years since the last conflict against the Enclave or The Master for example), and finally I have mentioned the nihilist route before and when done right it is quite good (conflicts based in horror and realism are usually the good ones) but most series don't stick to it either resolving it in a sequel series or saying that was a alternative timeline because for most its inherently unsatisfying. Attack On Titan on the other hand is leaning towards a permanent end despite being a sociological series and I honestly haven't ecountered a single series that has pulled this off (most recently a very high profile flop bombed hard because of its inability to solve complex problems instead coming up with a bizarre solution that probably made things worse) so I don't envy Isayama because this is honestly the hardest ending to nail but hopefully he pulls it off.

      Isayama should win an award for a job well down. As much as the entirity of the manga and anime is an apocolyptic shounen, we can relate so much with everything because it's so realistic and it made me see that there's not exactly Good vs Bad as per se. It's more of people doing or acting in a certain way regardless of them being seen as bad all because the person who's acting on those actions believe that they're doing the right thing which we've seen through Eren, Karl Fritz, Zeke, Gabi and Reiner. 

      The politics in Attack on titan is not so different from real life politics, and the way the society has a sense of hegemony towards its members is not any different from the societies wwe as individuals live in today.

      This is why i love anime so much. Even though the action and plot is thrilling to watch, there's always a hidden message that the authors and creators are trying to send to the audience. 

        Loading editor
    • @Cheng The Nerd. I feel similarly that even if the ending doesn't stick the landing I'm glad Isayama had the balls to evolve the story in such a complex manner. I would even go as far to say that the twist is straight up masterful in terms of how it interrogates the way that many felt during the beginning (including me) when we saw the titans as mindless monsters that needed be crushed (even moreso the Warriors Three) with the anime and manga really pumping up that feeling through pacing, music, tone, and visuals. Now though we see that the mindless titans are victims to be pitied and the Warriors aren't diabolical monsters but simply people. This is remarkably clever because of the way that it highlights how we dehumaninze our enemies and ultimately struggle in the face of realizing our enemies are not monsters which really pushed this series up a notch in my opinion. Not every evolution has been great (Ex, the vapourized stakes RTS onward where the Survey Corps feel weirdly unbeatable vs the early feeling of humanity being fragile and on the edge ) but the twist and the complexity it awoke in the series was definitely worth it. I still think that one of the series primary influences Watchmen is still the superior work with the novel being a unbeatable masterwork but in a sea of lame knockoffs that took all the wrong lessons from it (Ex. amp up the ultraviolence and sexual violence to achieve grit) or straight up copied the ending with no subtelty this is the closest I feel a fellow deconstructionist work has come to matching its depth (thematic & characters wise) and tight meaningful construction and I mean that as the highest praise possible (Side Note: Eva is usually considered Watchmen's Japanese counterpart but I feel AOT is far more relevant as Eva ultimately is a different beast). I guess now I'll elaborate on why I think the sociological ending is hard to achieve is that many of the other great endings are set on smaller conflicts (Ex. Breaking Bad) or have easier to identify ends (Ex. Gurren Lagann or FMA) while a sociological series (Ex. Watchmen and Game Of Thrones) has to solve a complex issue without belittling the audience or mishandling volatile thematic material (race, war, genocide etc.) that if done poorly reflects badly on the author. You can't have a totally optimistic ending where everyone lived happily ever after as these are problems that plague our reality and for all of recorded history have remained (Ex. you can't kill hatred like a heel villain in a classic JRPG). Their is a great GRRM quote highlighting this problem of easy resolutions and overtly optimistic endings by asking the question: "In LOTR we are told Aragorn was a good and wise king and ruled for a thousand years but what was Aragorn's tax policy?" as while LOTR is a different beast it is a cardinal sin commited by many sociological series to have a easy resolution where we assume everything worked out for the better (on my recent anime classics tour one particular fan favourite commited this sin tenfold). On the other hand the nihilistic ending sometimes just makes the writer look like a jackass who asserts something anybody can guess with little to no effort (MAN bad. Real deep analysis there) and is again better suited to horror (usually of the cosmic variety). The only good sociological endings I've seen usually end with a grand lie which is effectively an ambiguous ending where we never get a resolution (not a bad thing if done well) or a punt to be resolved latter. Alternatively the realist route is the other strong resolution where the societal problems are analyzed but not resolved (Fallout 1/2/NV and Planescape Torment are wonderful works in this regard) as you can't solve fundamental issues with humanity and reality. Ultimately AOT is not on the same wavelength as either of these endings with Eren/Zeke seeking to permantely end a near 2000 year old conflict and the series can only use FT magic to resolve Eldian conflicts (unless there is a way to bind all of humanity to the FT's will) which leaves a intensely messy conflict that shares a lot in common with conflicts found in places like the Middle East and Africa which are the kind that have endured for hundreds of years and have no end in sight so the question becomes how do you end a conflict like this permantely without oversimplifying it or failing to satisfy the audience and in that regard this ending is going to be one of the hardest this side of GOT.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      @Cheng The Nerd. I feel similarly that even if the ending doesn't stick the landing I'm glad Isayama had the balls to evolve the story in such a complex manner. I would even go as far to say that the twist is straight up masterful in terms of how it interrogates the way that many felt during the beginning (including me) when we saw the titans as mindless monsters that needed be crushed (even moreso the Warriors Three) with the anime and manga really pumping up that feeling through pacing, music, tone, and visuals. Now though we see that the mindless titans are victims to be pitied and the Warriors aren't diabolical monsters but simply people. This is remarkably clever because of the way that it highlights how we dehumaninze our enemies and ultimately struggle in the face of realizing our enemies are not monsters which really pushed this series up a notch in my opinion. Not every evolution has been great (Ex, the vapourized stakes RTS onward where the Survey Corps feel weirdly unbeatable vs the early feeling of humanity being fragile and on the edge ) but the twist and the complexity it awoke in the series was definitely worth it. I still think that one of the series primary influences Watchmen is still the superior work with the novel being a unbeatable masterwork but in a sea of lame knockoffs that took all the wrong lessons from it (Ex. amp up the ultraviolence and sexual violence to achieve grit) or straight up copied the ending with no subtelty this is the closest I feel a fellow deconstructionist work has come to matching its depth (thematic & characters wise) and tight meaningful construction and I mean that as the highest praise possible (Side Note: Eva is usually considered Watchmen's Japanese counterpart but I feel AOT is far more relevant as Eva ultimately is a different beast). I guess now I'll elaborate on why I think the sociological ending is hard to achieve is that many of the other great endings are set on smaller conflicts (Ex. Breaking Bad) or have easier to identify ends (Ex. Gurren Lagann or FMA) while a sociological series (Ex. Watchmen and Game Of Thrones) has to solve a complex issue without belittling the audience or mishandling volatile thematic material (race, war, genocide etc.) that if done poorly reflects badly on the author. You can't have a totally optimistic ending where everyone lived happily ever after as these are problems that plague our reality and for all of recorded history have remained (Ex. you can't kill hatred like a heel villain in a classic JRPG). Their is a great GRRM quote highlighting this problem of easy resolutions and overtly optimistic endings by asking the question: "In LOTR we are told Aragorn was a good and wise king and ruled for a thousand years but what was Aragorn's tax policy?" as while LOTR is a different beast it is a cardinal sin commited by many sociological series to have a easy resolution where we assume everything worked out for the better (on my recent anime classics tour one particular fan favourite commited this sin tenfold). On the other hand the nihilistic ending sometimes just makes the writer look like a jackass who asserts something anybody can guess with little to no effort (MAN bad. Real deep analysis there) and is again better suited to horror (usually of the cosmic variety). The only good sociological endings I've seen usually end with a grand lie which is effectively an ambiguous ending where we never get a resolution (not a bad thing if done well) or a punt to be resolved latter. Alternatively the realist route is the other strong resolution where the societal problems are analyzed but not resolved (Fallout 1/2/NV and Planescape Torment are wonderful works in this regard) as you can't solve fundamental issues with humanity and reality. Ultimately AOT is not on the same wavelength as either of these endings with Eren/Zeke seeking to permantely end a near 2000 year old conflict and the series can only use FT magic to resolve Eldian conflicts (unless there is a way to bind all of humanity to the FT's will) which leaves a intensely messy conflict that shares a lot in common with conflicts found in places like the Middle East and Africa which are the kind that have endured for hundreds of years and have no end in sight so the question becomes how do you end a conflict like this permantely without oversimplifying it or failing to satisfy the audience and in that regard this ending is going to be one of the hardest this side of GOT.

