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    • Welp, someone has to start posting in this here chat. It might as well be me.

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    • LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!! 

      ...I'll see myself out.

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    • PlasmaCutterPHD
      PlasmaCutterPHD removed this reply because:
      accidental double post
      23:29, October 8, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Oh...my...Ymir. It is finally happening. Behold and witness the power of the RUMBLING!!!

      We get to see the Origins of Ymir and how she became to what she is now and man it is really tragic. She was just a slave girl of a little Eldian tribespeople. Then she became a scapesgoat and hunted. Even when she was given new powers from inside a tree that looked like a spine? All she was to be subservient to her king and do whatever he said, and give birth to three daughters. When she died all she was seen as a tool by the king (god the first King of Eldia was a real d*ckhead) and then had his daughters eat Ymir's flesh to gain Titan powers that later become the Nine Titans. She was in her spirit realm creating more Titans (or that what it seemed?).

      However, all she really wanted was a friend, someone to care for her. Hence no more listening to the Royal family ( same goes to you Zeke) but listening to someone who wants the same thing: to be free!

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    • It's a parasite. Probably. The tree spine thing. I also heard theories that suggested it was a representation of Nidhogg from Norse mythology.

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    • Each month I keep asking myself how Isayama can possibly outdo himself again and each month I'm left completely in awe. Once again, I have a new favorite chapter.

      This one drew heavily on Norse lore (the tree and the creature inside), showed us that the Eldians are based off of the ancient Germanic tribes and the Marleyans off of the ancient Latin ones, and finally showed us what really happened in the life of the founder, Ymir.

      I had a theory since the release of season 2 that the three girls feasting on the corpse with the king standing behind them would be Maria, Rose, and Sheena, and that they were potentially the daughters of Ymir. Looks like I was correct.

      Fabulous chapter.

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    • Well, the world is about to come to an end. It looks like Ymir Fritz's origins have finally been revealed, and my god, they were even sadder than I thought. That king is the true villain of the entire Attack on Titan franchise that put the entire series into motion, and he really is a despicable monster, forcing his daughters to consume their mother. However, something that isn't explained very well is one: how did Ymir die? Was it because the king chose to kill her and have his daughters feast on her flesh? Was 13 years already the time limit, and her body couldn't hold that power anymore? Could it be some sort of sickness that Titan powers can't heal? Or was she so grievously injured from another incident that her regeneration couldn't make up for it?

      Now, something else that wasn't properly explained in this chapter is how Ymir's soul was split into nine titans. Like why did this happen? I think it's cool that Ymir's daughters are the names of the three walls, but does that mean each of them gained a different titan shifter ability? Did Ymir's soul just randomly go out to 8 other people, and if eating their mother's flesh did anything, which of the daughters got the Founding Titan? 

      Regarding the source of Ymir's power, I find it somewhat odd that this tree is what gave birth to Titans, although it could be interpreted as the "roots" that spread and correlates to the concept of paths the Founding Titan controls. I hope that this tree is brought up again, or it's still alive perhaps. 

      And for the final scene that the entire show has been hinging on once it was realized that titans made up the walls, my god! What is going to happen? Is Eren going to do what the Marleyan Empire feared and squash the entire world? I can't wait to find out!

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    • CiscoTheSoto wrote: Well, the world is about to come to an end. It looks like Ymir Fritz's origins have finally been revealed, and my god, they were even sadder than I thought. That king is the true villain of the entire Attack on Titan franchise that put the entire series into motion, and he really is a despicable monster, forcing his daughters to consume their mother. However, something that isn't explained very well is one: how did Ymir die? Was it because the king chose to kill her and have his daughters feast on her flesh? Was 13 years already the time limit, and her body couldn't hold that power anymore? Could it be some sort of sickness that Titan powers can't heal? Or was she so grievously injured from another incident that her regeneration couldn't make up for it?

      My theory is that she lost the will to live and it's also possible that her time as a shifter was coming to an end and she knew that. And yeah, screw King Fritz. He was a complete POS and deserved to die a dog's death.

      CiscoTheSoto wrote: Now, something else that wasn't properly explained in this chapter is how Ymir's soul was split into nine titans. Like why did this happen? I think it's cool that Ymir's daughters are the names of the three walls, but does that mean each of them gained a different titan shifter ability? Did Ymir's soul just randomly go out to 8 other people, and if eating their mother's flesh did anything, which of the daughters got the Founding Titan?

      My thought is that her powers divided into three when she was eaten by her daughters and then it split again when the three of them died. Why it stopped dividing at nine, only Isayama knows.

      CiscoTheSoto wrote: Regarding the source of Ymir's power, I find it somewhat odd that this tree is what gave birth to Titans, although it could be interpreted as the "roots" that spread and correlates to the concept of paths the Founding Titan controls. I hope that this tree is brought up again, or it's still alive perhaps.

      The tree is based off of Yggdrasil from Norse mythology. It's also called the World Tree, and it holds the nine realms together. In the roots of the tree lives a dragon known as Níðhöggr, which is represented by the creature that attached itself to Ymir and gave her the power. Níðhöggr ends up aiding the giants during Ragnarök in their fight against the gods. Sound a bit familiar?

      CiscoTheSoto wrote: And for the final scene that the entire show has been hinging on once it was realized that titans made up the walls, my god! What is going to happen? Is Eren going to do what the Marleyan Empire feared and squash the entire world? I can't wait to find out!

      To borrow a quote from Doctor Strange: we're in the endgame now.

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    • Well, I didn't think Isayma would be able to outdo himself after the last chapter, but lo and behold, I was wrong.

      There have been many attempted explanations for the spinal cord thing that attached itself to Ymir; I'd like to throw my two cents in. Basically, the source of Ymir's power is the one Kruger believed was most likely to be true, where she came into contact with the "source of all organic matter". However, this infinite source does not exist in the same dimension (or realm, if you'd prefer) as Ymir's and Eren's, but in a separate realm, where time flows differently. In other words, the Paths Realm is the source of all organic matter; the very sand that she uses to build the Titans and heal shifter injuries. I believe what she came into contact with was but a small physical manifestation of that realm in Ymir's world. When she merged with it, not only did she gain control of that inexhaustabile amount of organic matter, but the realm became an extension of Ymir herself.

      Initially, like most I imagine, I believed that when she gained the power of the Titans, she could exert her powers on all Eldians due to no other connection than ethnicity, which, honestly, I found a little weird. However, this chapter pretty much shows that Ymir could only exercise that power on herself or her blood, as we saw when the coordinate first appeared with three protruding branches after her daughters ate her corpse. All Subjects of Ymir are related to her by blood, so why does the royal family specifically have so much power over her? Easy. It gets down to two things.

      One, Ymir's slavery mentality is so deeply entrenched into her that, even after death, she could not escape it. She didn't know anything else, even though she was suffering.

      Two, I said "royal family", not "royal blood". It's about status and authority. Though all her subects are genetically her descendants, the royal family is like the central authority, the one she acknowledges they have, for they are a continuation of the first Eldian King's will and power; the very person she'd shown absolute obedience and submissiveness too. I'd already said that all her subjects exerted varying levels of control over her, but that's because all other Eldians are an extension of the royal family's (and the first king's) power and domain, plus the fact that, in life, she'd served the Eldians almost as much as she did the king. All her actions were for the benefit of the tribe-turned-empire.

      This also proves that all the powers shifters possess, they possess indirectly. Ymir's grants them whatever they wish, as long as it's within their specific Titan form's limits and abilities.

      It's a very satisfying twist that all accounts of history are predominantly correct. She came into contact with the source of all organic energy, and, in a sense, she made a deal with a devil, that being the first Eldian King, doubtlessly the most vile, despicable, power-hungry character in all of AoT (and that's saying something). Another thing of note is the usage of the apple whenever Ymir is depicted making the deal with the Devil of all Earth, which is often a symbolism for sex and fertility, which is, again, true since the king 'rewarded' her by making her bear his children.

      I was also glad how Isayama decided to use the scene of Frieda and Historia talking about what it means to be 'ladylike', immediately cutting into Ymir's life of blind obedience after that. It's been done before in AoT, but I believe this is again Isayama pretty much telling us that, if your desire to help others is without bounds, you're most likely not of the healthiest mentality. He's basically telling us that altruism, while fundamentally positive, should know limits, like anything else. So many other manga and anime espouse it to the point that the lesson boils down to "the only things worth doing are the things you do for others", but Isayama's like, "to hell with that. Are you crazy?!"

      Like Ymir (Historia's hetero-sexual life partner *wink wink*) said, you should live your life with pride, and that means being unafraid to do things for yourself. Isayma doesn't say that kindness and altruism are wrong. Many of the heroes' actions are done for the sake of a collective good, after all. He's only saying that, past a certain point, parts of your mentality focused on thinking about others are there at the heavy expense of your self-pride, identity, and preservation. Or, like in Historia's case and partly original Ymir's, you're doing it because it's the only way you know to affirm your existence, since you hate yorself so much, self-confidence and pride are pretty much out the window. However, despite how sunny and good (*ugh*) it appears superficially, it's a terrible and extremely self-harmful thing to base your sense of identity off of, and you most likely have it cause you've seen and experienced some crap in your life and you haven't yet got over it.

      The use of old Germanic and Viking clothing for Eldians and Roman garments of Marleyans was a pleasant surprise. Kinda makes sense, since the Roman empire stretched along the Mediterranean coast and the sea is a common theme with Marley. Most people tend to compare Marleyans with the Nazis, but I can't helpbut disagree. Sure, I get why, but you got to remember what Udo said; other nations treat Eldians even worse than Marleyans do, and they all no doubt use the same system of selecting them out with armbands or whatever. Personally, due to the constant sea theme as well as the time period compared to our own, I've recently likened Marley more to the aforementioned Roman and the British Empire, especially after seeing the description of Marley's territory being likened to the latter empire in size. When we think colonization, what country could come to mind first but Britain?

      All in all, excellent chapter, and I'm equally as hyped for the next one as I was for 122.

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    • There will be no cons as this chapter took the series biggest mystery and turned it into a brilliant chapter that effortlessly blended themes, myth, and character into a nigh perfect brew.

      Pros:

      - The biggest thing I loved about the chapter was how minimalistic it was as it effortlessly communicated Ymir's entire story with no line of dialogue from the woman herself which was A.) an excellent way of reflecting her slave mentality and B.) made sure the entire chapter ran at a crisp pace and could effortlessly cover 13 years.  It was refreshing to simply read a story without being suffocated under a mountain of lore and jargon and it made the chapter stronger as a whole. A+ job by Isayama here. 

      - Another thing I loved is how the chapter proved both Eldia and Marley right and wrong at the same time. Helos was a real man who killed the mightest titan (Ymir) but he was long dead by the time of the great titan war. Ymir was simultaneously the angel Eldia revered her as and the devil Marley feared but ironically enough neither of these actions were of her own will but King Fritz pupptering her actions. This was a brilliant way of reinforcing the murkiness of history and how for such an important figure in history no one ever truly knew who Ymir was till Eren.

