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    • This chapter is awesome and makes me sad. The title is true. 

      So... Annie is back and Armin is gonna killed, but he is still alive.

      P.S.: Everyone, how y'all feeling in this chapter?

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    • Overall, I liked the chapter. It was far from being of the greatest, but it wasn't mean to be, we're still in the transition chapters between 122 and the "facing Eren" (if it takes place).

      Pros :

      - The gore. That was probably one of the goriest chapter we've ever had in SnK (even if I personnally don't really consider that as a gore chapter, but for SnK's standards it is). Big up to zombie Armin.

      - Daz/Samuel vs Armin/Connie. Firstly, is was a big surprize to see Samuel and Daz in this chapter (seriously, who would have thought that we'd get to see them before we'd get to see Eren or Historia again?). But the most interesting part is the confrontation between the two sides. It reminds me a lot of events that occured during the Clash of Titans arc/Season 2 : when the Scouts are on the Armored Titan, and Bertolt says that the moments he passed with them were honests, that he really enjoyed being with them, that it wasn't all a lie. Now, Armin/Connie are playing the role of Bertolt here, saying that they did enjoy being friends with Daz and Samuel, that they're not "bad", but they have to kill them anyway because they don't relly have a choice (Bertolt being like "No, you're not demons, but you have to die anyway"). Alos, this scene had similarities with the reveal of Bertolt/Reiner being Titan shifters (the revelation of them being traitors), especially as both times the hold of the Colossal Titan has been hurt and transforms right after (it's not a big issue to assume Armin will transform). 

      However, the scene would have been more powerfull if we were more familiar with Daz and Samuel. They've been absent from the story since chapters 4 and 12. They should have been introduced again earlier to get us to sympathetize with them. But I totally get that from Armin and Connie's perspective, it's horrible to be forced to end up killing them, and now, they totally understand Bertolt.

      - Properly speaking, it's not in the chapter, but it's an hypothesis for the future one : Isayama probably has the intention of having Reiner surviving at least for a few chapters. There are chances that he will be impressive in the fight to come, which would be a good thing because the Armored Titan hasn't been a real threat since... The first Battle of Shiganshina ?

      - I was afraid that they planed to have Onyankopon to control the plane, as he's already piloted airships (but it would have been stupid indeed, both vehicles aren't the same at all). But they brought the Azumabito's engineers for that, which is good, and also coherent.

      - Yelena's sentence, "You can't take violence away from people". It was another reminder of Isayama that the story isn't going to end with a peaceful ending, and that the peace some characters seek for is a dream. 

      Cons :

      - Kiyomi suddenly going full Naruto or whatever. The fact that she tries to resist is a thing, but if she has a military training or something like that, why haven't we never heard of it ? Especially as the way it is executed looks more ridiculous than anything. I get that she takes advantage of surprizing Floch, but he's still in his twenties and is a trained soldier.

      - The Wall Titans have reached Marley's coast or are close to. At first I thought they were far to speed, but after a few maths I did myself, with a lot of approximations, covering such a distance in 48 hours isn't that impressive. However, the "cons" there is that it seems that with such an anouncement, I've got the feeling that the story is still extending, and we're not going to see the end soon. At first, I thought that the harbor would be the place of the final battle, with the Scouts reaching the place a few hours before Eren/The Wall Titans (which would have allowed us to see Eren's form probably in chapter 130). But now, we might have the final battle in Marley ? I would have prefered on Paradise. Especially has it just extends the story.

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    • The first half of this issue seemed to really drag on for me, but the ending more than made up for it. For a second, I forgot that Armin was one of the Nine so I was concerned he may die due to his actions here. I can't be the only one who wants to see Falco transform into the Jaw Titan; I know he's untrained but the wait is just killing me.

      I was surprised about Magath's "face" turn here. I think it was a little abrupt but it's good to see that he is now willing to acknowledge that both Marley and Paradis are the same; seeing him actively working with both Jean and Hange was pretty cool to see.

      Finally, with all that talk about wiping away Hizuru's culture and repeating how Kiyomi and the others 'need to know your place', Floch has essentially become like Marley: a supremacist. You can't convince me otherwise.

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    • Technically Samuel was confirmed dead in a databook, so we have a minor retcon here I guess. However his Death was never referenced to in both the manga and the anime, so it doesn't bother me. we can simply assume that he joined the Garrison and eventually ended up in the Yeagerist faction.

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    • Razzylada wrote:
       

      - Daz/Samuel vs Armin/Connie. Firstly, is was a big surprize to see Samuel and Daz in this chapter. The most interesting part is the confrontation between the two sides.... However, the scene would have been more powerfull if we were more familiar with Daz and Samuel. They've been absent from the story since chapters 4 and 12. They should have been introduced again earlier to get us to sympathetize with them. But I totally get that from Armin and Connie's perspective, it's horrible to be forced to end up killing them, and now, they totally understand Bertolt.

      I agree with you regarding Daz and Samuel; to be honest, I don't even remember them from back in the Training Corps. It would have been nice for us to see them interact with 'The A-Team' before now instead of just being unseen background characters this whole time.

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    • It's happening...

      When the Marleyans are leaving the Yeagerist, but what about Eren? When Eren will it appear in next chapter? Volume 32 is the final volume or not?

      I wanna stop ask the questions, but yes Chapter 130 is final chapter and Volume 32 too.

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    • Elal08 wrote: It's happening...

      When the Marleyans are leaving the Yeagerist, but what about Eren? When Eren will it appear in next chapter? Volume 32 is the final volume or not?

      I wanna stop ask the questions, but yes Chapter 130 is final chapter and Volume 32 too.

      Are you serious?

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    • Winston4278 wrote:

      Razzylada wrote:
       

      - Daz/Samuel vs Armin/Connie. Firstly, is was a big surprize to see Samuel and Daz in this chapter. The most interesting part is the confrontation between the two sides.... However, the scene would have been more powerfull if we were more familiar with Daz and Samuel. They've been absent from the story since chapters 4 and 12. They should have been introduced again earlier to get us to sympathetize with them. But I totally get that from Armin and Connie's perspective, it's horrible to be forced to end up killing them, and now, they totally understand Bertolt.

      I agree with you regarding Daz and Samuel; to be honest, I don't even remember them from back in the Training Corps. It would have been nice for us to see them interact with 'The A-Team' before now instead of just being unseen background characters this whole time.

      All I remember that Daz was always seen scared shitless and Samuel well was hanging from a wall by Sasha. Although if we are seeing old characters from way before, what happened to the other Garrison regiment members such as Rico and Kitz ? I take it they don't make much of a appearance due to time constraints I guess.

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    • Winston4278 wrote: The first half of this issue seemed to really drag on for me, but the ending more than made up for it. For a second, I forgot that Armin was one of the Nine so I was concerned he may die due to his actions here. I can't be the only one who wants to see Falco transform into the Jaw Titan; I know he's untrained but the wait is just killing me.

      I was surprised about Magath's "face" turn here. I think it was a little abrupt but it's good to see that he is now willing to acknowledge that both Marley and Paradis are the same; seeing him actively working with both Jean and Hange was pretty cool to see.

      Finally, with all that talk about wiping away Hizuru's culture and repeating how Kiyomi and the others 'need to know your place', Floch has essentially become like Marley: a supremacist. You can't convince me otherwise.

      Floch has become the very thing he hates, he comes from a honest standpoint as he wants to protect his people as a soldier does but he is taking things far to the point where the hypocrisy on both sides are real.

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    • Well this chapter was good but I had a feeling things were gonna go south from the beginning, so it was rather predictable but it did offer some nuance to the characters and understood the things what they (via what Bertolt said before), making this whole chapter a tragedy.

      That said it was a slow burn but there is progress but not much to go on.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Elal08 wrote: It's happening...

      When the Marleyans are leaving the Yeagerist, but what about Eren? When Eren will it appear in next chapter? Volume 32 is the final volume or not?

      I wanna stop ask the questions, but yes Chapter 130 is final chapter and Volume 32 too.

      Are you serious?

      Nope...

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      All I remember that Daz was always seen scared shitless and Samuel well was hanging from a wall by Sasha. Although if we are seeing old characters from way before, what happened to the other Garrison regiment members such as Rico and Kitz ? I take it they don't make much of a appearance due to time constraints I guess.

      It's not like they had any role apart of that.

      Samuel didn't have any scene beside of the one at the top of the wall (the appaearance of the Colossus in Trost) and a few cameos in flashbacks (I remember seeing him in the Annie vs Mikasa flashback). He might have appeared in one of the two cameos of the Scouts Training, but I don't remember him in then.

      Daz had a """"bigger"""" role by being the first one to protest against Pixis's plan to reconquer Trost, he is even threatened by Kitz to be executed. We saw him in the OVA where the Scouts are facing a group of kidnappers, but not a big role there (as always). I remember seeing him in the Annie vs Mikasa flashback. And he was the one Christa tried to save in their snow training, in the forest, but it's Ymir who saved him in the end. 

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    • So Floch is a full-blown fascist at this point. Can somebody please kill this POS already?

      It was nice seeing Daz and Samuel again, even if they were on the wrong side of things. In a less desperate situation, I feel like Armin might have been able to convince them to switch sides.

      Can't wait to see the Armored and Female titans kick some ass!

      No complaints about this chapter. It brought the slow burn to an end and escalated the action into what should be the start of the final battle.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:
      So Floch is a full-blown fascist at this point. Can somebody please kill this POS already?

      It was nice seeing Daz and Samuel again, even if they were on the wrong side of things. In a less desperate situation, I feel like Armin might have been able to convince them to switch sides.

      Can't wait to see the Armored and Female titans kick some ass!

      No complaints about this chapter. It brought the slow burn to an end and escalated the action into what should be the start of the final battle.

      That's true, but Daz and Samuel are back and Armored and Female titans too. So... the final battle is over soon... Do you have no words?

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    • Elal08 wrote:

      CaptFredricks wrote:
      So Floch is a full-blown fascist at this point. Can somebody please kill this POS already?

      It was nice seeing Daz and Samuel again, even if they were on the wrong side of things. In a less desperate situation, I feel like Armin might have been able to convince them to switch sides.

      Can't wait to see the Armored and Female titans kick some ass!

      No complaints about this chapter. It brought the slow burn to an end and escalated the action into what should be the start of the final battle.

      That's true, but Daz and Samuel are back and Armored and Female titans too. So... the final battle is over soon... Do you have no words?

      I'm sad that the series is coming to a close (so is one of my other favorite mangas -- Kimetsu no Yaiba), but I'm excited to see what Isayama does for the finale.

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    • Well, I'm glad that Magath admitted that he and Marley were wrong for hating Paradisians, and feels remorseful about it, too.  As someone who does not like Marley, I would still forgive him.



      Also, about the Yeagerists being unable to make their bomb detonate:  That was embarrassing.  X)

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      Elal08 wrote:

      CaptFredricks wrote:
      So Floch is a full-blown fascist at this point. Can somebody please kill this POS already?

      It was nice seeing Daz and Samuel again, even if they were on the wrong side of things. In a less desperate situation, I feel like Armin might have been able to convince them to switch sides.

      Can't wait to see the Armored and Female titans kick some ass!

      No complaints about this chapter. It brought the slow burn to an end and escalated the action into what should be the start of the final battle.

      That's true, but Daz and Samuel are back and Armored and Female titans too. So... the final battle is over soon... Do you have no words?
      I'm sad that the series is coming to a close (so is one of my other favorite mangas -- Kimetsu no Yaiba), but I'm excited to see what Isayama does for the finale.

      So... We talk about AOT manga and new chapter, not Demon Slayer

      P.S.: I not feel angry

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    • Elal08 wrote: So... We talk about AOT manga and new chapter, not Demon Slayer

      P.S.: I not feel angry

      Of course. I was merely pointing out that two of my favorite mangas are ending pretty soon and it makes me sad.

      I pretty much said everything I had to say about this chapter in my first comment. It's a solid 8.5/10 chapter I'd say.

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    • Pros:

      -The title of the chapter is fittingly appropriate, since the remaining 104th seem to have decided to betray their own people in favor of helping Marley. I am not at all displeased by the notion that in the unlikely scenario that they successfully stop the Rumbling, they would not be welcomed back onto Paradis, or possible imprisoned or killed for treason.

      -Plenty of action in this chapter to make up for the dragged-out exposition that most of the last few chapters have been defined by. 

      -Zombie Armin. 

      -Samuel and Daz being Yeagerists. Good to see some of the original SC members have not betrayed their own people, and this convinces me now more than ever that Erwin would have supported the Rumbling.

      Cons:

      -Gabi Sue is still alive

      -Magath suddenly apologizing for being a POS, as if that will erase his crimes. Like the rest of the Warriors, it's too late for Magath to suddenly be "redeemed" after what he's done, and it's insulting that he will be seen as some brave and strong person for finally figuring out Eldians did nothing wrong.

      -Floch getting owned by Kiyomi. A man as take-charge as himself should have just killed her before she could cause any more trouble for them.

      -Reiner and Annie getting most of the Titan action and will likely decimate the Yeagerists. As if making them the "good guys" and Eren the "bad guy" wasn't insulting enough after all these years.

      8/10 for me, needs more Eren, needs to show Historia, needs to kill off any Warrior that's not Falco already

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    • Elal08 wrote:
      It's happening...

      When the Marleyans are leaving the Yeagerist, but what about Eren? When Eren will it appear in next chapter? Volume 32 is the final volume or not?

      I wanna stop ask the questions, but yes Chapter 130 is final chapter and Volume 32 too.

      Chapter 130 was NEVER confirmed to be the last chp, and it seems like that def won't be the case either. 135-140 is a better estimate

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    • I thought this chp was very interesting, and I'm glad Reiner and Magath had the realizations they did this chp. Reiner finally realized what Eren meant back in Liberio, and that whole moment was proof he was never the villain he seemed to be for 2 years now, and Magath finally realized his own folly as well, which he touched up on around the same time when he admitted him and Willy were devils too.  I truly do believe this unity is what Eren is trying to make happen with the rumbling, while not totally going down the Code Geass route. He'll see that he created unity and then show he never meant the attack and cease the rumbling.

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    • this was an okay chapter and all but can we get to the final battle already

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    • Tommy,Klaus&Kol2012+
      Tommy,Klaus&Kol2012+ removed this reply because:
      not needed
      02:49, April 12, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Also, just a theory on my part: Hanje can only see the steam of the titans in the distance, but not what they're actually doing.  She's only infereing they're destroying, but what if the steam is a literal smokescreen?  As with all the evidence that there is that his plan isn't to rumble the world, least of all how it doesn't add up with his development, what if he wants the "avengers" to think Marley is being destroyed, but there just standing there emitting smoke? This sounds weird I know, but Eren has literally said post-time skip to Reiner, in the same moment the latter remembered this chp, that he no longer sees the whole world as enemies, so why would he kill all of them? 

      The destruction of Marley hasn't been confirmed yet, and I doubt Isayama would leave something like that up for debate if the city was going to be destroyed anyway. Plus, its ironic that Eren didn't choose to destroy Marley back in chp 100-04, when he literally had the city by the throat, and could've left it in the same state that the warriors left his hometown in years before.

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    • Attackcjc wrote: Also, just a theory on my part: Hanje can only see the steam of the titans in the distance, but not what they're actually doing.  She's only infereing they're destroying, but what if the steam is a literal smokescreen?  As with all the evidence that there is that his plan isn't to rumble the world, least of all how it doesn't add up with his development, what if he wants the "avengers" to think Marley is being destroyed, but there just standing there emitting smoke? This sounds weird I know, but Eren has literally said post-time skip to Reiner, in the same moment the latter remembered this chp, that he no longer sees the whole world as enemies, so why would he kill all of them? 

      The destruction of Marley hasn't been confirmed yet, and I doubt Isayama would leave something like that up for debate if the city was going to be destroyed anyway. Plus, its ironic that Eren didn't choose to destroy Marley back in chp 100-04, when he literally had the city by the throat, and could've left it in the same state that the warriors left his hometown in years before.

      Great points!

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      Plus, its ironic that Eren didn't choose to destroy Marley back in chp 100-04, when he literally had the city by the throat, and could've left it in the same state that the warriors left his hometown in years before.

      Well, the reason Eren didn't destroy all of Marley back at Liberio is because he knew that was the path he had to take in order to free Ymir Fritz from her slave mentality.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
       

      -Magath suddenly apologizing for being a POS, as if that will erase his crimes. Like the rest of the Warriors, it's too late for Magath to suddenly be "redeemed" after what he's done, and it's insulting that he will be seen as some brave and strong person for finally figuring out Eldians did nothing wrong.


      As someone who hated Magath for being patriotic to a country of evil, I gotta say that, assuming he's genuinely remorseful, you should be more willing to forgive him or at least wait and see what he does to possibly atone for it.  Plus, because of that, my hate toward him as toned down considerably.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      -Samuel and Daz being Yeagerists. Good to see some of the original SC members have not betrayed their own people, and this convinces me now more than ever that Erwin would have supported the Rumbling.

      Sam and Daz are Garrison not SC. This I doubt they’d know a thing about what Erwin would want it what he’d support

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    • Deppintosh wrote: Technically Samuel was confirmed dead in a databook, so we have a minor retcon here I guess. However his Death was never referenced to in both the manga and the anime, so it doesn't bother me. we can simply assume that he joined the Garrison and eventually ended up in the Yeagerist faction.

      Thank you! I was so confused she’s I thought for sure I heard somewhere he bit the dust

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
       

      -Magath suddenly apologizing for being a POS, as if that will erase his crimes. Like the rest of the Warriors, it's too late for Magath to suddenly be "redeemed" after what he's done, and it's insulting that he will be seen as some brave and strong person for finally figuring out Eldians did nothing wrong.


      As someone who hated Magath for being patriotic to a country of evil, I gotta say that, assuming he's genuinely remorseful, you should be more willing to forgive him or at least wait and see what he does to possibly atone for it.  Plus, because of that, my hate toward him as toned down considerably.

      It's no use. Penguinluver considers Sasha's father a coward for forgiving Gabi. There's absolutely no chance of him forgiving Magath.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      Attackcjc wrote: Also, just a theory on my part: Hanje can only see the steam of the titans in the distance, but not what they're actually doing.  She's only infereing they're destroying, but what if the steam is a literal smokescreen?  As with all the evidence that there is that his plan isn't to rumble the world, least of all how it doesn't add up with his development, what if he wants the "avengers" to think Marley is being destroyed, but there just standing there emitting smoke? This sounds weird I know, but Eren has literally said post-time skip to Reiner, in the same moment the latter remembered this chp, that he no longer sees the whole world as enemies, so why would he kill all of them? 

      The destruction of Marley hasn't been confirmed yet, and I doubt Isayama would leave something like that up for debate if the city was going to be destroyed anyway. Plus, its ironic that Eren didn't choose to destroy Marley back in chp 100-04, when he literally had the city by the throat, and could've left it in the same state that the warriors left his hometown in years before.

      Great points!

      Thanks man!

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Plus, its ironic that Eren didn't choose to destroy Marley back in chp 100-04, when he literally had the city by the throat, and could've left it in the same state that the warriors left his hometown in years before.
      Well, the reason Eren didn't destroy all of Marley back at Liberio is because he knew that was the path he had to take in order to free Ymir Fritz from her slave mentality.

      Still doesn't change the fact that he could've ended Marley in particular at that moment and then resumed the rumbling for the rest of the world.  The state of Marley and freeing Ymir had nothing to do with each other. They weren't mutally exclusive, meaning one led to another.  Say if Eren did destroy Marley then, it doesn't change the trip down memory lane in paths and subsequently Ymir's freedom. 

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      Drivebladesman wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Plus, its ironic that Eren didn't choose to destroy Marley back in chp 100-04, when he literally had the city by the throat, and could've left it in the same state that the warriors left his hometown in years before.
      Well, the reason Eren didn't destroy all of Marley back at Liberio is because he knew that was the path he had to take in order to free Ymir Fritz from her slave mentality.
      Still doesn't change the fact that he could've ended Marley in particular at that moment and then resumed the rumbling for the rest of the world.  The state of Marley and freeing Ymir had nothing to do with each other. They weren't mutally exclusive, meaning one led to another.  Say if Eren did destroy Marley then, it doesn't change the trip down memory lane in paths and subsequently Ymir's freedom. 

      Okay, but based on what you see of the Attack Titan's timelord powers, wouldn't it be a sign that in the Attack on Titan universe, free will is an illusion?

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
       

      -Magath suddenly apologizing for being a POS, as if that will erase his crimes. Like the rest of the Warriors, it's too late for Magath to suddenly be "redeemed" after what he's done, and it's insulting that he will be seen as some brave and strong person for finally figuring out Eldians did nothing wrong.


      As someone who hated Magath for being patriotic to a country of evil, I gotta say that, assuming he's genuinely remorseful, you should be more willing to forgive him or at least wait and see what he does to possibly atone for it.  Plus, because of that, my hate toward him as toned down considerably.

      Thanks to Eren, Magath has fully realized his folly and now he needs to make moves to ensure the war cycle ends. I don't mean killing Eren, as that won't solve anything, but he needs to prove to Eren that his actions led to him seeing the error of his ways and the fighting will stop.

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    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      -Samuel and Daz being Yeagerists. Good to see some of the original SC members have not betrayed their own people, and this convinces me now more than ever that Erwin would have supported the Rumbling.

      Sam and Daz are Garrison not SC. This I doubt they’d know a thing about what Erwin would want it what he’d support

      Goes to show how long it's been. In any case, that just shows how much of an influence Eren has over his old comrades.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      Drivebladesman wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
       

      -Magath suddenly apologizing for being a POS, as if that will erase his crimes. Like the rest of the Warriors, it's too late for Magath to suddenly be "redeemed" after what he's done, and it's insulting that he will be seen as some brave and strong person for finally figuring out Eldians did nothing wrong.


      As someone who hated Magath for being patriotic to a country of evil, I gotta say that, assuming he's genuinely remorseful, you should be more willing to forgive him or at least wait and see what he does to possibly atone for it.  Plus, because of that, my hate toward him as toned down considerably.

      It's no use. Penguinluver considers Sasha's father a coward for forgiving Gabi. There's absolutely no chance of him forgiving Magath.

      You say that like it isn't the truth.

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    • Attackcjc wrote:

      Drivebladesman wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
       

      -Magath suddenly apologizing for being a POS, as if that will erase his crimes. Like the rest of the Warriors, it's too late for Magath to suddenly be "redeemed" after what he's done, and it's insulting that he will be seen as some brave and strong person for finally figuring out Eldians did nothing wrong.


      As someone who hated Magath for being patriotic to a country of evil, I gotta say that, assuming he's genuinely remorseful, you should be more willing to forgive him or at least wait and see what he does to possibly atone for it.  Plus, because of that, my hate toward him as toned down considerably.

      Thanks to Eren, Magath has fully realized his folly and now he needs to make moves to ensure the war cycle ends. I don't mean killing Eren, as that won't solve anything, but he needs to prove to Eren that his actions led to him seeing the error of his ways and the fighting will stop.