      now this bring up the issue (spoiler if possible) about the 'We are finally free' panel.

      What could it mean? 

        Loading editor
    • @ Cheng The Nerd. I think it is a genuine declaration of freedom from one of three characters (Eren, Falco, or Gabi) that signifies the conflict has been resolved so the next generation can live in a brighter world. I really think that's what is going to happen based off that panel and the characterization of Eren/Zeke is that it's going to be a simple payoff that ends the series on a bright note showing a permanent resolution to the conflict with the only other option being the memory twist I mentioned in a previous post (the person is Grisha, baby is Eren). I think how we get to that panel is more interesting right now than that panel (it is a perfect tease though, not too much not too little) as I really want to know how Reiner (especially with this recent curveball), the Helos plan, and the Eldia vs the world conflict resolves and I would like to see some speculation from the people still hanging around this thread about how these threads are going to wrap up. 

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      @ Cheng The Nerd. I think it is a genuine declaration of freedom from one of three characters (Eren, Falco, or Gabi) that signifies the conflict has been resolved so the next generation can live in a brighter world. I really think that's what is going to happen based off that panel and the characterization of Eren/Zeke is that it's going to be a simple payoff that ends the series on a bright note showing a permanent resolution to the conflict with the only other option being the memory twist I mentioned in a previous post (the person is Grisha, baby is Eren). I think how we get to that panel is more interesting right now than that panel (it is a perfect tease though, not too much not too little) as I really want to know how Reiner (especially with this recent curveball), the Helos plan, and the Eldia vs the world conflict resolves and I would like to see some speculation from the people still hanging around this thread about how these threads are going to wrap up. 

      I hope so too. but the odds of it going that direction seem blurred. Isayama does a flawless job at catching us off guard with his plot twists. Hell, i was not prepared to see Gabi shoot Eren's head off like that. But from the audio that had been circulating recently (another possible spoiler), it appears that the rumbling will happen, and judging from what i was hearing, it appears both sides are doomed

        Loading editor
    • Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      @ Cheng The Nerd. I think it is a genuine declaration of freedom from one of three characters (Eren, Falco, or Gabi) that signifies the conflict has been resolved so the next generation can live in a brighter world. I really think that's what is going to happen based off that panel and the characterization of Eren/Zeke is that it's going to be a simple payoff that ends the series on a bright note showing a permanent resolution to the conflict with the only other option being the memory twist I mentioned in a previous post (the person is Grisha, baby is Eren). I think how we get to that panel is more interesting right now than that panel (it is a perfect tease though, not too much not too little) as I really want to know how Reiner (especially with this recent curveball), the Helos plan, and the Eldia vs the world conflict resolves and I would like to see some speculation from the people still hanging around this thread about how these threads are going to wrap up. 
      I hope so too. but the odds of it going that direction seem blurred. Isayama does a flawless job at catching us off guard with his plot twists. Hell, i was not prepared to see Gabi shoot Eren's head off like that. But from the audio that had been circulating recently (another possible spoiler), it appears that the rumbling will happen, and judging from what i was hearing, it appears both sides are doomed

