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    • Once again, we got a good chapter that left me wanting more; I was glad to see a lot of favorites returning after such a long time (especially my waifu Annie.)

      The exchange between Armin and Mikasa was definitely a highlight for me. Armin's continuing thoughts about his survival back in 'Return to Shiganshina' is understandable but I think he really has the potential to live up to Erwin's legacy (and possibly surpass it). Mikasa has been dependent on Eren for so long she's essentially unable to do anything without him and it was a decent wakeup call for her.

      I hope Floch is dealt with on the sooner side; the power is really going to his head and he's even more devoted to Eren than Yelena was to Zeke (which is saying something). I honestly hope Jean is the one who kills him; the exchange between them both really seems to hint this could be what happens.

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    • I enjoyed this chapter more than I thought I was going to as while I still think the pace is oddly languid through these past three chapters considering the literal apocalypse is occuring, this chapter had good character beats & solid dialogue which propelled it to being a rock solid chapter. 

      Pros: 

      - It was nice to see Annie again and getting her full story was pretty great adding extra levels of character & tragedy to both her & Mr. Leonhart. I was also pretty moved by the last panel of Mr. Leonhart charging the Marley guards as it just goes to show how much he's changed & genuinely cares for his daughter. I also find it pretty interesting that most Warriors come from shattered families which feels true to the real world. 

      - I also enjoyed Armin's outburst as even though it was blunt in expressing what was obvious subtext or stated before, I did enjoy the raw emotion of it especially in how beaten down & exasperated he feels about the whole situation. Definitely getting the feeling that Armin & Eren are going to have a colossal fight and I am interested in seeing it brought to life as a fan of stuff like Pacific Rim & Revenge Of The Sith's final fight.

      - Connie reflecting back on why he joined the military was a pretty strong beat & contrasting that against his current deceitful & immoral actions was the kind of smart economic writing I enjoy. I think it also makes a good point about what happens to idealistic people who join the military as Connie has been so perpetually shit that he's been broken in about every way. I'm really digging the character work for Connie recently and I am interested in seeing how it will end. 

      Cons: 

      - "Insert beating dead horse meme here". I don't enjoy that Levi is in perfectly good health & probably going to be reinserted into the final battle as holding an obvious secret like this is a lazy way to keep people invested (a trick frequently employed by JJ Abrams to really poor effect) & dramatically lowers the integrity of the narrative. I've grown to accept that the series will probably never be the high stakes bloodbath I want but I wish the series would stop with the fakeout deaths: either submit to shonen tropes of invincibility & high flying action or start killing primaries, you can't have it both ways. 

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    • The title is changed. It was "After Glow" and this chapter is still amazing. I'm broken and sad. How you feeling for this chapter?

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    • Elal08 wrote:

      The title is changed. It was "After Glow"

      That was an unofficial title from a fan translation, this is the official translation by Kodansha Comics.

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    • Wow, Levi looks relatively fine. Ok, sure. 

      The chapter was good. Loved seeing annie back and have a conversation with hitch. 


      The only thing I didn't really like is how Levi is apparently fine (considering how bad his injuries were). Not even the floch shit annoyed me. 

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    • Winston4278 wrote: Once again, we got a good chapter that left me wanting more; I was glad to see a lot of favorites returning after such a long time (especially my waifu Annie.)

      The exchange between Armin and Mikasa was definitely a highlight for me. Armin's continuing thoughts about his survival back in 'Return to Shiganshina' is understandable but I think he really has the potential to live up to Erwin's legacy (and possibly surpass it). Mikasa has been dependent on Eren for so long she's essentially unable to do anything without him and it was a decent wakeup call for her.

      I hope Floch is dealt with on the sooner side; the power is really going to his head and he's even more devoted to Eren than Yelena was to Zeke (which is saying something). I honestly hope Jean is the one who kills him; the exchange between them both really seems to hint this could be what happens.

      Same here, I am hoping Floch gets his shit wrecked, by either crippling the guy, or just shoot him and be done with it, either by Jean's hand, Yelena, or more fittingly Keith Shadis. Since it be right since Keith had his ass handed to him by a bunch zealous, Pro-Eldia Empire youngsters, so it be right, where the elder gets to lay his foot down back at them.

      Floch was kind of a interesting character who was the voice of reason in the Back to Shiganshina Arc, now he is like a overzealous fanboy (Huh, sound familiar?)

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    • I thought this was a okay chapter, while not much happened but we got more character in-depth to Annie, which revealed that she was a orphan and adopted by her adoptive parent who was the exact same way, who taught her how to be a emotionless killing machine. Also the Hitch and Annie bonding was kind of nice too.

      I think Keith Shadis will play a major role in becoming the next new leader of Paradis since he is the only one with any leadership skills and experience (he was a former commander of the Survey Corp after all) and this chapter seems to be hinting at that, since he wanted to be "special".

      Connie does seem to be dedicated to getting his mother back, but i think he is going to hesitate at the last moment (even Mr. Braus seems to hint that), but I really don't want Connie to die but I feel like that is leaning towards that. Small note, I found the Kaya bit saying the "name Gabi sucks, Mia is better" kind of funny.

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    • @Freeman1378

      Well if it helps Levi will still end up a cripple or with one arm, like Erwin.

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    • You guys seriously think levi die undignified like that?? I wasn t suprise I expect hajime wouldn t kill him after Hanji rescue levi. Heck Armin surviving colossal titan flame is bigger asspull. How is this shock??

      Rest chapter was okay. Still want someone to kill floch I hope jean survive though.