      Really? You think that's all it will take to make the fighting stop? I have zero doubt that Eren will continue rumbling the world even if the Marleyans all suddenly realize how shitty they were. Eren has lost too much and the world will never not want to wipe out Paradis. Magath begging Eren will not change anything, nor should it.

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    • What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) Ever since 124 the manga has been going downhill with this whole alliance bullshit.  Yeagerists being nothing but jobber fodder is annoying too, why can't there be some yeagerists that pose an actual threat to the main cast?  Why not bring back Rico or Hannah and have them side with the Yeagerists.  Why do we have to have Floch run the yeagerists when he is the most incompetent member of the 104th, especially after being strangled by an old ass lady (which is a complete asspule)  

      It was cool seeing Daz and Samuel return after a decade, but they died right after so I guess the whole point of them returning was to give Connie more development.  I don't know, with the way the manga is going I'm really starting to lose faith in Isayama 

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    • EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack)

      Daz was holding a gun to Armin's head, so Connie's decision to kill him was actually justifiable since he was defending a friend. I agree that killing Samuel was probably going too far, though.

      EthanPHX wrote:
      Yeagerists being nothing but jobber fodder is annoying too, why can't there be some yeagerists that pose an actual threat to the main cast? Why not bring back Rico or Hannah and have them side with the Yeagerists.  Why do we have to have Floch run the yeagerists when he is the most incompetent member of the 104th, especially after being strangled by an old ass lady (which is a complete asspule)  

      I hate to tell you, but that has been a problem for years now. Everyone except for the main cast is nothing but cannon fodder (remember how over 200 soldiers fought in Shiganshina, and the only 9 survivors all happened to be the main cast?). Sometimes it's more justifiable than others, and I think in this case it's justified. Isayama doesn't exactly have a lot of characters to choose from to bring back as Yeagerists. Rico would be interesting, though. Maybe he could throw her in there, although I honestly don't think he has time at the rate the story is going.

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    • EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) 

      Samuel and Daz, with all due respect, were minor characters, so having them killed by a main character is expected, even though I agree more with Sam and Diaz since they are Yeagerists. Sasha, however, was a well liked major character who ended up being killed by a cheap copy of the MC but without the redeeming qualities, instead a detestable Mary Sue killing someone fans actually liked.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) 
      Samuel and Daz, with all due respect, were minor characters, so having them killed by a main character is expected, even though I agree more with Sam and Diaz since they are Yeagerists. Sasha, however, was a well liked major character who ended up being killed by a cheap copy of the MC but without the redeeming qualities, instead a detestable Mary Sue killing someone fans actually liked.

      So because she has fans its unjustified?  I hate this reasoning so much.  Makes me wish she would've bit the dust back in the CoT arc where she was supposed to die infront of Kaya.

        Loading editor
    • EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) 
      Samuel and Daz, with all due respect, were minor characters, so having them killed by a main character is expected, even though I agree more with Sam and Diaz since they are Yeagerists. Sasha, however, was a well liked major character who ended up being killed by a cheap copy of the MC but without the redeeming qualities, instead a detestable Mary Sue killing someone fans actually liked.
      So because she has fans its unjustified?  I hate this reasoning so much.  Makes me wish she would've bit the dust back in the CoT arc where she was supposed to die infront of Kaya.

      At least if she died in CoT it would be because of Titans, which would have been a much better fit for the series' setting. Getting shot by some bitchy Hitler Youth just to shove the theme of "revenge is bad, everyone is redeemable, blah blah blah" down our throats is so much worse because it has nothing to do with Titans.

      Also it wasn't because she "has more fans", it's because she's a MUCH better character than Gabi Sue.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) 
      Samuel and Daz, with all due respect, were minor characters, so having them killed by a main character is expected, even though I agree more with Sam and Diaz since they are Yeagerists. Sasha, however, was a well liked major character who ended up being killed by a cheap copy of the MC but without the redeeming qualities, instead a detestable Mary Sue killing someone fans actually liked.
      So because she has fans its unjustified?  I hate this reasoning so much.  Makes me wish she would've bit the dust back in the CoT arc where she was supposed to die infront of Kaya.
      At least if she died in CoT it would be because of Titans, which would have been a much better fit for the series' setting. Getting shot by some bitchy Hitler Youth just to shove the theme of "revenge is bad, everyone is redeemable, blah blah blah" down our throats is so much worse because it has nothing to do with Titans.

      Eye for an eye.  Gabi did nothing wrong

        Loading editor
    • EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) 
      Samuel and Daz, with all due respect, were minor characters, so having them killed by a main character is expected, even though I agree more with Sam and Diaz since they are Yeagerists. Sasha, however, was a well liked major character who ended up being killed by a cheap copy of the MC but without the redeeming qualities, instead a detestable Mary Sue killing someone fans actually liked.
      So because she has fans its unjustified?  I hate this reasoning so much.  Makes me wish she would've bit the dust back in the CoT arc where she was supposed to die infront of Kaya.
      At least if she died in CoT it would be because of Titans, which would have been a much better fit for the series' setting. Getting shot by some bitchy Hitler Youth just to shove the theme of "revenge is bad, everyone is redeemable, blah blah blah" down our throats is so much worse because it has nothing to do with Titans.
      Eye for an eye.  Gabi did nothing wrong

      Except laugh when she blew up a train of soldiers, aka war crime, blindly believe Marley's propaganda, kill Sasha and one other soldier, try to kill Kaya twice, BRAGGED about killing Sasha to Nicolo of all people, drags Falco into her shit every step of the way, shot Eren's head off, and STILL gets away with all of it.

      And again,it isn't because Sasha had "more fans", it's because she is a MUCH better character than Gabi Sue ever could be. Gabi Sue is a terrible character, she did EVERYTHING wrong, and needs to be given a gruesome death.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) 
      Samuel and Daz, with all due respect, were minor characters, so having them killed by a main character is expected, even though I agree more with Sam and Diaz since they are Yeagerists. Sasha, however, was a well liked major character who ended up being killed by a cheap copy of the MC but without the redeeming qualities, instead a detestable Mary Sue killing someone fans actually liked.
      So because she has fans its unjustified?  I hate this reasoning so much.  Makes me wish she would've bit the dust back in the CoT arc where she was supposed to die infront of Kaya.
      At least if she died in CoT it would be because of Titans, which would have been a much better fit for the series' setting. Getting shot by some bitchy Hitler Youth just to shove the theme of "revenge is bad, everyone is redeemable, blah blah blah" down our throats is so much worse because it has nothing to do with Titans.
      Eye for an eye.  Gabi did nothing wrong

      Except laugh when she blew up a train of soldiers, aka war crime, blindly believe Marley's propaganda, kill Sasha and one other soldier, try to kill Kaya twice, BRAGGED about killing Sasha to Nicolo of all people, drags Falco into her shit every step of the way, shot Eren's head off, and STILL gets away with all of it.

      And again,it isn't because Sasha had "more fans", it's because she is a MUCH better character than Gabi Sue ever could be. Gabi Sue is a terrible character, she did EVERYTHING wrong, and needs to be given a gruesome death.

      Floch committee a war crime and you don’t care so let’s go ahead and remove that from your list of complaints. If war crimes are bad condemn all of them don’t pick and choose. “Blindly believe Marley propaganda” yeah well she’s a kid, who’s had no reason to believe Marley was lying to her. This isn’t modern times where we have the ability to do our own research freely (hell some countries still don’t have that luxury) “killed Sasha and one other soldier” yeah who invaded her home and attacked people. They were soldiers they knew the risks they were taking and died for them. It sucks but it happens. “Try to kill Kaya twice and bragged about killing and drags Falco into her shit every step of the way” which she’s clearly come to understand is wrong and regrets things with Falco, just because you deem it “too late” changed nothing. “Shot Erens head off” yeah the guy working with Zeke with some plan that clearly is bad news, hardly a heinous act even if people like Eren.

      “It isn’t because Sasha has more fans.” It clearly is otherwise you wouldn’t have mentioned fans at all. Also Gabi is a creators pet way more then she is a Mary Sue. Given she clearly has flaws some of which you mentioned like her black and white insanity even in the face of proof otherwise that she needs to work past.

        Loading editor
    • “Try to kill Kaya twice and bragged about killing and drags Falco into her shit every step of the way” which she’s clearly come to understand is wrong and regrets things with Falco, just because you deem it “too late” changed nothing.

      She didn't even "change" for the right reasons. It was only after the Rumbling started and she realized her loved ones were going to die. It was only after SHE was about to become a victim that she wanted to start playing nice with the protagonists. No other reason she turned.

      As for Kaya, I still don't understand why Yams made her instantly forgive Gabi, I really hope she wasn't as weak or spineless as Mr. Braus was, but I do have to question why she would just suddenly forgive her sister's killer when she had absolutely no reason to. Forgiving someone who doesn't deserve it is a major indicator of weakness.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      “Try to kill Kaya twice and bragged about killing and drags Falco into her shit every step of the way” which she’s clearly come to understand is wrong and regrets things with Falco, just because you deem it “too late” changed nothing.

      She didn't even "change" for the right reasons. It was only after the Rumbling started and she realized her loved ones were going to die. It was only after SHE was about to become a victim that she wanted to start playing nice with the protagonists. No other reason she turned.

      As for Kaya, I still don't understand why Yams made her instantly forgive Gabi, I really hope she wasn't as weak or spineless as Mr. Braus was, but I do have to question why she would just suddenly forgive her sister's killer when she had absolutely no reason to. Forgiving someone who doesn't deserve it is a major indicator of weakness.

      She realized soon after not being killed by them that she was wrong, her trying to convince herself that they were still her enemy later is a coping mechanism at best but ultimately one that was clearly fading out.

      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

        Loading editor
    • You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.

      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.

        Loading editor
    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.

      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.

      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.

      You’ve said it several times over the course of several discussions that you consider that kind of forgiveness as the makings of someone who is weak. Especially considering what they don’t deserve is forgiveness for killing a soldier who had invaded there home. Much like Bertolt dying during his invasion is a sad but ultimately expected result of war the same can be said for Sasha and her tragic death.

      I mean I can name several. I’ll even use Gabi. Her desire to understand Reiner’s struggle, her willingness to die for her cause, while also trying to make sure Falco doesn’t die for her actions and assuring everyone he had nothing to do with what she’s done. The lengths she’s willing to go to try and save him. Her desire to prove the prejudice against fellow Eldians is wrong and how there not all evil which she’s been told all her life. Any one of those traits could be likable and admirable in a person.

        Loading editor
    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.
      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.
      You’ve said it several times over the course of several discussions that you consider that kind of forgiveness as the makings of someone who is weak. Especially considering what they don’t deserve is forgiveness for killing a soldier who had invaded there home. Much like Bertolt dying during his invasion is a sad but ultimately expected result of war the same can be said for Sasha and her tragic death.

      I mean I can name several. I’ll even use Gabi. Her desire to understand Reiner’s struggle, her willingness to die for her cause, while also trying to make sure Falco doesn’t die for her actions and assuring everyone he had nothing to do with what she’s done. The lengths she’s willing to go to try and save him. Her desire to prove the prejudice against fellow Eldians is wrong and how there not all evil which she’s been told all her life. Any one of those traits could be likable and admirable in a person.

      Except Bertolt knew the truth about Eldians, still choosing to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Sasha was just helping the SC get some well-deserved payback for the mistreatment of their people. Sasha and the SC did nothing wrong.

      And none of those make Gabi likable. There are far too many despicable qualities in Garbage Braun and too many crimes (killing Sasha and shooting Eren) that will ever make her more than the piece of shit she is. Seriously, her begging for the SC to help save the world that wants to wipe them out was pathetic as hell.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.
      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.
      You’ve said it several times over the course of several discussions that you consider that kind of forgiveness as the makings of someone who is weak. Especially considering what they don’t deserve is forgiveness for killing a soldier who had invaded there home. Much like Bertolt dying during his invasion is a sad but ultimately expected result of war the same can be said for Sasha and her tragic death.

      I mean I can name several. I’ll even use Gabi. Her desire to understand Reiner’s struggle, her willingness to die for her cause, while also trying to make sure Falco doesn’t die for her actions and assuring everyone he had nothing to do with what she’s done. The lengths she’s willing to go to try and save him. Her desire to prove the prejudice against fellow Eldians is wrong and how there not all evil which she’s been told all her life. Any one of those traits could be likable and admirable in a person.

      Except Bertolt knew the truth about Eldians, still choosing to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Sasha was just helping the SC get some well-deserved payback for the mistreatment of their people. Sasha and the SC did nothing wrong.

      And none of those make Gabi likable. There are far too many despicable qualities in Garbage Braun and too many crimes (killing Sasha and shooting Eren) that will ever make her more than the piece of shit she is. Seriously, her begging for the SC to help save the world that wants to wipe them out was pathetic as hell.

      He learned the truth and it ate him up (mentally of course, Armin finished the job physically) so much so he had to cope with the internal battle it caused. Sasha understands it as well it’s why she found no pleasure in his death and she likely didn’t find any pleasure in the invasion but did it anyway it’s a war you don’t need to hate who your killing. It just tends to make it easier.

      You asked for likable qualities, I gave you likable qualities. You deciding those don’t make Gabi likable is irrelevant to the question because you don’t like Gabi. Especially cause killing Sasha and shooting Eren aren’t crimes, both happened during a war and both are soldiers. Her attempting to kill Kaya is a crime. Sasha..not so much.

        Loading editor
    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.
      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.
      You’ve said it several times over the course of several discussions that you consider that kind of forgiveness as the makings of someone who is weak. Especially considering what they don’t deserve is forgiveness for killing a soldier who had invaded there home. Much like Bertolt dying during his invasion is a sad but ultimately expected result of war the same can be said for Sasha and her tragic death.

      I mean I can name several. I’ll even use Gabi. Her desire to understand Reiner’s struggle, her willingness to die for her cause, while also trying to make sure Falco doesn’t die for her actions and assuring everyone he had nothing to do with what she’s done. The lengths she’s willing to go to try and save him. Her desire to prove the prejudice against fellow Eldians is wrong and how there not all evil which she’s been told all her life. Any one of those traits could be likable and admirable in a person.

      Except Bertolt knew the truth about Eldians, still choosing to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Sasha was just helping the SC get some well-deserved payback for the mistreatment of their people. Sasha and the SC did nothing wrong.

      And none of those make Gabi likable. There are far too many despicable qualities in Garbage Braun and too many crimes (killing Sasha and shooting Eren) that will ever make her more than the piece of shit she is. Seriously, her begging for the SC to help save the world that wants to wipe them out was pathetic as hell.

      He learned the truth and it ate him up (mentally of course, Armin finished the job physically) so much so he had to cope with the internal battle it caused. Sasha understands it as well it’s why she found no pleasure in his death and she likely didn’t find any pleasure in the invasion but did it anyway it’s a war you don’t need to hate who your killing. It just tends to make it easier.

      You asked for likable qualities, I gave you likable qualities. You deciding those don’t make Gabi likable is irrelevant to the question because you don’t like Gabi. Especially cause killing Sasha and shooting Eren aren’t crimes, both happened during a war and both are soldiers. Her attempting to kill Kaya is a crime. Sasha..not so much.

      But Eren and Sasha are infinitely better characters than Gabi Sue. They both have more of a fanbase while Gabi has a more sizable hatedom. I'm pretty sure Gabi's hatedom comes from her killing one of the few purely good heroes (Sasha) and shooting who is arguably the series most popular character (Eren)

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.
      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.
      You’ve said it several times over the course of several discussions that you consider that kind of forgiveness as the makings of someone who is weak. Especially considering what they don’t deserve is forgiveness for killing a soldier who had invaded there home. Much like Bertolt dying during his invasion is a sad but ultimately expected result of war the same can be said for Sasha and her tragic death.

      I mean I can name several. I’ll even use Gabi. Her desire to understand Reiner’s struggle, her willingness to die for her cause, while also trying to make sure Falco doesn’t die for her actions and assuring everyone he had nothing to do with what she’s done. The lengths she’s willing to go to try and save him. Her desire to prove the prejudice against fellow Eldians is wrong and how there not all evil which she’s been told all her life. Any one of those traits could be likable and admirable in a person.

      Except Bertolt knew the truth about Eldians, still choosing to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Sasha was just helping the SC get some well-deserved payback for the mistreatment of their people. Sasha and the SC did nothing wrong.

      And none of those make Gabi likable. There are far too many despicable qualities in Garbage Braun and too many crimes (killing Sasha and shooting Eren) that will ever make her more than the piece of shit she is. Seriously, her begging for the SC to help save the world that wants to wipe them out was pathetic as hell.

      He learned the truth and it ate him up (mentally of course, Armin finished the job physically) so much so he had to cope with the internal battle it caused. Sasha understands it as well it’s why she found no pleasure in his death and she likely didn’t find any pleasure in the invasion but did it anyway it’s a war you don’t need to hate who your killing. It just tends to make it easier.

      You asked for likable qualities, I gave you likable qualities. You deciding those don’t make Gabi likable is irrelevant to the question because you don’t like Gabi. Especially cause killing Sasha and shooting Eren aren’t crimes, both happened during a war and both are soldiers. Her attempting to kill Kaya is a crime. Sasha..not so much.

      But Eren and Sasha are infinitely better characters than Gabi Sue. They both have more of a fanbase while Gabi has a more sizable hatedom.

      Oh look. Mr. “it’s not about having more fans” is bringing up the fans again. Also given how Eren and Sasha have been around since the beginning and aren’t supposed to be disliked characters in anyway while Gabi showed up super late and is on Marley’s side at the beginning and is a character who shows many of the uncomfortable aspects of patriotism and war such as child soldiers and how propoganda affects people’s perception of reality it would be a serious case of bad writing if they didn’t have more fans then her.

      Also that still doesn’t change the fact those aren’t crimes.

        Loading editor
    • General chapter impressions:

      Pros:

      • Seeing Samuel and Daz again. Granted, killing them off would have meant more if they'd actually be developed as characters, but they had, then the fanbase would have rioted. Imagine if it had been Connie killing Sasha. People would have exploded. But killing two familiar faces who readers have minimal attachment too, it makes us feel sorry for Connie rather than for them.
      • Callback to the Warriors' choices. Good stuff. Connie and Armin are now on the side of moral questioning that Bertolt and Reiner had gone through. And the answer to Annie's speculation on whether they would have broken the Walls that day is, yes, they likely would have.
      • Yelena's always a heel, but her observation about humanity's penchange violence was terribly appropriate.
      • Connie shooting Samuel and Daz. Putting this separately because this is one of those moments where you know there's no going back. I haven't liked Connie much as a character, but this moment was good. This was hard, and he did it. As mentioned above, killing Daz to save Armin was easily justified, but killing Samuel is because 'it had to be done for the job.' As everyone discussed outside, they have to kill all the Yeagerists at once to be sure of securing the ship, and they can't take chances that Samuel will do something.

      Cons:

      • Floch's megaphone voice being able to let everyone knows that Mikasa, Armin, and Connie are traitors. I get that it's dramatic, but I doubt he really should have been able to shout loud enough, and coherently enough, that everyone would know exactly what's going on.
      • Hange seeing from the steam trail that the Titans have reached Marley. We're talking about an ocean voyage here, one long enough that Marley can lose ships and wonder what happened to them. How can she look at the steam and be like "Well, they made it to the continent!"
        Loading editor
    • Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      With this in mind, I would say that Gabi is actually a subversion of the Mary Sue trope. Whereas Mary Sues are characters who are impossibly good at tasks that they have no training for, Gabi is a character who was introduced as being at the top of her class in the Warrior Cadets who has utterly failed at everything she has tried to do since the battle of Liberio. The last thing she was successful at was blowing up the armored transport in Fort Slava, and since then it has been one failure after another. She boarded the zeppelin to kill Eren but only succeeded in killing one soldier, and then had to be saved from being shot by Falco. She managed to escape her jail cell, but then got utterly lost and had to be rescued and taken care of by the Blouse family. She was completely inept at doing farm work while living with the Blouses, and when she tried to get help from Niccolo she had to be saved from him by Falco. Then she had to be saved again from Kaya by Mikasa and Mr. Blouse. Then she had to be saved from Eren by Pieck.

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

        Loading editor
    • RuneLai wrote:
      • Hange seeing from the steam trail that the Titans have reached Marley. We're talking about an ocean voyage here, one long enough that Marley can lose ships and wonder what happened to them. How can she look at the steam and be like "Well, they made it to the continent!"

      She just did a theory, at least that's what I think. She assumed the smoke was provocated by the lasts Titans of the line, based on this she said that the first lines reached the coast of Marley. But it's obvious that we can't say if they reached Marley or not, as the roundness of the earth shouldn't allow us to see Marley's coast from Paradise.

      Edit : after reading the french official version, we can see that Hange is saying that "They most likely reached the north-oriental coast of Marley". She's sure of herself, but the way she said it made it clear that she's just assuming.

      @Neetaku I don't know if this time it'll be usefull, but at least I learned the definition of a Mary Sue thanks to you with the previous ones... But tbh I doub't the people you're adressing to will pay attention to the definition :/

        Loading editor
    • Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Except laugh when she blew up a train of soldiers, aka war crime

      Wait, wait, wait.  How is destroying a train of soldiers a war crime?  They are obviously enemy combatants, and I'm pretty sure they were in the train to be deployed soon.

        Loading editor
    • Winston4278 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).

      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".

        Loading editor
    • Drivebladesman wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Except laugh when she blew up a train of soldiers, aka war crime

      Wait, wait, wait.  How is destroying a train of soldiers a war crime?  They are obviously enemy combatants, and I'm pretty sure they were in the train to be deployed soon.

      I don't see Faye sadistically laughing after blowing up a bunch of people. And Kaya's murderous intent is justified since she was trying to get revenge for Sasha, which she could have had her cowardly father not taught her otherwise or if the traitorous Mikasa wasn't such a phony friend.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Winston4278 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".

      I don't care. What I care about is that you keep calling her a Mary Sue when she does not in any way meet the definition of one. And if plot armor is all that is required to make a character a Mary Sue (which it's not, no definition of the term has that as part of the criteria) then Eren, Armin, Levi, Hange, Floch, Zeke, Reiner... everyone in the main cast is a Mary Sue.

        Loading editor
    • I guess I'm going to be the one playing devil's advocate in regards to this chapter. 

      Pros: 

      - The drawing was good especially the gore which was incredibly realistic & gruesome to behold. 

      Cons: 

      - When I rewatched season 3 part 2 one thing that definitely impressed me was how solid Floch was as a character.  He was brutally honest to a fault and the pragmatist who said things like they are instead of how others wished they were which I think set him up perfectly as a rational counterbalance to many of the main characters emotional sides (Side note: props to his JP voice actor who was excellent). However I feel like his character has been botched in this arc as he has become a mindless one dimensional thug and honestly every time he opens his mouth my eyes roll into another dimension as he comes across as transparently psychotic rather than a person with a valid point.  He isn't the rational pragmatist that the Yeagerists need to be a credible threat or valid counterpoint to the protagonists but instead has de-evolved into a heel who only exists to prolong the plot. 