      The only part of the exhibit I saw was a video + audio of the Willy speech (wonder if that is Willy's actual VA because he sounded pretty good) where he's talking about Eldian history and the potential for the rumbling + him being squashed in that sick declaration of war panel. It was really cool though the way that it was depicted like a shadow puppet show which was pretty neat overall and really added to the atmosphere of the speech. I think the rumbling has to occur either way as it is too big of a chekov's gun to not fire at least once, the question is the context of the rumbling is it Zeke losing his shit because Eren actually died or Eren betrayed him as Zeke's already lacklustre faith in humanity would be absolutely destoyed if he found out Eren was using him or is it Eren who activates them as a hard counter to the worlds forces which is one of the other big setups that's been dormant since chapter 100. I don't think that the rumbling is going to wipe out everyone as the final panel seems unambiguously positive rather than pure nihilism which would represent Zeke's unconditional victory after all no one can suffer if everyone is dead (an idea called the death drive in philosophy, can be seen in Eva & Persona 3 and many other Japanese works for some reason). I feel like no matter what Zeke won't win as it just feels kinda antithetical to the series general tone (the world & the people that inhabit it can be violent & cruel but life & freedom are still beautiful and worth fighting for) and I doubt many would like it. Still fun to speculate though on how it's going to end and I'm definitely locked and loaded for whatever ending the series is going to go with.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      @ Cheng The Nerd. I think it is a genuine declaration of freedom from one of three characters (Eren, Falco, or Gabi) that signifies the conflict has been resolved so the next generation can live in a brighter world. I really think that's what is going to happen based off that panel and the characterization of Eren/Zeke is that it's going to be a simple payoff that ends the series on a bright note showing a permanent resolution to the conflict with the only other option being the memory twist I mentioned in a previous post (the person is Grisha, baby is Eren). I think how we get to that panel is more interesting right now than that panel (it is a perfect tease though, not too much not too little) as I really want to know how Reiner (especially with this recent curveball), the Helos plan, and the Eldia vs the world conflict resolves and I would like to see some speculation from the people still hanging around this thread about how these threads are going to wrap up. 
      I hope so too. but the odds of it going that direction seem blurred. Isayama does a flawless job at catching us off guard with his plot twists. Hell, i was not prepared to see Gabi shoot Eren's head off like that. But from the audio that had been circulating recently (another possible spoiler), it appears that the rumbling will happen, and judging from what i was hearing, it appears both sides are doomed
      The only part of the exhibit I saw was a video + audio of the Willy speech (wonder if that is Willy's actual VA because he sounded pretty good) where he's talking about Eldian history and the potential for the rumbling + him being squashed in that sick declaration of war panel. It was really cool though the way that it was depicted like a shadow puppet show which was pretty neat overall and really added to the atmosphere of the speech. I think the rumbling has to occur either way as it is too big of a chekov's gun to not fire at least once, the question is the context of the rumbling is it Zeke losing his shit because Eren actually died or Eren betrayed him as Zeke's already lacklustre faith in humanity would be absolutely destoyed if he found out Eren was using him or is it Eren who activates them as a hard counter to the worlds forces which is one of the other big setups that's been dormant since chapter 100. I don't think that the rumbling is going to wipe out everyone as the final panel seems unambiguously positive rather than pure nihilism which would represent Zeke's unconditional victory after all no one can suffer if everyone is dead (an idea called the death drive in philosophy, can be seen in Eva & Persona 3 and many other Japanese works for some reason). I feel like no matter what Zeke won't win as it just feels kinda antithetical to the series general tone (the world & the people that inhabit it can be violent & cruel but life & freedom are still beautiful and worth fighting for) and I doubt many would like it. Still fun to speculate though on how it's going to end and I'm definitely locked and loaded for whatever ending the series is going to go with.

      I do hope that Eren plans to betray him in the end because i aint buying the fact that he's actually for the euthanasia plan. Even though Eren has been different after the scene at the sea, i doubt if he'd want have the entire eldian race not have children, that's genocide. And i dont believe Eren was even victimised the samewas Zeke was, in fact, Eren wasnt victimised or used as a tool to restore Eldia. It's like he said when he talked to Armin back in season 3 part 2, the moment he showed him his book about the world beyond the walls, he ended up developing that desire for freedom. And that being the case, Grisha would have had no problem passing the mission to Eren no problem or do anything to manipulate him. Eren would have accepted the mission if grisha hadnt rushed and given him both the attack and founding titan and given him answers. unless what i'm saying is far fetched

        Loading editor
    • Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      Cheng The Nerd wrote:
      Freeman1378 wrote:
      @ Cheng The Nerd. I think it is a genuine declaration of freedom from one of three characters (Eren, Falco, or Gabi) that signifies the conflict has been resolved so the next generation can live in a brighter world. I really think that's what is going to happen based off that panel and the characterization of Eren/Zeke is that it's going to be a simple payoff that ends the series on a bright note showing a permanent resolution to the conflict with the only other option being the memory twist I mentioned in a previous post (the person is Grisha, baby is Eren). I think how we get to that panel is more interesting right now than that panel (it is a perfect tease though, not too much not too little) as I really want to know how Reiner (especially with this recent curveball), the Helos plan, and the Eldia vs the world conflict resolves and I would like to see some speculation from the people still hanging around this thread about how these threads are going to wrap up. 
      I hope so too. but the odds of it going that direction seem blurred. Isayama does a flawless job at catching us off guard with his plot twists. Hell, i was not prepared to see Gabi shoot Eren's head off like that. But from the audio that had been circulating recently (another possible spoiler), it appears that the rumbling will happen, and judging from what i was hearing, it appears both sides are doomed
      The only part of the exhibit I saw was a video + audio of the Willy speech (wonder if that is Willy's actual VA because he sounded pretty good) where he's talking about Eldian history and the potential for the rumbling + him being squashed in that sick declaration of war panel. It was really cool though the way that it was depicted like a shadow puppet show which was pretty neat overall and really added to the atmosphere of the speech. I think the rumbling has to occur either way as it is too big of a chekov's gun to not fire at least once, the question is the context of the rumbling is it Zeke losing his shit because Eren actually died or Eren betrayed him as Zeke's already lacklustre faith in humanity would be absolutely destoyed if he found out Eren was using him or is it Eren who activates them as a hard counter to the worlds forces which is one of the other big setups that's been dormant since chapter 100. I don't think that the rumbling is going to wipe out everyone as the final panel seems unambiguously positive rather than pure nihilism which would represent Zeke's unconditional victory after all no one can suffer if everyone is dead (an idea called the death drive in philosophy, can be seen in Eva & Persona 3 and many other Japanese works for some reason). I feel like no matter what Zeke won't win as it just feels kinda antithetical to the series general tone (the world & the people that inhabit it can be violent & cruel but life & freedom are still beautiful and worth fighting for) and I doubt many would like it. Still fun to speculate though on how it's going to end and I'm definitely locked and loaded for whatever ending the series is going to go with.
      I do hope that Eren plans to betray him in the end because i aint buying the fact that he's actually for the euthanasia plan. Even though Eren has been different after the scene at the sea, i doubt if he'd want have the entire eldian race not have children, that's genocide. And i dont believe Eren was even victimised the samewas Zeke was, in fact, Eren wasnt victimised or used as a tool to restore Eldia. It's like he said when he talked to Armin back in season 3 part 2, the moment he showed him his book about the world beyond the walls, he ended up developing that desire for freedom. And that being the case, Grisha would have had no problem passing the mission to Eren no problem or do anything to manipulate him. Eren would have accepted the mission if grisha hadnt rushed and given him both the attack and founding titan and given him answers. unless what i'm saying is far fetched

      Yea no way in hell Eren is on Zeke's side as Eren always has been on the side of life & pretty much embodies the Attack Titan whereas Zeke is trying to drag a entire race down with him all because he can't see value in life and only sees suffering and has decided that all of Eldia should go back to the void with him whether they like it or not (a deeply arrogant and wrongheaded idea). Even his plan is incredibly cruel even moreso than Marley as If you've ever seen Children Of Men you know this is a nightmare scenario that amplfies despair & ruin rather than giving people a merciful end showing that Zeke doesn't really even understand other human beings (not even his own brother) as all he does is pity them rather than understanding why they fight to live. Eren is of course the polar opposite of Zeke and I think Kruger set that up intentionally with his advice to Grisha to start a new family and raise a child with love rather than hate considering he had at least some of Eren's memories.