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    • Well looks like Levi is going to be inheriting the Cart Titan.  Not sure how I feel about that, but it's a pretty fitting Titan for him.  Glad we got more of Annie too

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    • Well now we can say for sure that Mr. Leonhart's disappearing cane/groceries isn't just an illustration fluke; They are nowhere to be found in this chapter. 

      I still strongly believe this to be evidence that the paths realm is a physical place contrary to the belief that it's metaphorical or otherwise. 

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    • Sunako30 wrote:
      You guys seriously think levi die undignified like that?? I wasn t suprise I expect hajime wouldn t kill him after Hanji rescue levi. Heck Armin surviving colossal titan flame is bigger asspull. How is this shock??

      Rest chapter was okay. Still want someone to kill floch I hope jean survive though.

      Oh my god don't say it!! 

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    • The people are divided between Eren's actions, as they are a double-edged sword; the Rumbling is dangerous to everyone, no matter who they are.

      How many are truly for Eren's decision?

      How many are against his decision?

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    • This chapter was definitely not something mindbreaking, however, it was still good... but not anywhere nearly as good compared to the chapters we got the few months. obviously, it is natural to have such a dramatic change. 

      Things I liked: Armin snapping, Connie not having changed his mind yet, Floch being a complete ass, Armin rolling out with Gabi on their respective horses to go after Connie. 

      Things I'm thankful for: Annie's origin story. 

      Things I hated: Lack of Zeke Jaeger (lol), Levi being okay with just bandages while having been blasted away from a thunder spear. 

      For me it's an 8/10, and if it wasn't for Armin snapping and having that determination to save Falco chapter would've bene a 6/10 or 7/10.

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    • Isayama spoiled us with amazing storywriting. The worst chapters in the series has better writing than the vast majority of anime nowadays.

      4/5.

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    • This was a chapter I initially enjoyed while I was reading for the first time, but liked less on second read when I was doing it for the wiki's chapter summary, because in doing that, I realized that Chapter 125 is really just a collage of different scenes without a coherent story tying them all together. We spend a few pages here, a few pages there, most to less to catch up with most of our cast post-battle.

      Some of this was good. I liked seeing Armin's breakdown, since he's always tried to make the best of a given situation, but he's finally at the point where he just doesn't have any heart left to spare.

      I also find it interesting that Floch only knew of Eren's plan since ten months ago, since it seems like Eren should have had this ball rolling long before, and Floch came under suspicion for being assigned to Yelena soon after she arrived on Paradis. However, I disagree with Floch essentially being a male Yelena, killing people at the drop of a hat. Floch of the RTS arc was looking for a ruthless leader, but he also called himself a coward and freaked out about things. I miss that Floch.

      Shadis's scene probably could have been cut. We would have presumed he survived even if we didn't see him again this chapter and unless Surma and the other trainees do become some kind of sleeper cell inside the Yeagerists (is there any time for that?) this is a setup that won't pay off.

      Hitch and Annie reuniting was nice, though it was a little too on the nose when their dialogue specifically calls out that Annie is info-dumping her personal backstory to Hitch. Yeah, it's strange to hear Annie confiding in Hitch when she previously never talked about herself to anyone, but I would have accepted it as a narrative convenience. Having Hitch notice and Annie tell her that she needs to vent felt like panels that didn't need to be there.

      It was nice finally seeing Hange and Levi at the end, after them being gone for so long, but like most of this chapter, it felt like it was mostly setup for things to come.

      Now we know where (almost) everyone is, what they intend to, and they're heading on their way.

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    • RuneLai wrote:
      This was a chapter I initially enjoyed while I was reading for the first time, but liked less on second read when I was doing it for the wiki's chapter summary, because in doing that, I realized that Chapter 125 is really just a collage of different scenes without a coherent story tying them all together... Shadis's scene probably could have been cut. We would have presumed he survived even if we didn't see him again this chapter and unless Surma and the other trainees do become some kind of sleeper cell inside the Yeagerists (is there any time for that?) this is a setup that won't pay off.

      Hitch and Annie reuniting was nice, though it was a little too on the nose when their dialogue specifically calls out that Annie is info-dumping her personal backstory to Hitch. 

      It was nice finally seeing Hange and Levi at the end, after them being gone for so long, but like most of this chapter, it felt like it was mostly setup for things to come.

      I agree regarding the scene with Shadis. This was almost a retelling of when we last saw him; beaten up, but still alive with his usual gruff attitude.

      I think the "scattershot" approach was needed just because there are so many plot points that were dangling out and needed to be reeled in (especially with Annie, Hange and Levi.) While Annie did go into exposition overdrive, she had a lot of ground to cover since we had last seen her; while she was asleep, we saw the stories of Reiner, Bertolt and the other Warriors being told over the course of several flashbacks/chapters. Since we are presumably near the end of the series, there wasn't too many options available for Annie.

      Due to the circumstances we last saw them in, I knew it was only a matter of time before we saw both Levi and Hange again. Consider me part of the minority, but I think it would be interesting if Magath kills one of them (just because of how protected they both have been.)

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    • Pros:

      -Hitch getting more screentime, which she honestly should have had more of beforehand.

      -Hitch easily overpowering Annie. Not sure whether Hitch got stronger or Annie got weaker but it's nice to see Annie's initial breakout plan fall apart so quickly.

      -Watching Mr. Leonhardt and Eldians around the world rising up against their oppressors. Something tells me this was Eren's true goal rather than actually destroying the world; inspiring Eldians outside of Paradis to overthrow the enemy in time for Eren to stop the Rumbling himself. Of course, I could be completely wrong about that but I still supprt Eren's plan regardless.