      - The dialogue was also a major problem with this chapter & potentially the arc in general as it was flat, repetitive (four characters say "why are we killing each other!" or a variant of it), and preachy (Kyle Broflovski called he wants his "I learned something today" speeches back). When you are focusing extensively on characters like this the dialogue needs to be strong or else the story is a dud, that is a basic truth of storytelling (Ex. Better Call Saul & Breaking Bad are great because of the stellar dialogue writing). Isayama has written some great dialogue in the past especially in Marley but this arc has been nothing short of rough and it is telling that the best chapter of the arc was the one where barely anyone talked. 

      - I hated the revival of Daz & Samuel for the "why are we killing each other!!!" moment because A.) I straight up forgot who Samuel was and honestly thought he was Thomas who died in Trost, B.) I only remember Daz because he's a meme and looks like he was kicked by a mule, and C.) using left over cannon fodder for a emotional gut punch is beyond stupid and emotionally false to the core. 

      - Finally, I truly hate what Armin has become as he is just unbearably naive & whiny these days and I feel that his character has been in heavy decline since his revival. I can sympathize with his whole "boo to killing the human race" stance but he just feels like he is missing that intensity & will to fight that made him so enjoyable throughout the series and has de-evolved all the way back to Trost when he spent the majority of the time crying & whining which was fine then since it was the start of a character arc but isn't a great look this late in the game. I was intitially going to include Hange here but I'll give her/him a pass since it was setup back in Uprising and is at least logical & consistent with her character. 

      Overall: 

      - I have read this chapter a few times already and I dislike it more each time. I think the main reasons why I'm so dispassionate towards this arc & chapters like this is that the dialogue is rote for something that is meant to be character focused, the conveniences are making the arc feel disingenous & mechanical, the stakes are weak so far for an apocalyptic endgame, large parts of this arc feel like a rerun of Uprising, staying out of Eren's POV for extended periods of time feels like a mistake as everybody has been simply been reacting to him despite the fact that he is the primary driver of the plot, and most prominently the pacing has been nothing short of strange with some chapters coming to a grinding halt for no particular reason (123) while others speed through entire character arcs at the speed of light (Connie in 126, Annie's reintroduction to the core cast in the same chapter). I'm still trying to maintain optimism for the series and I hope that a big death or moment in the future will give the series a renewed sense of vigour like the three chapter trip to the paths did but for now I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the series to improve as a whole or reach its next grand event.  

      - Side Note: I do think that the anime's incredible VA work and excellent music will solve some of these problems as it will make the duller moments more energetic but hopefully unlike RTS, WIT is not afraid of rearranging & rewriting many aspects of the arc to improve it (ie. combining chapter 123 & 124). 

        Loading editor
    • Neetaku wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Winston4278 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      I don't care. What I care about is that you keep calling her a Mary Sue when she does not in any way meet the definition of one. And if plot armor is all that is required to make a character a Mary Sue (which it's not, no definition of the term has that as part of the criteria) then Eren, Armin, Levi, Hange, Floch, Zeke, Reiner... everyone in the main cast is a Mary Sue.

      But I'm pretty sure most if not all of those characters are going to die before the end, thus negating their plot armor. Garbage Braun is likely gonna live happily ever after despite being an evil little shit, that botched abortion doesn't deserve to be happy.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Neetaku wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Winston4278 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      I don't care. What I care about is that you keep calling her a Mary Sue when she does not in any way meet the definition of one. And if plot armor is all that is required to make a character a Mary Sue (which it's not, no definition of the term has that as part of the criteria) then Eren, Armin, Levi, Hange, Floch, Zeke, Reiner... everyone in the main cast is a Mary Sue.

      But I'm pretty sure most if not all of those characters are going to die before the end, thus negating their plot armor. Garbage Braun is likely gonna live happily ever after despite being an evil little shit, that botched abortion doesn't deserve to be happy.

      Irrelevant. They've survived more things then her by a country mile and yet you don’t decry there plot armor and you can’t actually prove any of them will die. Ergo your still using the term wrong and a million and one excuses don’t actually change that.

        Loading editor
    • Freeman1378 wrote: I guess I'm going to be the one playing devil's advocate in regards to this chapter. 

      Pros: 

      - The drawing was good especially the gore which was incredibly realistic & gruesome to behold. 

      Cons: 

      - When I rewatched season 3 part 2 one thing that definitely impressed me was how solid Floch was as a character.  He was brutally honest to a fault and the pragmatist who said things like they are instead of how others wished they were which I think set him up perfectly as a rational counterbalance to many of the main characters emotional sides (Side note: props to his JP voice actor who was excellent). However I feel like his character has been botched in this arc as he has become a mindless one dimensional thug and honestly every time he opens his mouth my eyes roll into another dimension as he comes across as transparently psychotic rather than a person with a valid point.  He isn't the rational pragmatist that the Yeagerists need to be a credible threat or valid counterpoint to the protagonists but instead has de-evolved into a heel who only exists to prolong the plot. 

      - The dialogue was also a major problem with this chapter & potentially the arc in general as it was flat, repetitive (four characters say "why are we killing each other!" or a variant of it), and preachy (Kyle Broflovski called he wants his "I learned something today" speeches back). When you are focusing extensively on characters like this the dialogue needs to be strong or else the story is a dud, that is a basic truth of storytelling (Ex. Better Call Saul & Breaking Bad are great because of the stellar dialogue writing). Isayama has written some great dialogue in the past especially in Marley but this arc has been nothing short of rough and it is telling that the best chapter of the arc was the one where barely anyone talked. 

      - I hated the revival of Daz & Samuel for the "why are we killing each other!!!" moment because A.) I straight up forgot who Samuel was and honestly thought he was Thomas who died in Trost, B.) I only remember Daz because he's a meme and looks like he was kicked by a mule, and C.) using left over cannon fodder for a emotional gut punch is beyond stupid and emotionally false to the core. 

      - Finally, I truly hate what Armin has become as he is just unbearably naive & whiny these days and I feel that his character has been in heavy decline since his revival. I can sympathize with his whole "boo to killing the human race" stance but he just feels like he is missing that intensity & will to fight that made him so enjoyable throughout the series and has de-evolved all the way back to Trost when he spent the majority of the time crying & whining which was fine then since it was the start of a character arc but isn't a great look this late in the game. I was intitially going to include Hange here but I'll give her/him a pass since it was setup back in Uprising and is at least logical & consistent with her character. 

      Overall: 

      - I have read this chapter a few times already and I dislike it more each time. I think the main reasons why I'm so dispassionate towards this arc & chapters like this is that the dialogue is rote for something that is meant to be character focused, the conveniences are making the arc feel disingenous & mechanical, the stakes are weak so far for an apocalyptic endgame, large parts of this arc feel like a rerun of Uprising, staying out of Eren's POV for extended periods of time feels like a mistake as everybody has been simply been reacting to him despite the fact that he is the primary driver of the plot, and most prominently the pacing has been nothing short of strange with some chapters coming to a grinding halt for no particular reason (123) while others speed through entire character arcs at the speed of light (Connie in 126, Annie's reintroduction to the core cast in the same chapter). I'm still trying to maintain optimism for the series and I hope that a big death or moment in the future will give the series a renewed sense of vigour like the three chapter trip to the paths did but for now I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the series to improve as a whole or reach its next grand event.  

      - Side Note: I do think that the anime's incredible VA work and excellent music will solve some of these problems as it will make the duller moments more energetic but hopefully unlike RTS, WIT is not afraid of rearranging & rewriting many aspects of the arc to improve it (ie. combining chapter 123 & 124). 

      Yeah, I really enjoyed Floch a lot more in RTS, before he became a fascist thug.

        Loading editor
    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      Freeman1378 wrote: I guess I'm going to be the one playing devil's advocate in regards to this chapter. 

      Pros: 

      - The drawing was good especially the gore which was incredibly realistic & gruesome to behold. 

      Cons: 

      - When I rewatched season 3 part 2 one thing that definitely impressed me was how solid Floch was as a character.  He was brutally honest to a fault and the pragmatist who said things like they are instead of how others wished they were which I think set him up perfectly as a rational counterbalance to many of the main characters emotional sides (Side note: props to his JP voice actor who was excellent). However I feel like his character has been botched in this arc as he has become a mindless one dimensional thug and honestly every time he opens his mouth my eyes roll into another dimension as he comes across as transparently psychotic rather than a person with a valid point.  He isn't the rational pragmatist that the Yeagerists need to be a credible threat or valid counterpoint to the protagonists but instead has de-evolved into a heel who only exists to prolong the plot. 

      - The dialogue was also a major problem with this chapter & potentially the arc in general as it was flat, repetitive (four characters say "why are we killing each other!" or a variant of it), and preachy (Kyle Broflovski called he wants his "I learned something today" speeches back). When you are focusing extensively on characters like this the dialogue needs to be strong or else the story is a dud, that is a basic truth of storytelling (Ex. Better Call Saul & Breaking Bad are great because of the stellar dialogue writing). Isayama has written some great dialogue in the past especially in Marley but this arc has been nothing short of rough and it is telling that the best chapter of the arc was the one where barely anyone talked. 

      - I hated the revival of Daz & Samuel for the "why are we killing each other!!!" moment because A.) I straight up forgot who Samuel was and honestly thought he was Thomas who died in Trost, B.) I only remember Daz because he's a meme and looks like he was kicked by a mule, and C.) using left over cannon fodder for a emotional gut punch is beyond stupid and emotionally false to the core. 

      - Finally, I truly hate what Armin has become as he is just unbearably naive & whiny these days and I feel that his character has been in heavy decline since his revival. I can sympathize with his whole "boo to killing the human race" stance but he just feels like he is missing that intensity & will to fight that made him so enjoyable throughout the series and has de-evolved all the way back to Trost when he spent the majority of the time crying & whining which was fine then since it was the start of a character arc but isn't a great look this late in the game. I was intitially going to include Hange here but I'll give her/him a pass since it was setup back in Uprising and is at least logical & consistent with her character. 

      Overall: 

      - I have read this chapter a few times already and I dislike it more each time. I think the main reasons why I'm so dispassionate towards this arc & chapters like this is that the dialogue is rote for something that is meant to be character focused, the conveniences are making the arc feel disingenous & mechanical, the stakes are weak so far for an apocalyptic endgame, large parts of this arc feel like a rerun of Uprising, staying out of Eren's POV for extended periods of time feels like a mistake as everybody has been simply been reacting to him despite the fact that he is the primary driver of the plot, and most prominently the pacing has been nothing short of strange with some chapters coming to a grinding halt for no particular reason (123) while others speed through entire character arcs at the speed of light (Connie in 126, Annie's reintroduction to the core cast in the same chapter). I'm still trying to maintain optimism for the series and I hope that a big death or moment in the future will give the series a renewed sense of vigour like the three chapter trip to the paths did but for now I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the series to improve as a whole or reach its next grand event.  

      - Side Note: I do think that the anime's incredible VA work and excellent music will solve some of these problems as it will make the duller moments more energetic but hopefully unlike RTS, WIT is not afraid of rearranging & rewriting many aspects of the arc to improve it (ie. combining chapter 123 & 124). 

      Yeah, I really enjoyed Floch a lot more in RTS, before he became a fascist thug.

      Agree to disagree. Right now Floch is what is needed to save Eldia. Not like the traitor alliance has the island's best interests at heart.

        Loading editor
    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Neetaku wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Winston4278 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      I don't care. What I care about is that you keep calling her a Mary Sue when she does not in any way meet the definition of one. And if plot armor is all that is required to make a character a Mary Sue (which it's not, no definition of the term has that as part of the criteria) then Eren, Armin, Levi, Hange, Floch, Zeke, Reiner... everyone in the main cast is a Mary Sue.
      But I'm pretty sure most if not all of those characters are going to die before the end, thus negating their plot armor. Garbage Braun is likely gonna live happily ever after despite being an evil little shit, that botched abortion doesn't deserve to be happy.
      Irrelevant. They've survived more things then her by a country mile and yet you don’t decry there plot armor and you can’t actually prove any of them will die. Ergo your still using the term wrong and a million and one excuses don’t actually change that.

      You contadicted yourself by saying they've survived more than Gabi. That's still plot armor, but most of them are decent enough characters that I don't care. Eren, Levi, Floch, and Zeke are good characters with understandable motives and circumstances. Hange and Armin have become spineless cowards but maybe that's WHY they are still alive, because they haven't made the tough  choices to save their people. Reiner, like his partners, I still hate with fiery passion, but I've accepted that, as Isayama's favorite character, he will likely survive until the end no matter what gets thrown at him.

        Loading editor
    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Neetaku wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Winston4278 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      I don't care. What I care about is that you keep calling her a Mary Sue when she does not in any way meet the definition of one. And if plot armor is all that is required to make a character a Mary Sue (which it's not, no definition of the term has that as part of the criteria) then Eren, Armin, Levi, Hange, Floch, Zeke, Reiner... everyone in the main cast is a Mary Sue.
      But I'm pretty sure most if not all of those characters are going to die before the end, thus negating their plot armor. Garbage Braun is likely gonna live happily ever after despite being an evil little shit, that botched abortion doesn't deserve to be happy.
      Irrelevant. They've survived more things then her by a country mile and yet you don’t decry there plot armor and you can’t actually prove any of them will die. Ergo your still using the term wrong and a million and one excuses don’t actually change that.

      You contadicted yourself by saying they've survived more than Gabi. That's still plot armor, but most of them are decent enough characters that I don't care. Eren, Levi, Floch, and Zeke are good characters with understandable motives and circumstances. Hange and Armin have become spineless cowards but maybe that's WHY they are still alive, because they haven't made the tough  choices to save their people. Reiner, like his partners, I still hate with fiery passion, but I've accepted that, as Isayama's favorite character, he will likely survive until the end no matter what gets thrown at him.

      No I didn’t. Not even a little. You said she has plot armor and that you think she’ll survive, thus you instill the Mary Sue title on her despite it making no sense. Being a decent enough character doesn’t equate to that logic, nor does “well I don’t think there gonna survive therefore I don’t think they count.” What you think is also unimportant to the term. There’s a defined term for this kind of character and Gabi doesn’t fit it therefore it’s the wrong term. That’s the only actual way to define a Mary Sue. So again your using the term wrong and it will be called out that your doing so for as long as you do so.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Winston4278 wrote:
      Neetaku wrote:
      Alright, I guess it's time for me to bat down the "Gabi is a Mary Sue" criticism again. I'm sure eventually it will get addressed.

      The definition of a Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character" who can "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."

      Gabi is so incredibly inept that it's almost comical. Her entire character arc during this final arc revolves around being completely humbled by the fact that she can't do anything right, and keeps getting the ideology that she grew up with (all Eldians are evil) proved wrong the all of the good Eldians living on Paradis.

      While I applaud you laying this out once again Neetaku, I have to agree with Razzylada: despite all the evidence you presented, it will STILL not be enough to quell those who hate Gabi with a fiery passion and label her as such (probably through and past the end of the series).
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      I don't care. What I care about is that you keep calling her a Mary Sue when she does not in any way meet the definition of one. And if plot armor is all that is required to make a character a Mary Sue (which it's not, no definition of the term has that as part of the criteria) then Eren, Armin, Levi, Hange, Floch, Zeke, Reiner... everyone in the main cast is a Mary Sue.
      But I'm pretty sure most if not all of those characters are going to die before the end, thus negating their plot armor. Garbage Braun is likely gonna live happily ever after despite being an evil little shit, that botched abortion doesn't deserve to be happy.

      Nothing you just said would make her a Mary Sue. If surviving the series they are in makes a character a Mary Sue (which it doesn't) then almost all fictional characters in existence are Mary Sues.

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Drivebladesman wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Plus, its ironic that Eren didn't choose to destroy Marley back in chp 100-04, when he literally had the city by the throat, and could've left it in the same state that the warriors left his hometown in years before.
      Well, the reason Eren didn't destroy all of Marley back at Liberio is because he knew that was the path he had to take in order to free Ymir Fritz from her slave mentality.
      Still doesn't change the fact that he could've ended Marley in particular at that moment and then resumed the rumbling for the rest of the world.  The state of Marley and freeing Ymir had nothing to do with each other. They weren't mutally exclusive, meaning one led to another.  Say if Eren did destroy Marley then, it doesn't change the trip down memory lane in paths and subsequently Ymir's freedom. 
      Okay, but based on what you see of the Attack Titan's timelord powers, wouldn't it be a sign that in the Attack on Titan universe, free will is an illusion?

      Still doesn't change the fact that Marley's state had nothing to do with Eren going into paths via Zeke.  And I wouldn't say that free will is an illusion in this universe. 

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Attackcjc wrote:

      Drivebladesman wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
       

      -Magath suddenly apologizing for being a POS, as if that will erase his crimes. Like the rest of the Warriors, it's too late for Magath to suddenly be "redeemed" after what he's done, and it's insulting that he will be seen as some brave and strong person for finally figuring out Eldians did nothing wrong.


      As someone who hated Magath for being patriotic to a country of evil, I gotta say that, assuming he's genuinely remorseful, you should be more willing to forgive him or at least wait and see what he does to possibly atone for it.  Plus, because of that, my hate toward him as toned down considerably.
      Thanks to Eren, Magath has fully realized his folly and now he needs to make moves to ensure the war cycle ends. I don't mean killing Eren, as that won't solve anything, but he needs to prove to Eren that his actions led to him seeing the error of his ways and the fighting will stop.
      Really? You think that's all it will take to make the fighting stop? I have zero doubt that Eren will continue rumbling the world even if the Marleyans all suddenly realize how shitty they were. Eren has lost too much and the world will never not want to wipe out Paradis. Magath begging Eren will not change anything, nor should it.

      I'm all for Eren sticking it to Marley which he already has done an extremely good job of.  They were in the wrong, and Eren fought them well for it, even when the odds were against him.  But completely destroying them goes against his development, and he's ultimately fighting for peace and freedom, not destruction.  He learned the rest of the world is full of people like him, not simply enemies. He views Marley with as much contempt as he does titans currently- not at all.  He fights cuz he has to, and if he finds a way to do it without destroying the world, that's just as cool.

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    • How well the paths dictate the future will be what decides if free will is an illusion or not. So far the only thing that seemed to catch Eren off guard since the time skip is the Tybur Titan who promptly kicked his ass. If it is and he’s already seen what comes next he’s accepted the outcome and will likely win. Otherwise who knows.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.
      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.

      How about you do the same for the Eldians.  The Eldians were far worse than Modern day Marley.  2000 years of slavery and ethnic clensing but because the story started on Paradis Island your mind naturaly sides with them

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    • EthanPHX wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.
      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.

      How about you do the same for the Eldians.  The Eldians were far worse than Modern day Marley.  2000 years of slavery and ethnic clensing but because the story started on Paradis Island your mind naturaly sides with them

      Because the story's heroes/protagonists are on Eldia's side and they are far more tragic victims than Warriors could ever be. I don't feel a shred of empathy for Marley, Warriors, or any citizen outside of the Walls. No matter what the original King Fritz did, the rest of the world brought the Rumbling on themselves.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:Winston4278 wrote: Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".

      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Carlo was all it took for Sasha to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Sasha despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".

      I really hope you see how stupid you sound.  You're completely missing the point of this whole manga.  There are no good or bad guys in this series, everyone is in their own gray area.  Just because Gabi killed off a character with a big fan base does not make her evil.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      EthanPHX wrote:


      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:



      You just answered your own question there. You consider it weakness (note that’s your opinion not at all a fact) therefore any reason they could give you wouldn’t be satisfactory because you wouldn’t accept it and consider it as such. It’s not that you can’t understand it’s that you wouldn’t even if you were told.

      That sounds like you're saying I should be forced to care about "the other side" or show empathy towards Marley and the Warriors, even though there is nothing about them to empathize with. I have said many times, I do not CARE about the enemy perspective in AoT. They dug their own graves when RBA destroyed the Walls and set Eren on his current path (I cheered when Bertolt died, he had it coming, and I hope Reiner and Annie meet the same end). I shouldn't be forced to care about people whose side of the story is of no relevance to me.
      No it sounds like I’m saying what I said. You consider forgiveness or anything of the sort to be weakness so any explanation means nothing to you. Literally all I said there.
      No, I didn't say forgiveness in general is weakness. I said forgiveness for those who DO NOT DESERVE IT. Name ONE likable quality about the Warriors/Marleys characters that makes them worth forgiving for their heinous crimes.
      How about you do the same for the Eldians.  The Eldians were far worse than Modern day Marley.  2000 years of slavery and ethnic clensing but because the story started on Paradis Island your mind naturaly sides with them
      Because the story's heroes/protagonists are on Eldia's side and they are far more tragic victims than Warriors could ever be. I don't feel a shred of empathy for Marley, Warriors, or any citizen outside of the Walls. No matter what the original King Fritz did, the rest of the world brought the Rumbling on themselves.

      You sir have a very narrow way of thinking

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    • EthanPHX wrote:

      How about you do the same for the Eldians.  The Eldians were far worse than Modern day Marley.  2000 years of slavery and ethnic clensing but because the story started on Paradis Island your mind naturaly sides with them

      Just remember that Eldia wasn't always having a politic of conquest, ethnic cleansing for 1740 years. Remember that Kruger said that if it was the case, then Eldia would be the only country still existing in the world, and SoY would be the majority of the worldwide population. And even without Kruger's words, it's obvious that 144 rulers of Eldia (prior to Karl Fritz) couldn't have all the same politic, it's pretty safe to assume some tried to make alliances or to stop massacres, just like Karl Fritz wanted to. 

      But yeah, even if we take in consideration this, Eldia still has comited far more crimes than Marley, Willy Tybur even said that in the end, all of the victims of the Titans since they exist is approximately equal to three times the current wold population. Marley hasn't done so much crimes, BUT, if given enough time, it would. But that's not really a point anymore as they're going to be Rumbled x). 

      Otherwise, I totally agree with your development tho, seeing the SnK world as a world with "good" and "bad" people is childish, same way for our world. 

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    • I wonder, It is that War for Paradis arc really War of the World meets Planet of the Apes (no aliens/martians and/or apes, just titans or Rumbling Wall Titan) with philosophical theme of Muv-Luv Alternatives (involve in Paradis Island or the world, should) Isayama inspired.  

      What's your Q&A comments bellow: post a reply at your own risk and rethink yourselves.

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    • Razzylada wrote:
      Overall, I liked the chapter. It was far from being of the greatest, but it wasn't mean to be, we're still in the transition chapters between 122 and the "facing Eren" (if it takes place).

      Pros :

      - The gore. That was probably one of the goriest chapter we've ever had in SnK (even if I personnally don't really consider that as a gore chapter, but for SnK's standards it is). Big up to zombie Armin.

      - Daz/Samuel vs Armin/Connie. Firstly, is was a big surprize to see Samuel and Daz in this chapter (seriously, who would have thought that we'd get to see them before we'd get to see Eren or Historia again?). But the most interesting part is the confrontation between the two sides. It reminds me a lot of events that occured during the Clash of Titans arc/Season 2 : when the Scouts are on the Armored Titan, and Bertolt says that the moments he passed with them were honests, that he really enjoyed being with them, that it wasn't all a lie. Now, Armin/Connie are playing the role of Bertolt here, saying that they did enjoy being friends with Daz and Samuel, that they're not "bad", but they have to kill them anyway because they don't relly have a choice (Bertolt being like "No, you're not demons, but you have to die anyway"). Alos, this scene had similarities with the reveal of Bertolt/Reiner being Titan shifters (the revelation of them being traitors), especially as both times the hold of the Colossal Titan has been hurt and transforms right after (it's not a big issue to assume Armin will transform). 