        Loading editor
    • This conversation does also make me wonder once again about that persistent theory about the nine titans that each Titan has a will of its own and represent a specific idea with Attack = Freedom, Jaw = Sacrifice, Founding = Apathy, Beast = Pity, Armour = Protect, Colossal = Remorse, WHT = Judgement, Cart = unknown (perhaps something to do with carrying?), Female Titan = unknown (this one has me stumped) is what I'm guessing right now. This theory further states that the Titan chooses people that are bound to its core idea (Eren, Grisha, and Zeke) or reshapes them to fit it (Porco, Armin). Interestingly enough with our dear departed Porky this theory has resurfaced as a viable one considering he sacrificed himself just like his brother and Ymir. I have been wondering for a long time too if they are all facets of the original Ymir Fritz's personality and how she was in life which I always thought would be neat as the Paths appear to be AOT's combination of the collective unconscious and the akashic records (recording of everything past, present, and future) so it might be possible. 

        Loading editor
    • Response to above:



      I don't nessesarily think that's entirely true for the colossal titan, as if that were the case, the colossal titan would be easier to defeat in general, and armin would have gotten that will. He did explode marleys dock, so thats wrong. I think the colossal titan represents something else, but i cant put my finger on it.

      Beast i would say is wrong as well, because its zeke himself that got enraged by it. Id say the beast represents how we humans are not as strong as we think we are, because look at how often out stupidity in real life gets us killed.

      As for the attack titan, i think it represents the past and future, as eren kruger gives it to grisha to get the founding titan and secure its future. Everyone believed that eren was the future (some still do) And so far, the attack titan was the only one really giving us clues in season one and three, (excluding the colossal titan in the wall) to tell us what was happening in the future and/or past.

      For me female was obvious a little bit. It means sister. If you think about it: annie was like a sister to a few, and its basically the female version of the attack titan. The cartman titan is more of a support titan. But im going to say you're right with most of em.

        Loading editor
    • Whalordius TDD wrote:
      Response to above:


      I don't nessesarily think that's entirely true for the colossal titan, as if that were the case, the colossal titan would be easier to defeat in general, and armin would have gotten that will. He did explode marleys dock, so thats wrong. I think the colossal titan represents something else, but i cant put my finger on it.

      Beast i would say is wrong as well, because its zeke himself that got enraged by it. Id say the beast represents how we humans are not as strong as we think we are, because look at how often out stupidity in real life gets us killed.

      As for the attack titan, i think it represents the past and future, as eren kruger gives it to grisha to get the founding titan and secure its future. Everyone believed that eren was the future (some still do) And so far, the attack titan was the only one really giving us clues in season one and three, (excluding the colossal titan in the wall) to tell us what was happening in the future and/or past.

      For me female was obvious a little bit. It means sister. If you think about it: annie was like a sister to a few, and its basically the female version of the attack titan. The cartman titan is more of a support titan. But im going to say you're right with most of em.

      I'm basing it more on what we know about the hosts as Xaver and Zeke both show pity as one of their more prevalent character traits as all Xaver does is pity himself for the bad hand he was dealt and Zeke also pities himself and others for being unable to live life without suffering to the point that he doesn't see value in life. Beast could also be thanatos/death drive (the desire to kill oneself and return to zero where there is no pain ) as both clearly wish they were never born and feel that Eldians as a whole are a cursed existence. The Attack is the one that is known for certain outside of the all but confirmed Jaw as Kruger outlines the Titan when talking to Grisha and all 3 hosts are freedom fighters and knowing the truth is a part of what it means to be free which each Attack user has come to obtain. The Colossal is a interesting one as it is harder to boil down into a word but remorse or regret (maybe guilt is a better word?) felt the most approriate because it is the most powerful of the 8 non-founder titans but each user (Bert and Armin) seem to be filled with remorse as Bert seemed to regret turning on his friends and Armin wishes the Marley conflict never came to a head but in the end they were both unable to escape their fate as powerful Warriors with both coming to terms with that in their own ways so maybe alternatively the inability to escape ones fate could be the Colossal Titans trait. Now that I think about it the Cart might actually be loyalty now that I think about it as it does look like a dog (especially in skeletal form) a animal known for its loyalty, the Cart is a beast of burden (hence the name) either assisting others or relying on allies, and one of Pieck's most identifiable traits is her unwavering belief in people like Magath, Porco, Reiner, her gunner crew, and Gabi + staying loyal to Marley even when provided opportunities to jump ship. The female is still a mystery as we have no clue about Annie's predecessor and Annie herself has always been a reticent character that sticks to herself and has been MIA since like chapter 30 (wanted to watch that OVA real bad but couldn't find it legally) so she is a complete mystery as far as I'm concerned. Even the War Hammer (owned by borderline non-character Ms. Tybur) has more evidence to suggest my idea of judgement with a identifiable appearance in a executioners hood, saying "Any Last Words", and wielding a hammer a symbol of a judge.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote:
      Whalordius TDD wrote:
      Response to above:


      I don't nessesarily think that's entirely true for the colossal titan, as if that were the case, the colossal titan would be easier to defeat in general, and armin would have gotten that will. He did explode marleys dock, so thats wrong. I think the colossal titan represents something else, but i cant put my finger on it.

      Beast i would say is wrong as well, because its zeke himself that got enraged by it. Id say the beast represents how we humans are not as strong as we think we are, because look at how often out stupidity in real life gets us killed.

      As for the attack titan, i think it represents the past and future, as eren kruger gives it to grisha to get the founding titan and secure its future. Everyone believed that eren was the future (some still do) And so far, the attack titan was the only one really giving us clues in season one and three, (excluding the colossal titan in the wall) to tell us what was happening in the future and/or past.