      - I also found Ymir's story really well told in general as it was quite touching and a unique take on the mortal gains godlike power story that is so popular across all mediums. Usually when someone gains power in these types of story they become more inhuman either in form or personality as a price for acquiring power and start acting purely on what they believe is best (for themselves, society etc.) even at the expense of others (Ex. The Master from Fallout). What I find fascinating about Ymir is that she is a complete subversion of individuals like the Master as she is an individual who gained ultimate power but never used that against the people who harmed her, for her own ego, or even selflessly for others instead being an individual who started out less than human and never escaped that lack of identity. I have to admit it was ballsy choice to go with this as I assumed a couple of chapters ago that her current slave like disposition was the result of a type of Faustian bargain but instead making her a slave since her youth and still mentally one resulted in something I've never seen before across movies, games, or tv which is incredibly impressive. I do think though with the revelations in this chapter the Ymir reborn ending has shot up significantly and is something I would greatly enjoy as a proper ending.

      - The ending was just fantastic and the fact that I can't tell if Eren is going to go full psycho and squash the world in a act that would make even Ozy from Watchmen go chill dude or he's just going to merely kill the world's army is pretty great.  

      Other Thoughts:

      - About our friendly neighbourhood spine I have to admit I really don't mind if we never know about its complete origins as not everything needs a reasonable explanation like for all I know it's a elder thing (to be honest the first thing I thought about when I saw it was Bloodborne) or it arrived on a meteorite and seeded all life. Any of those answers are cool by me and I'm satisfied with the answers given in the chapter.

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    • So we finally gonna get back to this war? Because yeah that didn't really impress me XD

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    • The reveal of that spine creature has definitely piqued my interest; I would love to know how it thinks.  Also, at first I thought the creature was the Earth Devil itself in the flesh, but someone also made the point that the Devil is actually that king.  Speaking of whom, that king seems like complete trash; no wonder Karl Fritz became so guilty of Eldia's existence.

      The spine tree also raises a question about Zeke's sterilization plan; would he also have to kill the creature in order to forever erase the Titan threat from the world?

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    • I like that this chapter proved that Ymir was neither the godlike leader modern Eldians expected her to be, nor the monster of Marleyan history. She was just a hapless woman who grew up a slave and never thought that she could have a choice in her life. I expected the truth would be different from both Eldian and Marlayan propaganda, though it's rather depressing that it boils down to ancient Eldians are jerks too. All this time her descendants were ordering her around just like OG Fritz and finally Eren comes in as the first person who wants to treat her as an actual human being. No wonder she starts crying.

      Since the rumbling starts, and the one thing Eren was pushing her to do was make her own choice, does that mean she's starting the rumbling out of her own free will? And if so, what does she want?

      She doesn't seem particularly thrilled by her own children (considering that she wasn't asked whether or not she wanted to have them, I'm not surprised) so I doubt she has a great affection for saving the country her oppressor built up to rule the world. I could see her just wanting the fighting to stop though.

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    • Did Eren awake just the Colossals around Shiganshina or the entirety of the three walls? Because it was mentioned that the Colossals in Shiganshina alone would lay waste to anything in their path.

      Also is it Gabi's time to just DIE already? XD

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Did Eren awake just the Colossals around Shiganshina or the entirety of the three walls? Because it was mentioned that the Colossals in Shiganshina alone would lay waste to anything in their path.

      Also is it Gabi's time to just DIE already? XD

      Considering it was Ymir that released them, I think she did it for every Titan of the three walls. Here, I don't think she is aware of the "little" rumbling, and even if she was, it's clearly not just a demonstration she made so...

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    • I really like this chapter. I won't extend myself on the reasons, that have been evocated before. 

      After reading the chapter, I was like "God thanks you Isayama, you just destroyed the theory I hated the most (aka Eren being the Demon of All Earth/The Demon of All Earth being an actual demon).". So, about this source of all living matter (this is only a name given by the Research Society and Kruger, so we don't know if that thing deserves this name or not), I've seen lots of people saying it looks like hallucigenia , a Cambrian worm. I don't know if it's voluntary by Isayama or if it's only supposed to look like a spine (which was my first impression when I saw it). Also, we've got the answer about why the spine is so important for the Titans-related stuff, I wasn't expecting an answer to this, so it's pretty cool. Also, it was really cool to see the first shifters. And, how big is Ymir's Titan??

      Also, it seems that Ymir wasn't born as a member of the Eldian tribe. How ironic that would be if she was born in a Marleyan village! Ymir, a demon to the eyes of the Marleyans, was a Marleyan, Ymir, a goddess to the eyes of the Eldians, was a Marleyan! Yes we don't have any confirmation about this, but how beautiful that would be.

      However, this chapter raises a few questions. How were the pure Titans created for the first time? How the subjects of Ymir happened to be suddenly linked to the Coordinate? Because it's still a bit confusing. If they were all Ymir's descendants (I mean blood-related here), then they would all be "royal"-blooded? Before this chapter, I thought that when Ymir gained her powers, all of her people were suddenly linked to the Coordinate, making them subjects of Ymir. But now... And how were the 9 shifters created? Is it as someone said before, Maria Rose and Sina were eaten by 3 persons, making 3x3=9 Titans, or is it as the ending of season 2 says: six other people eating Ymir's body (and the three daughters of course). Because we saw people behind the King in chapter 122 when he told them to eat Ymir, but hard to tell if they were eating too. 

      There is a little thing I don't like with this chapter, but it's really a detail: this chapter implies that for 2000 years (before the Great Titan War), Eldia has ALWAYS been conquering, waging war. But if that was the case, as Kruger said, Marley wouldn't be still there. As we saw with Hizuru, sometimes Eldia went for peaceful ways, and probably has known other alliances.   

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    • Who is this guy kissing Historia?

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    • Razzylada wrote: However, this chapter raises a few questions. How were the pure Titans created for the first time? How the subjects of Ymir happened to be suddenly linked to the Coordinate? Because it's still a bit confusing. If they were all Ymir's descendants (I mean blood-related here), then they would all be "royal"-blooded? Before this chapter, I thought that when Ymir gained her powers, all of her people were suddenly linked to the Coordinate, making them subjects of Ymir. But now... And how were the 9 shifters created? Is it as someone said before, Maria Rose and Sina were eaten by 3 persons, making 3x3=9 Titans, or is it as the ending of season 2 says: six other people eating Ymir's body (and the three daughters of course). Because we saw people behind the King in chapter 122 when he told them to eat Ymir, but hard to tell if they were eating too.  

      If other people ate Ymir and some of her power transferred to them, that would be a good way to separate the royal family from other Subjects of Ymir, because as you mentioned, if all Subjects of Ymir are her descendants, they'd all be part of the royal family. If they ate her without having a blood relation, it might explain why it's in a diluted form unable to use the full power of the Founding Titan.

      I'm guessing the Pure Titans must have come later since we've only seen them created through injections. I don't know how someone discovered that, but they wouldn't have had the tech to do that during Ymir's time.

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    • Man oh man, this is a chapter I've been waiting for for a long time and OH BOY is it great!!!

      Ymir all along was just some slave girl from a random village, only for that village to be hunted down and slaughtered by a tribe called.... Eldia!  Eldia at first was just a small tribe, very interesting seeing the roots of a once gigantic nation being just a very small and barbarak tribe.  Then came Ymir, who set the pigs free, released by the King, hunted down by men, fell into a tree with an ancient creature inside, and BOOM came the first Titan!  The only question is..... WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T YMIR KILL THE KING???!!!  I really want to know what happened after Ymir transformed.  Did she just go back to the king and say 'Hey, I have the power to turn into a giant, but I'm not gonna kill this entire tribe, instead I'm gonna be your slave again.'  But none the less it's clear she was awarded with extreme wealth, judging by her clothes and bearing the kings children (which for that time in Monarchy is kind of a big deal), for fighting for Eldia, so maybe that is why she chose to go back?  I mean she even DIED for the King after what he did to her vilage.  

      This chapter also gave me a question no one else has asked

      What the hell did Maria, Rose, and Sina's Titans look like??? 

      And more importantly, WE STILL DON'T KNOW THE ORIGINS OF PURE TITANS AND WHY THEY EAT PEOPLE!  Can only Ymir's descendants transform into Titans?  Which if true, then why is the FT limited to those with royal blood if it's been spread out through all of the Eldians, assuming they are all descendands of Ymir? 

      Overall, amazing chapter!  Attack on Titan deserves to be anime of the decade

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    • Legit questions, interesting revelations but guys.......try to control yourselves, you're sounding like Tumblr. XP

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    • Amazing chapter. One of the manga's best in my opinion.

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    • It was better than 121 that's for sure, no time travel crap here. XD And it was short, LOL

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    • Oh one more thing, sad reveal but... Marley was right about Eldia :(

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    • But they're still dead wrong about any Eldian who isn't Eren or Floch as far as the people of modern-day Paradis are concerned. If it makes any one feel better, they're ALL wretched hives of scum. XP Only thing that's gonna end this shit is breaking that curse.

      So we finally have an explanation on how the Titans first emerged...…...Cool. Though I don't get where that water spine monster came from.

      Honestly I am very ho-hum about the stuff from 2000 years ago. Like I said, I don't take this stuff very seriously. Just eager for the story to get moving along. When it drags, it drags.

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    • Marco1995mega wrote:
      Initially, like most I imagine, I believed that when she gained the power of the Titans, she could exert her powers on all Eldians due to no other connection than ethnicity, which, honestly, I found a little weird. However, this chapter pretty much shows that Ymir could only exercise that power on herself or her blood, as we saw when the coordinate first appeared with three protruding branches after her daughters ate her corpse. All Subjects of Ymir are related to her by blood, so why does the royal family specifically have so much power over her? Easy. It gets down to two things.

      I think you're misinterpreting the branches of the thing in Ymir's world. My impression is it doesn't represent Ymir's family tree, but the lineage of titan inheritence. We didn't see it until her daughters had already eaten her. I think before that it would have been just a single column.

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    • CiscoTheSoto wrote:
      However, something that isn't explained very well is one: how did Ymir die? Was it because the king chose to kill her and have his daughters feast on her flesh? Was 13 years already the time limit, and her body couldn't hold that power anymore? Could it be some sort of sickness that Titan powers can't heal? Or was she so grievously injured from another incident that her regeneration couldn't make up for it?