      However, the scene would have been more powerfull if we were more familiar with Daz and Samuel. They've been absent from the story since chapters 4 and 12. They should have been introduced again earlier to get us to sympathetize with them. But I totally get that from Armin and Connie's perspective, it's horrible to be forced to end up killing them, and now, they totally understand Bertolt.

      - Properly speaking, it's not in the chapter, but it's an hypothesis for the future one : Isayama probably has the intention of having Reiner surviving at least for a few chapters. There are chances that he will be impressive in the fight to come, which would be a good thing because the Armored Titan hasn't been a real threat since... The first Battle of Shiganshina ?

      - I was afraid that they planed to have Onyankopon to control the plane, as he's already piloted airships (but it would have been stupid indeed, both vehicles aren't the same at all). But they brought the Azumabito's engineers for that, which is good, and also coherent.

      - Yelena's sentence, "You can't take violence away from people". It was another reminder of Isayama that the story isn't going to end with a peaceful ending, and that the peace some characters seek for is a dream. 

      Cons :

      - Kiyomi suddenly going full Naruto or whatever. The fact that she tries to resist is a thing, but if she has a military training or something like that, why haven't we never heard of it ? Especially as the way it is executed looks more ridiculous than anything. I get that she takes advantage of surprizing Floch, but he's still in his twenties and is a trained soldier.

      - The Wall Titans have reached Marley's coast or are close to. At first I thought they were far to speed, but after a few maths I did myself, with a lot of approximations, covering such a distance in 48 hours isn't that impressive. However, the "cons" there is that it seems that with such an anouncement, I've got the feeling that the story is still extending, and we're not going to see the end soon. At first, I thought that the harbor would be the place of the final battle, with the Scouts reaching the place a few hours before Eren/The Wall Titans (which would have allowed us to see Eren's form probably in chapter 130). But now, we might have the final battle in Marley ? I would have prefered on Paradise. Especially has it just extends the story.

      In regards to that, I'm trying to consider the following:

      AOT world is basically a mirrored, upside-down version of our own, with some minor differences. Paradis location would roughly translate to the Madagascar island, except MUCH larger. (I'm sourcing this to a Reddit thread I saw not long ago that shines a light over just how massive the walls and the area within it truly are https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/1wsqvo/some_facts_on_the_wall/). The walls would therefore not fit within the area that real-world madagascar would have (This map also allows you to see just that http://davidmear.com/snk/map/)

      Also, mind that there is a considerable distance between Shinganshima and the port. Enough distance so that every single expedition that happened prior to the 850 events failed to reach to the port. Also, as of the last chapter, Theo and the bois where 5 hours from the port by horse, and I assume that by that point they already had put some ground between themselves and Shinganshima. So that leaves us with about 170-200 miles at the very least.

      I tried to calculate the average lenght of a colossal titan step, taking into consideration that a regular sized human has a step lenght of roughly 0,84m. Thus, a 60m should have one ranging from 28,5m to 34m, which is also plausible from what we've seen from his movements within shinganshima, where Bertholdt made it across the district in no more than a few minutes, even while having Eren and the other soldiers as setbacks. I couldn't pinpoint an average moving speed to them tough.

      So my final consideration is this. Altough it is possible for the first titans to have reached the sea already, I think that the statement that Hange made was mostly speculation, as there's no current evidence of their progress. They will eventually get there, make no mistake, but as of right now, I don't think they can cover such a distance that fast. Also, I wonder how they'd be able to walk on the deeper parts of the ocean floor, as they can easily exceed more than ten times the size of the colossals in depth at some parts of their path towards mainland (assuming that their world resembles ours, that is)

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    • RotaryBoi wrote:

      Also, I wonder how they'd be able to walk on the deeper parts of the ocean floor, as they can easily exceed more than ten times the size of the colossals in depth at some parts of their path towards mainland (assuming that their world resembles ours, that is)

      LOL  It would be amusing if a Colossal Titan were to suddenly fall down into a dark ocean depth.  X)

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    • EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:Winston4278 wrote: Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Carlo was all it took for Sasha to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Sasha despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".

      I really hope you see how stupid you sound.  You're completely missing the point of this whole manga.  There are no good or bad guys in this series, everyone is in their own gray area.  Just because Gabi killed off a character with a big fan base does not make her evil.

      See that? That right there. THAT is my problem with some people in the fandom. You sit in your ivory tower looking down on people who don't 'understand' the 'complexity' of the series. I understand it just fine. I just don't care. Nor should I have to. I'm a little tired of some people trying to force us to 'understand' or 'have compassion for' characters that have done nothing to earn any empathy.

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    • Nothing you just said would make her a Mary Sue. If surviving the series they are in makes a character a Mary Sue (which it doesn't) then almost all fictional characters in existence are Mary Sues.

      "Mary Sue is a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws, originally written as an idealized version of an author in fanfiction."

      How does that NOT fit Gabi? Fictional female? Check. Too perfect? Definitely considering her track record for success without consequence. Boring for lack of flaws? More than boring, really, more like headscratching, and seen by her stans as the perfect loli waifu. Idealized version of the author? Hell yes, he said himself she's basically a female Eren, but unlike what he wanted, she lacks the empathetic and likable qualities that we have seen in Eren throughout the series.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:Winston4278 wrote: Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Carlo was all it took for Sasha to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Sasha despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".

      I really hope you see how stupid you sound.  You're completely missing the point of this whole manga.  There are no good or bad guys in this series, everyone is in their own gray area.  Just because Gabi killed off a character with a big fan base does not make her evil.

      See that? That right there. THAT is my problem with some people in the fandom. You sit in your ivory tower looking down on people who don't 'understand' the 'complexity' of the series. I understand it just fine. I just don't care. Nor should I have to. I'm a little tired of some people trying to force us to 'understand' or 'have compassion for' characters that have done nothing to earn any empathy.

      If you don't care about understanding the story the right way then I don't care to listen to your opinion.  Besides, Gabi is a far better character than Sasha since Gabi did more in a single arc than Sasha had done the entire story.  

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Nothing you just said would make her a Mary Sue. If surviving the series they are in makes a character a Mary Sue (which it doesn't) then almost all fictional characters in existence are Mary Sues.

      "Mary Sue is a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws, originally written as an idealized version of an author in fanfiction."

      How does that NOT fit Gabi? Fictional female? Check. Too perfect? Definitely considering her track record for success without consequence. Boring for lack of flaws? More than boring, really, more like headscratching, and seen by her stans as the perfect loli waifu. Idealized version of the author? Hell yes, he said himself she's basically a female Eren, but unlike what he wanted, she lacks the empathetic and likable qualities that we have seen in Eren throughout the series.

      I can't help but notice that you left out the fact that Mary Sues "usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero." I'm not exactly surprised, given that Gabi in no way matches up to this definition.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Nothing you just said would make her a Mary Sue. If surviving the series they are in makes a character a Mary Sue (which it doesn't) then almost all fictional characters in existence are Mary Sues.

      "Mary Sue is a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws, originally written as an idealized version of an author in fanfiction."

      How does that NOT fit Gabi? Fictional female? Check. Too perfect? Definitely considering her track record for success without consequence. Boring for lack of flaws? More than boring, really, more like headscratching, and seen by her stans as the perfect loli waifu. Idealized version of the author? Hell yes, he said himself she's basically a female Eren, but unlike what he wanted, she lacks the empathetic and likable qualities that we have seen in Eren throughout the series.

      Wrong wrong and wrong again. For one success without consequences is bullshit. Her killing Sasha failed to stop Paradis attack got herself and Falco captured her at the mercy of her enemies. There she proceeds to fail left and write she can’t really escape can’t kill anyone she tries to (Kaya or Eren) can’t farm for shit, and has dragged Falco through here and cost some more Marleyans saving his life from Zeke’s scream. Also failed to understand she had been lied to by Marley for a good deal of time and pretty much had to get that shit drilled into her head after embarrassment after embarrassment until it stuck. That also ruins her lack of flaws nonsense. Also she’s not an idealized version of the author, he said she’s like a female Eren...but he’s said he and Eren are polar opposites and that made him hard to write at first and he didn’t even understand his own character until the anime came. Daz is the character that closely resembles the author and he killed him off!!

      So the only thing she checks off is a female character. Not a Mary Sue. Once again your wrong. Use a proper term like creators pet for once and maybe you’ll be accurate.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:Winston4278 wrote: Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Sasha was all it took for Gabi to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Gabi despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".
      Correct. Because no matter how unlikable she was in the beginning, killing Carlo was all it took for Sasha to deserve death, and nothing she does will ever atone for that. And as long as that self-insert runs around with plot armor, I will continue to call her a Mary Sue. And in case you aren't paying attention, there are still plenty of people who hate Sasha despite her sorry excuse for "redemption".

      I really hope you see how stupid you sound.  You're completely missing the point of this whole manga.  There are no good or bad guys in this series, everyone is in their own gray area.  Just because Gabi killed off a character with a big fan base does not make her evil.

      See that? That right there. THAT is my problem with some people in the fandom. You sit in your ivory tower looking down on people who don't 'understand' the 'complexity' of the series. I understand it just fine. I just don't care. Nor should I have to. I'm a little tired of some people trying to force us to 'understand' or 'have compassion for' characters that have done nothing to earn any empathy.

      Better then sitting in your tower refusing to understand things. You claim other people in the fandom are problems but you don’t seem to consider anything but your own perspective. You claim to understand it but you don’t. Nor is anyone forcing you to care the fact of the matter is there is more to this conflict then you want there to be. The situation is more grey then you want it to be. Instead you say things that are false, such as these characters don’t have likable qualities and when that’s pointed out to you you say none of them makes them likable like it’s a fact. It isn’t but you say it anyway then get annoyed when people rightfully call you out on some of the things you get wrong or try to remove from the story to fit a narrative trying to justify genocide.

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    • At what point do we just stop this Penguinluver1431 from posting. Because I for one am sick of it. They make this board unpleasant to come to. They repeat the exact same words in the exact same order multiple times in every single thread no matter how many times the rhetoric is exposed as blatant lying and baseless opinion. 

      They divert every thread away from its intended purpose to broadcast some childish personal vitriol that I would expect to read in the diary of a spoiled 12 year old girl. They don't even respond to anyone that addresses them, every reply is only used to dish out the same single tired old thought that seems to be bouncing around the inside of their empty head like a fly trying to get out of a window.

      I came here, as always, to read about and post my own thoughts about the chapter. But I feel compelled to write this instead after having to slog through the walls of bullshit Penguinluver1431 has smeared across my screen once again.

      Please do something about it admins, I can't be the only one who feels this way.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote: At what point do we just stop this Penguinluver1431 from posting. Because I for one am sick of it. They make this board unpleasant to come to. They repeat the exact same words in the exact same order multiple times in every single thread no matter how many times the rhetoric is exposed as blatant lying and baseless opinion. 

      They divert every thread away from its intended purpose to broadcast some childish personal vitriol that I would expect to read in the diary of a spoiled 12 year old girl. They don't even respond to anyone that addresses them, every reply is only used to dish out the same single tired old thought that seems to be bouncing around the inside of their empty head like a fly trying to get out of a window.

      I came here, as always, to read about and post my own thoughts about the chapter. But I feel compelled to write this instead after having to slog through the walls of bullshit Penguinluver1431 has smeared across my screen once again.

      Please do something about it admins, I can't be the only one who feels this way.

      I just left my final response to Penguinluver on Chapter 127's thread, here. It's literally like talking to a brick wall with this guy. I'm not saying people in the fandom should agree on everything, but you're right he hijacks every chapter discussion with his anti-Gabi vitriol and "the world deserves to be exterminated by Eren" shtick. It's beyond unbearable at this point.

      I don't know if the admins will do anything about it, but I for one have found less enjoyment in discussing these chapters as of late due to this. Ironically, the discussions on the series' subreddit are less hectic and bizarre than most of the rants he's had here.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote: At what point do we just stop this Penguinluver1431 from posting. Because I for one am sick of it. They make this board unpleasant to come to. They repeat the exact same words in the exact same order multiple times in every single thread no matter how many times the rhetoric is exposed as blatant lying and baseless opinion. 

      They divert every thread away from its intended purpose to broadcast some childish personal vitriol that I would expect to read in the diary of a spoiled 12 year old girl. They don't even respond to anyone that addresses them, every reply is only used to dish out the same single tired old thought that seems to be bouncing around the inside of their empty head like a fly trying to get out of a window.

      I came here, as always, to read about and post my own thoughts about the chapter. But I feel compelled to write this instead after having to slog through the walls of bullshit Penguinluver1431 has smeared across my screen once again.

      Please do something about it admins, I can't be the only one who feels this way.

      I hardly mentioned Gabi in my initial review since she barely did anything this chapter anyhow. The first response to me was that I should be more willing to forgive Magath after his heel-turn, at which point somebody ELSE said "Don't bother, that's the same guy who calls Sasha's father a coward for not killing Gabi". THAT was what started the Gabi convo again.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote: At what point do we just stop this Penguinluver1431 from posting. Because I for one am sick of it. They make this board unpleasant to come to. They repeat the exact same words in the exact same order multiple times in every single thread no matter how many times the rhetoric is exposed as blatant lying and baseless opinion. 

      They divert every thread away from its intended purpose to broadcast some childish personal vitriol that I would expect to read in the diary of a spoiled 12 year old girl. They don't even respond to anyone that addresses them, every reply is only used to dish out the same single tired old thought that seems to be bouncing around the inside of their empty head like a fly trying to get out of a window.

      I came here, as always, to read about and post my own thoughts about the chapter. But I feel compelled to write this instead after having to slog through the walls of bullshit Penguinluver1431 has smeared across my screen once again.

      Please do something about it admins, I can't be the only one who feels this way.

      I personally don’t care that he doesn’t like Gabi or that he wants the warriors to die. No ones obligated to like any character and I’m not here to make him care. I’m mostly just annoyed of the blatantly false things he says such as the Mary Sue thing we’ve proven wrong several times already (like seriously it won’t kill you to change the term to something correct) his doubling down on using those terms inspite of the facts and using his own head canon otherwise also acting like we’re the problem because we don’t live in the nonexistent black and white world he wants this story to be.

      That being said I’m not advocating for the admins to remove him or shit like that.

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    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      That being said I’m not advocating for the admins to remove him or shit like that.

      Okay, but nothing else has worked.  Maybe banning him's the only solution that'd work.

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    • Isaac Zehnder wrote: I wonder, It is that War for Paradis arc really War of the World meets Planet of the Apes (no aliens/martians and/or apes, just titans or Rumbling Wall Titan) with philosophical theme of Muv-Luv Alternatives (involve in Paradis Island or the world, should) Isayama inspired.  

      What's your Q&A comments bellow: post a reply at your own risk and rethink yourselves.

      What about Neon Genesis Evangelion, isn't there like some similarities to AoT?

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    • Freeman1378 wrote: I guess I'm going to be the one playing devil's advocate in regards to this chapter. 

      Pros: 

      - The drawing was good especially the gore which was incredibly realistic & gruesome to behold. 

      Cons: 

      - When I rewatched season 3 part 2 one thing that definitely impressed me was how solid Floch was as a character.  He was brutally honest to a fault and the pragmatist who said things like they are instead of how others wished they were which I think set him up perfectly as a rational counterbalance to many of the main characters emotional sides (Side note: props to his JP voice actor who was excellent). However I feel like his character has been botched in this arc as he has become a mindless one dimensional thug and honestly every time he opens his mouth my eyes roll into another dimension as he comes across as transparently psychotic rather than a person with a valid point.  He isn't the rational pragmatist that the Yeagerists need to be a credible threat or valid counterpoint to the protagonists but instead has de-evolved into a heel who only exists to prolong the plot. 

      - The dialogue was also a major problem with this chapter & potentially the arc in general as it was flat, repetitive (four characters say "why are we killing each other!" or a variant of it), and preachy (Kyle Broflovski called he wants his "I learned something today" speeches back). When you are focusing extensively on characters like this the dialogue needs to be strong or else the story is a dud, that is a basic truth of storytelling (Ex. Better Call Saul & Breaking Bad are great because of the stellar dialogue writing). Isayama has written some great dialogue in the past especially in Marley but this arc has been nothing short of rough and it is telling that the best chapter of the arc was the one where barely anyone talked. 

      - I hated the revival of Daz & Samuel for the "why are we killing each other!!!" moment because A.) I straight up forgot who Samuel was and honestly thought he was Thomas who died in Trost, B.) I only remember Daz because he's a meme and looks like he was kicked by a mule, and C.) using left over cannon fodder for a emotional gut punch is beyond stupid and emotionally false to the core. 

      - Finally, I truly hate what Armin has become as he is just unbearably naive & whiny these days and I feel that his character has been in heavy decline since his revival. I can sympathize with his whole "boo to killing the human race" stance but he just feels like he is missing that intensity & will to fight that made him so enjoyable throughout the series and has de-evolved all the way back to Trost when he spent the majority of the time crying & whining which was fine then since it was the start of a character arc but isn't a great look this late in the game. I was intitially going to include Hange here but I'll give her/him a pass since it was setup back in Uprising and is at least logical & consistent with her character. 

      Overall: 

      - I have read this chapter a few times already and I dislike it more each time. I think the main reasons why I'm so dispassionate towards this arc & chapters like this is that the dialogue is rote for something that is meant to be character focused, the conveniences are making the arc feel disingenous & mechanical, the stakes are weak so far for an apocalyptic endgame, large parts of this arc feel like a rerun of Uprising, staying out of Eren's POV for extended periods of time feels like a mistake as everybody has been simply been reacting to him despite the fact that he is the primary driver of the plot, and most prominently the pacing has been nothing short of strange with some chapters coming to a grinding halt for no particular reason (123) while others speed through entire character arcs at the speed of light (Connie in 126, Annie's reintroduction to the core cast in the same chapter). I'm still trying to maintain optimism for the series and I hope that a big death or moment in the future will give the series a renewed sense of vigour like the three chapter trip to the paths did but for now I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the series to improve as a whole or reach its next grand event.  

      - Side Note: I do think that the anime's incredible VA work and excellent music will solve some of these problems as it will make the duller moments more energetic but hopefully unlike RTS, WIT is not afraid of rearranging & rewriting many aspects of the arc to improve it (ie. combining chapter 123 & 124). 

      Okay can you please explain how is Armin "whiny"?

      Look I can get behind your disdain or disappointment with Floch and his character, although I think he is rather a important representation of a once honest man then brainwashed into nationalism. However Armin is just trying to limit bloodshed the best he can, at this point hasn't enough graves been dug?

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    • EthanPHX wrote: What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) Ever since 124 the manga has been going downhill with this whole alliance bullshit.  Yeagerists being nothing but jobber fodder is annoying too, why can't there be some yeagerists that pose an actual threat to the main cast?  Why not bring back Rico or Hannah and have them side with the Yeagerists.  Why do we have to have Floch run the yeagerists when he is the most incompetent member of the 104th, especially after being strangled by an old ass lady (which is a complete asspule)  

      It was cool seeing Daz and Samuel return after a decade, but they died right after so I guess the whole point of them returning was to give Connie more development.  I don't know, with the way the manga is going I'm really starting to lose faith in Isayama 

      Well yeah I can agree with you on Connie he has been kinda unbearable and just saying dumb stuff.

      However he is just overwhelmed with confusion and conflicted what to do. Plus it was justified and it was a bit of a moral dilemma in the same position as Bertolt and Reiner.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Freeman1378 wrote: I guess I'm going to be the one playing devil's advocate in regards to this chapter. 

      Pros: 

      - The drawing was good especially the gore which was incredibly realistic & gruesome to behold. 

      Cons: 

      - When I rewatched season 3 part 2 one thing that definitely impressed me was how solid Floch was as a character.  He was brutally honest to a fault and the pragmatist who said things like they are instead of how others wished they were which I think set him up perfectly as a rational counterbalance to many of the main characters emotional sides (Side note: props to his JP voice actor who was excellent). However I feel like his character has been botched in this arc as he has become a mindless one dimensional thug and honestly every time he opens his mouth my eyes roll into another dimension as he comes across as transparently psychotic rather than a person with a valid point.  He isn't the rational pragmatist that the Yeagerists need to be a credible threat or valid counterpoint to the protagonists but instead has de-evolved into a heel who only exists to prolong the plot. 

      - The dialogue was also a major problem with this chapter & potentially the arc in general as it was flat, repetitive (four characters say "why are we killing each other!" or a variant of it), and preachy (Kyle Broflovski called he wants his "I learned something today" speeches back). When you are focusing extensively on characters like this the dialogue needs to be strong or else the story is a dud, that is a basic truth of storytelling (Ex. Better Call Saul & Breaking Bad are great because of the stellar dialogue writing). Isayama has written some great dialogue in the past especially in Marley but this arc has been nothing short of rough and it is telling that the best chapter of the arc was the one where barely anyone talked. 

      - I hated the revival of Daz & Samuel for the "why are we killing each other!!!" moment because A.) I straight up forgot who Samuel was and honestly thought he was Thomas who died in Trost, B.) I only remember Daz because he's a meme and looks like he was kicked by a mule, and C.) using left over cannon fodder for a emotional gut punch is beyond stupid and emotionally false to the core. 

      - Finally, I truly hate what Armin has become as he is just unbearably naive & whiny these days and I feel that his character has been in heavy decline since his revival. I can sympathize with his whole "boo to killing the human race" stance but he just feels like he is missing that intensity & will to fight that made him so enjoyable throughout the series and has de-evolved all the way back to Trost when he spent the majority of the time crying & whining which was fine then since it was the start of a character arc but isn't a great look this late in the game. I was intitially going to include Hange here but I'll give her/him a pass since it was setup back in Uprising and is at least logical & consistent with her character. 

      Overall: 

      - I have read this chapter a few times already and I dislike it more each time. I think the main reasons why I'm so dispassionate towards this arc & chapters like this is that the dialogue is rote for something that is meant to be character focused, the conveniences are making the arc feel disingenous & mechanical, the stakes are weak so far for an apocalyptic endgame, large parts of this arc feel like a rerun of Uprising, staying out of Eren's POV for extended periods of time feels like a mistake as everybody has been simply been reacting to him despite the fact that he is the primary driver of the plot, and most prominently the pacing has been nothing short of strange with some chapters coming to a grinding halt for no particular reason (123) while others speed through entire character arcs at the speed of light (Connie in 126, Annie's reintroduction to the core cast in the same chapter). I'm still trying to maintain optimism for the series and I hope that a big death or moment in the future will give the series a renewed sense of vigour like the three chapter trip to the paths did but for now I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the series to improve as a whole or reach its next grand event.  