      For me female was obvious a little bit. It means sister. If you think about it: annie was like a sister to a few, and its basically the female version of the attack titan. The cartman titan is more of a support titan. But im going to say you're right with most of em.

      I'm basing it more on what we know about the hosts as Xaver and Zeke both show pity as one of their more prevalent character traits as all Xaver does is pity himself for the bad hand he was dealt and Zeke also pities himself and others for being unable to live life without suffering to the point that he doesn't see value in life. Beast could also be thanatos/death drive (the desire to kill oneself and return to zero where there is no pain ) as both clearly wish they were never born and feel that Eldians as a whole are a cursed existence. The Attack is the one that is known for certain outside of the all but confirmed Jaw as Kruger outlines the Titan when talking to Grisha and all 3 hosts are freedom fighters and knowing the truth is a part of what it means to be free which each Attack user has come to obtain. The Colossal is a interesting one as it is harder to boil down into a word but remorse or regret (maybe guilt is a better word?) felt the most approriate because it is the most powerful of the 8 non-founder titans but each user (Bert and Armin) seem to be filled with remorse as Bert seemed to regret turning on his friends and Armin wishes the Marley conflict never came to a head for their actions but in the end they were both unable to escape their fate as powerful Warriors with both coming to terms with that in their own ways so maybe alternatively the inability to escape ones fate could be the Colossal Titans trait. Now that I think about it the Cart might actually be loyalty now that I think about it as it does look like a dog (especially in skeletal form) a animal known for its loyalty, the Cart is a beast of burden (hence the name) either assisting others or relying on allies, and one of Pieck's most identifiable traits is her unwavering belief in people like Magath, Porco, Reiner, her gunner crew, and Gabi + staying loyal to Marley even when provided opportunities to jump ship. The female is still a mystery as we have no clue about Annie's predecessor and Annie herself has always been a reticent character that sticks to herself and has been MIA since like chapter 30 (wanted to watch that OVA real bad but couldn't find it legally) so she is a complete mystery as far as I'm concerned. Even the War Hammer (owned by borderline non-character Ms. Tybur) has more evidence to suggest my idea of judgement with a identifiable appearance in a executioners hood, saying "Any Last Words", and wielding a hammer a symbol of a judge.

      I still think the attack is wrong. But it might be both of our beliefs now that I think about it.

      So... Eh.

        Loading editor
    • I don't buy the theory of titans being embodiments of specific character themes, but when I look at colossal titan I think 'tragic'.

        Loading editor
    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      I don't buy the theory of titans being embodiments of specific character themes, but when I look at colossal titan I think 'tragic'.

      i think it makes sense because how Freeman1378 explain it, it tallies and connects with how Ymir Fritz's soul was split into the nine titans. And i do believe what makes a soul is certain personality traits.

        Loading editor
    • Colossal may be the most physically powerful titan, however it's also the slowest & it can't be used repeatedly in quick succession. I agree it seems to have the Tragic Personality. Still because of its glaring weaknesses discovered by Armin, I would have to say it's equal in potential to the WarHammer & truly surpassed only by the Founding Titan (without the will of Karl Fritz)

      Warhammer is easily the most versatile of the titans, unfortunately Eren isn't able to make full use of its abilities. Unfortunately we don't know much about its stats because of how quickly Isayama killed off Tyber. It had the least screen/panel time of any of the 8 Nonfounding Titans.

      Annie's Female Titan was rarely shown outside her own Arc, so we don't really know what it can do, although it's strength seems about equal with The Attack Titan. Here's hoping her titan joins the fold again, although if Annie awakens, whose side will she end up joining?

      Jaw is the 2nd Fastest of the Titans & it's speed makes it good for taking down titans. The Jaws bite being able to crack the titan crystal means The Armored Titan is probably no match for it. Then again Reiner has generally been a weak host for The Armor.

      Beast was said to be the weakest titan by Marley before Zeke took control of it & he's exceptional thanks to being of royal blood. Cart Titan is the fastest, however is the weakest without weapons & soldiers on its back to make it a real threat.

      Overall Founding > Colossal & War Hammer > Annie's Female & Attack > Jaw > Armored is my personal opinion on the rank of each of titan's shifter powers.

        Loading editor
    • WaterKirby1994 wrote:
      Colossal may be the most physically powerful titan, however it's also the slowest & it can't be used repeatedly in quick succession. I agree it seems to have the Tragic Personality. Still because of its glaring weaknesses discovered by Armin, I would have to say it's equal in potential to the WarHammer & truly surpassed only by the Founding Titan (without the will of Karl Fritz)

      Warhammer is easily the most versatile of the titans, unfortunately Eren isn't able to make full use of its abilities. Unfortunately we don't know much about its stats because of how quickly Isayama killed off Tyber. It had the least screen/panel time of any of the 8 Nonfounding Titans.

      Annie's Female Titan was rarely shown outside her own Arc, so we don't really know what it can do, although it's strength seems about equal with The Attack Titan. Here's hoping her titan joins the fold again, although if Annie awakens, whose side will she end up joining?

      Jaw is the 2nd Fastest of the Titans & it's speed makes it good for taking down titans. The Jaws bite being able to crack the titan crystal means The Armored Titan is probably no match for it. Then again Reiner has generally been a weak host for The Armor.

      Beast was said to be the weakest titan by Marley before Zeke took control of it & he's exceptional thanks to being of royal blood. Cart Titan is the fastest, however is the weakest without weapons & soldiers on its back to make it a real threat.

      Overall Founding > Colossal & War Hammer > Annie's Female & Attack > Jaw > Armored is my personal opinion on the rank of each of titan's shifter powers.

      Yea I've always thought in a straight up brawl that the War Hammer might be the Colossal Titan's hard counter based on what kind of structures we know it can build (complex long ranged weapons like bows) but I think that in terms of sheer body count the Colossal is the most powerful considering it is basically a walking nuke that can cripple a opposing force in seconds. I think the Armoured is at least on par with the Attack Titan because of its absurd regenerative powers (Reiner can regenerate from a head apparently) and strong defensive abilities but it looks weak because Reiner is probably the fourth worst shifter in terms of combat in the series after Ms. Tybur, Ymir, & Frieda Reiss respectively. I think if the Armour was given to a prodigy it would be just as dangerous as the Attack & Female Titans. I think overall I would say based on the abilities I would say from strongest to weakest Founder, Colossal, War Hammer, Armoured/Female/Attack tied, Beast, Jaw, and Cart. Based on known holders Eren, Annie, Pieck, Zeke, and Bert are the strongest based on how well they use their Titans.  To answer the question about Annie I think she would remain on team Marley as she values her father above anything else and Eren put his life in danger when he attacked Marley (I think he's fine but we haven't got confirmation yet) + the rumbling wouldn't be good for him so the Warriors would just need to use him as leverage and Annie would comply.