      -Floch taking charge like a bad motha, he don't play around with traitors and cowards. Still think Jean's gonna be the one to finally take him out.

      -Connie and Falco. Team-up needed. Maybe Reiner or Zeke can be sacrificed to Mrs. Springer in lieu of Falco?

      -Hange and Levi are very much alive and well.

      Cons:

      -Annie's little sob story doesn't undo what she's done to the SC in the past. I feel no sympathy for her at all.

      -Armin. That boy is such a traitor. Saying Connie's mom will be "just fine" as a Titan while trying to play nice with the Warriors for what? To get into Annie's panties? Sell out his friends? Side with a world that wants their entire island exterminated? I knew Armin was delusional in trying to make peace with Marley, but I never thought he would vocally state his desire to be friends with the enemy. Erwin never would have even considered sucking up to the enemy.

      -Gabi and Kaya hugging. BARF. But at least it was one small panel and not as "in-your-face-and-you-have-to-like-it-" as her so-called redemption arc from last chapter. Gabi Sue gonna Gabi Sue.

      Neutral:

      -Pieck and Magath. Like I've said before, I don't hate them, but they're Warriors, so they're directly guilty of war crimes.

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    • I agree with your stance on Annie, if I wanted a sob story to make her feel less evil, I would've reread Lost Girls. It told the exact story, but it didn't seem like it was pandering at all. In fact, LG's story arguably showed that Annie has a heart through her actions, not just her saying she has a heart.

      I'm mixed with you on Armin. I feel like Isayama is doing this on purpose just so he will fail at his unrealistic standards. It would be a complete asspull if his plan worked without issue.

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    • RuneLai wrote:
      This was a chapter I initially enjoyed while I was reading for the first time, but liked less on second read when I was doing it for the wiki's chapter summary, because in doing that, I realized that Chapter 125 is really just a collage of different scenes without a coherent story tying them all together. We spend a few pages here, a few pages there, most to less to catch up with most of our cast post-battle.

      Some of this was good. I liked seeing Armin's breakdown, since he's always tried to make the best of a given situation, but he's finally at the point where he just doesn't have any heart left to spare.

      I also find it interesting that Floch only knew of Eren's plan since ten months ago, since it seems like Eren should have had this ball rolling long before, and Floch came under suspicion for being assigned to Yelena soon after she arrived on Paradis. However, I disagree with Floch essentially being a male Yelena, killing people at the drop of a hat. Floch of the RTS arc was looking for a ruthless leader, but he also called himself a coward and freaked out about things. I miss that Floch.

      Shadis's scene probably could have been cut. We would have presumed he survived even if we didn't see him again this chapter and unless Surma and the other trainees do become some kind of sleeper cell inside the Yeagerists (is there any time for that?) this is a setup that won't pay off.

      Hitch and Annie reuniting was nice, though it was a little too on the nose when their dialogue specifically calls out that Annie is info-dumping her personal backstory to Hitch. Yeah, it's strange to hear Annie confiding in Hitch when she previously never talked about herself to anyone, but I would have accepted it as a narrative convenience. Having Hitch notice and Annie tell her that she needs to vent felt like panels that didn't need to be there.

      It was nice finally seeing Hange and Levi at the end, after them being gone for so long, but like most of this chapter, it felt like it was mostly setup for things to come.

      Now we know where (almost) everyone is, what they intend to, and they're heading on their way.

      Actually, Floch was assigned to her soon after the railroad was finished, on the very day it opened. According to Pixis himself when he was interrogating Yelena, that happened 10 months ago (year 853-854), two or so years after Yelena first arrived (year 851). Eren probably informed Floch of Zeke's actual plan soon after Yelena told him of it.

      I'm rather 'meh' on the Shadis scene myself. I like him and that he's getting some more screentime, but that whole part about staging an uprising later down the line after everything is over and done with seems a bit much and inappropriate at the given time.

      I do agree that Annie's info dump could've been shortened. Not to say there shouldn't have been any exposition, but some things weren't all that necessary to add. However, their interaction overall was good, and I liked it.

      Like most others, I agree that Armin's breakdown scene was really well-done. No further words necessary. I do think though that Kaya and Gabi hugging was rushing it a bit.

      Honestly, I also liked Floch's part. I think it reveals his motivations a bit more. He's been ruthless thus far, sure, but in a very coldly efficient way. When we see him try to cheer up Jean, we see actual emotions on his face for the first time in a while; relief and joy. That leads me to believe that he's not really acting out of a sense of blind faith and patriotism, but more that bringing back the Eldian Empire will give him back the freedom he wants, that he can stop worrying about whether he's going to live to see the next day, the enemies across the ocean and the planned genocide they have for the Paradisians, and that he has the freedom to live his life the way he wants to.

      I also have to disagree with the fact that the scenes aren't interconnected in some way. Armin's scene with Mikasa and his later one with Gabi are connected with Connie and Falco's obviously, and the rest of the scenes are all serving to set up something major that's goint to happen. 'Setting up' doesn't mean the plot isn't moving forward after all. It is.

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    • MilesTheMorales1 wrote:
      I agree with your stance on Annie, if I wanted a sob story to make her feel less evil, I would've reread Lost Girls. It told the exact story, but it didn't seem like it was pandering at all. In fact, LG's story arguably showed that Annie has a heart through her actions, not just her saying she has a heart.

      I'm mixed with you on Armin. I feel like Isayama is doing this on purpose just so he will fail at his unrealistic standards. It would be a complete asspull if his plan worked without issue.