      - Side Note: I do think that the anime's incredible VA work and excellent music will solve some of these problems as it will make the duller moments more energetic but hopefully unlike RTS, WIT is not afraid of rearranging & rewriting many aspects of the arc to improve it (ie. combining chapter 123 & 124). 

      Okay can you please explain how is Armin "whiny"?

      Look I can get behind your disdain or disappointment with Floch and his character, although I think he is rather a important representation of a once honest man then brainwashed into nationalism. However Armin is just trying to limit bloodshed the best he can, at this point hasn't enough graves been dug?

      Since you replied to me directly & seem willing to engage in a thoughtful conversation, I'll clarify some of my feelings. 

      - The thing about Armin has been brewing for a while as Armin was actually one of my favourites from Trost till RTS. The thing I liked about Armin is that he acknowledged he wasn't very strong & was most likely doomed to die but he always kept fighting & inspiring his comrades in spite of this, even being the man who would get things done but his recent actions & dialogue counteract how he was before.  I also wholesale agree with Armin's stance that more chaos & mayhem is not worth it at this point but his transition from a realist to an optimist has rubbed me the wrong way as Armin comes across as naive in most of his dialogue where he believes that Hange or anybody in the corps can essentially broker world peace without putting much effort into realizing it (ie. he went from the world is hell & people can be cruel to we can talk it out in the span of the arc). I understand Isayama's intentions to show how difficult it is to go from fighting faceless monsters to flesh & blood humans and even having to fight your former comrades but the dialogue that has been given to the character paints him as weak minded & fragile like he was for large sections of Trost.

      - Also, I do think that Armin should have died back in RTS since it was the perfect culmination of his arc and Jean should have taken his position as the Colossal & Eren's moral counterpoint since Armin's current arc fits him better + the additional knife twist of dooming a healthy individual to titandom rather than someone on life support would have been nice. 

      - On the topic of Floch I actually don't mind that he is supposed to be a counterpoint to the Corps as well as a late game antagonist but I don't like how he has been handled.  I feel that Floch should have pragmatic to the extreme, the type of character who does what he feels needs to be done but takes no joy or pleasure in it. Like if he was the type that could rationally sit down with Kiyomi, Magath, or Armin and explain his point I think it would deepen the impact of the story and make the ensuing conflict stronger.  Unfortunately, I think that Isayama has shown his hand too easily by painting Floch as power hungry, cruel, unstable, and psychotic like some of histories easiest bad guys (Kim Jong Un, Ivan The Terrible etc.). As a result it isn't an interesting depiction of the lure of fascism but rather the simplistic view of fascism as total evil. 

      - Ultimately if I had to list a common flaw between the two characters it is the dialogue as I just don't find it very well done as it has that awkward cold feel that Japanese writers tend to use (ie. characters announce what they are feeling & talk like robots) and that combined with the simplistic approach which feels closer to an unironic version of South Park then peak HBO (Ie. Floch is dangerously close to saying something like "we're going to fight hate with more hate!") has been the key reason to why I didn't like the chapter or these characters.

      - I'll always remember the series for its many high points but this arc has been at best a ambitious mess with one or two great moments (Ex. 116-121 was pretty good & chapter 122 was perfect) and at worst like a flaming trainwreck I can't look away from with dull moments like Sasha's dad going full blown unironic "I learned something today" and the awful Yeagerist plotline constantly reminding me of the superior RDR 2 which truly made me hurt because the betrayals were well written and executed (Ie. using main characters rather than filler, the haunting dialogue) whereas this one has me waiting for them to be disposed of so the Eren conflict can be finished. 

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    • With Yelena's line "You can't take the violence away from people" paralleling hard the conversation between Uri and Kenny, right before Uri's death, Isayama has made it blatantly obvious that the story will end with the world at relative peace. The only thing that remains to be seen is what will that miracle be. Violence is necessary, but eventually it is not enough to alter the trajectory of history for the better. It only prolongs the cycle oh hatred. Which leads me to believe that Eren's defeat (if his goal is the rumbling) won't be simply a matter of power levels and fighting skills.

      The alliance besides Mikasa (and Levi) can't fight Eren. Mikasa and Levi are immune to Eren's powers due to their bloodline. Levi's story ends with Zeke, so he won't be going up against Eren. Magath is weak and the rest are all Eldians, susceptible to the power of the founding titan. Meaning, Eren can defeat the majority of his friends without killing them, simply by making use of his newfound powers. But if it comes down to a fight between Mikasa and Eren, if Mikasa is serious about stopping him then Eren's only option would be to kill her. If Eren is serious about destroying the world, then he will first have to kill Mikasa. So, it's really a matter of priorities for Eren at this point. Can he kill Mikasa for the sake of freedom and everyone else on Paradis? I'm sure he can't, so Eren's eventual failure is guaranteed.

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    • When Eren is still here at chapter 129? What do you think?

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    • Elal08 wrote:
      When Eren is still here at chapter 129? What do you think?

      Personnally, I think that there are high chances that we get to see his Titan form at the end of chapter 130 (as it'll be the last one of volume 32), or at the end of chapter 131, as a mirroring of the chapter 123. Currently, we're still in the battle at the port, so it's very unlikely that we get to see him before it's over.

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    • Razzylada wrote:
      Elal08 wrote:
      When Eren is still here at chapter 129? What do you think?
      Personnally, I think that there are high chances that we get to see his Titan form at the end of chapter 130 (as it'll be the last one of volume 32), or at the end of chapter 131, as a mirroring of the chapter 123. Currently, we're still in the battle at the port, so it's very unlikely that we get to see him before it's over.

      Really? It's have a Volume 33? 

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    • Elal08 wrote:

      Razzylada wrote:
      Elal08 wrote:
      When Eren is still here at chapter 129? What do you think?
      Personnally, I think that there are high chances that we get to see his Titan form at the end of chapter 130 (as it'll be the last one of volume 32), or at the end of chapter 131, as a mirroring of the chapter 123. Currently, we're still in the battle at the port, so it's very unlikely that we get to see him before it's over.

      Really? It's have a Volume 33? 

      I mean I think it’s just based off the amount of chapters in each volume. Given previous volumes it would make sense that 31 would end there and 32 would be what finishes it (afterall I cant imagine this being that much longer)

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    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Elal08 wrote:

      Razzylada wrote:
      Elal08 wrote:
      When Eren is still here at chapter 129? What do you think?
      Personnally, I think that there are high chances that we get to see his Titan form at the end of chapter 130 (as it'll be the last one of volume 32), or at the end of chapter 131, as a mirroring of the chapter 123. Currently, we're still in the battle at the port, so it's very unlikely that we get to see him before it's over.
      Really? It's have a Volume 33? 
      I mean I think it’s just based off the amount of chapters in each volume. Given previous volumes it would make sense that 31 would end there and 32 would be what finishes it (after all I can't imagine this being that much longer)

      That's true, but... Volume 32 is last volume? And chapter 130 is the last chapter? Or not?

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    • Elal08 wrote:

      That's true, but... Volume 32 is last volume? And chapter 130 is the last chapter? Or not?

      Volume 32 definitely can't be last volume, or that'll mean we have only two chapters left before the end, which is litterally impossible. 

      And I personnally doubt we will see the end at volume 33, that'll mean we have 6 chapters left. That'd mean that within these 6 chapters, we'll have to cover the battle of the port, the travel to Eren in plane, some "final battle" or whatever finale we're going to have related to Eren, which will necessarilly take a few chapters. And after that, we'll need some conclusion chapters (talking between the survivors, explanations for the politic conclusion and the Titan-related conclusion), Historia need to be reintroduced, we have to see her giving birth. 

      And end by chapter 138 (Volume 34) is more believable. Or even chapter 142, considering that every time we think the end is soon, we see that there's still many things to cover. But there, I think 142 would be the maximum, so I'd mostly got for 138 chapters. 

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    • Razzylada wrote:
      Elal08 wrote:

      That's true, but... Volume 32 is last volume? And chapter 130 is the last chapter? Or not?

      Volume 32 definitely can't be last volume, or that'll mean we have only two chapters left before the end, which is litterally impossible. 

      And I personnally doubt we will see the end at volume 33, that'll mean we have 6 chapters left. That'd mean that within these 6 chapters, we'll have to cover the battle of the port, the travel to Eren in plane, some "final battle" or whatever finale we're going to have related to Eren, which will necessarilly take a few chapters. And after that, we'll need some conclusion chapters (talking between the survivors, explanations for the politic conclusion and the Titan-related conclusion), Historia need to be reintroduced, we have to see her giving birth. 

      And end by chapter 138 (Volume 34) is more believable. Or even chapter 142, considering that every time we think the end is soon, we see that there's still many things to cover. But there, I think 142 would be the maximum, so I'd mostly got for 138 chapters. 

      Yes... Volume 32 cover is coming soon. After the end of the manga, the anime is airing in Japan and Adult Swim's Toonami is airing next year. Right?

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    • Elal08 wrote:

      Yes... Volume 32 cover is coming soon. After the end of the manga, the anime is airing in Japan and Adult Swim's Toonami is airing next year. Right?

      The production of season 4 will likely begin before the end of the manga (but that I don't think it'll air before the end of the manga tho). But even if the first part is supposed to air in 2021, considering the current pandemy and all the consequences it has/will have... We can't say if it'll be delayed or not. The production hasn't began yet, despite some visuals of 854 Eren revealed by the animators.

      I've heard that the comittee that reunites WIT Studios and other studios (like IG Productions) plans to divise the work between WIT, that'd do the "big episodes" (most importants/ the ones that needs the best animation), and the other episodes will be done by the other studios belonging to the same comittee. HOWEVER, this has to be taken with A LOT of caution, because this rumor has been heard for the first time the 1st april of this year, so.... 

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    • Razzylada wrote:
      Elal08 wrote:

      Yes... Volume 32 cover is coming soon. After the end of the manga, the anime is airing in Japan and Adult Swim's Toonami is airing next year. Right?

      The production of season 4 will likely begin before the end of the manga (but that I don't think it'll air before the end of the manga tho). But even if the first part is supposed to air in 2021, considering the current pandemy and all the consequences it has/will have... We can't say if it'll be delayed or not. The production hasn't began yet, despite some visuals of 854 Eren revealed by the animators.

      I've heard that the comittee that reunites WIT Studios and other studios (like IG Productions) plans to divise the work between WIT, that'd do the "big episodes" (most importants/ the ones that needs the best animation), and the other episodes will be done by the other studios belonging to the same comittee. HOWEVER, this has to be taken with A LOT of caution, because this rumor has been heard for the first time the 1st april of this year, so.... 

      1st april in Season 2's 3rd Anniversary of AOT, but I talk about a Season 4. So... It's have a 2 parts (like 3rd Season), but I talk about a English dub airing in next year. The main characters' English VA are same and the new characters needs new (Japanese and English), right?

      P.S.: Good grief. You're the best.

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    • Elal08 wrote:

      1st april in Season 2's 3rd Anniversary of AOT, but I talk about a Season 4. So... It's have a 2 parts (like 3rd Season), but I talk about a English dub airing in next year. The main characters' English VA are same and the new characters needs new (Japanese and English), right?

      P.S.: Good grief. You're the best.

      I couldn't tell you about the dub... I don't think I've ever heard the dubbed versions of the anime, I couldn't tell you when the dubbed season 4 is airing. Especially as to know this we'd need to know the release date of season 4 in Japan.

      PS : Thanks :P 

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    • Razzylada wrote:
      Elal08 wrote:

      1st april in Season 2's 3rd Anniversary of AOT, but I talk about a Season 4. So... It's have a 2 parts (like 3rd Season), but I talk about a English dub airing in next year. The main characters' English VA are same and the new characters needs new (Japanese and English), right?

      P.S.: Good grief. You're the best.

      I couldn't tell you about the dub... I don't think I've ever heard the dubbed versions of the anime, I couldn't tell you when the dubbed season 4 is airing. Especially as to know this we'd need to know the release date of season 4 in Japan.

      PS : Thanks :P 

      Yes... The Japan is airing in Fall 2020 in NHK General, but... It's streaming a Funimation and Crunchyroll?

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    • There's going to be at least 33 Volumes, there's no way this is ending in less than 6 Chapters. I'm thinking it's possible that Attack on Titan won't end this year considering how much still has to be done. Floch still needs to be taken down, & I'm expecting a lengthy battle to stop Eren. Then there also needs to be an epilogue for the series & let's not forget that we haven't even seen Falco's Jaw Titan yet. I wouldn't be opposed to Attack on Titan ending up with 37 Volumes for 150 Total Chapters as long as what we get is good enough.

      Keep in mind that Hizuru was on the side of Paradis & that Eren & his followers are content with wiping them out as well. Kiyomi & Mikasa defending Hizuru should be seen as obvious, seeing as Mikasa is supposed to be the leader of that nation. You can see how insane Floch has become by this point. Mikasa's death was awful, & Gabi deserves to suffer for it, although I think that should be done through her living with regret just like Reiner has been since Volume 23.

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    • WaterKirby1994 wrote: There's going to be at least 33 Volumes, there's no way this is ending in less than 6 Chapters. I'm thinking it's possible that Attack on Titan won't end this year considering how much still has to be done. Floch still needs to be taken down, & I'm expecting a lengthy battle to stop Eren. Then there also needs to be an epilogue for the series & let's not forget that we haven't even seen Falco's Jaw Titan yet. I wouldn't be opposed to Attack on Titan ending up with 37 Volumes for 150 Total Chapters as long as what we get is good enough.

      Keep in mind that Hizuru was on the side of Paradis & that Eren & his followers are content with wiping them out as well. Kiyomi & Mikasa defending Hizuru should be seen as obvious, seeing as Mikasa is supposed to be the leader of that nation. You can see how insane Floch has become by this point. Mikasa's death was awful, & Gabi deserves to suffer for it, although I think that should be done through her living with regret just like Reiner has been since Volume 23.

      Imma just assume you meant Sasha :P

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    • Razzylada wrote:
      Elal08 wrote:

      1st april in Season 2's 3rd Anniversary of AOT, but I talk about a Season 4. So... It's have a 2 parts (like 3rd Season), but I talk about a English dub airing in next year. The main characters' English VA are same and the new characters needs new (Japanese and English), right?

      P.S.: Good grief. You're the best.

      I couldn't tell you about the dub... I don't think I've ever heard the dubbed versions of the anime, I couldn't tell you when the dubbed season 4 is airing. Especially as to know this we'd need to know the release date of season 4 in Japan.

      PS : Thanks :P 

      Yeah we don't even known when the sub is going to release, even if we know its between October and December of this year, and that's if the current outbreak doesn't cause any delays, which is a real possibility unfortunately.  But the dubs have been about a few weeks after the sub releases, not like the first season when it was over a year.

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    • WaterKirby1994 wrote:
      There's going to be at least 33 Volumes, there's no way this is ending in less than 6 Chapters. I'm thinking it's possible that Attack on Titan won't end this year considering how much still has to be done. Floch still needs to be taken down, & I'm expecting a lengthy battle to stop Eren. Then there also needs to be an epilogue for the series & let's not forget that we haven't even seen Falco's Jaw Titan yet. I wouldn't be opposed to Attack on Titan ending up with 37 Volumes for 150 Total Chapters as long as what we get is good enough.

      Keep in mind that Hizuru was on the side of Paradis & that Eren & his followers are content with wiping them out as well. Kiyomi & Mikasa defending Hizuru should be seen as obvious, seeing as Mikasa is supposed to be the leader of that nation. You can see how insane Floch has become by this point. Mikasa's death was awful, & Gabi deserves to suffer for it, although I think that should be done through her living with regret just like Reiner has been since Volume 23.

      I don't think its going as far as 150, but I can agree that Isayama's aspiration (not promise) of ending the series this year is getting a little shaky.  I doubt 150 is where it will end, but I'd say 140 is a better estimate. But let's remember it all depends on where Isayama takes this. He can do something that totally derails how we see this going.  For instance, we still don't know what Eren is planning, and there is still sufficient proof that what he told Floch are lies.  Most of all, that fight you see against him may not happen, between the fact that nobody wants to fight him, and then how its still debatable as it was 28 chps ago that he is the villain.

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    • Attack on Titan will probably end with volume 33, 6 chapters from now. The last chapter will most likely be larger than the normal ones. Like 55-60 pages long. Any more chapters and the anime won't be able to cover it all in a single season, even if it's split into 2 parts. Considering that the anime has announced that Season 4 is going to be the last, i imagine that Isayama knows exactly what he wants to draw and how long it will take for him to draw it. After all, Isayama has made it his goal to end the series this year, something he has been saying since 2019. Even his editor said back in August that the series would end very soon. 

      The most the AoT anime has covered in a single season is 10 volumes. And it took 22 episodes and a reduction in content quantity for the Uprising arc. I find it extremely difficult for the anime to fit 11 volumes in 24-25 episodes, without cutting any content. Any more than that is straight up impossible, especially considering that the series has never produced any more than 25 episodes in a single season (and how hard that is). Even if it's split into 2 parts, i find it hard to believe that 1 part will be 8-10 episodes and the other one 18-20. 

      Not to mention, that the manga doesn't have a lot of things left at this point. I don't know what people expect to see, when they say that they expect the series to last up to chapter 140+. Floch and the Yeagerists will be dealt with in the next 2 chapters. 1 chapter for Eren's flashback like Zeke in 114. 1-2 chapters for the final "battle" against Eren and an extended bigger chapter for a closure. Fits perfectly.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote: Attack on Titan will probably end with volume 33, 6 chapters from now. The last chapter will most likely be larger than the normal ones. Like 55-60 pages long. Any more chapters and the anime won't be able to cover it all in a single season, even if it's split into 2 parts. Considering that the anime has announced that Season 4 is going to be the last, i imagine that Isayama knows exactly what he wants to draw and how long it will take for him to draw it. After all, Isayama has made it his goal to end the series this year, something he has been saying since 2019. Even his editor said back in August that the series would end very soon. 

      The most the AoT anime has covered in a single season is 10 volumes. And it took 22 episodes and a reduction in content quantity for the Uprising arc. I find it extremely difficult for the anime to fit 11 volumes in 24-25 episodes, without cutting any content. Any more than that is straight up impossible, especially considering that the series has never produced any more than 25 episodes in a single season (and how hard that is). Even if it's split into 2 parts, i find it hard to believe that 1 part will be 8-10 episodes and the other one 18-20. 

      Not to mention, that the manga doesn't have a lot of things left at this point. I don't know what people expect to see, when they say that they expect the series to last up to chapter 140+. Floch and the Yeagerists will be dealt with in the next 2 chapters. 1 chapter for Eren's flashback like Zeke in 114. 1-2 chapters for the final "battle" against Eren and an extended bigger chapter for a closure. Fits perfectly.

      I agree that it probably won't be a lot longer given that Season 4 is due to begin airing in the fall. Six more chapters would have the manga ending in October. That seems feasible.

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote: Attack on Titan will probably end with volume 33, 6 chapters from now. The last chapter will most likely be larger than the normal ones. Like 55-60 pages long. Any more chapters and the anime won't be able to cover it all in a single season, even if it's split into 2 parts. Considering that the anime has announced that Season 4 is going to be the last, i imagine that Isayama knows exactly what he wants to draw and how long it will take for him to draw it. After all, Isayama has made it his goal to end the series this year, something he has been saying since 2019. Even his editor said back in August that the series would end very soon. 

      The most the AoT anime has covered in a single season is 10 volumes. And it took 22 episodes and a reduction in content quantity for the Uprising arc. I find it extremely difficult for the anime to fit 11 volumes in 24-25 episodes, without cutting any content. Any more than that is straight up impossible, especially considering that the series has never produced any more than 25 episodes in a single season (and how hard that is). Even if it's split into 2 parts, i find it hard to believe that 1 part will be 8-10 episodes and the other one 18-20. 

      Not to mention, that the manga doesn't have a lot of things left at this point. I don't know what people expect to see, when they say that they expect the series to last up to chapter 140+. Floch and the Yeagerists will be dealt with in the next 2 chapters. 1 chapter for Eren's flashback like Zeke in 114. 1-2 chapters for the final "battle" against Eren and an extended bigger chapter for a closure. Fits perfectly.

      I agree that it probably won't be a lot longer given that Season 4 is due to begin airing in the fall. Six more chapters would have the manga ending in October. That seems feasible.

      Except it hasn't been confirmed when during the fall anime season this year that season 4 will premiere.  It could be in November or December for all we know.  All we know about it is that its going to be somewhere between the first weekend in october to the last weekend in December, and that's if Corona Virus doesn't disrupt it.

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    • As for the question of when we'll see Eren again. Judging by the breakneck pace of events over the past few chapters, it's not at all inconceivable that they'll find him by the end of the next chapter. I could easily see the cliffhanger of the very next chapter being the gang's plane flying through the steam cloud and emerging on the other side to a scene of Eren performing some significant act. Whether that'll be the rumbling that we think is happening or something else, I don't know.

      I don't think it's a coincidence that the founder's creative abilities (roads, bridges, infrastructure of some kind etc) has been hinted at throughout history but never explicitly shown except for the walls. Maybe even if he is flattening a portion of Marley, it could be with the intention of building something else in its place. As for what, who knows. We know that the power of the titans is based around flesh, could it be some kind of flesh based ritual? Mass human sacrifice? Who knows at this point.

      Of course he could just be carrying out the rumbling like it's been described up to this point but part of me does think they must be keeping us away from his POV and obscuring his actions for a reason.

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    • TKGriffiths wrote:
      As for the question of when we'll see Eren again. Judging by the breakneck pace of events over the past few chapters, it's not at all inconceivable that they'll find him by the end of the next chapter. I could easily see the cliffhanger of the very next chapter being the gang's plane flying through the steam cloud and emerging on the other side to a scene of Eren performing some significant act. Whether that'll be the rumbling that we think is happening or something else, I don't know.

      I don't think it's a coincidence that the founder's creative abilities (roads, bridges, infrastructure of some kind etc) has been hinted at throughout history but never explicitly shown except for the walls. Maybe even if he is flattening a portion of Marley, it could be with the intention of building something else in its place. As for what, who knows. We know that the power of the titans is based around flesh, could it be some kind of flesh based ritual? Mass human sacrifice? Who knows at this point.

      Of course he could just be carrying out the rumbling like it's been described up to this point but part of me does think they must be keeping us away from his POV and obscuring his actions for a reason.

      I'm glad ur discussing the possibility of how Eren may not be rumbling Marley, as I feel, aside from all the other evidence against it and calling him "the big bad", the way it was left to debate with LITERALLY a giant smokescreen of titan steam is a sign we're in for a twist.  Isayama wouldn't just leave it for debate like that if Eren would just rumble Marley at this point, just look at all the people twisting Hanje's PREDICTION into a fact lol the fact that all we got is a smokescreen at this point when it otherwise would've been certain that Eren is on a genocidal spree as of chp 123 is fishy to say the least, and should let people know we're in for a twist.  The Liberio attack was one thing, and it was justified given the full picture. But the rumbling is something else, and it doesn't fit his development.