        Loading editor
    • I would have to agree with Cart Titan representing loyalty, & Jaw being the titan of self-sacrifice, while the Founder (because of Karl Fritz) represents Apathy & Pacifism, which Eren is fortunately immune to. I personally believe that it wasn't that Frieda Reiss was a weak Titan Shifter, more that she was screwed over by the inherited will of her titan. It seems quite likely that the Founding Titan itself is weak in a 1 on 1 fight without relying its true power. The command over all titans & memory altering abilities are where the Founding Titan's true strength lies.

      When it comes to raw power I agree with your ranking except for Founder for the reason listed above. Still you forget Speed is also a thing, which goes Cart > Jaw >>> Attack, Armor, & Female > Beast > Colossal. The Founding & War Hammer are more complicated to rank in terms of speed, although Warhammer seems about equal with Eren in terms of speed, however is limited in movement when using Tyber's technique of hiding underground. Founding Titan was only really seen in action once when Frieda & Grisha fought which makes it hard to rank. As well as that we may be giving Attack Titan too much credit as the only times we've seen it unfused with the Founder are during that fight & when Eren Kruger used it.

      Bertolt was also not that skilled as a Titan Shifter much like Reiner, with Annie clearly being the most skilled of the Warrior Trio. Armin is probably more skilled than Bertolt when it comes to using the Colossal thanks to his intelligence. I will say that Eren is the most skilled user of the Attack Titan that we know of & the current most powerful titan shifter, however he doesn't really have much skill at utilizing the WarHammer Titan or the Founding Titan. I have to agree that Pieck is probably 1 of the 3 most skilled titan shifters we've seen in action so far alongside Annie & the prodigy Zeke. Fortunately the Beast that Zeke inherited was 1 of the weaker titans. Had he gotten the WarHammer or Colossal Titans instead he would have been unstoppable.

      Annie's probably not getting out of that crystal except by means of The Rumbling. Personally I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing & can't just awaken some of the wall titans that are nearby to use them to defeat enemies. Back to the subject of Annie I would like to think it possible that Armin could have awakened her as a result of the memory sharing he did in Chapter 110 & that she could potentially arrive on Armin's side. There are currently 3 sides (Paradis, Yeagerists, & Marley) aren't there?

        Loading editor
    • WaterKirby1994 wrote:
      I would have to agree with Cart Titan representing loyalty, & Jaw being the titan of self-sacrifice, while the Founder (because of Karl Fritz) represents Apathy & Pacifism, which Eren is fortunately immune to. I personally believe that it wasn't that Frieda Reiss was a weak Titan Shifter, more that she was screwed over by the inherited will of her titan. It seems quite likely that the Founding Titan itself is weak in a 1 on 1 fight without relying its true power. The command over all titans & memory altering abilities are where the Founding Titan's true strength lies.

      When it comes to raw power I agree with your ranking except for Founder for the reason listed above. Still you forget Speed is also a thing, which goes Cart > Jaw >>> Attack, Armor, & Female > Beast > Colossal. The Founding & War Hammer are more complicated to rank in terms of speed, although Warhammer seems about equal with Eren in terms of speed, however is limited in movement when using Tyber's technique of hiding underground. Founding Titan was only really seen in action once when Frieda & Grisha fought which makes it hard to rank. As well as that we may be giving Attack Titan too much credit as the only times we've seen it unfused with the Founder are during that fight & when Eren Kruger used it.

      Bertolt was also not that skilled as a Titan Shifter much like Reiner, with Annie clearly being the most skilled of the Warrior Trio. Armin is probably more skilled than Bertolt when it comes to using the Colossal thanks to his intelligence. I will say that Eren is the most skilled user of the Attack Titan that we know of & the current most powerful titan shifter, however he doesn't really have much skill at utilizing the WarHammer Titan or the Founding Titan. I have to agree that Pieck is probably 1 of the 3 most skilled titan shifters we've seen in action so far alongside Annie & the prodigy Zeke. Fortunately the Beast that Zeke inherited was 1 of the weaker titans. Had he gotten the WarHammer or Colossal Titans instead he would have been unstoppable.

      Annie's probably not getting out of that crystal except by means of The Rumbling. Personally I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing & can't just awaken some of the wall titans that are nearby to use them to defeat enemies. Back to the subject of Annie I would like to think it possible that Armin could have awakened her as a result of the memory sharing he did in Chapter 110 & that she could potentially arrive on Armin's side. There are currently 3 sides (Paradis, Yeagerists, & Marley) aren't there?

      - Frieda is the weakest shifter as she would have lost against any of the other shifters seen in the series so far as the Founder is a incredible ability but with interference from Karl taking away that ability she was left with lacking combat abilities (Rod stated this as being the reason for her death).

      - Bert was considered a prodigy with that Titan from my memory with Magath or Reiner stating that he had excellent control of it even at the beginning of his term despite the titan being the hardest to control and in the series he used it pretty well with a solid understanding of the Titans capabilities (disappearing on a moments notice, creating fires, going boom, keeping opponents off him etc.) and showed excellent control of his abilities (in the Clash Of Titans arc he was the reason they won against Eren) and I think if he had stronger mental fortitude he would have been even better. Armin has only been seen using the explosion so its hard to say how good he is but I assume he's solid.

      - I think Zeke isn't let down by the Beast which is evidently still strong (long range artillery is always strong) but by how incredibly arrogant he is and how he refuses to evolve his tactics being caught off guard twice by Levi & Pieck and also failing to read or even comprehend Levi in that forest fight arrogantly thinking that using his troops against him would break Levi mentally when Levi sacrificed his best friend to defeat him the last time. Zeke pretty much embodies the idea of "Pride comes before the fall" (pretty interesting for a nihilist to also be prideful) and I think the War Hammer and Colossal would increase that problem tenfold as Zeke would probably end up expending his energy at a bad time (these titans require patience and strategy in my opinion). 