      Well I certainly hope Armin fails. Between him and Hange, both have taken the dumbest, most unrealistic path to dealing with the enemy, who STILL wants them all dead btw.

      And while I still HATE Annie (and pretty much all the Warriors), she is nowhere near as bad as Gabi Sue, at least she wasn't a ripoff of a previously established character.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      MilesTheMorales1 wrote:
      I agree with your stance on Annie, if I wanted a sob story to make her feel less evil, I would've reread Lost Girls. It told the exact story, but it didn't seem like it was pandering at all. In fact, LG's story arguably showed that Annie has a heart through her actions, not just her saying she has a heart.

      I'm mixed with you on Armin. I feel like Isayama is doing this on purpose just so he will fail at his unrealistic standards. It would be a complete asspull if his plan worked without issue.

      Well I certainly hope Armin fails. Between him and Hange, both have taken the dumbest, most unrealistic path to dealing with the enemy, who STILL wants them all dead btw.

      And while I still HAE Annie (and pretty much all the Warriors), she is nowhere near as bad as Gabi Sue, at least she wasn't a ripoff of a previously established character.

      Why are you still going with "Gabi Sue", is it because it rolls off the tongue better? Also how is Armin a traitor?

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    • MilesTheMorales1 wrote: I agree with your stance on Annie, if I wanted a sob story to make her feel less evil, I would've reread Lost Girls. It told the exact story, but it didn't seem like it was pandering at all. In fact, LG's story arguably showed that Annie has a heart through her actions, not just her saying she has a heart.

      I'm mixed with you on Armin. I feel like Isayama is doing this on purpose just so he will fail at his unrealistic standards. It would be a complete asspull if his plan worked without issue.

      Okay I am confused, what so unrealistical? And how would it be asspull for Armin?

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    • Peace isn’t how the world works. As long as humanity exists, there will never be peace. There will always be conflicts which leads to tension, which leads to threats, resulting in fear, suspicion, attacks, response, chaos and war. That’s the cycle of society we live in, and talking will never result in permenant peace, as the next generation will forget you.

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    • MilesTheMorales1 wrote: Peace isn’t how the world works. As long as humanity exists, there will never be peace. There will always be conflicts which leads to tension, which leads to threats, resulting in fear, suspicion, attacks, response, chaos and war. That’s the cycle of society we live in, and talking will never result in permenant peace, as the next generation will forget you.

      But the way Eren has chosen to seek freedom will not guarantee peace for anyone. He just declared war on the world and grabbed power to do so. Even if he’s trying to protect his people, he’s become a tyrant and one of the most hated people in existence.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      MilesTheMorales1 wrote:
      I agree with your stance on Annie, if I wanted a sob story to make her feel less evil, I would've reread Lost Girls. It told the exact story, but it didn't seem like it was pandering at all. In fact, LG's story arguably showed that Annie has a heart through her actions, not just her saying she has a heart.

      I'm mixed with you on Armin. I feel like Isayama is doing this on purpose just so he will fail at his unrealistic standards. It would be a complete asspull if his plan worked without issue.

      Well I certainly hope Armin fails. Between him and Hange, both have taken the dumbest, most unrealistic path to dealing with the enemy, who STILL wants them all dead btw.

      And while I still HAE Annie (and pretty much all the Warriors), she is nowhere near as bad as Gabi Sue, at least she wasn't a ripoff of a previously established character.

      Why are you still going with "Gabi Sue", is it because it rolls off the tongue better?

      Also how is Armin a traitor?

      Until and unless Gabi starts facing consequences for her actions and not just be coddled by the author for 'plot purposes', I'll call her what she is.

      And I already explained why Armin is a traitor; he is putting the enemy before his friends. He's concerning himself with what the Warriors will think of him if he lets one of their own die, or lets the Rumbling happen, but basically shuns Connie by telling him his mother doesn't deserve to be brought back, that she should just stay as a Titan for the rest of her life. I call that a traitor. If Armin can't control his urge to get with Annie long enough to actually be there for his friends who have fought with him for years, then he needs to be put down like a dog for the good of Eldia.

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    • Lmao this guy thinks that he is a Yeagerist

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    • Cepis wrote:
      Lmao this guy thinks that he is a Yeagerist

      Honestly it's better than being a Warrior. Those POS slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocents at the beginning of the series, they do not deserve empathy.

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    • Remind me why you forgive and even support Eren and the Eldian empire for their mass slaughters and only condemn Marley's?

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      MilesTheMorales1 wrote: Peace isn’t how the world works. As long as humanity exists, there will never be peace. There will always be conflicts which leads to tension, which leads to threats, resulting in fear, suspicion, attacks, response, chaos and war. That’s the cycle of society we live in, and talking will never result in permenant peace, as the next generation will forget you.

      But the way Eren has chosen to seek freedom will not guarantee peace for anyone. He just declared war on the world and grabbed power to do so. Even if he’s trying to protect his people, he’s become a tyrant and one of the most hated people in existence.

      Well Eren doesn't care if he is hated but he seems to care about having his freedom as well as Paradis well at least what he believes.

      To Miles, to that what you say that is true which is that there is going to be a cycle of violence every now again. And even when there is peace, people just want to see the world burn.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Cepis wrote:
      Lmao this guy thinks that he is a Yeagerist
      Honestly it's better than being a Warrior. Those POS slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocents at the beginning of the series, they do not deserve empathy.

      Eldia technically started this whole thing, but that was never the point Isayama was trying to make. It's not about who started the conflict before you, it's about your actions right now.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Remind me why you forgive and even support Eren and the Eldian empire for their mass slaughters and only condemn Marley's?