      I think either it was the curse of Ymir, or she simply lost the will to live (after a life of slavery and now being a mass murderer too), and didn't regenerate. Like what happened to Reiner. It's always been shown that the power of the titans doesn't work if you don't have the will or desire.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Marco1995mega wrote:
      Initially, like most I imagine, I believed that when she gained the power of the Titans, she could exert her powers on all Eldians due to no other connection than ethnicity, which, honestly, I found a little weird. However, this chapter pretty much shows that Ymir could only exercise that power on herself or her blood, as we saw when the coordinate first appeared with three protruding branches after her daughters ate her corpse. All Subjects of Ymir are related to her by blood, so why does the royal family specifically have so much power over her? Easy. It gets down to two things.
      I think you're misinterpreting the branches of the thing in Ymir's world. My impression is it doesn't represent Ymir's family tree, but the lineage of titan inheritence. We didn't see it until her daughters had already eaten her. I think before that it would have been just a single column.

      All three of her daughters probably injested bits of her spinal fluid, which is the basis for Titan abilities. It is likely that, from that point forward, the ability to become Titans became genetic, and the descendants of the three daughters (and thus, Ymir) all had the capacity for Titan powers. Of course, Titan powers are still acquired via spinal fluid, but what singles out Subjects of Ymir is that they all have the biological predisposition to be able to acquire them. A Marleyan can drink Titan spinal fluid but won't transform, because he doesn't have the capacity for it embedded in his DNA. He's not Ymir's descendant.

      There have been several other theories about this, but I still maintain that all Subjects of Ymir are genetically related to her, and the blood doesn't 'thin out' or anything. It's about status. Ymir acknowledges the name Fritz, she acknowledges that they're a continuation of her master, the First King, and thus, acknowledges their authority and slaves away for them. Of course, she serves other Subjects, though to a more limited capacity, giving them Titan forms if injected with Titan spinal fluid. She probably believes that, if one of her subjects has found themselves with Titan fluid in their bodies, they want to become a Titan. Shifters have more power over her, getting their injuries healed, and being able to transform whenever they want to. Their will is also more easily interpreted by her, since Reiner didn't heal when he was suicidal, and so she heeded his wishes.

      The reason why only the royal family can use the Founder is because Ymir acknowledges only them as being allowed to have that ultimate power. It's pretty much proven in this chapter, that it's dependant on Ymir's will.  When Eren convinces her to give him the power, he, presumably (highly likely), got all the powers of the Founder, because Ymir decided he will have them. And he wasn't royal family or anything. Zeke initially had power over her because, while he had the Yeager name, he was still a descendant of the royal family, something he was aware of and acknowledged, and Ymir could read it via the Paths. 

      Royalty isn't a blood thing, it's a status thing.

      And yet, when Ymir decided not to go through with his orders, she didn't. It wasn't something pre-programmed like a machine.

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    • My input: Not surprised at all with the rumbling, forgot to post that Erin had founder eyes in the last chapter. Still a great chapter due to the backstory.

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    • Marco1995mega wrote: Royalty isn't a blood thing, it's a status thing.

      This doesn't make sense to me. Zeke never lived like royalty. His royal blood gives him no special standing in society. In fact Marley didn't even know he had royal blood. Why is he considered 'more royal' than any other subject of Ymir if it's to do with status rather than blood, since they're all descended from her?

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:

      Marco1995mega wrote: Royalty isn't a blood thing, it's a status thing.

      This doesn't make sense to me. Zeke never lived like royalty. His royal blood gives him no special standing in society. In fact Marley didn't even know he had royal blood. Why is he considered 'more royal' than any other subject of Ymir if it's to do with status rather than blood, since they're all descended from her?

      Because he comes from a more direct bloodline rather than the normal one.

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    • Is anyone planning on officially writing about the spine thing? It's the "source of all living matter"/"organic material"/"Devil of All Earth".

      Also, that thing is like a parasite. It lives on through spinal fluid and interdimensional paths connected to people. It needs people (Subjects of Ymir) to keep carrying and passing it along from generation to generation.

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    • If the Subjects of Ymir die, the spine thing (or coordinate or paths) goes with them. At least, it seems that way.

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    • Verytallfox wrote:
      Is anyone planning on officially writing about the spine thing? It's the "source of all living matter"/"organic material"/"Devil of All Earth".

      Also, that thing is like a parasite. It lives on through spinal fluid and interdimensional paths connected to people. It needs people (Subjects of Ymir) to keep carrying and passing it along from generation to generation.

      Saying it is a parasyte isn't wrong; in fact, it has the appearance and many elements of one. I've already written closer to the top of the page that I belive that the spine thing is just a physical manifestation of the Source of All Organic Matter - the Paths Realm - in the real world. The inexhaustible source of organic matter exists in a separate dimension, but can be transported to the normal realm via a host, which became Ymir. She is a "path" for it to come to her world. Furthermore, I also expressed my belief that the Paths Realm became an extension of Ymir herself. The coordinate and the "paths" are basically mental, semi-physical links of all people genetically related to Ymir, and she's the only one who has direct control of the realm. All others can only exercise power through her.

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    • Whalordius TDD wrote:

      TKGriffiths wrote:

      Marco1995mega wrote: Royalty isn't a blood thing, it's a status thing.

      This doesn't make sense to me. Zeke never lived like royalty. His royal blood gives him no special standing in society. In fact Marley didn't even know he had royal blood. Why is he considered 'more royal' than any other subject of Ymir if it's to do with status rather than blood, since they're all descended from her?

      Because he comes from a more direct bloodline rather than the normal one.

      Yeah, pretty much that. It's not so much about official status, though it does play a part. Ymir served the First King because he'd officially been the monarch, or chieftain before that.

      A lot of it depends on Ymir's own acknowledgment of the individual. What mattered was that Zeke was a direct descendant of the royal family, the family that had officially ruled Eldia. It doesn't matter that Marley didn't treat him like royalty. To Ymir, Zeke was but the First King, or a continuation of his authority, donning a different face and name. She gave her absolute obedience to the Fritz family that had ruled Edlia for 1800 years; the fact that they donned new names, both Yeager and Reiss, is not what's important. Only that they were either direct, acknowledged descendants, or maintained their status in the remnants of Eldia that is Paradis. 

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    • Verytallfox wrote: Is anyone planning on officially writing about the spine thing? It's the "source of all living matter"/"organic material"/"Devil of All Earth".

      Also, that thing is like a parasite. It lives on through spinal fluid and interdimensional paths connected to people. It needs people (Subjects of Ymir) to keep carrying and passing it along from generation to generation.

      There's been discussion on whether it should have a page on the wiki, but it's not going to at the moment since it has no proper name and everything we would say about it would fit on Ymir Fritz's page.

      We don't even know if it's a living being at all. When writing the wiki's chapter summary I referred to it as a "substance" to be as non-specific as possible. All we really know is that it's rather slimy/globby-looking.

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    • RuneLai wrote:

      Verytallfox wrote: Is anyone planning on officially writing about the spine thing? It's the "source of all living matter"/"organic material"/"Devil of All Earth".

      Also, that thing is like a parasite. It lives on through spinal fluid and interdimensional paths connected to people. It needs people (Subjects of Ymir) to keep carrying and passing it along from generation to generation.

      There's been discussion on whether it should have a page on the wiki, but it's not going to at the moment since it has no proper name and everything we would say about it would fit on Ymir Fritz's page.

      We don't even know if it's a living being at all. When writing the wiki's chapter summary I referred to it as a "substance" to be as non-specific as possible. All we really know is that it's rather slimy/globby-looking.

      That's fair. The fact that it was in the shape of a spinal cord is what makes me think it is "alive" in some sense (definitely organic, anyway). Perhaps it is intelligent. Perhaps not. But I do believe that there is great significance in the fact that it looks like a spinal cord and that all of the Titan powers are related to spinal fluid being passed on from person to person. That can't be coincidental.

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    • It definitely looks like a spine and I'm sure that's not coincidence. If the spine-thing is revisited in another chapter and we learn more about then it might eventually get its own entry.

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    • With this chapter, Ymir shouldn't be listed as an 'Intelligent Titan' but rather just 'Titan' as she was the first literal Titan ever, before the shifters existed.  I also don't think her Titan form should be listed on the Founding Titan page as her Titan was ALL of the Titans.  If she is on the Founding Titan page her Titan should be on all of the Nine Titan's pages.  The Founding Titan (in my hypothetical opinion) is just a shell of what is left over after Ymir split her soul into the eight other Titans.  

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    • RuneLai wrote:

      Verytallfox wrote: Is anyone planning on officially writing about the spine thing? It's the "source of all living matter"/"organic material"/"Devil of All Earth".

      Also, that thing is like a parasite. It lives on through spinal fluid and interdimensional paths connected to people. It needs people (Subjects of Ymir) to keep carrying and passing it along from generation to generation.

      There's been discussion on whether it should have a page on the wiki, but it's not going to at the moment since it has no proper name and everything we would say about it would fit on Ymir Fritz's page.

      We don't even know if it's a living being at all. When writing the wiki's chapter summary I referred to it as a "substance" to be as non-specific as possible. All we really know is that it's rather slimy/globby-looking.

      It's also based on Níðhöggr (Nidhogg), a dragon from Norse mythology. If it gets its own page, that should be included in the trivia section.

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    • It SHOULD get it's own page.  Just call it 'Unknown Creature' and slap on the no name template 

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    • EthanPHX wrote: It SHOULD get it's own page.  Just call it 'Unknown Creature' and slap on the no name template 

      IF a page was created about it, it should be called «source of all living matter». Because that's the only name that could fit, even if this thing is not, properly speaking, the source of life on Earth. But it seems clear to me that when Isayama evocated the «source of all living matter» in chapters 87-88, he was thinking about this thing. And this name is just a theorical name given by the Reasearch Society to a thing that was just a theory for them, so it's normal if they gave a name that doesn't perfectly match what that thing is.

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    • Yeah that's an even better name can't believe I didn't even think of that

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    • EthanPHX wrote: Yeah that's an even better name can't believe I didn't even think of that

      Tbh, I think that if such a page is created one day, it'll be after an interview of Isayama or something like that when he would be talking about this thing. Because I don't think we'll have a proper answer in the manga, maybe just a theory.

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    • @Marco1995mega @RuneLai @Freeman1378

      Can I just say your detailed reviews & paragraphs on this chapters & its characters are very well put together, as they both objective, unbiased, and has interesting parallels to real life.

      I honestly couldn't have put those words better than I.

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    • I so hope we are done with Ymir Fritz's story for a bit. Because I really do not give a damn XP Isayama needs to push forward. We confirmed where the ability to turn into a Titan came from. End of story. As far as this chapter goes. So back to either helping or killing Eren.

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    • Story's gotten so ridiculous since we left Marley, but that was kind of a lousy arc too. I'm still laughing at how much this fandom eants to overthink Yamsicle's wayward saga. He's not as brilliant as everyone wants to insist. XD

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Story's gotten so ridiculous since we left Marley, but that was kind of a lousy arc too. I'm still laughing at how much this fandom eants to overthink Yamsicle's wayward saga. He's not as brilliant as everyone wants to insist. XD

      Stop bashing the author just because the series has grown beyond your personal ability to understand. You clearly just want to see titans brutalizing each other and eating people and nothing else, the story has always been more than that.