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      TKGriffiths wrote:
      As for the question of when we'll see Eren again. Judging by the breakneck pace of events over the past few chapters, it's not at all inconceivable that they'll find him by the end of the next chapter. I could easily see the cliffhanger of the very next chapter being the gang's plane flying through the steam cloud and emerging on the other side to a scene of Eren performing some significant act. Whether that'll be the rumbling that we think is happening or something else, I don't know.

      I don't think it's a coincidence that the founder's creative abilities (roads, bridges, infrastructure of some kind etc) has been hinted at throughout history but never explicitly shown except for the walls. Maybe even if he is flattening a portion of Marley, it could be with the intention of building something else in its place. As for what, who knows. We know that the power of the titans is based around flesh, could it be some kind of flesh based ritual? Mass human sacrifice? Who knows at this point.

      Of course he could just be carrying out the rumbling like it's been described up to this point but part of me does think they must be keeping us away from his POV and obscuring his actions for a reason.

      I'm glad ur discussing the possibility of how Eren may not be rumbling Marley, as I feel, aside from all the other evidence against it and calling him "the big bad", the way it was left to debate with LITERALLY a giant smokescreen of titan steam is a sign we're in for a twist.  Isayama wouldn't just leave it for debate like that if Eren would just rumble Marley at this point, just look at all the people twisting Hanje's PREDICTION into a fact lol the fact that all we got is a smokescreen at this point when it otherwise would've been certain that Eren is on a genocidal spree as of chp 123 is fishy to say the least, and should let people know we're in for a twist.  The Liberio attack was one thing, and it was justified given the full picture. But the rumbling is something else, and it doesn't fit his development.

      Good point.  Well, I did once theorize that Eren's real plan might be to make Paradis and the outside world team up together to fight a common threat.  I did learn that humans, while normally fighting each other, will start cooperating with each other if they're under a global crisis.  It reminds me of Etrian Odyssey Nexus, where the main antagonist Blot wants to resurrect a seemingly-immortal superweapon to force humanity to work together and cooperate with each other for all eternity.  Start this video at the 9:53 mark to understand what I'm talking about:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLOp7eKYelU

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      TKGriffiths wrote:
      As for the question of when we'll see Eren again. Judging by the breakneck pace of events over the past few chapters, it's not at all inconceivable that they'll find him by the end of the next chapter. I could easily see the cliffhanger of the very next chapter being the gang's plane flying through the steam cloud and emerging on the other side to a scene of Eren performing some significant act. Whether that'll be the rumbling that we think is happening or something else, I don't know.

      I don't think it's a coincidence that the founder's creative abilities (roads, bridges, infrastructure of some kind etc) has been hinted at throughout history but never explicitly shown except for the walls. Maybe even if he is flattening a portion of Marley, it could be with the intention of building something else in its place. As for what, who knows. We know that the power of the titans is based around flesh, could it be some kind of flesh based ritual? Mass human sacrifice? Who knows at this point.

      Of course he could just be carrying out the rumbling like it's been described up to this point but part of me does think they must be keeping us away from his POV and obscuring his actions for a reason.

      I'm glad ur discussing the possibility of how Eren may not be rumbling Marley, as I feel, aside from all the other evidence against it and calling him "the big bad", the way it was left to debate with LITERALLY a giant smokescreen of titan steam is a sign we're in for a twist.  Isayama wouldn't just leave it for debate like that if Eren would just rumble Marley at this point, just look at all the people twisting Hanje's PREDICTION into a fact lol the fact that all we got is a smokescreen at this point when it otherwise would've been certain that Eren is on a genocidal spree as of chp 123 is fishy to say the least, and should let people know we're in for a twist.  The Liberio attack was one thing, and it was justified given the full picture. But the rumbling is something else, and it doesn't fit his development.
      Good point.  Well, I did once theorize that Eren's real plan might be to make Paradis and the outside world team up together to fight a common threat.  I did learn that humans, while normally fighting each other, will start cooperating with each other if they're under a global crisis.  It reminds me of Etrian Odyssey Nexus, where the main antagonist Blot wants to resurrect a seemingly-immortal superweapon to force humanity to work together and cooperate with each other for all eternity.  Start this video at the 9:53 mark to understand what I'm talking about:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLOp7eKYelU

      Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. Eren knows how grey the conflict is along with how his side is being attacked for the wrong reasons.  Considering Marley wasn't open to peace talks, he not only fought back against them but had to figure out a way to get them to learn the truth. If this was a black and white conflict, I'd have no issue with the rumbling, but its grey enough that Eren understands his enemy, and realized they are people just like him.  That's why I find it hard to believe he will just wipe them out, even if its for the good of his people in a sense. He didn't even want to kill titans anymore once he learned they were once people.

      I'm all for Eren fighting in the grey, making tough choices, etc. He's already displayed that in Liberio, and I commend him for it lol but the rumbling? Even Eren himself knows that its going too far, between everything he said about in chp 107, and how he knows the world is full of innocent people just like him.  I liked how much darker he got, which a mystery behind him, but through it all, calling him a villain was a stretch, and I'd be saying that if I didn't like Eren either lol

      Most agree on this secret plan over the rumbling. Let's see where it goes. Its already a sign that its something else that we got a smokescreen on Marley, not a sight of actualy destruction lol

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    • IAttackcjc wrote:
      CaptFredricks wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote: Attack on Titan will probably end with volume 33, 6 chapters from now. The last chapter will most likely be larger than the normal ones. Like 55-60 pages long. Any more chapters and the anime won't be able to cover it all in a single season, even if it's split into 2 parts. Considering that the anime has announced that Season 4 is going to be the last, i imagine that Isayama knows exactly what he wants to draw and how long it will take for him to draw it. After all, Isayama has made it his goal to end the series this year, something he has been saying since 2019. Even his editor said back in August that the series would end very soon. 

      The most the AoT anime has covered in a single season is 10 volumes. And it took 22 episodes and a reduction in content quantity for the Uprising arc. I find it extremely difficult for the anime to fit 11 volumes in 24-25 episodes, without cutting any content. Any more than that is straight up impossible, especially considering that the series has never produced any more than 25 episodes in a single season (and how hard that is). Even if it's split into 2 parts, i find it hard to believe that 1 part will be 8-10 episodes and the other one 18-20. 

      Not to mention, that the manga doesn't have a lot of things left at this point. I don't know what people expect to see, when they say that they expect the series to last up to chapter 140+. Floch and the Yeagerists will be dealt with in the next 2 chapters. 1 chapter for Eren's flashback like Zeke in 114. 1-2 chapters for the final "battle" against Eren and an extended bigger chapter for a closure. Fits perfectly.

      I agree that it probably won't be a lot longer given that Season 4 is due to begin airing in the fall. Six more chapters would have the manga ending in October. That seems feasible.
      Except it hasn't been confirmed when during the fall anime season this year that season 4 will premiere.  It could be in November or December for all we know.  All we know about it is that its going to be somewhere between the first weekend in october to the last weekend in December, and that's if Corona Virus doesn't disrupt it.

      It doesn't matter when the production will start. That's irrelevant. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Even if the production starts 3 months from now, what this means is that the series will be released later, not that the content will change or increase. 6 more chapters is the maximum the manga can reach without the content becoming too much for the anime to handle.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote: It doesn't matter when the production will start. That's irrelevant. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Even if the production starts 3 months from now, what this means is that the series will be released later, not that the content will change or increase. 6 more chapters is the maximum the manga can reach without the content becoming too much for the anime to handle.

      Yeah, precisely. I just really hope they don't rush this final arc like they did with parts of Uprising.

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    • Eren can change the position of all Titan Mahr warriors by excruciating blackmail. He will tell them: "I spare the Liberio camps and therefore your families if you let me shave the rest but if not I make them trample by the colossals" The choice will be made quickly. Total inversion, Mikasa and Armin find themselves facing all the titans

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    • Reiner and Annie have acted out so Frock has no chance of winning the port battle. It may go quickly All the Jaegerists are going to die Hannah Diamant, and Boris Feulner will return to die like Daz and Samuel. Hitch will probably die the same too. At 130 they will leave to join Eren because Yalena will show them the way.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      EthanPHX wrote:
      What makes me mad about this chapter is how no one will hate on Connie for killing his former comrades yet people will still blindly hate Gabi for killing Sasha (in which she was totally justified to do so since Sasha had no problem killing Marleyans defending themselves from Paradis' surprise attack) 
      Samuel and Daz, with all due respect, were minor characters, so having them killed by a main character is expected, even though I agree more with Sam and Diaz since they are Yeagerists. Sasha, however, was a well liked major character who ended up being killed by a cheap copy of the MC but without the redeeming qualities, instead a detestable Mary Sue killing someone fans actually liked.
      So because she has fans its unjustified?  I hate this reasoning so much.  Makes me wish she would've bit the dust back in the CoT arc where she was supposed to die infront of Kaya.
      At least if she died in CoT it would be because of Titans, which would have been a much better fit for the series' setting. Getting shot by some bitchy Hitler Youth just to shove the theme of "revenge is bad, everyone is redeemable, blah blah blah" down our throats is so much worse because it has nothing to do with Titans.
      Eye for an eye.  Gabi did nothing wrong

      Except laugh when she blew up a train of soldiers, aka war crime, blindly believe Marley's propaganda, kill Sasha and one other soldier, try to kill Kaya twice, BRAGGED about killing Sasha to Nicolo of all people, drags Falco into her shit every step of the way, shot Eren's head off, and STILL gets away with all of it.

      And again,it isn't because Sasha had "more fans", it's because she is a MUCH better character than Gabi Sue ever could be. Gabi Sue is a terrible character, she did EVERYTHING wrong, and needs to be given a gruesome death.

      I don't like Gaby because she was too arrogant. I find that the characters in the alliance are all really nice to Gaby. Jean even apologized. It is because of his fugue that the invasion of Paradise takes place so quickly. Kord and Porco are dead and many Mahr soldiers devoured. After the rumble started and the northwest Mahr was smashed by the titans.

      On the other hand she saved Kaya by killing the titan of Nils to redeem himself for having killed Sasha and is ashamed of having been a racist against the Eldians of Paradise and of having killed too many people. She seems really sincere, right?

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    • CaptFredricks wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote: It doesn't matter when the production will start. That's irrelevant. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Even if the production starts 3 months from now, what this means is that the series will be released later, not that the content will change or increase. 6 more chapters is the maximum the manga can reach without the content becoming too much for the anime to handle.

      Yeah, precisely. I just really hope they don't rush this final arc like they did with parts of Uprising.

      Except the change of pace in the anime with the uprising arc was justified, given how badly the chps were paced in the manga, and any and all world building and character interactions you may had felt were removed for the worst weren't really. Like the "friendship" Levi and that business guy had in the manga didn't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things. He was killed and then totally forgotten about, minus how it led to his son receving some development.  Most fans were very wary of how things went with the manga version of the uprising arc, even Isayama admitted he screwed up there. Sure he had the right ideas but the structure in which he executed them was wrong.

      I doubt this final arc will be rushed like that tho. They may have to rearrange a couple of things, but even that is unlikely. Also the statement that guy made about 6 more chps being the max the anime can handle is very debatable. Let's not forget we're surely going to get a break in between the season like we did with season 3, which was certaintly a network decision where they just want to give one show a break and give its time slot to another show. TV networks do that all the time.

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      CaptFredricks wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote: It doesn't matter when the production will start. That's irrelevant. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Even if the production starts 3 months from now, what this means is that the series will be released later, not that the content will change or increase. 6 more chapters is the maximum the manga can reach without the content becoming too much for the anime to handle.

      Yeah, precisely. I just really hope they don't rush this final arc like they did with parts of Uprising.
      Except the change of pace in the anime with the uprising arc was justified, given how badly the chps were paced in the manga, and any and all world building and character interactions you may had felt were removed for the worst weren't really. Like the "friendship" Levi and that business guy had in the manga didn't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things. He was killed and then totally forgotten about, minus how it led to his son receving some development.  Most fans were very wary of how things went with the manga version of the uprising arc, even Isayama admitted he screwed up there. Sure he had the right ideas but the structure in which he executed them was wrong.

      I doubt this final arc will be rushed like that tho. They may have to rearrange a couple of things, but even that is unlikely. Also the statement that guy made about 6 more chps being the max the anime can handle is very debatable. Let's not forget we're surely going to get a break in between the season like we did with season 3, which was certaintly a network decision where they just want to give one show a break and give its time slot to another show. TV networks do that all the time.

      It doesn't matter if the final season is split in 2 parts. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Marley arc is 16 chapters. 4 volumes. The least amount of episodes needed for it are about 8-9. Maybe more. And then you have the final arc which will be at least 11 volumes/28 chapters. The least amount of episodes for this should be around 16 episodes. If the series lasts another volume, then the anime will have to cover for it's second part at least 19 episodes. 16 episodes is already a huge jump from 8-9. 19 is too much. They can't produce that much for a single part. 

      Not to mention that 6 chapters are pretty much enough for the series to end. 10 chapters for what? For a few goons and Eren? AoT has 45 pages per chapter. That's more than enough to be honest. Especially since Isayama has made it his mission to end the series this year. The battle against Eren will start in the next volume. There aren't many things left.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      CaptFredricks wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote: It doesn't matter when the production will start. That's irrelevant. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Even if the production starts 3 months from now, what this means is that the series will be released later, not that the content will change or increase. 6 more chapters is the maximum the manga can reach without the content becoming too much for the anime to handle.

      Yeah, precisely. I just really hope they don't rush this final arc like they did with parts of Uprising.
      Except the change of pace in the anime with the uprising arc was justified, given how badly the chps were paced in the manga, and any and all world building and character interactions you may had felt were removed for the worst weren't really. Like the "friendship" Levi and that business guy had in the manga didn't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things. He was killed and then totally forgotten about, minus how it led to his son receving some development.  Most fans were very wary of how things went with the manga version of the uprising arc, even Isayama admitted he screwed up there. Sure he had the right ideas but the structure in which he executed them was wrong.

      I doubt this final arc will be rushed like that tho. They may have to rearrange a couple of things, but even that is unlikely. Also the statement that guy made about 6 more chps being the max the anime can handle is very debatable. Let's not forget we're surely going to get a break in between the season like we did with season 3, which was certaintly a network decision where they just want to give one show a break and give its time slot to another show. TV networks do that all the time.

      It doesn't matter if the final season is split in 2 parts. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Marley arc is 16 chapters. 4 volumes. The least amount of episodes needed for it are about 8-9. Maybe more. And then you have the final arc which will be at least 11 volumes/28 chapters. The least amount of episodes for this should be around 16 episodes. If the series lasts another volume, then the anime will have to cover for it's second part at least 19 episodes. 16 episodes is already a huge jump from 8-9. 19 is too much. They can't produce that much for a single part. 

      Not to mention that 6 chapters are pretty much enough for the series to end. 10 chapters for what? For a few goons and Eren? AoT has 45 pages per chapter. That's more than enough to be honest. Especially since Isayama has made it his mission to end the series this year. The battle against Eren will start in the next volume. There aren't many things left.

      The Marley arc has 21 chps, as 107-111 hasn't necessarily been designated a transtion arc of its own. But I agree that the story can still end this year, within 6-8 chps, even if I think Eren has more to the story than "the final villain" as believe it or not, most find it still up to debate, and not out of being in denial lol

      My only point about the anime being 2 cours last season 3 was is that there's no valid reason to have the manga be completely done by the time the season starts.  It was my initial prediction but after realizing things were going to be more drawn out than I thought, I realized the possibility that the manga may be ongoing still, albeit wrapping up, by the time season 4 starts.  I agree that Isayama can wrap this up by the end of this year, but I also now give it a 50/50 he may extend into next year with 1-2 chps, given how he admitted there were times he wanted to extend certain aspects for another chp or so.

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    • Attackcjc wrote:

      CaptFredricks wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote: It doesn't matter when the production will start. That's irrelevant. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Even if the production starts 3 months from now, what this means is that the series will be released later, not that the content will change or increase. 6 more chapters is the maximum the manga can reach without the content becoming too much for the anime to handle.

      Yeah, precisely. I just really hope they don't rush this final arc like they did with parts of Uprising.

      Except the change of pace in the anime with the uprising arc was justified, given how badly the chps were paced in the manga, and any and all world building and character interactions you may had felt were removed for the worst weren't really. Like the "friendship" Levi and that business guy had in the manga didn't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things. He was killed and then totally forgotten about, minus how it led to his son receving some development.  Most fans were very wary of how things went with the manga version of the uprising arc, even Isayama admitted he screwed up there. Sure he had the right ideas but the structure in which he executed them was wrong.

      I doubt this final arc will be rushed like that tho. They may have to rearrange a couple of things, but even that is unlikely. Also the statement that guy made about 6 more chps being the max the anime can handle is very debatable. Let's not forget we're surely going to get a break in between the season like we did with season 3, which was certaintly a network decision where they just want to give one show a break and give its time slot to another show. TV networks do that all the time.

      I strongly disagree with you on the Uprising arc. It was my favorite arc in the manga until these last two arcs, but while the anime adaptation was good, it felt too rushed. Not to mention that multiple scenes of Dimo Reeves were cut. The cuts were done at the expense of character development for him. It's really unfortunate.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Attackcjc wrote:
      CaptFredricks wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote: It doesn't matter when the production will start. That's irrelevant. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Even if the production starts 3 months from now, what this means is that the series will be released later, not that the content will change or increase. 6 more chapters is the maximum the manga can reach without the content becoming too much for the anime to handle.

      Yeah, precisely. I just really hope they don't rush this final arc like they did with parts of Uprising.
      Except the change of pace in the anime with the uprising arc was justified, given how badly the chps were paced in the manga, and any and all world building and character interactions you may had felt were removed for the worst weren't really. Like the "friendship" Levi and that business guy had in the manga didn't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things. He was killed and then totally forgotten about, minus how it led to his son receving some development.  Most fans were very wary of how things went with the manga version of the uprising arc, even Isayama admitted he screwed up there. Sure he had the right ideas but the structure in which he executed them was wrong.

      I doubt this final arc will be rushed like that tho. They may have to rearrange a couple of things, but even that is unlikely. Also the statement that guy made about 6 more chps being the max the anime can handle is very debatable. Let's not forget we're surely going to get a break in between the season like we did with season 3, which was certaintly a network decision where they just want to give one show a break and give its time slot to another show. TV networks do that all the time.

      It doesn't matter if the final season is split in 2 parts. The amount of episodes will remain the same. Marley arc is 16 chapters. 4 volumes. The least amount of episodes needed for it are about 8-9. Maybe more. And then you have the final arc which will be at least 11 volumes/28 chapters. The least amount of episodes for this should be around 16 episodes. If the series lasts another volume, then the anime will have to cover for it's second part at least 19 episodes. 16 episodes is already a huge jump from 8-9. 19 is too much. They can't produce that much for a single part. 

      Not to mention that 6 chapters are pretty much enough for the series to end. 10 chapters for what? For a few goons and Eren? AoT has 45 pages per chapter. That's more than enough to be honest. Especially since Isayama has made it his mission to end the series this year. The battle against Eren will start in the next volume. There aren't many things left.

      Actually, for Marley, they could get away with 6 or less, trim down on some of the repetitive exposition. First episode could easily cover the opening battle with the Mideast and probably the train ride back, the second covers life in Liberio, the third for the festival prep, then the fourth and fifth for the Liberio attack and the Walldian's POV near the end. And if they absolutely have to cover the flashbacks for RBA, one episode should be enough as most of the flashback chapters were filler and did not give new or relevant information.

      That leaves plenty of room remaining for the final arc (almost 20 episodes), and since some of the recent chapters feel rushed, trimming the Marley arc in the anime to the bare minimum needed (as opposed to the painfully slow and unnecessary exposition prior to Eren's attack) would allow the anime to expand on certain areas where we actually need more exposition (which probably also they can cut some of the dialogue from the early chapters of the final arc and start flowing directly into the first major battle).

        Loading editor
    • Actually, for Marley, they could get away with 6 or less, trim down on some of the repetitive exposition. First episode could easily cover the opening battle with the Mideast and probably the train ride back, the second covers life in Liberio, the third for the festival prep, then the fourth and fifth for the Liberio attack and the Walldian's POV near the end. And if they absolutely have to cover the flashbacks for RBA, one episode should be enough as most of the flashback chapters were filler and did not give new or relevant information.

      That leaves plenty of room remaining for the final arc (almost 20 episodes), and since some of the recent chapters feel rushed, trimming the Marley arc in the anime to the bare minimum needed (as opposed to the painfully slow and unnecessary exposition prior to Eren's attack) would allow the anime to expand on certain areas where we actually need more exposition (which probably also they can cut some of the dialogue from the early chapters of the final arc and start flowing directly into the first major battle).

      6 episodes or less for a 16 chapters arc? 16 chapters, 45 pages each. I find it amusing that you decided on your own which parts are irrelevant and didn't provide any significant content for the plot development. Isayama put these parts there for a reason. If there weren't necessary his editor would have pointed them out. Unless Isayama comes out and says that he is disappointed with the way he wrote the scenes, then there is absolutely no reason to assume that these scenes won't be animated. Especially considering that they are thematically significant to Reiner's character arc. Not to mention Eren's as well. Anyway, that's not happening. Not in a million years.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Actually, for Marley, they could get away with 6 or less, trim down on some of the repetitive exposition. First episode could easily cover the opening battle with the Mideast and probably the train ride back, the second covers life in Liberio, the third for the festival prep, then the fourth and fifth for the Liberio attack and the Walldian's POV near the end. And if they absolutely have to cover the flashbacks for RBA, one episode should be enough as most of the flashback chapters were filler and did not give new or relevant information.

      That leaves plenty of room remaining for the final arc (almost 20 episodes), and since some of the recent chapters feel rushed, trimming the Marley arc in the anime to the bare minimum needed (as opposed to the painfully slow and unnecessary exposition prior to Eren's attack) would allow the anime to expand on certain areas where we actually need more exposition (which probably also they can cut some of the dialogue from the early chapters of the final arc and start flowing directly into the first major battle).

      6 episodes or less for a 16 chapters arc? 16 chapters, 45 pages each. I find it amusing that you decided on your own which parts are irrelevant and didn't provide any significant content for the plot development. Isayama put these parts there for a reason. If there weren't necessary his editor would have pointed them out. Unless Isayama comes out and says that he is disappointed with the way he wrote the scenes, then there is absolutely no reason to assume that these scenes won't be animated. Especially considering that they are thematically significant to Reiner's character arc. Not to mention Eren's as well. Anyway, that's not happening. Not in a million years.

      I mean anything can happen. Things getting shortened is nowhere close to being out of the realm of possibility.

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    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Actually, for Marley, they could get away with 6 or less, trim down on some of the repetitive exposition. First episode could easily cover the opening battle with the Mideast and probably the train ride back, the second covers life in Liberio, the third for the festival prep, then the fourth and fifth for the Liberio attack and the Walldian's POV near the end. And if they absolutely have to cover the flashbacks for RBA, one episode should be enough as most of the flashback chapters were filler and did not give new or relevant information.