      Eren and his friends have been the protagonists from the beginning. They were the victims of Marley and the Warriors. What do you expect them to do, forgive and forget? That's utter nonsense, the Warriors made Eren into what he is, and now their loved ones will pay the price for it. And that suits me just fine.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Eren and his friends have been the protagonists from the beginning. They were the victims of Marley and the Warriors. What do you expect them to do, forgive and forget? That's utter nonsense, the Warriors made Eren into what he is, and now their loved ones will pay the price for it. And that suits me just fine.

      Lets just replace some words to show you how biased this is.

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Marley have been the protagonists from the beginning. They were the victims of Ymir and the Eldian Empire. What do you expect them to do, forgive and forget? That's utter nonsense, the Eldian Empire made Marley into what is is, and now the'll pay the price for it. And that suits me just fine.

      Your 'eye for an eye' mentality is endless and circular, and if anything since Eldia threw the first stone they are the only side your argument could actually apply to.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Eren and his friends have been the protagonists from the beginning. They were the victims of Marley and the Warriors. What do you expect them to do, forgive and forget? That's utter nonsense, the Warriors made Eren into what he is, and now their loved ones will pay the price for it. And that suits me just fine.

      So I guess that killing a 2/3 billions of humans, most of them being civilians, including hundreds of millions of children, numerous billions of animals, etc... All of those victims just to make the Warriors pay for their actions ? That suits you ? Isn't that a bit extreme ? Do you really think it's an objective opinion or at least you're aware of your biased opinion ?

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    • Razzylada wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Eren and his friends have been the protagonists from the beginning. They were the victims of Marley and the Warriors. What do you expect them to do, forgive and forget? That's utter nonsense, the Warriors made Eren into what he is, and now their loved ones will pay the price for it. And that suits me just fine.

      So I guess that killing a 2/3 billions of humans, most of them being civilians, including hundreds of millions of children, numerous billions of animals, etc... All of those victims just to make the Warriors pay for their actions ? That suits you ? Isn't that a bit extreme ? Do you really think it's an objective opinion or at least you're aware of your biased opinion ?

      How is it extreme for Paradis to protect itself from a world that wants them dead? I love how all of you say it's war but simultaneously don't understand the concept of 'kill or be killed'.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      How is it extreme for Paradis to protect itself from a world that wants them dead? I love how all of you say it's war but simultaneously don't understand the concept of 'kill or be killed'.

      This is a non-sequitur.

      Eren doesn't need to destroy the entire world to protect Paradis and you know it. The plan that was agreed upon (Eren, the paradis leadership, even Zeke) was to only use enough force to disable the enemy, not to wipe out all life outside the walls.

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    • Razzylada wrote:

      So I guess that killing a 2/3 billions of humans, most of them being civilians, including hundreds of millions of children, numerous billions of animals, etc... 


      Just saying and a bit off topic here, but we don't know in the World of AoT,  the entire world  population, is even in the billions, or even close to a billion people. Like to think in the manga, it's in the 100 millions of people in total. Just food for thought?

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Razzylada wrote:

      So I guess that killing a 2/3 billions of humans, most of them being civilians, including hundreds of millions of children, numerous billions of animals, etc... 

      Just saying and a bit off topic here, but we don't know in the World of AoT,  the entire world  population, is even in the billions, or even close to a billion people. Like to think in the manga, it's in the 100 millions of people in total. Just food for thought?

      I take as reference the number of inhabitants on Earth in the 40s. I think it was about one or two billion. One hundred million is far too low

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    • Razzylada wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Razzylada wrote:

      So I guess that killing a 2/3 billions of humans, most of them being civilians, including hundreds of millions of children, numerous billions of animals, etc... 

      Just saying and a bit off topic here, but we don't know in the World of AoT,  the entire world  population, is even in the billions, or even close to a billion people. Like to think in the manga, it's in the 100 millions of people in total. Just food for thought?

      I take as reference the number of inhabitants on Earth in the 40s. I think it was about one or two billion. One hundred million is far too low

      Well I didn't mean to say like just 100 millions I mean like somewhere in the hundreds of millions of people, like 500-800 millions of people for example.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      How is it extreme for Paradis to protect itself from a world that wants them dead? I love how all of you say it's war but simultaneously don't understand the concept of 'kill or be killed'.

      This is a non-sequitur.

      Eren doesn't need to destroy the entire world to protect Paradis and you know it. The plan that was agreed upon (Eren, the paradis leadership, even Zeke) was to only use enough force to disable the enemy, not to wipe out all life outside the walls.

      Alright then, even if Eren doesn't have to, why should we care if he does? It's not like the world doesn't deserve it. I can't muster any sympathy for anyone outside the Walls not named Falco (or maybe Colt), so I'm perfectly okay with the series ending with the world being destroyed and the survivors on Paradis having to rebuild.

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    • Too be honest this is one of my favourites arc And feels liks this last few months has been build up. I love how Eren has become now. Glad too see Levi survive it obvious though. Once again floch forster being asshole and use force and intimidation to get things done. I love Eren But why he trust this guy so much is why I don t get he is crazy,completely asshole and has no qualm and take a sadistic glee in killing hos former allies. Eren doesn t take glee and sadism unlike Floch he just get things done

      Armin has rather dissapointing and useless. Honestly all he does is whine and complain. His idealism and naivety turn me off. Eren has a point when he call out at Armin at chapter 112. A friend of mine who read this isn t impress with Armin Same for myself.