      If there was no Marley there would be no STORY because they're what caused all the conflicts since the start of the series to happen.

      You're like one of those church of the walls people who wants the memory of the truth of the outside world wiped. So everyone can continue to live their simple cloistered lives within the walls without having to think about anything else.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:

      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Story's gotten so ridiculous since we left Marley, but that was kind of a lousy arc too. I'm still laughing at how much this fandom eants to overthink Yamsicle's wayward saga. He's not as brilliant as everyone wants to insist. XD

      Stop bashing the author just because the series has grown beyond your personal ability to understand. You clearly just want to see titans brutalizing each other and eating people and nothing else, the story has always been more than that.

      If there was no Marley there would be no STORY because they're what caused all the conflicts since the start of the series to happen.

      You're like one of those church of the walls people who wants the memory of the truth of the outside world wiped. So everyone can continue to live their simple cloistered lives within the walls without having to think about anything else.

      Hey chill out bigtime man. Do not get defensive. Especially not over something as silly as Isayama okay? Relax DX

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote: Story's gotten so ridiculous since we left Marley, but that was kind of a lousy arc too. I'm still laughing at how much this fandom eants to overthink Yamsicle's wayward saga. He's not as brilliant as everyone wants to insist. XD

      Marley was a great arc. Change my mind.

      I've seen very few authors as well-versed at crafting their world as Isayama is. I'd be curious to know who you'd rank above him and why.

      I've probably brought him up here before, but another of my favorite authors is Eiichiro Oda (One Piece), and he has a similar habit of drawing from real world history to craft his story, which I really love.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      SunWarriorAsahi wrote: Story's gotten so ridiculous since we left Marley, but that was kind of a lousy arc too. I'm still laughing at how much this fandom eants to overthink Yamsicle's wayward saga. He's not as brilliant as everyone wants to insist. XD

      Seriously? XD I am not here to help you sing the praises. Marley was a great arc. Change my mind.

      I've seen very few authors as well-versed at crafting their world as Isayama is. I'd be curious to know who you'd rank above him and why.

      I've probably brought him up here before, but another of my favorite authors is Eiichiro Oda (One Piece), and he has a similar habit of drawing from real world history to craft his story, which I really love.

      Seriously? XD You are getting so defensive over Isayama that you're trying to shut me down? I am not here to help tou sing the praises or to engage in a meaningless contest over which one of us is the better author when that isn't my assertion. This fandom really needs to not be so diehard over stuff like this. I can mock the guy however I please ;)

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:

      CaptFredricks wrote:

      SunWarriorAsahi wrote: Story's gotten so ridiculous since we left Marley, but that was kind of a lousy arc too. I'm still laughing at how much this fandom eants to overthink Yamsicle's wayward saga. He's not as brilliant as everyone wants to insist. XD

      Seriously? XD I am not here to help you sing the praises. Marley was a great arc. Change my mind.

      I've seen very few authors as well-versed at crafting their world as Isayama is. I'd be curious to know who you'd rank above him and why.

      I've probably brought him up here before, but another of my favorite authors is Eiichiro Oda (One Piece), and he has a similar habit of drawing from real world history to craft his story, which I really love.

      Seriously? XD You are getting so defensive over Isayama that you're trying to shut me down? I am not here to help tou sing the praises or to engage in a meaningless contest over which one of us is the better author when that isn't my assertion. This fandom really needs to not be so diehard over stuff like this. I can mock the guy however I please ;)

      Dude, you're the one getting defensive. I was just asking which authors you think write a better story than Isayama. You're free to like whatever you want and dislike whatever you want.

      I just find it a bit dull when you say how "overrated" Isayama is on every single chapter thread.

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    • What I find dull is all this insistence that he is a genius or something. I ain't really a diehard for this story, I like to read it in my downtime as I have since before the anime but I never let the fans keep me from having a laugh at some of the weird deal it keeps pulling XD Guess I am not impressed by the newer chapters XP

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote: What I find dull is all this insistence that he is a genius or something. I ain't really a diehard for this story, I like to read it in my downtime as I have since before the anime but I never let the fans keep me from having a laugh at some of the weird deal it keeps pulling XD Guess I am not impressed by the newer chapters XP

      Alright, fair enough. Again, I'm not trying to suppress your opinions. I don't think anybody called him a genius, but most of us here do think he's a very good writer.

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    • Lol XD I did too. But that was a long time ago XD

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Lol XD I did too. But that was a long time ago XD

      As far as I've seen, your opinion is just "Isayama is silly", without any argument, just some "XD", but it seems that you just want to see Titans fighting each other. When the story goes further than just Titans fighting, you don't try to understand it and then say the author is silly. Here, you're the only one passing as silly, not Isayama, by judging him like a 12 years old kid would do without any further reflexion behind it. As far as I've seen, no one said that it was wrong to dislike a story, no one said it was wrong to dislike ​​​​​​Attack on Titan. 

        You're clearly the kind of person that just read the story just like that, without being a great fan of it. There's no problem with that, but you don't care about the details, you don't try to understand the story at all, so why even bothering to assert an opinion on something you don't really know that well, with nothing more than just an impression? I've seen people disliking some parts of the story on this wiki, but usually, they had arguments. They tried to go further than just an impression. They were not saying Isayama is silly just because they don't like it. 

      Here, I've mostly seen people against you, so maybe you should start having a real opinion, with arguments, not acting like a 12 years old kid. After that, you'll see, you won't be considered as the silly one. However, to be honest, I highly doubt you'll ever give a real argument, just giving another silly answer with many "XD" and "Lol" and "tHiS sToRy iSN't oNlY aBoUt tItAnS fIgHtIng, tHe aUtHoR iS jUsT StUpiD"

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    • Razzylada wrote:

      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Lol XD I did too. But that was a long time ago XD

      As far as I've seen, your opinion is just "Isayama is silly", without any argument, just some "XD", but it seems that you just want to see Titans fighting each other. When the story goes further than just Titans fighting, you don't try to understand it and then say the author is silly. Here, you're the only one passing as silly, not Isayama, by judging him like a 12 years old kid would do without any further reflexion behind it. As far as I've seen, no one said that it was wrong to dislike a story, no one said it was wrong to dislike ​​​​​​Attack on Titan. 

        You're clearly the kind of person that just read the story just like that, without being a great fan of it. There's no problem with that, but you don't care about the details, you don't try to understand the story at all, so why even bothering to assert an opinion on something you don't really know that well, with nothing more than just an impression? I've seen people disliking some parts of the story on this wiki, but usually, they had arguments. They tried to go further than just an impression. They were not saying Isayama is silly just because they don't like it. 

      Here, I've mostly seen people against you, so maybe you should start having a real opinion, with arguments, not acting like a 12 years old kid. After that, you'll see, you won't be considered as the silly one. However, to be honest, I highly doubt you'll ever give a real argument, just giving another silly answer with many "XD" and "Lol" and "tHiS sToRy iSN't oNlY aBoUt tItAnS fIgHtIng, tHe aUtHoR iS jUsT StUpiD"

      Lol. XD XD Sorry Razzylada. But I guess the whole time loop nonsense kind of threw me in a bad way. I don't criticize the story for being complex but I am not interested in Grisha or Ymir. I wanna see how this battle ends. Fine we now know where the Titans spawned from. Didn't need that time loop crap to get to that point though. I also am not interested in Fay, Gross, Kruger....did I mention the Warrior Cadets are a pain in the ass? So not gonna apologize for just wanting to get back to the battle. I told you all I don't take this story THAT seriously. So all the nit and grit is secondary to me.

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    • I don't even disagree that this final arc is the worst in the series, but your reasons for thinking so don't seem to be very clear to me. I think this time loop element that Isayama has introduced is completely unnecessary too, but it does not break the story in the way you seem to be implying. The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family. That, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of the Attacker having such an ability, so this ability well and truly feels like something Isayama made up on the spot. It does not really hurt the series in any other way. The timeloop only exists as a plot twist to surprise readers (I agree that it is completely unneeded and convoluted plot twist), and it really does not have any bearing on the plot besides that.

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    • I am not too concerned with how you view my comments Razzylada, if you can't have a sense of humor over how over the top a lot of this has become then you can't get through this buttload of exposition. But I was not joking over 121. That introduced a plot point that I deem worthless. The story would not change if you cut out that time loop mumbo jumbo.

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    • Neetaku wrote: I don't even disagree that this final arc is the worst in the series, but your reasons for thinking so don't seem to be very clear to me. I think this time loop element that Isayama has introduced is completely unnecessary too, but it does not break the story in the way you seem to be implying. The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family. That, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of the Attacker having such an ability, so this ability well and truly feels like something Isayama made up on the spot. It does not really hurt the series in any other way. The timeloop only exists as a plot twist to surprise readers (I agree that it is completely unneeded and convoluted plot twist), and it really does not have any bearing on the plot besides that.

      There!! Now is that so freaking difficult for everyone to understand? That is why I don't take Isayama as seriously as the rest of yhr fandom. Let me disagree with his choices because frankly he could've done a lot of things better.

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    • Neetaku wrote:
      I don't even disagree that this final arc is the worst in the series, but your reasons for thinking so don't seem to be very clear to me. I think this time loop element that Isayama has introduced is completely unnecessary too, but it does not break the story in the way you seem to be implying. The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family. That, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of the Attacker having such an ability, so this ability well and truly feels like something Isayama made up on the spot. It does not really hurt the series in any other way. The timeloop only exists as a plot twist to surprise readers (I agree that it is completely unneeded and convoluted plot twist), and it really does not have any bearing on the plot besides that.

      Well the first foreshadowing of this ability is when Kruger mentionned Mikasa and Armin, because that was exactly this ability of the Attack Titan that has been used there. But yes, I agree, maybe a bit more foreshadowing of this ability would have been good. 

      I guess that chapter 121 stuff didn't ad that much to the story, but for my part, I've always considered the way Grisha killed the Reiss family a bit weird to me, so this chapter made it clearer to me. I didn't bother me because that was not time travel at all (just caused by the fact that Grisha inherits of Eren's future memories when he is checking Grisha's memories, which creates this impression of time travel), even if it can be analysed the same way. Tho, we've been prepared for stuff like that since chapter 1 with Eren dreaming of a future Mikasa, and even more in the anime. 