      - I always thought that Porco would have busted Annie out with the Jaw considering him and Pieck were spying around Paradis (with the chaos on the island it would be easy to find her) but since he's dead that would have to fall to the newly minted Falco. I think that Annie deeply respects Armin for his cunning nature but she wouldn't forsake her father for him and unless Paradis/Yeagerists convince her that her father will be protected she won't join them as she doesn't like Reiner or know Falco but Pieck is a pretty slick gal and I think if she survives the current fight she could easily re-recruit Annie to the Warrior's side (just mention the raid on liberio and jackpot). Of course the wildcard in this situation is whether Armin could leverage any potential Bert memories against her (Bert loved her and Annie seemed to have a better relationship with him than Reiner) but I think her father trumps all other relationships and feelings.

        Loading editor
    • I thought it was said that Bertolt was able to make use of the Colossal Titan immediately after obtaining it, & was under the assumption it was more that the Colossal was powerful than Bertolt himself. Although yeah Bertolt's lack of mental fortitude really hurt him & is part of why I wouldn't consider him a prodigy. The Beast Titan was considered not useful for combat before Zeke took control of it. I believe he could have adapted to half of the titan powers exceptionally because of his royal blood as that's suggested as what allows him to create the Moonlight Titans.

      If Zeke were the Colossal he would still be able to pitch the way he does as the Beast Titan ontop of smashing through the walls. He wouldn't need to disappear, he could just keep spreading chaos. My guess Zeke would be more likely to think the exploding & steam as powers he wouldn't really need to use much normally while in the form. Zeke would probably only explode if he was pissed. I admit you're correct about his arrogance holding him back more than The Beast Titan does. I'm just saying how much of a prodigy he is in general that he could have been a nearly unstoppable Colossal Titan. Maybe he wouldn't have been able to truly master the WarHammer because of his personality, although he still would have been able to use it better than Eren probably ever will & could have been better with it than the girl using it against Eren.

      It goes without saying that Zeke would have been at least 10x better at using the Armor than Reiner ever was. I agree that the WarHammer is the perfect counter for the Colossal Titan ability wise. Still I probably didn't give Bertolt enough credit as a titan shifter in my last comment. Still I would have to say that he's more of an average ability Titan Shifter based on what we've seen in the series thus far. You don't seem to give Frieda Reiss enough credit as a Titan Shifter though, as her being weak wasn't the result of her lack of experience/capability as a shifter rather the result of her titan being useless. She was able to make use of the memory manipulation while not in her titan form in a fairly limited way on her half-sister Historia.

      Annie always had a soft spot for Armin in the series, such as intentionally sparing him as the Female Titan. I agree that Pieck could rerecruit Annie easily enough if she mentions the raid on Liberio. That's why I asked what side she would be on earlier if she returned, although its obvious she wouldn't side with the Yeagerists, as she would probably see Eren & Zeke as her main enemies because of the rumbling. Supposedly the series is likely headed for 2 things, the use of the Founding Titan's power & all 9 Titan Powers being at the same location. The series only will last another 11 months at most I'm guessing at this point.

        Loading editor
    • - The thing about Frieda is that she owned the strongest Titan but she was ultimately a sheltered noble rather than someone trained in the Warrior program or the military of the walls. I just think based on her losing to a relatively normal guy who barely used his powers she wouldn't stand a chance against any of the other shifters we've seen in action as Tybur would overwhelm her quickly (weak discipline but had some training it appears) and Ymir is fast enough to score a kill before Frieda could catch her and those are #3 and #2 weakest on the strength chart. At the end of the day without its special abilties the founder is just a normal titan and in that regard it comes down to the host to make the difference which Frieda didn't possess anything that could considered a difference maker (Eren beat Reiner for example by using grapples in Clash).

      - What made Bert a strong shifter IMO is that he had A+ management skills (a big requirement for this Titan) as he managed to keep the Survey Corp pinned in RTS and Clash with his steam (even being smart enough to start an inferno to entrap them in the former) and also mastered the ability to form and dissolve his titan with sharp efficency (used to devasting effect in Clash to defeat Eren) that's just my interpretation though as to why he was good with the Colossal. 

      - I guess to expand on the Annie conversation if Armin turned on Eren I could see Annie joining with him simply to stop the rumbling but I think this late in the game Armin has to be firmly on team Eren as he doesn't really have any choice. 

      - I think Eren is a fine War Hammer user so far as he did use it pretty well in this fight (F for creativity, B+ for effectiveness) and he realistically won't be able to use all its abilities by the end of the series but I think if he had a few more years he would be better than Tybur as the man has improved spectacularly over the last 4 years with the relatively basic Attack Titan to the point that he has beaten nearly every titan at least once. 

        Loading editor
    • I'm saying the Founding Titan may very well be both the strongest & weakest of the 9 Titans. The inherited will in effect makes the Founding Titan the weakest, as the overpowered abilities that would make it the strongest titan are inaccessable. I would guess Frieda was probably the better shifter than Grisha, however she was stuck with a weak titan because of Karl Fritz vowing pacifism. I would list Frieda's ability as a Titan Shifter as likely surpassing Eren's during the Female Titan arc, although along with Uri Reiss she was screwed over.

      War Hammer is pretty much the 2nd Strongest, of course Tybur would have won easily against Frieda. Uri wouldn't have done any better, & would have also been defeated by most titan shifters. I agree that Eren would be able to greatly surpass Tybur if given another year to get better with the WarHammer. Eren would probably be the 4th best Titan Shifter known to us in the series, although he's possibly managed to surpass Annie & Pieck in terms of shifter skills by now.

      Bertolt in terms of shifter skill I would have to rank as at least 6th as Armin has surpassed him over the 4 years following eating him. As for Armin, I think he's on the side of Paradis rather than the Yeagerists, as he doesn't want the rumbling to happen, however he wants to help Eren as well. Annie probably isn't going to arrive until the wall titans are awake if she does arrive at the battlefield before this is all over.

        Loading editor
    • WaterKirby1994 wrote:
      I'm saying the Founding Titan may very well be both the strongest & weakest of the 9 Titans. The inherited will in effect makes the Founding Titan the weakest, as the overpowered abilities that would make it the strongest titan are inaccessable. I would guess Frieda was probably the better shifter than Grisha, however she was stuck with a weak titan because of Karl Fritz vowing pacifism. I would list Frieda's ability as a Titan Shifter as likely surpassing Eren's during the Female Titan arc, although along with Uri Reiss she was screwed over.