      I just hope Jean doesn t become casualty.He is one of my favourites characters. Connie is at least decisive unlike Armin

      Mikasa need to grow a spine and make decision on her own she is too much follower and so indecisive in making decisions. I hope now she help out jean and take down Floch.

      As for what I think about Eren goal. I don t see it as evil or anything like that. He is simply self defense himself nothing more. I won t call his act evil  But its horrible. It is neccesary evil.

      Eren is Anti villian. While Floch is Suppose to be anti villian but a villian now for his unnecessary sadism and cruelty.

      I am pretty sure Hanji is smart enough to convince Magath and pieck not to kill her and Levi. I am not worried.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Remind me why you forgive and even support Eren and the Eldian empire for their mass slaughters and only condemn Marley's?

      I think it may have to do with some of these factors:

      1)  Marley and the rest of the world originally hated Eldians due to the atrocities committed by people who are no longer alive.  Eren and his friends, on the other hand, were harmed by people who are still alive.

      2)  Marley may have been the one who was wronged the most by the Eldian Empire, but they've also continued the Eldian cycle of hate when they practiced colonization (they've also continued other nations' hate toward Eldians).  Plus, Marley never even took responsibility for attacking Paradis, and instead they tricked Eren into attacking a lot of ambassadors, causing Marley's former enemies to hate Paradis even more (as well as continue the same old cycle yet again).  Marley should have just admitted their mistakes and true reasons to the world (even if it means losing non-existant credibility), and surrendered ownership of a good chunk of their territory and gave those territories their independence, as an apology (both toward Paradis and their former enemies).  That could have removed alot of hate towards Marley (especially hatred from Paradis) and avoided creating the monster that Eren became (who was even willing to look for peaceful solutions before losing hope for it due to people hating on Paradis even when they were a passive force, as well as when they only attacked Liberio as a counter to remove potential invaders for good).  Plus, did the world never consider the possibility that Eren only attacked out of retaliation for Marley attacking them first?  If they never considered that, and instead frame Paradis as the bad guys, then I'm pretty sure they all deserve to die for that dumb mentality of theirs.  Why should I feel sympathy for any of them?

      Edit:  Oh, and as for killing civilians:  While I understand being against killing citizens outside of Marley, the Marleyan civilians were stated by this Wiki to be taking war for granted, and don't seem to be changing that anytime soon.  Plus, there's still a lot of potential for even non-Marleyan civilians to take up arms against Paradis for revenge anyways.  Plus, destroying every human on the outside world and killing dissenting Paradisians that Eren can't brainwash could possibly be an effective way of ending the revenge cycle for good.  Plus, Eren could make up for all those deaths by generating even more living people on those dead lands, reviving them like a phoenix revives itself.  He may have killed lots of people, but he could end up creating even more lives to replace the dead and bring the world's human population back up to its previous number.

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    • Sunako30 wrote: Too be honest this is one of my favourites arc And feels liks this last few months has been build up. I love how Eren has become now. Glad too see Levi survive it obvious though. Once again floch forster being asshole and use force and intimidation to get things done. I love Eren But why he trust this guy so much is why I don t get he is crazy,completely asshole and has no qualm and take a sadistic glee in killing hos former allies. Eren doesn t take glee and sadism unlike Floch he just get things done

      Armin has rather dissapointing and useless. Honestly all he does is whine and complain. His idealism and naivety turn me off. Eren has a point when he call out at Armin at chapter 112. A friend of mine who read this isn t impress with Armin Same for myself.

      I just hope Jean doesn t become casualty.He is one of my favourites characters. Connie is at least decisive unlike Armin

      Mikasa need to grow a spine and make decision on her own she is too much follower and so indecisive in making decisions. I hope now she help out jean and take down Floch.

      As for what I think about Eren goal. I don t see it as evil or anything like that. He is simply self defense himself nothing more. I won t call his act evil  But its horrible. It is neccesary evil.

      Eren is Anti villian. While Floch is Suppose to be anti villian but a villian now for his unnecessary sadism and cruelty.

      I am pretty sure Hanji is smart enough to convince Magath and pieck not to kill her and Levi. I am not worried.

      I kinda agree Floch needs to be taken down a notch. However you ask why Floch is trusted by Eren its because like Floch says way before we need a "demon" to defeat their enemies. Of course he was talking about Erwin to do just that, but Eren has become the Demon to take Erwin's place. Plus he is type of person to take orders and take action, he is under that whole restore Eldia impression along with others like him.

      I also disagree on Armin, okay I understand where the "disappointment" is coming, but he is far from useless. Right now he is dealing with a lot of stress between a situation that has become FUBAR, Eren trying to destroy the world and of course the Falco situation. I think he at least doing something than just whining and complaining, which by the way is dumb and generic way of putting it.

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:

      I think it may have to do with some of these factors:

      1)  Marley and the rest of the world originally hated Eldians due to the atrocities committed by people who are no longer alive.  Eren and his friends, on the other hand, were harmed by people who are still alive.

      You realize that the worldwide tyranny of the eldian empire isn't some irrelevant ancient history right. Karl Fritz building the walls and threatening to crush the rest of the world with the rumbling if they displeased him happened only a few decades (a century max) before the start of the series. Grandparents of the older people that are alive in the series at the moment would have lived through it.

      As far as Marley are concerned the eldian empire is alive and well and capable of flattening them at any moment. They didn't know that Fritz brainwashed his own people into forgetting that they're the eldian empire.  Neither do they know about the vow to renounce war or that the founder can only by used by royal blood (Not that either of those things stopped Eren anyway, meaning their concerns were entirely justified).