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    • Neetaku I think the story has lost steam and focus for a while now. Isayama sacrifices too many characters for the sole purpose of being cruel, he sacrifices so much focus to those warrior brats and I am tired of all the exposition. And oh yeah I felt 117, 120 and 121 were all filler. That's a lot to contend with in the final arc. Just get on with it. The last two arcs are just not as good as the old arcs. A lot of time has been wasted on things that carry in my opinion too little weight to justify their inclusion. Hizuru, Nicolo, the time loop, Porco, the Yeagerists, it's all filler. And do I even need to mention Gabi or 105? I am a pretty laidback reader but I am waiting for this guy to just cut to the chase. Maybe with the start of the Rumbling we can finally get to it. And where are Levi and Hange? Jeez. XP

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    • Razzylada wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      I don't even disagree that this final arc is the worst in the series, but your reasons for thinking so don't seem to be very clear to me. I think this time loop element that Isayama has introduced is completely unnecessary too, but it does not break the story in the way you seem to be implying. The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family. That, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of the Attacker having such an ability, so this ability well and truly feels like something Isayama made up on the spot. It does not really hurt the series in any other way. The timeloop only exists as a plot twist to surprise readers (I agree that it is completely unneeded and convoluted plot twist), and it really does not have any bearing on the plot besides that.
      Well the first foreshadowing of this ability is when Kruger mentionned Mikasa and Armin, because that was exactly this ability of the Attack Titan that has been used there. But yes, I agree, maybe a bit more foreshadowing of this ability would have been good. 

      I guess that chapter 121 stuff didn't ad that much to the story, but for my part, I've always considered the way Grisha killed the Reiss family a bit weird to me, so this chapter made it clearer to me. I didn't bother me because that was not time travel at all (just caused by the fact that Grisha inherits of Eren's future memories when he is checking Grisha's memories, which creates this impression of time travel), even if it can be analysed the same way. Tho, we've been prepared for stuff like that since chapter 1 with Eren dreaming of a future Mikasa, and even more in the anime. 

      Ah, you're right, there was the Kruger scene. But I don't think that alone is enough. What would have been really cool (and I think Isayama might have done this if he had come with the Attack Titan's ability sooner) is if there are certain points in the series where Eren is shown reacting to things before they happen during battle or something. Like maybe during the fights with Annie in the Female Titan arc and his fights with Reiner in Clash and RTS there are certain points in the fight where he predicts their attacks before they make them (to his and their surprise).

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:

      Neetaku wrote: I don't even disagree that this final arc is the worst in the series, but your reasons for thinking so don't seem to be very clear to me. I think this time loop element that Isayama has introduced is completely unnecessary too, but it does not break the story in the way you seem to be implying. The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family. That, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of the Attacker having such an ability, so this ability well and truly feels like something Isayama made up on the spot. It does not really hurt the series in any other way. The timeloop only exists as a plot twist to surprise readers (I agree that it is completely unneeded and convoluted plot twist), and it really does not have any bearing on the plot besides that.

      There!! Now is that so freaking difficult for everyone to understand? That is why I don't take Isayama as seriously as the rest of yhr fandom. Let me disagree with his choices because frankly he could've done a lot of things better.

      Well, I still think you are being too harsh on it, though. Like I said, this one plot twist (even though it is convoluted and poorly set up) does not ruin the series or even ruin this one arc. It certainly drags down the quality of the chapter it is in, but it's not completely series-breaking.

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    • But as is, my verdict is still that the time loop raises way too many questions and adds zilch. We don't need this crap about Eren seeing the future or communicating with the past. I do not care if it is canon, I call BS. Non-canon. ;)

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    • You ain't the boss. If you don't like my sense of humor that is your problem. Now what about this chapter do you wanna discuss?

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    • Neetaku wrote:
      The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family.

      This has been foreshadowed since the first chapter, when we hear someone speaking to someone 2000 years in the future.

      Also, the future not being able to be changed doesn't make the ability redundant. The future is only the way it is BECAUSE it was forseen, the most obvious example of this is Grisha murdering the Reiss family. If the Attack Titan didn't have this ability, Eren couldn't have given him the motivation to attack the Reiss family and obviously things would be different then. The foresight CAUSES the future to be the way it is, it's not a case of viewing some film that nobody had any influence in creating. The combined influence of everyone in the world is what made that future the way it is.

      If you think this ability is redundant, then by extension you must believe that every single ability in the series is redundant since none of them can change the future. The point is they all CONTRIBUTE to making the future the way it is.

      Also he doesn't have to be in contact with a royal to activate this ability, neither Grisha nor Krueger touched a royal when they were experiencing the future.

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    • Neetaku wrote:

      Razzylada wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      I don't even disagree that this final arc is the worst in the series, but your reasons for thinking so don't seem to be very clear to me. I think this time loop element that Isayama has introduced is completely unnecessary too, but it does not break the story in the way you seem to be implying. The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family. That, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of the Attacker having such an ability, so this ability well and truly feels like something Isayama made up on the spot. It does not really hurt the series in any other way. The timeloop only exists as a plot twist to surprise readers (I agree that it is completely unneeded and convoluted plot twist), and it really does not have any bearing on the plot besides that.
      Well the first foreshadowing of this ability is when Kruger mentionned Mikasa and Armin, because that was exactly this ability of the Attack Titan that has been used there. But yes, I agree, maybe a bit more foreshadowing of this ability would have been good. 

      I guess that chapter 121 stuff didn't ad that much to the story, but for my part, I've always considered the way Grisha killed the Reiss family a bit weird to me, so this chapter made it clearer to me. I didn't bother me because that was not time travel at all (just caused by the fact that Grisha inherits of Eren's future memories when he is checking Grisha's memories, which creates this impression of time travel), even if it can be analysed the same way. Tho, we've been prepared for stuff like that since chapter 1 with Eren dreaming of a future Mikasa, and even more in the anime. 

      Ah, you're right, there was the Kruger scene. But I don't think that alone is enough. What would have been really cool (and I think Isayama might have done this if he had come with the Attack Titan's ability sooner) is if there are certain points in the series where Eren is shown reacting to things before they happen during battle or something. Like maybe during the fights with Annie in the Female Titan arc and his fights with Reiner in Clash and RTS there are certain points in the fight where he predicts their attacks before they make them (to his and their surprise).

      Well I've always considered the memory stuff a bit too convenient for the storytelling: like, why didn't Eren get any memories of his father dealing with Marley and all that stuff BEFORE learning of it? Yes, maybe he needed to be aware of all of that before to eventually «trigger» these memories, but still. Why not a single glimpse of these before that? Just a few glimpses would have been good, not too much in order not to reveal anything, but also enough to understand these memories were not like «mmmmh let's wait until he learns everything before coming to his mind».

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family.
      This has been foreshadowed since the first chapter, when we hear someone speaking to someone 2000 years in the future.

      Also, the future not being able to be changed doesn't make the ability redundant. The future is only the way it is BECAUSE it was forseen, the most obvious example of this is Grisha murdering the Reiss family. If the Attack Titan didn't have this ability, Eren couldn't have given him the motivation to attack the Reiss family and obviously things would be different then. The foresight CAUSES the future to be the way it is, it's not a case of viewing some film that nobody had any influence in creating. The combined influence of everyone in the world is what made that future the way it is.

      If you think this ability is redundant, then by extension you must believe that every single ability in the series is redundant since none of them can change the future. The point is they all CONTRIBUTE to making the future the way it is.

      Also he doesn't have to be in contact with a royal to activate this ability, neither Grisha nor Krueger touched a royal when they were experiencing the future.

      The first chapter foreshadowed that Ymir would sent Eren a message from 2,000 years in the past, not that Eren would be receiving memories from the future.

      Yes, technically the Attack Titan's ability has a use in the sense that the future can only happen in the very specific ways it does because someone knows the future, but I would argue that it is still a redundant ability. What is the point of having the ability to see what happens in the future if there is absolutely no way you can use that information to try to change it? Normally having the ability to see the future would be astronomically useful, because it would give the main character the ability to see something which happens in the future (let's say the death of a friend or loved one) and then they can use that knowledge to try to prevent it. But Eren's ability to see the future does not grant him any such power.

      No, I don't believe that every single ability in the series is redundant, because no other ability in the series involves being able to see the future. Having the ability to change the future is not the only criteria which I use to say that any ability in the series is redundant, because most characters in the series do not have any knowledge of what the future will be. They are just using their abilities based on the limited understanding they have of the present. Eren's ability, on the other hand, is redundant because it allows him to see the future without giving him any real power to change what he sees. And I would argue there is no point in having an ability like that out of the few rare instances we've seen where he is able to use the ability to influence a previous inheritor with his memories.

      You're right that Kruger seemed to have inherited memories from the future without being in contact with a royal, but it remains to be seen what Eren was doing when he sent those memories back to Kruger. Grisha was not in physical contact with any royals when he inherited memories from Eren at the Reiss chapel, but Eren was in contact with the Founding Titan when he sent Grisha his memories. From what we've seen so far, Eren has had to be in contact with a royal or the Founding Titan itself every time he has sent memories to a previous inheritor, so I would assume this was also true when Kruger received Eren's memories.

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    • I am totally with Neetaku on this one, so I don't think I really have much I can add as to why this ability serves no real purpose. Inadequately foreshadowed and ultimately it just doesn't feel like an asset. I hate the implication that the future is already set in stone and has been this whole time.

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    • Neetaku wrote:

      The first chapter foreshadowed that Ymir would sent Eren a message from 2,000 years in the past, not that Eren would be receiving memories from the future.

      Except she knows exactly when the person she's communing with is receiving the message (To you, 2,000 years from now), which she could only know with foresight of the future.

      Neetaku wrote:

      Yes, technically the Attack Titan's ability has a use in the sense that the future can only happen in the very specific ways it does because someone knows the future, but I would argue that it is still a redundant ability. What is the point of having the ability to see what happens in the future if there is absolutely no way you can use that information to try to change it? Normally having the ability to see the future would be astronomically useful, because it would give the main character the ability to see something which happens in the future (let's say the death of a friend or loved one) and then they can use that knowledge to try to prevent it. But Eren's ability to see the future does not grant him any such power.

      You're not appreciating the way this ability passively excludes the future he sees from happening in a way which the attack titan doesn't want to happen, assuming he was involved in it (which he always is by definition, since he's seeing the memories of a future attack titan) and fully in control of the situation (which he isn't always, since he's only a single human/titan and not all powerful. For example Grisha cannot save Carla because she wasn't involved in the future memories he saw and he was too far away to help when he received them in any case).

      For example, a vision of a future where Eren willingly touches Zeke and the euthanasia plan actually worked COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. Eren's knowledge that everyone would be euthanized gives him no motivation to touch Zeke; meaning the events that constitute that future could never happen and thus Eren doesn't see it in a vision in the first place. He only sees visions of a future that happens the way he wants to happen because that is the ONLY FUTURE HE HAS THE MOTIVATION TO CAUSE TO HAPPEN. It's heavily speculated that this is also the reason why the attack titan never fell into Marley's hands.

      You see it as a situation where the future 'cannot be changed', I see it as a situation where the future was always distorted in favour of the attack titan from the start simply by virtue of it possessing this ability. So in a sense it 'already has changed', but not really since it was always that way from the start.

      You instead want him to wield the influence after the fact in the form of an improved alternate timeline, but that's not the time model this series is using. Everything we've seen suggests there is only one timeline, and due to the attack titan's foresight it is always constructed in a way that favours the attack titan.