      War Hammer is pretty much the 2nd Strongest, of course Tybur would have won easily against Frieda. Uri wouldn't have done any better, & would have also been defeated by most titan shifters. I agree that Eren would be able to greatly surpass Tybur if given another year to get better with the WarHammer. Eren would probably be the 4th best Titan Shifter known to us in the series, although he's possibly managed to surpass Annie & Pieck in terms of shifter skills by now.

      Bertolt in terms of shifter skill I would have to rank as at least 6th as Armin has surpassed him over the 4 years following eating him. As for Armin, I think he's on the side of Paradis rather than the Yeagerists, as he doesn't want the rumbling to happen, however he wants to help Eren as well. Annie probably isn't going to arrive until the wall titans are awake if she does arrive at the battlefield before this is all over.

      I already feel like I said everything I wanted to say about the topic of Shifter strength so I'll leave it be as I think I'll just end up repeating myself. On the other hand I will talk a little about my feelings about the Yeagerists/Paradis. I don't think the Yeagerists are a real faction as they are more manipulated pawns meant to help the Yeager bros meet each other. I don't think the Yeagerists even know what Zeke or Eren wants and are just a easily manipulated group of ultra nationalists that are treated as disposable by both Zeke & Eren. I believe the real factions are Paradis, Marley, and Zeke (which includes Hizuru + Yelena and her partners) and Armin/Eren are firmly on the side of Paradis (Eren in a indirect and vague way).  Armin realizes that with Marley's arrival (and soon the world) he has to help Eren/Zeke as he doesn't have much of a choice because these two are the only way to win the battle at hand. Its a tough choice for him as the rumbling could potentially cause mass devastation but survival trumps morality in conflicts like this and eventually every one has to pick a side which is something that Armin eventually came to terms with. 

        Loading editor
    • I realized that there are more than a few themes related to brothers and sacrifice in this chapter. Sorry if this was already mentioned above.

      I realized that there are three pairs of brothers in this chapter: Marcel and Porco, Colt and Falco, and Eren and Zeke. First off, Colt holds Falco close to comfort him as he transforms into a Titan, knowing the explosive energy and shockwave will kill him. Porco sacrifices himself, having been injured so much that he can't regenerate, to save Falco, now knowing that his brother confirmed (via memories) that Porco was always better than Reiner. Finally, Zeke, who also seems to be mortally wounded, and Eren, who has been shot in the head (as a Titan) more than enough, risk it all for each other and the goddamn plan. In the process, he gets decapitated (and I'm pretty sure his brain is still conscious) by a high-powered rifle shot to the neck, sending his head hurtling towards Zeke's outstretched hand.

      I don't know if there's a single word and precise theme that describes the pattern here, but there is a pattern, which I personally find interesting. One set of brothers clings to each other as another pair of brothers (I consider Eren more or less complicit in this act) sacrifices them, killing one in the process and turning the other into a monster. The surviving half of a third pair of brothers lays down his life to save the remaining half of the first set. Lastly, the second pair tries to fulfill their destiny before one brother is (more or less) fatally injured by plot armor (GABI!).

      Putting Porco and Marcel aside, let's focus on the Yeagers and the Grices. The older brother of one duo (Zeke) who is responsible for the death of the other pair's older brother (Colt) and the transformation of the little brother (Falco). He pays for this by being crippled and quite possibly losing his younger brother (Eren) to decapitation. The older Yeager survives and the younger Grice survives.

      One half pays the price for destroying the bond of a whole by losing his other half. It feels like some sort of massive metaphor to me. Maybe it's inspired from story in a religion or mythos.

      Beats me!

        Loading editor
    • Verytallfox wrote:
      I realized that there are more than a few themes related to brothers and sacrifice in this chapter. Sorry if this was already mentioned above.

      I realized that there are three pairs of brothers in this chapter: Marcel and Porco, Colt and Falco, and Eren and Zeke. First off, Colt holds Falco close to comfort him as he transforms into a Titan, knowing the explosive energy and shockwave will kill him. Porco sacrifices himself, having been injured so much that he can't regenerate, to save Falco, now knowing that his brother confirmed (via memories) that Porco was always better than Reiner. Finally, Zeke, who also seems to be mortally wounded, and Eren, who has been shot in the head (as a Titan) more than enough, risk it all for each other and the goddamn plan. In the process, he gets decapitated (and I'm pretty sure his brain is still conscious) by a high-powered rifle shot to the neck, sending his head hurtling towards Zeke's outstretched hand.

      I don't know if there's a single word and precise theme that describes the pattern here, but there is a pattern, which I personally find interesting. One set of brothers clings to each other as another pair of brothers (I consider Eren more or less complicit in this act) sacrifices them, killing one in the process and turning the other into a monster. The surviving half of a third pair of brothers lays down his life to save the remaining half of the first set. Lastly, the second pair tries to fulfill their destiny before one brother is (more or less) fatally injured by plot armor (GABI!).

      Putting Porco and Marcel aside, let's focus on the Yeagers and the Grices. The older brother of one duo (Zeke) who is responsible for the death of the other pair's older brother (Colt) and the transformation of the little brother (Falco). He pays for this by being crippled and quite possibly losing his younger brother (Eren) to decapitation. The older Yeager survives and the younger Grice survives.

      One half pays the price for destroying the bond of a whole by losing his other half. It feels like some sort of massive metaphor to me. Maybe it's inspired from story in a religion or mythos.

      Beats me!

      Interesting

        Loading editor
    • The themes mentioned above can be from any number of religions or myths but after some thought they match Norse stylings the best as sacrifice (Ex. a recurring theme in this mythological set with sacrifices for love, knowledge, and duty all occuring), brotherhood (Ex. every god seems to have a equally important sibling), and fate (Ex. Ragnarok) are core tenets of that mythology and all these themes either appear in this chapter or in the series at large but I'm not a big enough buff on Norse mythology to say much else from a thematic point of view. To further back up the series nordic roots are visual identifiers like the Titans looking like trolls & Jotnar (giants) rather than Greek Titans, old Eldian woodcuts having them wearing Viking like armour vs Marley's Roman look (I have a creeping suspicion that Marley is a composite of Italy and Germany with the Italian side being dominant), and Paths looking visually similar to the Yggradsil. Of course the biggest hint though is that Ymir Fritz shares a name with the progenitor of the Jotnar, Ymir. I definitely feel comfortable in saying that the series traces back to Norse mythology but what story this chapter derives from is something I can't clarify and if someone has a answer feel free to answer.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.