      That's why they sent the warriors to paradis, to secure the founder and remove the threat. Of course the warriors killed a lot of people but you can see how they'd think it was justified to literally save the world.

      Drivebladesman wrote: Plus, destroying every human on the outside world and killing dissenting Paradisians that Eren can't brainwash could possibly be an effective way of ending the revenge cycle for good.  Plus, Eren could make up for all those deaths by generating even more living people on those dead lands, reviving them like a phoenix revives itself.  He may have killed lots of people, but he could end up creating even more lives to replace the dead and bring the world's human population back up to its previous number.

      This is some sick perspective. You're literally describing a 'final solution'.

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    • BTW I am fully aware that Marley themselves are a horrible regime and would likely have no problem with wiping out all life on Paradis and taking their territory/resources once the main objective of securing the founder was complete. But despite their racist attitude towards eldians, they didn't actually wipe out the eldians within their reach on the mainland. They could have just killed them all and only kept enough alive for their warrior program if they so desired, but they didn't. They are allowed to live, albeit as second class citizens.

      So I doubt they would actually want to commit genocide on the present paradis eldians once their innocence due to Fritz's brainwashing became apparent. They would likely be treated just like all the marleyan subjects of ymir rather than being exterminated.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Drivebladesman wrote:

      I think it may have to do with some of these factors:

      1)  Marley and the rest of the world originally hated Eldians due to the atrocities committed by people who are no longer alive.  Eren and his friends, on the other hand, were harmed by people who are still alive.

      You realize that the worldwide tyranny of the eldian empire isn't some irrelevant ancient history right. Karl Fritz building the walls and threatening to crush the rest of the world with the rumbling if they displeased him happened only a few decades (a century max) before the start of the series. Grandparents of the older people that are alive in the series at the moment would have lived through it.

      As far as Marley are concerned the eldian empire is alive and well and capable of flattening them at any moment. They didn't know that Fritz brainwashed his own people into forgetting that they're the eldian empire.  Neither do they know about the vow to renounce war or that the founder can only by used by royal blood (Not that either of those things stopped Eren anyway, meaning their concerns were entirely justified).

      That's why they sent the warriors to paradis, to secure the founder and remove the threat. Of course the warriors killed a lot of people but you can see how they'd think it was justified to literally save the world.


      Drivebladesman wrote: Plus, destroying every human on the outside world and killing dissenting Paradisians that Eren can't brainwash could possibly be an effective way of ending the revenge cycle for good.  Plus, Eren could make up for all those deaths by generating even more living people on those dead lands, reviving them like a phoenix revives itself.  He may have killed lots of people, but he could end up creating even more lives to replace the dead and bring the world's human population back up to its previous number.
      This is some sick perspective. You're literally describing a 'final solution'.

      I thought the raising of the Walls happened a century ago, and that there was no doubt about that.  Wouldn't that make your point about grandparents debunked, since nearly nobody lives to age 100?  Even then, the Eldians who happened to be alive at the time would have to have been infants or toddlers, who (especially the former) obviously wouldn't remember their childhoods, by the present era,.



      Yeah, I'm aware that most Marleyans are unaware of Karl Wheezer's pacifism and that threats of the Rumbling are a lie; however, I remember a few mentions of Marley's military (such as the Warriors, Tom Xaver, and possibly Magath (though my memory's more fuzzy for the third guy)) telling others that the current Coordinate holder is mentally bound by a vow of pacifism.  Thus I'm pretty sure that Calvi and the other Marleyan elite know the truth about the King (after all, it does make you wonder how some of these people know about that).



      Even if the imps wanted to remove the threat of the Rumbling, shouldn't they have put their brains to work and ponder why Paradis was so passive for a century?



      Again, why should I value the lives of the people outside of Paradis?  Most of them are beyond saving and not worth keeping alive, since they're part of the majority of humanity that keeps on failing and not learning their lessons properly.  Plus, Eren could potentially use the Founding Titan to modify most surviving humans to mentally evolve and become internally better (even being a mindless drone would be better than being full of fail and inability to learn).



      Also, I do gotta ask:  Why wouldn't the logic of "reviving" the population after wiping out nearly all of them work?



      As for not exterminating all Eldians, the only reason for that was because Marley wanted to exploit the Titans for use as superweapons, nothing more.  Also, sure they could keep only enough Eldians alive for use as Warriors, but I'm pretty sure they let more continue living so they have some "spares" in case they end up with an insufficient amount of Shifters.

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:

      I thought the raising of the Walls happened a century ago, and that there was no doubt about that.  Wouldn't that make your point about grandparents debunked, since nearly nobody lives to age 100?  Even then, the Eldians who happened to be alive at the time would have to have been infants or toddlers, who (especially the former) obviously wouldn't remember their childhoods, by the present era,.

      l'm saying that the grandparents of people who are alive today (understand what I'm saying here, I'm not saying the grandparents are alive today, I'm saying the people who they were grandparents OF are alive and in positions of power) were persecuted by the empire and lived through the great titan war first hand. They know all about the 'devils' because that description was actually true at the time. It was eldians battling and literally eating each other to gain power, with the other nations under their thumbs the whole time and likely being used as cannon fodder. Pure titans were weapons of war and levelled entire cities in the fighting.

      So the view of those 'devils' is still ingrained in the culture and has been passed onto the current generation by people who experienced it. They are the ones who came up with this operation paradis plan and set it in motion so that what they lived through never happens again.

      Drivebladesman wrote:
      Again, why should I value the lives of the people outside of Paradis?  Most of them are beyond saving and not worth keeping alive, since they're part of the majority of humanity that keeps on failing and not learning their lessons properly.  Plus, Eren could potentially use the Founding Titan to modify most surviving humans to mentally evolve and become internally better (even being a mindless drone would be better than being full of fail and inability to learn).