      That leaves plenty of room remaining for the final arc (almost 20 episodes), and since some of the recent chapters feel rushed, trimming the Marley arc in the anime to the bare minimum needed (as opposed to the painfully slow and unnecessary exposition prior to Eren's attack) would allow the anime to expand on certain areas where we actually need more exposition (which probably also they can cut some of the dialogue from the early chapters of the final arc and start flowing directly into the first major battle).
      6 episodes or less for a 16 chapters arc? 16 chapters, 45 pages each. I find it amusing that you decided on your own which parts are irrelevant and didn't provide any significant content for the plot development. Isayama put these parts there for a reason. If there weren't necessary his editor would have pointed them out. Unless Isayama comes out and says that he is disappointed with the way he wrote the scenes, then there is absolutely no reason to assume that these scenes won't be animated. Especially considering that they are thematically significant to Reiner's character arc. Not to mention Eren's as well. Anyway, that's not happening. Not in a million years.
      I mean anything can happen. Things getting shortened is nowhere close to being out of the realm of possibility.

      Well it wouldn't be the first time Isayama expressed a desire to change certain things about an arc in the anime (Uprising for starters, they definitely make the right call cutting some of the more repetitive exposition for the sake of progressing the story). Not to mention sometimes directors take their own creative liberties with scenes, provided it doesn't compromise too much of the author's original vision.

      Also consider the break cards usually have a boatload of information about the world of AoT, so anything that is excessively informative but not overly plot-relevant can just go on one of those and the more dedicated anime viewers can pause on those cards. 

      As for the Marley arc, where exactly have I misjudged what's plot relevant? The massive info dump Falco gets in the beginning could easily just be a short intro narrated by someone else, just like how the series started with a narration about humanity living in fear of the Titans. And the only thing about the RBA flashback that's really plot-relevant is seeing Marco devoured by Ymir, other than that, it's literally just the attack on Wall Maria "from the other side". That doesn't need to take up half the anime adaptation of the arc. And as I also said before, a LOT of what happens in the Marley arc is recapped in the beginning of the final arc, so it shouldn't need to take up too much of the anime. Nearly all the relevant parts to the remainder of the story begin once the festival begins, which is just shortly after the RBA flashback.

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    • Well, chapter 129 is delayed, and will be released in June due to the pandemy we're facing, as the people that usually help Isayama for make the chapters are being confined to (I think that's the reason, but even if it's not the chapter is still delayed due to the crisis).

      Source : Isayama's editor's Twitter acount

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:


      Actually, for Marley, they could get away with 6 or less, trim down on some of the repetitive exposition. First episode could easily cover the opening battle with the Mideast and probably the train ride back, the second covers life in Liberio, the third for the festival prep, then the fourth and fifth for the Liberio attack and the Walldian's POV near the end. And if they absolutely have to cover the flashbacks for RBA, one episode should be enough as most of the flashback chapters were filler and did not give new or relevant information.

      That leaves plenty of room remaining for the final arc (almost 20 episodes), and since some of the recent chapters feel rushed, trimming the Marley arc in the anime to the bare minimum needed (as opposed to the painfully slow and unnecessary exposition prior to Eren's attack) would allow the anime to expand on certain areas where we actually need more exposition (which probably also they can cut some of the dialogue from the early chapters of the final arc and start flowing directly into the first major battle).
      6 episodes or less for a 16 chapters arc? 16 chapters, 45 pages each. I find it amusing that you decided on your own which parts are irrelevant and didn't provide any significant content for the plot development. Isayama put these parts there for a reason. If there weren't necessary his editor would have pointed them out. Unless Isayama comes out and says that he is disappointed with the way he wrote the scenes, then there is absolutely no reason to assume that these scenes won't be animated. Especially considering that they are thematically significant to Reiner's character arc. Not to mention Eren's as well. Anyway, that's not happening. Not in a million years.
      I mean anything can happen. Things getting shortened is nowhere close to being out of the realm of possibility.
      Well it wouldn't be the first time Isayama expressed a desire to change certain things about an arc in the anime (Uprising for starters, they definitely make the right call cutting some of the more repetitive exposition for the sake of progressing the story). Not to mention sometimes directors take their own creative liberties with scenes, provided it doesn't compromise too much of the author's original vision.

      Also consider the break cards usually have a boatload of information about the world of AoT, so anything that is excessively informative but not overly plot-relevant can just go on one of those and the more dedicated anime viewers can pause on those cards. 

      As for the Marley arc, where exactly have I misjudged what's plot relevant? The massive info dump Falco gets in the beginning could easily just be a short intro narrated by someone else, just like how the series started with a narration about humanity living in fear of the Titans. And the only thing about the RBA flashback that's really plot-relevant is seeing Marco devoured by Ymir, other than that, it's literally just the attack on Wall Maria "from the other side". That doesn't need to take up half the anime adaptation of the arc. And as I also said before, a LOT of what happens in the Marley arc is recapped in the beginning of the final arc, so it shouldn't need to take up too much of the anime. Nearly all the relevant parts to the remainder of the story begin once the festival begins, which is just shortly after the RBA flashback.

      Every single part is significant. The battle of Fort Slava serves as an introduction to the new characters. The aftermath also establishes their personalities and Reiner's struggles. All of them are necessary, because some of the newly introduced characters play large roles later on, especially Gabi and Falco. Reiner's flashbacks are relevant, because of his discussion with Eren back in chapters 99-100. And they promote major themes of the series. The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now. If the anime skips all that, the result will be a sloppy, nonsensical adaptation, where the watcher won't be able to sympathize with the new characters. Something that goes against Isayama's wishes. Reiner was promoted to a main character by Isayama, officially. Yoy think the anime will throw away all of his development and the build up to it, because you think it slows down the plot? If that was the case, then there was no reason for the episode with the narration provided by Keith Shadis, nor the 104th Training Arc. I can think of a ton of  "plot-irrelevant" moments that helped develop characters who needed it. Writing a story effectvely, that is praised requires that moments. It requires establishing the main themes of each segment and the characters present. Else is a half-assed job, that indicates laziness.  

        Loading editor
    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:



      Actually, for Marley, they could get away with 6 or less, trim down on some of the repetitive exposition. First episode could easily cover the opening battle with the Mideast and probably the train ride back, the second covers life in Liberio, the third for the festival prep, then the fourth and fifth for the Liberio attack and the Walldian's POV near the end. And if they absolutely have to cover the flashbacks for RBA, one episode should be enough as most of the flashback chapters were filler and did not give new or relevant information.

      That leaves plenty of room remaining for the final arc (almost 20 episodes), and since some of the recent chapters feel rushed, trimming the Marley arc in the anime to the bare minimum needed (as opposed to the painfully slow and unnecessary exposition prior to Eren's attack) would allow the anime to expand on certain areas where we actually need more exposition (which probably also they can cut some of the dialogue from the early chapters of the final arc and start flowing directly into the first major battle).
      6 episodes or less for a 16 chapters arc? 16 chapters, 45 pages each. I find it amusing that you decided on your own which parts are irrelevant and didn't provide any significant content for the plot development. Isayama put these parts there for a reason. If there weren't necessary his editor would have pointed them out. Unless Isayama comes out and says that he is disappointed with the way he wrote the scenes, then there is absolutely no reason to assume that these scenes won't be animated. Especially considering that they are thematically significant to Reiner's character arc. Not to mention Eren's as well. Anyway, that's not happening. Not in a million years.
      I mean anything can happen. Things getting shortened is nowhere close to being out of the realm of possibility.
      Well it wouldn't be the first time Isayama expressed a desire to change certain things about an arc in the anime (Uprising for starters, they definitely make the right call cutting some of the more repetitive exposition for the sake of progressing the story). Not to mention sometimes directors take their own creative liberties with scenes, provided it doesn't compromise too much of the author's original vision.

      Also consider the break cards usually have a boatload of information about the world of AoT, so anything that is excessively informative but not overly plot-relevant can just go on one of those and the more dedicated anime viewers can pause on those cards. 

      As for the Marley arc, where exactly have I misjudged what's plot relevant? The massive info dump Falco gets in the beginning could easily just be a short intro narrated by someone else, just like how the series started with a narration about humanity living in fear of the Titans. And the only thing about the RBA flashback that's really plot-relevant is seeing Marco devoured by Ymir, other than that, it's literally just the attack on Wall Maria "from the other side". That doesn't need to take up half the anime adaptation of the arc. And as I also said before, a LOT of what happens in the Marley arc is recapped in the beginning of the final arc, so it shouldn't need to take up too much of the anime. Nearly all the relevant parts to the remainder of the story begin once the festival begins, which is just shortly after the RBA flashback.

      Every single part is significant. The battle of Fort Slava serves as an introduction to the new characters. The aftermath also establishes their personalities and Reiner's struggles. All of them are necessary, because some of the newly introduced characters play large roles later on, especially Gabi and Falco. Reiner's flashbacks are relevant, because of his discussion with Eren back in chapters 99-100. And they promote major themes of the series. The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now. If the anime skips all that, the result will be a sloppy, nonsensical adaptation, where the watcher won't be able to sympathize with the new characters. Something that goes against Isayama's wishes. Reiner was promoted to a main character by Isayama, officially. Yoy think the anime will throw away all of his development and the build up to it, because you think it slows down the plot? If that was the case, then there was no reason for the episode with the narration provided by Keith Shadis, nor the 104th Training Arc. I can think of a ton of  "plot-irrelevant" moments that helped develop characters who needed it. Writing a story effectvely, that is praised requires that moments. It requires establishing the main themes of each segment and the characters present. Else is a half-assed job, that indicates laziness.  

      "Every single part is significant. The battle of Fort Slava serves as an introduction to the new characters. The aftermath also establishes their personalities and Reiner's struggles. All of them are necessary, because some of the newly introduced characters play large roles later on, especially Gabi and Falco."

      Still should only require one episode of the anime, since the info dump at the beginning would be narrated before Falco is rescued, not given by Gabi. 

      Reiner's flashbacks are relevant, because of his discussion with Eren back in chapters 99-100.

      Again, if they absolutely have to do a flashback episode, it should only take ONE episode. Most of it is still filler and takes away from current events.

      And they promote major themes of the series. The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now. If the anime skips all that, the result will be a sloppy, nonsensical adaptation, where the watcher won't be able to sympathize with the new characters. Something that goes against Isayama's wishes. Reiner was promoted to a main character by Isayama, officially.

      You're forgetting that most anime viewers (myself included) only care about the Walldian side. And for some manga readers, not even Reiner's "tragic" backstory was enough to get them to care about the Marley side. The anime would be wise to avoid some of the more polarizing moments if they don't want to face the same decline as the manga. 

      Yoy think the anime will throw away all of his development and the build up to it, because you think it slows down the plot? If that was the case, then there was no reason for the episode with the narration provided by Keith Shadis, nor the 104th Training Arc. I can think of a ton of  "plot-irrelevant" moments that helped develop characters who needed it. Writing a story effectvely, that is praised requires that moments. It requires establishing the main themes of each segment and the characters present. Else is a half-assed job, that indicates laziness.  

      Okay, yeah, a number of moments from the early series could be seen as plot-irrelevant. Which is why some of them should have actually either been cut for just trimmed. Anime is a visual art, it relies more heavily on action sequences than dialogue. In the past, they've managed to blend the two quite well, but since one half of Marley was all political dialogue without action, and the other half was action without plot, the anime team will have to make tough choices on what to cut and what to keep if they want anime-only viewers to bother sticking around (remember there were quite a lot of people who stopped reading during Marley arc because of the drastic change in perspective and genre shift).

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now.

      It's just too bad that the story failed to make it work, at least in most peoples' eyes, since it seems like hardly anyone sympathizes with them; for example, I see things like this on TVTropes:  "Hate Sink: Initially, the upper government in Marley is this. As more of the situation is revealed, they become far more nuanced, but the fact that they're basically the Nazis makes it difficult to really sympathize with them."



      I will say this, though:  Maybe the anime could do a better job with that?  That's an idea I'm open about.

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now.

      It's just too bad that the story failed to make it work, at least in most peoples' eyes, since it seems like hardly anyone sympathizes with them; for example, I see things like this on TVTropes:  "Hate Sink: Initially, the upper government in Marley is this. As more of the situation is revealed, they become far more nuanced, but the fact that they're basically the Nazis makes it difficult to really sympathize with them."



      I will say this, though:  Maybe the anime could do a better job with that?  That's an idea I'm open about.

      I don’t think the Marley government is meant to be where are sympathies lie at all. In fact I think that’s where the main issue is that there the main problem who have enforced a status quo that has negatively impacted Marley as a whole and by nature the world since there leading super power. Which Alos somewhat aligns with the Nazi party comparison. Not like Every German was down with genocide

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    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Drivebladesman wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now.

      It's just too bad that the story failed to make it work, at least in most peoples' eyes, since it seems like hardly anyone sympathizes with them; for example, I see things like this on TVTropes:  "Hate Sink: Initially, the upper government in Marley is this. As more of the situation is revealed, they become far more nuanced, but the fact that they're basically the Nazis makes it difficult to really sympathize with them."



      I will say this, though:  Maybe the anime could do a better job with that?  That's an idea I'm open about.

      I don’t think the Marley government is meant to be where are sympathies lie at all. In fact I think that’s where the main issue is that there the main problem who have enforced a status quo that has negatively impacted Marley as a whole and by nature the world since there leading super power. Which Alos somewhat aligns with the Nazi party comparison. Not like Every German was down with genocide

      Even if not every German was "down with genocide", generally every German was punished for the Nazi party by having their military forcefully dismantled and/or under strict oversight from the rest of the world. So that won't exactly excuse Marleyan citizens or even Liberio Eldians of their government's crimes.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Drivebladesman wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now.

      It's just too bad that the story failed to make it work, at least in most peoples' eyes, since it seems like hardly anyone sympathizes with them; for example, I see things like this on TVTropes:  "Hate Sink: Initially, the upper government in Marley is this. As more of the situation is revealed, they become far more nuanced, but the fact that they're basically the Nazis makes it difficult to really sympathize with them."



      I will say this, though:  Maybe the anime could do a better job with that?  That's an idea I'm open about.

      I don’t think the Marley government is meant to be where are sympathies lie at all. In fact I think that’s where the main issue is that there the main problem who have enforced a status quo that has negatively impacted Marley as a whole and by nature the world since there leading super power. Which Alos somewhat aligns with the Nazi party comparison. Not like Every German was down with genocide

      Even if not every German was "down with genocide", generally every German was punished for the Nazi party by having their military forcefully dismantled and/or under strict oversight from the rest of the world. So that won't exactly excuse Marleyan citizens or even Liberio Eldians of their government's crimes.

      I mean...yeah that’s a general consequence of losing a war. You make sure that they can’t just restart one as soon as there back on there feet. I assume something similar will happen to Marley here if they survive and honestly needs to happen anyway cause of how there strong arming pretty much every nation they interact with to kiss there ass.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Eden Ushinatta wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Jayrob95 wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:



      Actually, for Marley, they could get away with 6 or less, trim down on some of the repetitive exposition. First episode could easily cover the opening battle with the Mideast and probably the train ride back, the second covers life in Liberio, the third for the festival prep, then the fourth and fifth for the Liberio attack and the Walldian's POV near the end. And if they absolutely have to cover the flashbacks for RBA, one episode should be enough as most of the flashback chapters were filler and did not give new or relevant information.

      That leaves plenty of room remaining for the final arc (almost 20 episodes), and since some of the recent chapters feel rushed, trimming the Marley arc in the anime to the bare minimum needed (as opposed to the painfully slow and unnecessary exposition prior to Eren's attack) would allow the anime to expand on certain areas where we actually need more exposition (which probably also they can cut some of the dialogue from the early chapters of the final arc and start flowing directly into the first major battle).
      6 episodes or less for a 16 chapters arc? 16 chapters, 45 pages each. I find it amusing that you decided on your own which parts are irrelevant and didn't provide any significant content for the plot development. Isayama put these parts there for a reason. If there weren't necessary his editor would have pointed them out. Unless Isayama comes out and says that he is disappointed with the way he wrote the scenes, then there is absolutely no reason to assume that these scenes won't be animated. Especially considering that they are thematically significant to Reiner's character arc. Not to mention Eren's as well. Anyway, that's not happening. Not in a million years.
      I mean anything can happen. Things getting shortened is nowhere close to being out of the realm of possibility.
      Well it wouldn't be the first time Isayama expressed a desire to change certain things about an arc in the anime (Uprising for starters, they definitely make the right call cutting some of the more repetitive exposition for the sake of progressing the story). Not to mention sometimes directors take their own creative liberties with scenes, provided it doesn't compromise too much of the author's original vision.

      Also consider the break cards usually have a boatload of information about the world of AoT, so anything that is excessively informative but not overly plot-relevant can just go on one of those and the more dedicated anime viewers can pause on those cards. 

      As for the Marley arc, where exactly have I misjudged what's plot relevant? The massive info dump Falco gets in the beginning could easily just be a short intro narrated by someone else, just like how the series started with a narration about humanity living in fear of the Titans. And the only thing about the RBA flashback that's really plot-relevant is seeing Marco devoured by Ymir, other than that, it's literally just the attack on Wall Maria "from the other side". That doesn't need to take up half the anime adaptation of the arc. And as I also said before, a LOT of what happens in the Marley arc is recapped in the beginning of the final arc, so it shouldn't need to take up too much of the anime. Nearly all the relevant parts to the remainder of the story begin once the festival begins, which is just shortly after the RBA flashback.

      Every single part is significant. The battle of Fort Slava serves as an introduction to the new characters. The aftermath also establishes their personalities and Reiner's struggles. All of them are necessary, because some of the newly introduced characters play large roles later on, especially Gabi and Falco. Reiner's flashbacks are relevant, because of his discussion with Eren back in chapters 99-100. And they promote major themes of the series. The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now. If the anime skips all that, the result will be a sloppy, nonsensical adaptation, where the watcher won't be able to sympathize with the new characters. Something that goes against Isayama's wishes. Reiner was promoted to a main character by Isayama, officially. Yoy think the anime will throw away all of his development and the build up to it, because you think it slows down the plot? If that was the case, then there was no reason for the episode with the narration provided by Keith Shadis, nor the 104th Training Arc. I can think of a ton of  "plot-irrelevant" moments that helped develop characters who needed it. Writing a story effectvely, that is praised requires that moments. It requires establishing the main themes of each segment and the characters present. Else is a half-assed job, that indicates laziness.  
      "Every single part is significant. The battle of Fort Slava serves as an introduction to the new characters. The aftermath also establishes their personalities and Reiner's struggles. All of them are necessary, because some of the newly introduced characters play large roles later on, especially Gabi and Falco."

      Still should only require one episode of the anime, since the info dump at the beginning would be narrated before Falco is rescued, not given by Gabi. 

      Reiner's flashbacks are relevant, because of his discussion with Eren back in chapters 99-100.

      Again, if they absolutely have to do a flashback episode, it should only take ONE episode. Most of it is still filler and takes away from current events.

      And they promote major themes of the series. The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now. If the anime skips all that, the result will be a sloppy, nonsensical adaptation, where the watcher won't be able to sympathize with the new characters. Something that goes against Isayama's wishes. Reiner was promoted to a main character by Isayama, officially.

      You're forgetting that most anime viewers (myself included) only care about the Walldian side. And for some manga readers, not even Reiner's "tragic" backstory was enough to get them to care about the Marley side. The anime would be wise to avoid some of the more polarizing moments if they don't want to face the same decline as the manga. 

      Yoy think the anime will throw away all of his development and the build up to it, because you think it slows down the plot? If that was the case, then there was no reason for the episode with the narration provided by Keith Shadis, nor the 104th Training Arc. I can think of a ton of  "plot-irrelevant" moments that helped develop characters who needed it. Writing a story effectvely, that is praised requires that moments. It requires establishing the main themes of each segment and the characters present. Else is a half-assed job, that indicates laziness.  

      Okay, yeah, a number of moments from the early series could be seen as plot-irrelevant. Which is why some of them should have actually either been cut for just trimmed. Anime is a visual art, it relies more heavily on action sequences than dialogue. In the past, they've managed to blend the two quite well, but since one half of Marley was all political dialogue without action, and the other half was action without plot, the anime team will have to make tough choices on what to cut and what to keep if they want anime-only viewers to bother sticking around (remember there were quite a lot of people who stopped reading during Marley arc because of the drastic change in perspective and genre shift).

      All of your arguments read like: I don't like the story and how it developed, i only care about Eren and the Walldians, screw everything else. And you assume that the majority of the fandom thinks the same and that the anime crew will have to cut some parts, because a small portion of the fandom dislikes it. Great reasoning there mate, but where is the proof that the quality of the series is going down? Did you get a sample from the Japanese fandom?  The people that actually buy the magazine? Did you check if there's a drop in sales or negative feedback? Because, i haven't seen proof of that. Even when Isayama decided to make changes during the Uprising arc, it was because HE felt that he didn't do a good job. Not because of negative feedback from a wiki written in english.

      Anime is a storytelling medium. Stories can't live survive on action alone. Especially Attack on Titan, where the action was never it's strongest point. For all it's action, Attack on Titan was better at creating a mysterious, anxiety-filled atmosphere, strengthened by a respectable cast. Now this cast has been developed more than ever. Cutting that development out would be a terrible decision. Anime viewers will stay and watch a respectable story, with likeable and fleshed out characters. You don't want to watch an anime. You want to watch an amv. Good for you, but that's not how story-telling works. At least not good story-telling.

      Ah, and one last thing. AoT as an anime has never been able to adapt 2 chapters in 1 episode consistently. First season: 34 chapters=25 eps. Second season:16 chapters=12eps. Season 3 part 1:22 chapters=12 episodes. Season 3 part 2:18 chapters=10episodes. Just LOL at the thought that 16 chapters can be adapted in 6 episodes. That's a travesty. 

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    • Drivebladesman wrote:
      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now.

      It's just too bad that the story failed to make it work, at least in most peoples' eyes, since it seems like hardly anyone sympathizes with them; for example, I see things like this on TVTropes:  "Hate Sink: Initially, the upper government in Marley is this. As more of the situation is revealed, they become far more nuanced, but the fact that they're basically the Nazis makes it difficult to really sympathize with them."



      I will say this, though:  Maybe the anime could do a better job with that?  That's an idea I'm open about.

      Did the story fail though? Falco is a hugely sympathetic character. Gabi hate seems to be going down with each passing chapter, Reiner is regarded as one of the best written characters in the series, Annie had a big fanbase from the beginning and so on. If anything, the story did a fine job.

      You say that Marley is basically Nazis, but are Floch and the Yeagerists any better? The ultra-nationalists who murder every single person that opposes them and their dream of an all-powerful Eldian Empire? The side of Paradis is not that much better. The only difference is that it's only now that they've got enough power to see their plans through. 

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    • You know guys, you can delete parts of the messages you're quoting... In order to avoid absurdely big messages in the thread, especially as everytime you're just answering for the last message and not all of the previous ones.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Drivebladesman wrote:
      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now.

      It's just too bad that the story failed to make it work, at least in most peoples' eyes, since it seems like hardly anyone sympathizes with them; for example, I see things like this on TVTropes:  "Hate Sink: Initially, the upper government in Marley is this. As more of the situation is revealed, they become far more nuanced, but the fact that they're basically the Nazis makes it difficult to really sympathize with them."