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    • Go write a novel about it TK you already are halfway done XD

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Go write a novel about it TK you already are halfway done XD

      Why are you even here when you hold the series and all discussion of it in such contempt? You do nothing but repeat the same one simple thought you have over and over. I think you're behaving like a troll just to elicit attention, it's kind of pathetic.

      I'm here to discuss the series to learn new things about it, not to indulge morons like you. If you're looking for a thread where one line posts consisting of nothing but banal smilies and nonsense are the norm you're in the wrong place.

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    • Fine then. You tell me how this plot point isn't self negating. You've been the most eager to defend this time loop by far. Eren can't manipulate the past even though he van communicate with it because the future was already written in stone before his intervention? You may be able to make sense of that man. I cannot. Or how it really advances anything. Sounds pretty freaking contrived. A convenient explanation for every minute detail that wasn't reauired. And if Eren prompted Trisha to murder the Reiss family why did he give his murdering son the injection later? Maybe I missed something. You may hate my mocking tone man but come on now. Be real here. What would change if we never knew any of this garbage from 121? As far as I figure nothing. Eren has been pretty self serving in whatever the hell he hopes to achieve from this looping scheme.

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    • TK, SunWarrior - how come the two you are debating for days (!) about what is the right way to debate on AOT, and not the plot itself? I don't mean do get between you two - you seem to have much fun from this discussion, but let me ask you two - What the both of you (the light reader, and the heavy reader) think that Eren actually wants? I mean, truly. Ever since the Marley saga, the dude wants something! It's not like he lost his sh*t all of a suuden... So whats the matter with him? 

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      SunWarriorAsahi wrote: Story's gotten so ridiculous since we left Marley, but that was kind of a lousy arc too. I'm still laughing at how much this fandom eants to overthink Yamsicle's wayward saga. He's not as brilliant as everyone wants to insist. XD

      Marley was a great arc. Change my mind.

      I've seen very few authors as well-versed at crafting their world as Isayama is. I'd be curious to know who you'd rank above him and why.

      I've probably brought him up here before, but another of my favorite authors is Eiichiro Oda (One Piece), and he has a similar habit of drawing from real world history to craft his story, which I really love.

      One Piece is a excellent example of creative storytelling and world building. All from Shonen Jump.

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    • Neetaku wrote: I don't even disagree that this final arc is the worst in the series, but your reasons for thinking so don't seem to be very clear to me. I think this time loop element that Isayama has introduced is completely unnecessary too, but it does not break the story in the way you seem to be implying. The only huge issue with the Attack Titan's ability to see the future is that it seems like a staggeringly redundant ability to have since the future cannot be changed, and it seems like the ability only ever works when the Attack's user is in contact with a member of the royal family. That, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of the Attacker having such an ability, so this ability well and truly feels like something Isayama made up on the spot. It does not really hurt the series in any other way. The timeloop only exists as a plot twist to surprise readers (I agree that it is completely unneeded and convoluted plot twist), and it really does not have any bearing on the plot besides that.

      Unless you just see into the future, past wise. But other than that, it does seem like a massive plot hole. I kinda hope the anime fixes that issue, or at least explain it better.

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    • At this stage I say if you still support Eren......you're doing so blindly. Much like Mikasa. True we don't know his intentions. But you cannot possibly call him a hero after all he has done. I think here's ends don't justify his means. Frankly I rather that Isayama spits out the truth of his plan and end the speculation now. He's a frustrating little shit, that Eren. Eren, Gabi, Reiner, Zeke, Floch, Helena, the damn Marley army......murderers all of them. I stopped acknowledging him as the protagonist long ago. He still wants bloody revenge, he did not awake those Titans purely as a display. He is trying to assume Ymir's powers. And he fully intends to use them against everyone he sees as an enemy. Time to stop fawning over his long hair. Eren I have to say needs to die before Eldia can live. I am rooting for his death along with the others I mentioned.

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    • To think Sasha died for that bastard.

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    • Klaroliner7 wrote:
      TK, SunWarrior - how come the two you are debating for days (!) about what is the right way to debate on AOT, and not the plot itself? I don't mean do get between you two - you seem to have much fun from this discussion, but let me ask you two - What the both of you (the light reader, and the heavy reader) think that Eren actually wants? I mean, truly. Ever since the Marley saga, the dude wants something! It's not like he lost his sh*t all of a suuden... So whats the matter with him? 

      You can see this thread alone that I do in fact debate plot points rather than just repeatedly call the author silly and ridicule all the legitimate discussion. I got a new perspective on the nature of the relationship between subjects of Ymir and the royal blood just earlier in this thread for example. I just feel the need to say something when this clown appears multiple times in every single thread just to say that he's bored of anything that's not people physically fighting each other and thinks the author is silly.

      What Eren wants is unclear. I think he has the interests of the people of paradis at heart. At the start of the series his goal was to kill all the titans to free his people from their oppression and enable them to explore the world. After he realized Marley was the source of the titans and thus the oppression, he took action against them. Which included destroying their ships to protect paradis, eating the warhammer to weaken them while strengthening himself (and you could say by extension, paradis), kidnapping Zeke for similar reasons, and ultimately attacking the military leadership in liberio in a pre-emptive strike as a sign to say he accepts Marley's declaration of war and is ready to destroy them.

      The gist of his character is that he's willing to kill anyone that threatens his freedom (even as a small child), so the obvious idea of using the rumbling to decimate the other nations such that they're no longer able to threaten paradis militarily would make sense. Whether this goes as far as him wanting to re-establish the eldian empire is unknown, though that is possible. He may see doing that as the only way to keep the eldians scattered throughout the world safe from the tyranny of Marley or any other such nations out there.

      This stuff is all rather surface level and obvious though, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a twist in there somewhere regarding Eren's true motivations. After he ate the warhammer I initially believed part of Eren's plan was going to be eating all the other titan shifters to reassemble the original titan in order to wield its ultimate power for some purpose, but I'm not so sure about that angle anymore.

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    • TK I am not here to compete with you any more than I am with Razzylada. I may not have the time or desire to write chapter long analyses like yours but I would appreciate if you would not dump on me because you disapprove of my approach. I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with you. Just don't talk to me the next time you wanna talk time loops. I am out.

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    • Clown huh? Okay I will be sure a chat moderator gets a good look at that one. Thank you TK, I am a chill guy but I ain't taking crap like that. Talk the chapter and the chapter alone. I came to this wiki for chat's sake. Not tbis.

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    • How does the ability to foresee the future not change anything? It has been foreshadowed since chapter 1 lmao.

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    • @ SunWarriorAsahi I m disagree that these chapters were useless, since they were fundamental to deepen the characters nature.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Klaroliner7 wrote:
      TK, SunWarrior - how come the two you are debating for days (!) about what is the right way to debate on AOT, and not the plot itself? I don't mean do get between you two - you seem to have much fun from this discussion, but let me ask you two - What the both of you (the light reader, and the heavy reader) think that Eren actually wants? I mean, truly. Ever since the Marley saga, the dude wants something! It's not like he lost his sh*t all of a suuden... So whats the matter with him? 
      You can see this thread alone that I do in fact debate plot points rather than just repeatedly call the author silly and ridicule all the legitimate discussion. I got a new perspective on the nature of the relationship between subjects of Ymir and the royal blood just earlier in this thread for example. I just feel the need to say something when this clown appears multiple times in every single thread just to say that he's bored of anything that's not people physically fighting each other and thinks the author is silly.

      What Eren wants is unclear. I think he has the interests of the people of paradis at heart. At the start of the series his goal was to kill all the titans to free his people from their oppression and enable them to explore the world. After he realized Marley was the source of the titans and thus the oppression, he took action against them. Which included destroying their ships to protect paradis, eating the warhammer to weaken them while strengthening himself (and you could say by extension, paradis), kidnapping Zeke for similar reasons, and ultimately attacking the military leadership in liberio in a pre-emptive strike as a sign to say he accepts Marley's declaration of war and is ready to destroy them.

      The gist of his character is that he's willing to kill anyone that threatens his freedom (even as a small child), so the obvious idea of using the rumbling to decimate the other nations such that they're no longer able to threaten paradis militarily would make sense. Whether this goes as far as him wanting to re-establish the eldian empire is unknown, though that is possible. He may see doing that as the only way to keep the eldians scattered throughout the world safe from the tyranny of Marley or any other such nations out there.

      This stuff is all rather surface level and obvious though, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a twist in there somewhere regarding Eren's true motivations. After he ate the warhammer I initially believed part of Eren's plan was going to be eating all the other titan shifters to reassemble the original titan in order to wield its ultimate power for some purpose, but I'm not so sure about that angle anymore.

      I don't think Eren wants to re-establish the Eldian Empire but I think he is gonna use the rumbling to start a new to have everything rebuilt from the ground up to where nobody has to fear one another.

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    • Dunno what Grisha saw as far as Eren's endgame goes...........But I hope Mikasa and Armin turn the tables on whatever it was that was so terrible. Eren's had a little too much control of the situation and I am STILL not on board with the implication from the time loop that Eren's desired result is the one set in stone regardless of what anyone does. If what he's planning is as bad as Grisha believes it to be, as bad as what Zeke sees it to be.........Hope Mikasa and Armin will put that punk in his place finally. We just know that Eren's plan does not call for the euthanasia of his people. So Yelena and Zeke's plan there may very well have already failed as far as that end of the plan goes. Or maybe Zeke has another way to force that end that he'll attempt, everything tends to drag with Yams. Everything. Nothing is ever final except when you're dead. For anyone who's not a shifter anyway. It's unlikely that his vision is the one he shares with the imperialist nutjob Floch, Floch's probably not gonna like what he gets if he even lives long enough to find out what it is. He hopefully won't. But whatever Eren's planning......Armin and Mikasa I hope are the ones to set right whatever he does that will endanger the world/Paradis. 

      But seriously, the plan better call for the deaths of not just Zeke but also Reiner, Gabi and Pieck. XP 

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    • @Sunwarriorasahi   well im sorry but there are a lot more fans that read this manga that asked for these chapters so the reason these chapters exist may be because most of the fans wanted the explanations too, im sorry to break your love for battle for around 3 months i think, but you just have to be patient and we will all get what we want, it is just bonus info if the wall titans were awakened in the last chapter it means that the next one will most probably satisfy your desires, but unfotunately there are 100 more fans that 100% wont change their opinions about the explanation chapters and that really appreaciate their existance so there is no possible way for you to win this argument. In conclusion you should move this argument onto people that are more open to your opinion which i think are kind off not into the science fiction theories that all of us here on fandom wiki appreaciate. when you will find yourself an army of people that have the same opinion as you only then you will stand a chance against this fandom thread. As of your further actions here are pointless , this is an argument you cant win. Case closed.