      Who are you to judge that? Practically every outsider who actually understands what's going on within the walls (that most of them aren't devils anymore) has become gradually less and less racist to the point where they start self-loathing because of the lies they've been indoctrinated with. And the Marleyans who get screen time in the series happen to be child soldiers that have been trained their entire lives specifically to kill paradis eldians. That is, they're the ones who should be the worst of the worst when it comes to prejudice. And even THEY quickly learn the errors of their ways when exposed to the truth.

      Not to mention Eren is destroying the entire world indiscriminately here, not just the tiny proportion who actually know the truth and continue with their prejudices despite knowing better. Are you saying Grisha was incapable of learning and would deserve to die if the rumbling happened to occur 15 years earlier? The asians? The foreign refugees they got drunk with in the tent? The volunteers?

      Drivebladesman wrote:

      Also, I do gotta ask:  Why wouldn't the logic of "reviving" the population after wiping out nearly all of them work?

      As for not exterminating all Eldians, the only reason for that was because Marley wanted to exploit the Titans for use as superweapons, nothing more.  Also, sure they could keep only enough Eldians alive for use as Warriors, but I'm pretty sure they let more continue living so they have some "spares" in case they end up with an insufficient amount of Shifters.

      Are you seriously asking why genocide of a people judged as 'inferior' to make way for a 'superior race' is a terrible thing?

      And they clearly don't just keep the entire eldian population (hundreds of thousands) around as 'spares', that's an absurd demonization of Marley to try to force the narrative that they are completely evil and beyond hope for redemption. They allow the eldians to live somewhat normal lives. Yes they are second class citizens who suffer instititutional discrimination and poverty, but they are afforded the right to exist. Something that Eren has denied everyone outside the walls.

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    • Geez as there is a saying that "those who don't learn from history, dooms to repeat history". And also even if say that it happened once it won't happen again except it can happen again decades or centuries later, nothing will change UNLESS someone (or someones) can see it to assure that come again.

      P.s. @Drivebladesman "Karl Wheezer" is that a Jimmy Newtron reference?

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      P.s. @Drivebladesman "Karl Wheezer" is that a Jimmy Newtron reference?

      You got that right.  It was just a silly little nickname I found funny.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      Geez as there is a saying that "those who don't learn from history, dooms to repeat history". And also even if say that it happened once it won't happen again except it can happen again decades or centuries later, nothing will change UNLESS someone (or someones) can see it to assure that come again.

      P.s. @Drivebladesman "Karl Wheezer" is that a Jimmy Newtron reference?

      You're portraying this as if Eren is somehow fixing the problem of violence and oppression by killing everybody which is completely absurd. It's the ultimate form of violence and oppression, the most evil thing he could possibly do.

      It's like saying you've cured a disease by killing everybody who could possibly contract it.

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    • Hey guys, it has been a while since doing forums and comments. I have read many of your comments and they are interesting. However, the AOT manga isn't about whose right or wrong. Everyone have their own reasons to fight. While some of these people like humanity outside paradise and Marley Warriors believes taking out Paradise will bring peace. Even Zeke Yeager believes that sterilising Eldians will bring peace also. But to me, I believe that the outsiders are wrong. Wiping out a species who ancestors done terrible things in the past won't bring peace. For a starters, Zeke and humanity wanted to destroy paradise & Eldians because of centuries old history. Not to mention Zeke probably doing it because he has Mummy and Daddy issues. However, Eren Yeager is about to wipe out humanity because he knows that they are a threat towards Paradisians (his people). Like Eren said, that their hatred towards Eldians won't only destroy Paradise, but all Eldian kind as well, during his telepathic announcement.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Geez as there is a saying that "those who don't learn from history, dooms to repeat history". And also even if say that it happened once it won't happen again except it can happen again decades or centuries later, nothing will change UNLESS someone (or someones) can see it to assure that come again.

      P.s. @Drivebladesman "Karl Wheezer" is that a Jimmy Newtron reference?

      You're portraying this as if Eren is somehow fixing the problem of violence and oppression by killing everybody which is completely absurd. It's the ultimate form of violence and oppression, the most evil thing he could possibly do.

      It's like saying you've cured a disease by killing everybody who could possibly contract it.

      How does that not work?  If Eren were to exterminate every single non-Eldian and brainwash every Eldian into mindless puppets that can never feel grief or grudge (a la Bhunivelze), then wouldn't the cycle of vengeance die with the humans (since there's nothing to hint that non-Eldians have ghosts, like Eldians could potentially have in things like the Paths realm or communication with the Attack Titan through space and time)?  The only flaw would be that Ymir's probably not completely under Eren's control.



      I know what point you're trying to make about disease, but one could theoritically destroy a disease by killing all potential carriers, if the disease cannot be transmitted through dead lifeforms.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:
      Geez as there is a saying that "those who don't learn from history, dooms to repeat history". And also even if say that it happened once it won't happen again except it can happen again decades or centuries later, nothing will change UNLESS someone (or someones) can see it to assure that come again.

      P.s. @Drivebladesman "Karl Wheezer" is that a Jimmy Newtron reference?

      You're portraying this as if Eren is somehow fixing the problem of violence and oppression by killing everybody which is completely absurd. It's the ultimate form of violence and oppression, the most evil thing he could possibly do.

      It's like saying you've cured a disease by killing everybody who could possibly contract it.

      I wasn't portraying Eren anything I was making statement that a là to real history.

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