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    • Alex216587 wrote: @Sunwarriorasahi   well im sorry but there are a lot more fans that read this manga that asked for these chapters so the reason these chapters exist may be because most of the fans wanted the explanations too, im sorry to break your love for battle for around 3 months i think, but you just have to be patient and we will all get what we want, it is just bonus info if the wall titans were awakened in the last chapter it means that the next one will most probably satisfy your desires, but unfotunately there are 100 more fans that 100% wont change their opinions about the explanation chapters and that really appreaciate their existance so there is no possible way for you to win this argument. In conclusion you should move this argument onto people that are more open to your opinion which i think are kind off not into the science fiction theories that all of us here on fandom wiki appreaciate. when you will find yourself an army of people that have the same opinion as you only then you will stand a chance against this fandom thread. As of your further actions here are pointless , this is an argument you cant win. Case closed.

      LOL. What do I even say to that? But seriously would you kindly not shut me down? You got your opinion I got mine. If you wanna interpret this as a battle I am not gonna have any part of that game. Seriously I don't get that attitude man but spare me please. I am here to chat. Case closed ;)

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    • A little late to the party but hot damn that was a pretty impressive chapter. I'm glad Isayama didn't try to show the original Fritz in some morally grey light, because he is, above all else, an abuser. Sometimes, when most authors try and fail to blur the lines between good and evil, sometimes it's best to have a character who's evil JUST for the sake of being evil, and by god Fritz is that someone. Also, even though I've wanted the rumbling to happen, I didn't think Yams would have the stones to do it after 30+ chapters of the tiresome "empathy and forgiveness solves all the world's complex problems" crap. He did NOT disappoint with the Rumbling, the imagery alone was superb, I'm actually quite hopeful for some vivid action scenes now that the Rumbling is beginning.

      P.S, don't tell me Ymir doesn't deserve her freedom after 2000 years of being a slave.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote: A little late to the party but hot damn that was a pretty impressive chapter. I'm glad Isayama didn't try to show the original Fritz in some morally grey light, because he is, above all else, an abuser. Sometimes, when most authors try and fail to blur the lines between good and evil, sometimes it's best to have a character who's evil JUST for the sake of being evil, and by god Fritz is that someone. Also, even though I've wanted the rumbling to happen, I didn't think Yams would have the stones to do it after 30+ chapters of the tiresome "empathy and forgiveness solves all the world's complex problems" crap. He did NOT disappoint with the Rumbling, the imagery alone was superb, I'm actually quite hopeful for some vivid action scenes now that the Rumbling is beginning.

      P.S, don't tell me Ymir doesn't deserve her freedom after 2000 years of being a slave.

      Yeah, sometimes there are straight up messed up evil people that causes all the world's problems down the line. Talk about choices can have consequential impacts for years to come. An evil character for the sake of evil which is okay but sometimes don't offer a lot of depth and feel like a copout if thats the reason.

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    • Not sure if this is relevant to the chapter, but I gotta ask:  Has any other nation ever given Marley any heat for invading Paradis (which is why Paradis started becoming more hostile to the outside world in the first place).  If so, do they know the real reason they invaded in the first place?

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    • Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.

      They really need to just retconn Hizuru out of the story in season 4 because they have brought absolutely nothing to the story (remember those planes Kiyomi helped Paradis build? Yeah, me neither)

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    • I second that.

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    • EthanPHX wrote:

      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.

      They really need to just retconn Hizuru out of the story in season 4 because they have brought absolutely nothing to the story (remember those planes Kiyomi helped Paradis build? Yeah, me neither)

      They said they weren't going to fight due to the basis if this whole war for Paradis flops sideways then they won't join possibly on the basis of being isolated from the international community.

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      At this stage I say if you still support Eren......you're doing so blindly. Much like Mikasa. True we don't know his intentions. But you cannot possibly call him a hero after all he has done. I think here's ends don't justify his means. Frankly I rather that Isayama spits out the truth of his plan and end the speculation now. He's a frustrating little shit, that Eren. Eren, Gabi, Reiner, Zeke, Floch, Helena, the damn Marley army......murderers all of them. I stopped acknowledging him as the protagonist long ago. He still wants bloody revenge, he did not awake those Titans purely as a display. He is trying to assume Ymir's powers. And he fully intends to use them against everyone he sees as an enemy. Time to stop fawning over his long hair. Eren I have to say needs to die before Eldia can live. I am rooting for his death along with the others I mentioned.

      I undertsand ur points surrounding his intentions and the time loop (which def isn't a thing and was taken too literally). But the way you've been putting Eren (and his fans) down around here makes you the blind one.  You clearly didn't grasp the full picture of the Libero attack if ur just going to label him a murderer from that, and I see ur trying to validate that with Sasha.  You think he also is still driven by revenge? He's had a ton of development that proves that isn't the case at all.  You and a few others just think he went full villain, even thought he was going along with Zeke's euthanasia plot when it was obvious to many who paid attention that that was NEVER going to be the case.  Also, it doesn't fit his development to just end the world. We don't know what he's going to do yet, and so far, this whole "villain" thing was clearly made to mislead us as it doesn't fit his character development.  You think his fans are blind? Atleast they had sound reasons to support him, unlike his minority of haters who've done the exact opposite for years now.

      You sound like a reasonable guy, and I can respect that you lost ur interest in both Eren and the story, and its morbid curiousity keeping you here. Ur not the first one I've seen do this here. but ur lack of critiquing constructively isn't helping ur case.  I can respect and understand different opinions from mine, but I can only do that if the logic behind them is sound, and you failed there since you clearly missing some crucial details. Honestly, even if I shared ur stance, I'd still disagree with ur logic behind it, and from what I've seen here, people are having that issue with you, including an admin. 

      I'm not here to argue, let alone change ur mind about Eren and the story.  I understand (and somewhat agree) with a couple things you said, but it doesn't mean much if you discuss the story without grasping the big picture.  You fix that, and I wouldn't mind trading viewpoints with you, despite our vastly different opinions.  If not, you may as well not comment as it can't be worth it to you discussing a viewpoint that is blunted with inaccuracies.

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.

      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 

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    • EthanPHX wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      They really need to just retconn Hizuru out of the story in season 4 because they have brought absolutely nothing to the story (remember those planes Kiyomi helped Paradis build? Yeah, me neither)

      I see them coming back soon.

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      At this stage I say if you still support Eren......you're doing so blindly. Much like Mikasa. True we don't know his intentions. But you cannot possibly call him a hero after all he has done. I think here's ends don't justify his means. Frankly I rather that Isayama spits out the truth of his plan and end the speculation now. He's a frustrating little shit, that Eren. Eren, Gabi, Reiner, Zeke, Floch, Helena, the damn Marley army......murderers all of them. I stopped acknowledging him as the protagonist long ago. He still wants bloody revenge, he did not awake those Titans purely as a display. He is trying to assume Ymir's powers. And he fully intends to use them against everyone he sees as an enemy. Time to stop fawning over his long hair. Eren I have to say needs to die before Eldia can live. I am rooting for his death along with the others I mentioned.
      I undertsand ur points surrounding his intentions and the time loop (which def isn't a thing and was taken too literally). But the way you've been putting Eren (and his fans) down around here makes you the blind one.  You clearly didn't grasp the full picture of the Libero attack if ur just going to label him a murderer from that, and I see ur trying to validate that with Sasha.  You think he also is still driven by revenge? He's had a ton of development that proves that isn't the case at all.  You and a few others just think he went full villain, even thought he was going along with Zeke's euthanasia plot when it was obvious to many who paid attention that that was NEVER going to be the case.  Also, it doesn't fit his development to just end the world. We don't know what he's going to do yet, and so far, this whole "villain" thing was clearly made to mislead us as it doesn't fit his character development.  You think his fans are blind? Atleast they had sound reasons to support him, unlike his minority of haters who've done the exact opposite for years now.

      You sound like a reasonable guy, and I can respect that you lost ur interest in both Eren and the story, and its morbid curiousity keeping you here. Ur not the first one I've seen do this here. but ur lack of critiquing constructively isn't helping ur case.  I can respect and understand different opinions from mine, but I can only do that if the logic behind them is sound, and you failed there since you clearly missing some crucial details. Honestly, even if I shared ur stance, I'd still disagree with ur logic behind it, and from what I've seen here, people are having that issue with you, including an admin. 

      I'm not here to argue, let alone change ur mind about Eren and the story.  I understand (and somewhat agree) with a couple things you said, but it doesn't mean much if you discuss the story without grasping the big picture.  You fix that, and I wouldn't mind trading viewpoints with you, despite our vastly different opinions.  If not, you may as well not comment as it can't be worth it to you discussing a viewpoint that is blunted with inaccuracies.

      Well I ain't alone in feeling like Eren is way past being the hero so not sure what else there is to say, man. That's how I feel. Feel free to disagree but yeah. To hell with Eren. Eren is hellbound. 

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    • StilAttackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 

      Still a crass move to do it with civilians present. Sorry, but as Mikasa said, you can't take that one back. What you said makes sense but at the same time Eren is every bit as foolish as he is determined. 

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      StilAttackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 
      Still a crass move to do it with civilians present. Sorry, but as Mikasa said, you can't take that one back. What you said makes sense but at the same time Eren is every bit as foolish as he is determined. 

      Since you brought up that Mikasa moment, you should take note of the sad face Eren gives her when he sees her teary eyed. He's not cold-blooded here, he clearly isn't happy about the colaterral damage he caused. He said the same in chp 115 too.  If he didn't attack, the world would've mobilized against the island, which would be an impossible fight for them.  Eren really had no choice in the matter.  Even if you still hold it against him, just say you don't like the nature of the attack, not that he just seemed "foolish".

      On that note, in regards to ur other response, nobody is calling Eren "the hero" anymore.  He is still the main protagonist, but hero is not the term anymore. We all consider him to be an anti-hero, and a very respectable one at that.  Sure, us fans aren't happy with the civilians who were killed, but we understand the full picture to know that what Eren did was necessary, hence why we support him.  Even if I hated Eren like you do for this, I'd still understand the story enough to know that too.  He's not as "hellbound" as you may think tbh, he can be forgiven for this, which I predict he might be soon.  Not saying you'll like him then, but be more open to the fact that he is not the "villain' you and few others think he is now.  That way, even if its just a bad taste you guys have in ur mouth with him, you'll be easier to understand as regardless if a few of you feel this way, the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't structure it properly.

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      StilAttackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 
      Still a crass move to do it with civilians present. Sorry, but as Mikasa said, you can't take that one back. What you said makes sense but at the same time Eren is every bit as foolish as he is determined. 
      Since you brought up that Mikasa moment, you should take note of the sad face Eren gives her when he sees her teary eyed. He's not cold-blooded here, he clearly isn't happy about the colaterral damage he caused. He said the same in chp 115 too.  If he didn't attack, the world would've mobilized against the island, which would be an impossible fight for them.  Eren really had no choice in the matter.  Even if you still hold it against him, just say you don't like the nature of the attack, not that he just seemed "foolish".

      On that note, in regards to ur other response, nobody is calling Eren "the hero" anymore.  He is still the main protagonist, but hero is not the term anymore. We all consider him to be an anti-hero, and a very respectable one at that.  Sure, us fans aren't happy with the civilians who were killed, but we understand the full picture to know that what Eren did was necessary, hence why we support him.  Even if I hated Eren like you do for this, I'd still understand the story enough to know that too.  He's not as "hellbound" as you may think tbh, he can be forgiven for this, which I predict he might be soon.  Not saying you'll like him then, but be more open to the fact that he is not the "villain' you and few others think he is now.  That way, even if its just a bad taste you guys have in ur mouth with him, you'll be easier to understand as regardless if a few of you feel this way, the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't structure it properly.

      Yes I am well aware the invasion was inevitable. But doing what he did.........If he could get into Marley largely unseen then he could've found alternative options to getting the War Hammer. 



      Respectable? LMAO. More than just a bad taste, dude. I'm looking forward to when he dies. 

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    • SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      StilAttackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 
      Still a crass move to do it with civilians present. Sorry, but as Mikasa said, you can't take that one back. What you said makes sense but at the same time Eren is every bit as foolish as he is determined. 
      Since you brought up that Mikasa moment, you should take note of the sad face Eren gives her when he sees her teary eyed. He's not cold-blooded here, he clearly isn't happy about the colaterral damage he caused. He said the same in chp 115 too.  If he didn't attack, the world would've mobilized against the island, which would be an impossible fight for them.  Eren really had no choice in the matter.  Even if you still hold it against him, just say you don't like the nature of the attack, not that he just seemed "foolish".

      On that note, in regards to ur other response, nobody is calling Eren "the hero" anymore.  He is still the main protagonist, but hero is not the term anymore. We all consider him to be an anti-hero, and a very respectable one at that.  Sure, us fans aren't happy with the civilians who were killed, but we understand the full picture to know that what Eren did was necessary, hence why we support him.  Even if I hated Eren like you do for this, I'd still understand the story enough to know that too.  He's not as "hellbound" as you may think tbh, he can be forgiven for this, which I predict he might be soon.  Not saying you'll like him then, but be more open to the fact that he is not the "villain' you and few others think he is now.  That way, even if its just a bad taste you guys have in ur mouth with him, you'll be easier to understand as regardless if a few of you feel this way, the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't structure it properly.

      Yes I am well aware the invasion was inevitable. But doing what he did.........If he could get into Marley largely unseen then he could've found alternative options to getting the War Hammer. 



      Respectable? LMAO. More than just a bad taste, dude. I'm looking forward to when he dies. 

      Doubt that dude.  Getting into Marley was one thing, but turning into a titan and eating the WHT while remaining covert is literally impossible.  The Tybur family was the Marley equivalent to the Reiss family.  Look how both were kept under tight wraps and security.  But also, there were other targets Eren had to take out, like the military leaders.  I know you feel there were other ways, few others threw that rebuttle out there too, but it was always 100% subjective of you guys. There were never any other ways, hence why nobody threw that in Eren's face when he returned to them following that attack.

      This goes to my original point. The problem isn't the attack per se but the innocents killed in the crossfire.  Doubt you would be demonizing Eren if there were no casualties like that lol besides you sound like you acknowledged him at one point. If yes, what was ur take on the trost battle against the Female titan?  You know what I'm getting at lol

      This is why I said "bad taste". You just feel that way cuz of the innocent collateral damage. I get that, I wasn't happy either, but I understand enough that I don't think Eren should be put to death for it. Btw, if you don't get ur wish for him to die, will you be good with that? There's a strong chance that's him holding the baby in the final panel.

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      StilAttackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 
      Still a crass move to do it with civilians present. Sorry, but as Mikasa said, you can't take that one back. What you said makes sense but at the same time Eren is every bit as foolish as he is determined. 
      Since you brought up that Mikasa moment, you should take note of the sad face Eren gives her when he sees her teary eyed. He's not cold-blooded here, he clearly isn't happy about the colaterral damage he caused. He said the same in chp 115 too.  If he didn't attack, the world would've mobilized against the island, which would be an impossible fight for them.  Eren really had no choice in the matter.  Even if you still hold it against him, just say you don't like the nature of the attack, not that he just seemed "foolish".

      On that note, in regards to ur other response, nobody is calling Eren "the hero" anymore.  He is still the main protagonist, but hero is not the term anymore. We all consider him to be an anti-hero, and a very respectable one at that.  Sure, us fans aren't happy with the civilians who were killed, but we understand the full picture to know that what Eren did was necessary, hence why we support him.  Even if I hated Eren like you do for this, I'd still understand the story enough to know that too.  He's not as "hellbound" as you may think tbh, he can be forgiven for this, which I predict he might be soon.  Not saying you'll like him then, but be more open to the fact that he is not the "villain' you and few others think he is now.  That way, even if its just a bad taste you guys have in ur mouth with him, you'll be easier to understand as regardless if a few of you feel this way, the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't structure it properly.

      Yes I am well aware the invasion was inevitable. But doing what he did.........If he could get into Marley largely unseen then he could've found alternative options to getting the War Hammer. 


      Respectable? LMAO. More than just a bad taste, dude. I'm looking forward to when he dies. 

      Doubt that dude.  Getting into Marley was one thing, but turning into a titan and eating the WHT while remaining covert is literally impossible.  The Tybur family was the Marley equivalent to the Reiss family.  Look how both were kept under tight wraps and security.  But also, there were other targets Eren had to take out, like the military leaders.  I know you feel there were other ways, few others threw that rebuttle out there too, but it was always 100% subjective of you guys. There were never any other ways, hence why nobody threw that in Eren's face when he returned to them following that attack.

      This goes to my original point. The problem isn't the attack per se but the innocents killed in the crossfire.  Doubt you would be demonizing Eren if there were no casualties like that lol besides you sound like you acknowledged him at one point. If yes, what was ur take on the trost battle against the Female titan?  You know what I'm getting at lol

      This is why I said "bad taste". You just feel that way cuz of the innocent collateral damage. I get that, I wasn't happy either, but I understand enough that I don't think Eren should be put to death for it. Btw, if you don't get ur wish for him to die, will you be good with that? There's a strong chance that's him holding the baby in the final panel.

      I do believe that was Stohess District, not Trost dude. XP Well he certainly needs to be held accountable for that. But here he knew exactly who would suffer for his actions in Liberio. Hell, Chapter 121 is still quite infuriating because if he has that kind of insight into the past and future, then I am not convinced of his inability to see what would befall his friends. But I argued at length over the nonsensical inclusion of a freaking time loop in the story, despite the earlier hints of one. 

      Acknowledged him on what count? 

      I am all too happy to say that I am just as eager to see Eren die after he takes care of the Marley as I am to see Zeke, Floch, and Garbage Braun die. XD 

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      StilAttackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 
      Still a crass move to do it with civilians present. Sorry, but as Mikasa said, you can't take that one back. What you said makes sense but at the same time Eren is every bit as foolish as he is determined. 
      Since you brought up that Mikasa moment, you should take note of the sad face Eren gives her when he sees her teary eyed. He's not cold-blooded here, he clearly isn't happy about the colaterral damage he caused. He said the same in chp 115 too.  If he didn't attack, the world would've mobilized against the island, which would be an impossible fight for them.  Eren really had no choice in the matter.  Even if you still hold it against him, just say you don't like the nature of the attack, not that he just seemed "foolish".

      On that note, in regards to ur other response, nobody is calling Eren "the hero" anymore.  He is still the main protagonist, but hero is not the term anymore. We all consider him to be an anti-hero, and a very respectable one at that.  Sure, us fans aren't happy with the civilians who were killed, but we understand the full picture to know that what Eren did was necessary, hence why we support him.  Even if I hated Eren like you do for this, I'd still understand the story enough to know that too.  He's not as "hellbound" as you may think tbh, he can be forgiven for this, which I predict he might be soon.  Not saying you'll like him then, but be more open to the fact that he is not the "villain' you and few others think he is now.  That way, even if its just a bad taste you guys have in ur mouth with him, you'll be easier to understand as regardless if a few of you feel this way, the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't structure it properly.

      I'm wondering:  Would Willy have been willing (no pun intended) to call of the invasion plan and negotiate with Eren about peace if the latter, after learning that his side is the "bad guy" like he thinks, were to willingly turn himself in immediately after due to hearing the truth?

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    • Come on, Isayama, COME ON man! Damn it.

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      StilAttackcjc wrote:
      SunWarriorAsahi wrote:
      Only Hizuru but they ain't even committing to a direct fight, their alliance with Paradis is secret and as of Chapter 122 still irrelevant. And Willy Tybur baited Eren into attacking to justify the Marley's second attempt to invade.
      That second attempt was coming anyway. Sure Willy took advantage upon learning of a possible infiltration, but regardless, he stood behind his declaration of war.  Eren was never baited like that. Even if he didn't attack in that moment, the invasion would've still carried out.  Its not like he was going to backpedal that war declaration if Eren didn't attack. 
      Still a crass move to do it with civilians present. Sorry, but as Mikasa said, you can't take that one back. What you said makes sense but at the same time Eren is every bit as foolish as he is determined. 
      Since you brought up that Mikasa moment, you should take note of the sad face Eren gives her when he sees her teary eyed. He's not cold-blooded here, he clearly isn't happy about the colaterral damage he caused. He said the same in chp 115 too.  If he didn't attack, the world would've mobilized against the island, which would be an impossible fight for them.  Eren really had no choice in the matter.  Even if you still hold it against him, just say you don't like the nature of the attack, not that he just seemed "foolish".

      On that note, in regards to ur other response, nobody is calling Eren "the hero" anymore.  He is still the main protagonist, but hero is not the term anymore. We all consider him to be an anti-hero, and a very respectable one at that.  Sure, us fans aren't happy with the civilians who were killed, but we understand the full picture to know that what Eren did was necessary, hence why we support him.  Even if I hated Eren like you do for this, I'd still understand the story enough to know that too.  He's not as "hellbound" as you may think tbh, he can be forgiven for this, which I predict he might be soon.  Not saying you'll like him then, but be more open to the fact that he is not the "villain' you and few others think he is now.  That way, even if its just a bad taste you guys have in ur mouth with him, you'll be easier to understand as regardless if a few of you feel this way, the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't structure it properly.

      I'm wondering:  Would Willy have been willing (no pun intended) to call of the invasion plan and negotiate with Eren about peace if the latter, after learning that his side is the "bad guy" like he thinks, were to willingly turn himself in immediately after due to hearing the truth?

      As I said to SunWarrior, there was no way Willy was going to call off that invasion/declaration of war.  Both already knew Eren's side was "The bad guy", and Willy was clearly set on their destruction. The fact that Willy falsely made Eren public enemy #1 just cuz he has the founding power is solid proof of that. Also note how he says to Magath he doesn't care if Eldians die at all.

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    • Yes. I got that part. 

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    • A FANDOM user
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