      I will say this, though:  Maybe the anime could do a better job with that?  That's an idea I'm open about.

      Did the story fail though? Falco is a hugely sympathetic character. Gabi hate seems to be going down with each passing chapter, Reiner is regarded as one of the best written characters in the series, Annie had a big fanbase from the beginning and so on. If anything, the story did a fine job.

      You say that Marley is basically Nazis, but are Floch and the Yeagerists any better? The ultra-nationalists who murder every single person that opposes them and their dream of an all-powerful Eldian Empire? The side of Paradis is not that much better. The only difference is that it's only now that they've got enough power to see their plans through. 

      Falco- definitely a truly sympathetic character, and frankly the only likable one in the entire Marley cast (nothing against his brother Colt but his character was rather unremarkable to say the least). I'm still convinced he is the true protagonist of the Marley arc since he is more interesting and compelling than Reiner could ever be. Would be nice to have an OVA showing how he came to be so compassionate while living in a Nazi regime.

      Gabi- you obviously don't browse YouTube or Reddit very much. The Gabi hate is still kicking even as she gets more "development", but even if it's not as much as before, she will never be a widely loved character.

      Reiner- I think we got enough of his whiny emo man-pain while on Paradis, so I can't say I cared for an entire arc of it.

      Annie- the reason she has fans is because most anime viewers see her physical qualities and make ecchi/hentai fanart. As for actual character arcs, Annie still has a decently-sized hatedom due to what she did to Squad Levi, and even now shows no remorse for it by saying if she had to do it all again she would, displaying her complete lack of character development.

      As for Floch and the Yeagerists...yeah, they actually are better. They are a product of the xenopbobia spewed by Marley. The Rumbling is a necessary evil for Paradis to survive, as Hanji is a traitorous coward who would rather betray her people to Marley and the world that wants to wipe them out. We've been with the Eldians side since the beginning hence why more people support them. If Isayama wanted us to "understand" or "empathize" both sides, he should have started the story with the war/political dialogue. But of course he didn't, so there really aren't many people who truly care about "the other side", no matter what Isayama says or does.

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    • Penguinluver1431
      Penguinluver1431 removed this reply because:
      Repeat of my previous one
      04:57, April 16, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I didn't say anything about sales or anything like that. I just go by fandom reaction. Before the serumbowl and basement reveal, most of the fandom agreed on the same things, good or bad. Once the story shifted towards a soapbox lecture on why "revenge is bad and we should forgive our enemies", the fandom was suddenly divided. Which is why it is not unreasonable to say the series goes through 'Seasonal rot' as of Marley arc, because that's where a large number of people lost interest until the SC came back, because it abandoned what defined the series in the first place: humanity against Titans. Survival of the fittest. If some people prefer the war story about why Nazis "are not evil, just misunderstood", then okay fine, but what defined the series more than the characters was the unique setting of mindless Titans that were the stuff of Lovecraftian horrors. Take that out and it's just like any other anime/manga falling into the same tropes and traps as other mangaka (such as Naruto's preferred brand of "everyone is redeemable"). It just isn't the same as the original story of survival against a mindless enemy. It's just not as good.

      I'm also saying this because if you think the manga version of Marley arc was divisive enough, then the anime version is gonna be a rough ride.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Drivebladesman wrote:
      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      The Marleyan side gets humanized, something important, considering where the story is right now.

      It's just too bad that the story failed to make it work, at least in most peoples' eyes, since it seems like hardly anyone sympathizes with them; for example, I see things like this on TVTropes:  "Hate Sink: Initially, the upper government in Marley is this. As more of the situation is revealed, they become far more nuanced, but the fact that they're basically the Nazis makes it difficult to really sympathize with them."


      I will say this, though:  Maybe the anime could do a better job with that?  That's an idea I'm open about.

      Did the story fail though? Falco is a hugely sympathetic character. Gabi hate seems to be going down with each passing chapter, Reiner is regarded as one of the best written characters in the series, Annie had a big fanbase from the beginning and so on. If anything, the story did a fine job.

      You say that Marley is basically Nazis, but are Floch and the Yeagerists any better? The ultra-nationalists who murder every single person that opposes them and their dream of an all-powerful Eldian Empire? The side of Paradis is not that much better. The only difference is that it's only now that they've got enough power to see their plans through. 

      Falco- definitely a truly sympathetic character, and frankly the only likable one in the entire Marley cast (nothing against his brother Colt but his character was rather unremarkable to say the least). I'm still convinced he is the true protagonist of the Marley arc since he is more interesting and compelling than Reiner could ever be. Would be nice to have an OVA showing how he came to be so compassionate while living in a Nazi regime.

      Gabi- you obviously don't browse YouTube or Reddit very much. The Gabi hate is still kicking even as she gets more "development", but even if it's not as much as before, she will never be a widely loved character.

      Reiner- I think we got enough of his whiny emo man-pain while on Paradis, so I can't say I cared for an entire arc of it.

      Annie- the reason she has fans is because most anime viewers see her physical qualities and make ecchi/hentai fanart. As for actual character arcs, Annie still has a decently-sized hatedom due to what she did to Squad Levi, and even now shows no remorse for it by saying if she had to do it all again she would, displaying her complete lack of character development.

      As for Floch and the Yeagerists...yeah, they actually are better. They are a product of the xenopbobia spewed by Marley. The Rumbling is a necessary evil for Paradis to survive, as Hanji is a traitorous coward who would rather betray her people to Marley and the world that wants to wipe them out. We've been with the Eldians side since the beginning hence why more people support them. If Isayama wanted us to "understand" or "empathize" both sides, he should have started the story with the war/political dialogue. But of course he didn't, so there really aren't many people who truly care about "the other side", no matter what Isayama says or does.

      Gabi is definitely getting way less hate nowdays. I attribute it to both her character development and the less focus on her. Compare the amount of hate posts dedicated to her now, to, let's say, a year ago. A significant decrease in quantity.

      Your lack of personal appreciation for Reiner is not a legitimate criticism, since it doesn't reflect any significant portion of the fandom. Reiner has quickly become one of the most popular characters of AoT, amongst the current cast. 

      Annie is not unlike Eren, who doesn't seem to regret his actions in Liberio, even though he knows how terrible they were. And she is also not unlike Mikasa in her motives. Her hatedom is not nearly as large as you're making it sound and the reasons you provided for her popularity are not the ones most people cite when asked why they like her. Most would say that her mysterious personality was what drew them to her. Annie's reappearence was also one of the most highly anticipated moments for years and she was one of the standout characters from season 1. 

      LOL. Floch and the Yeagerists are just as bad as the Marleyan brass. They are ultra-nationalists, they believe that they belong in a superior race, calling themselves "Subjects of Ymir", as if it's something to be proud of, they have mistreated the vast majority (if not everyone) of the people who have come to their aid over the years, they ideolize the absolute worst genocider in history. History shows that these kind of people make for shitty rulers, who wouldn't have any problem to turn on citizens and civilians if need be. You know, like the First King in a sense, but even worse. Not to mention that they are all incompetent as fuck. The only valuable members of the corps are the ones who now fight for humanity. They are the ones who didn't betray their ideals, nor what the SC stood for.

      Speaking of traitors, Floch also betrayed his branch and his superiors more than once. Yet the SC didn't execute him for disobeying their orders. While he has killed pretty much everyone who didn't obey him. I'm sure that he wouldn't hesitate if it came down to killing all the poor citizens who lost family members and their homes thanks to Eren's rumbling. Floch is literally the worst piece of shit to ever appear in the series, alongside King Reiss and the man who killed Grisha's sister. And that's really the general consensus of the fandom. Because i've yet to see a popularity poll with his name gracing the top spots. 

      The "traitorous" Hange that you speak of is the one who didn't betray what the SC used to stand for. The SC fought for humanity as a whole. And that's the people that the story followed.That was their mentality. Floch is the one who betrayed humanity for Eldia. Mikasa, Armin, Levi, Connie and Jean... These "traitors" are the people that the series has followed all this time. And they don't fight solely for Eldia, but for the whole world. The series didn't focus on Eldia and how good people the Eldians are, because they have commited heinous crimes and for far longer than Marley. This of course doesn't make Marley better, nor does it make her worse though. 

      Besides Eren, all the main characters of the series fight for the whole world. And the portion of the fandom that supports the Alliance is almost the same in numbers as the one that supports Eren. So, if anything, Isayama did a fine job showing us the other side. And honestly, Isayama doesn't care very much about what the fandom says either.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      I didn't say anything about sales or anything like that. I just go by fandom reaction. Before the serumbowl and basement reveal, most of the fandom agreed on the same things, good or bad. Once the story shifted towards a soapbox lecture on why "revenge is bad and we should forgive our enemies", the fandom was suddenly divided. Which is why it is not unreasonable to say the series goes through 'Seasonal rot' as of Marley arc, because that's where a large number of people lost interest until the SC came back, because it abandoned what defined the series in the first place: humanity against Titans. Survival of the fittest. If some people prefer the war story about why Nazis "are not evil, just misunderstood", then okay fine, but what defined the series more than the characters was the unique setting of mindless Titans that were the stuff of Lovecraftian horrors. Take that out and it's just like any other anime/manga falling into the same tropes and traps as other mangaka (such as Naruto's preferred brand of "everyone is redeemable"). It just isn't the same as the original story of survival against a mindless enemy. It's just not as good.

      I'm also saying this because if you think the manga version of Marley arc was divisive enough, then the anime version is gonna be a rough ride.

      Isayama WANTS the series to be divisive. That's what he is aiming for. Why is that you think this is something that he didn't expect? You are speaking about fandom reaction and you don't factor in sales, digital or physical and yet you think that you've presented evidence for the series's decline? Because from what i've seen is that you personally didn't like the genre shift and that somehow this works against the series. Well, i've got news for you, that's exactly what Isayma wanted. And it's also the reason why up to chapter 123  (according to reddit at least) the series had reached it's "peak" in quality. If anything, your disapproval of the series's direction, is a personal matter and not a problem for the vast majority of the community. So, as i said, the anime has no reason to reduce the content of the series.

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    • Isayama WANTS the series to be divisive. That's what he is aiming for. Why is that you think this is something that he didn't expect? You are speaking about fandom reaction and you don't factor in sales, digital or physical and yet you think that you've presented evidence for the series's decline? Because from what i've seen is that you personally didn't like the genre shift and that somehow this works against the series. Well, i've got news for you, that's exactly what Isayma wanted. And it's also the reason why up to chapter 123  (according to reddit at least) the series had reached it's "peak" in quality. If anything, your disapproval of the series's direction, is a personal matter and not a problem for the vast majority of the community. So, as i said, the anime has no reason to reduce the content of the series.

      My opinions are not as unpopular as you believe them to be, particularly if you browse TV Tropes. Marley being a Hate Sink isn't the only common thought among the fandom:

      "Base Breaking Character: Hange Zoe as of the final arc; some fans believe her "No-Genocide-Under-Any-Circumstances" stance and her willingness to make an alliance with Marley and the Warriors shows she is the face of bringing peace between Eldia and the world. Many more fans believe Hanji is a hypocrite and a traitor for condemning her own people to die in order to save the people of the world, which had been responsible for the suffering of Eldians.

      Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Gabi is meant to represent the viewpoint of Eldians living in Marley, and is initially presented as a naive but ambitious military cadet who cares a lot for Reiner, who is her older cousin. However, as the arc progresses, Gabi grows increasingly unlikable due to her treatment of Falco and her buying more and more into Marley's anti-Eldian propaganda. Fans' dislike towards her has reached a peak when she is directly responsible for Sasha's death, and even to this day is regarded as one of the series' most hated characters.

      Unintentionally Unsympathetic (2): Annie shares her true family backstory with Hitch during their horse ride during 125, revealing she was born to a Marleyan woman and an Eldian man, but abandoned her and was subsequently adopted and trained by Mr. Leonhardt. It could have worked to make her more sympathetic in the eyes of fans who only view her as a sadistic monster...had she not stated that if she had to kill everyone she had killed all over again to get back to her father, she absolutely would, thus negating any sympathy for Annie's actions.

      Rooting for the Empire: No matter how many lines he crosses, Eren still has fans who support him. This is partly because, horrible as his end goal is, the outside world did play a part in provoking it with Marley's repeated attempts to genocide Paradis and partly because he just does it with such grace that it's hard not to be impressed.

      Replacement Scrappy: Sasha fans and Gabi haters alike labeled Gabi Braun as one after they were paralleled with each other after she saved Kaya from a Titanized Nile. Not that Gabi was overly popular beforehand, but the way she was framed as being similar to Kaya's sister figure was particularly insulting towards a lot of fans.

      Take That, Scrappy!: Many fans take pleasure in the Trauma Conga Line Gabi is being forced through in Paradis as her pro-Marley ideals are continually tested and broken by the people around her who are not afraid to call out her behavior. For those who despise her for having killed Sasha, the brutal reality check she receives in chapter 111 when she is outed for this is especially satisfying.

      Narm: Additionally in 126, the Avengers-style team-up at the end, meant to signify a hopeful union of two enemy nations, was quick to be mocked due to how cheesy it felt, how rushed it seemed, or that some fans still have not forgiven the Warriors for their horrendous crimes.

      Never Live It Down: Both in-universe and out-of-universe, Gabi will probably forever be remembered for one thing and one thing only; killing Sasha.

      They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: Shortly after the Marley arc began taking the series in a more sociopolitical direction rather than survival horror, several fans believed it ruined what had made the series great to begin with, which had continued into the final arc up until Zeke used his spinal fluid to turn several people into Titans, thus reincorporating them into the story."

      I normally hate excessive copy and paste like that, but since you seem to believe "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, I figured I'd present some 'alternative facts', for lack of a better phrase, and believe me, TVTropes would remove them if they were either untrue or if it was not a common enough thought among the fandom.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Isayama WANTS the series to be divisive. That's what he is aiming for. Why is that you think this is something that he didn't expect? You are speaking about fandom reaction and you don't factor in sales, digital or physical and yet you think that you've presented evidence for the series's decline? Because from what i've seen is that you personally didn't like the genre shift and that somehow this works against the series. Well, i've got news for you, that's exactly what Isayma wanted. And it's also the reason why up to chapter 123  (according to reddit at least) the series had reached it's "peak" in quality. If anything, your disapproval of the series's direction, is a personal matter and not a problem for the vast majority of the community. So, as i said, the anime has no reason to reduce the content of the series.

      My opinions are not as unpopular as you believe them to be, particularly if you browse TV Tropes. Marley being a Hate Sink isn't the only common thought among the fandom:

      "Base Breaking Character: Hange Zoe as of the final arc; some fans believe her "No-Genocide-Under-Any-Circumstances" stance and her willingness to make an alliance with Marley and the Warriors shows she is the face of bringing peace between Eldia and the world. Many more fans believe Hanji is a hypocrite and a traitor for condemning her own people to die in order to save the people of the world, which had been responsible for the suffering of Eldians.

      Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Gabi is meant to represent the viewpoint of Eldians living in Marley, and is initially presented as a naive but ambitious military cadet who cares a lot for Reiner, who is her older cousin. However, as the arc progresses, Gabi grows increasingly unlikable due to her treatment of Falco and her buying more and more into Marley's anti-Eldian propaganda. Fans' dislike towards her has reached a peak when she is directly responsible for Sasha's death, and even to this day is regarded as one of the series' most hated characters.

      Unintentionally Unsympathetic (2): Annie shares her true family backstory with Hitch during their horse ride during 125, revealing she was born to a Marleyan woman and an Eldian man, but abandoned her and was subsequently adopted and trained by Mr. Leonhardt. It could have worked to make her more sympathetic in the eyes of fans who only view her as a sadistic monster...had she not stated that if she had to kill everyone she had killed all over again to get back to her father, she absolutely would, thus negating any sympathy for Annie's actions.

      Rooting for the Empire: No matter how many lines he crosses, Eren still has fans who support him. This is partly because, horrible as his end goal is, the outside world did play a part in provoking it with Marley's repeated attempts to genocide Paradis and partly because he just does it with such grace that it's hard not to be impressed.

      Replacement Scrappy: Sasha fans and Gabi haters alike labeled Gabi Braun as one after they were paralleled with each other after she saved Kaya from a Titanized Nile. Not that Gabi was overly popular beforehand, but the way she was framed as being similar to Kaya's sister figure was particularly insulting towards a lot of fans.

      Take That, Scrappy!: Many fans take pleasure in the Trauma Conga Line Gabi is being forced through in Paradis as her pro-Marley ideals are continually tested and broken by the people around her who are not afraid to call out her behavior. For those who despise her for having killed Sasha, the brutal reality check she receives in chapter 111 when she is outed for this is especially satisfying.

      Narm: Additionally in 126, the Avengers-style team-up at the end, meant to signify a hopeful union of two enemy nations, was quick to be mocked due to how cheesy it felt, how rushed it seemed, or that some fans still have not forgiven the Warriors for their horrendous crimes.

      Never Live It Down: Both in-universe and out-of-universe, Gabi will probably forever be remembered for one thing and one thing only; killing Sasha.

      They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: Shortly after the Marley arc began taking the series in a more sociopolitical direction rather than survival horror, several fans believed it ruined what had made the series great to begin with, which had continued into the final arc up until Zeke used his spinal fluid to turn several people into Titans, thus reincorporating them into the story."

      I normally hate excessive copy and paste like that, but since you seem to believe "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, I figured I'd present some 'alternative facts', for lack of a better phrase, and believe me, TVTropes would remove them if they were either untrue or if it was not a common enough thought among the fandom.

      No they wouldn’t. Tv tropes puts up stuff like that all the time so long as they think it carries enough of a voice to be heard of you did any looking into it. But they also know it it in no way encompasses the whole fandom which is something they constantly need to retirate to some tropers who think otherwise.

      Furthermore I don’t think there stance was ever warriors good Eldia bad just because they don’t want them dying especially since the warriors ARE Eldians afterall.

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    • @Penguinluver1431

      If Eren just wanted to demolish Marley which is the country from which all the misfortunes occurred for the Eldians of Paradise. In this case, I think many more people in the fandom would have validated its action. The problem is that Eren wants to crush with the colossal titans also countries completely peaceful for Eldia like that of Azumabito or Onya-Kopon. What he does is totally unfair and you cannot be approved.

      Also, I think the people who are very angry with Levy, Hanji and Armin are because they got together with Reiner and Annie and not because they want to arrest Eren. I am wrong ?

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    • No they wouldn’t. Tv tropes puts up stuff like that all the time so long as they think it carries enough of a voice to be heard of you did any looking into it. But they also know it it in no way encompasses the whole fandom which is something they constantly need to retirate to some tropers who think otherwise.

      Furthermore I don’t think there stance was ever warriors good Eldia bad just because they don’t want them dying especially since the warriors ARE Eldians afterall.

      TVTropes does, in fact, delete or edit stuff that is not factual or not a common consensus in a fandom, especially if it's not considered YMMV. I should have clarified that's where my copy and pastes came from, just to illustrate that not everbody approves or enjoys the current direction of the story and characters. But the Cringevengers alliance does seem to imply "Warriors good, Eldia bad" since this chapter was basically Annie and Reiner criticizing the 104th for not wanting to harm their own.

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote:
      @Penguinluver1431

      If Eren just wanted to demolish Marley which is the country from which all the misfortunes occurred for the Eldians of Paradise. In this case, I think many more people in the fandom would have validated its action. The problem is that Eren wants to crush with the colossal titans also countries completely peaceful for Eldia like that of Azumabito or Onya-Kopon. What he does is totally unfair and you cannot be approved.

      Also, I think the people who are very angry with Levy, Hanji and Armin are because they got together with Reiner and Annie and not because they want to arrest Eren. I am wrong ?

      Well if what we are told is true, and other nations of the world do treat Eldians worse than Marley, then it would completely justify Eren's extremism, if only to prevent them from coming near their island again.

      And yes, I do agree that the anti-alliance criticisms are because it's a team-up with the Warriors and not because they are anti-Eren. That's what I was saying these past couple months was so wrong about the alliance and why it should not succeed.

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    • This is more unfair but more counterproductive. If Eren erases the coalition forces and also Marley and then brings back the titans to reform the wall. Other nations weaker than Mahr will be traumatized and Elldia will be able to intimidate them to plunder their resource and technology. Whereas if this guy demolishes everyone then Eldia will have a whole world to rebuild.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      No they wouldn’t. Tv tropes puts up stuff like that all the time so long as they think it carries enough of a voice to be heard of you did any looking into it. But they also know it it in no way encompasses the whole fandom which is something they constantly need to retirate to some tropers who think otherwise.

      Furthermore I don’t think there stance was ever warriors good Eldia bad just because they don’t want them dying especially since the warriors ARE Eldians afterall.

      TVTropes does, in fact, delete or edit stuff that is not factual or not a common consensus in a fandom, especially if it's not considered YMMV. I should have clarified that's where my copy and pastes came from, just to illustrate that not everbody approves or enjoys the current direction of the story and characters. But the Cringevengers alliance does seem to imply "Warriors good, Eldia bad" since this chapter was basically Annie and Reiner criticizing the 104th for not wanting to harm their own.

      I know...I’m on tv tropes. Stuff like that gets debated all the time hell sometime in a matter of months pages look vastly different cause a lot of stuff has been edited after lengthy debates of what should and shouldn’t stay or count.

      And the alliance doesn’t imply that just because the warriors make a point or two that there always in the right. It’s a pretty shorty team up otherwise, Reiner has no objections to getting the shit kicked out of him by Jean so clearly he doesn’t see it that way.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Mutsu Goro wrote:
      @Penguinluver1431

      If Eren just wanted to demolish Marley which is the country from which all the misfortunes occurred for the Eldians of Paradise. In this case, I think many more people in the fandom would have validated its action. The problem is that Eren wants to crush with the colossal titans also countries completely peaceful for Eldia like that of Azumabito or Onya-Kopon. What he does is totally unfair and you cannot be approved.

      Also, I think the people who are very angry with Levy, Hanji and Armin are because they got together with Reiner and Annie and not because they want to arrest Eren. I am wrong ?

      Well if what we are told is true, and other nations of the world do treat Eldians worse than Marley, then it would completely justify Eren's extremism, if only to prevent them from coming near their island again.

      And yes, I do agree that the anti-alliance criticisms are because it's a team-up with the Warriors and not because they are anti-Eren. That's what I was saying these past couple months was so wrong about the alliance and why it should not succeed.

      Why does he also want to destroy their Heazul allies? Even Floch understood that it is better to intimidate others than to break them all. If he had had the founder he would have carried out the operation more intelligently than Eren.

      On the subject of alliance it is very dangerous to have associated Magath because it is an ambitious who is ready to sacrifice the inhabitants of Paradise to be a hero. By leaving the Marley warriors at his command, he could have them eliminate the 104E and make them eat Armin to recover the collosal. He can tell them that Armin doesn't want to kill Eren Jaeger. In a case like this Armin is only guaranteed to have Falco warrior with him.

      Nevertheless, given the progress of the titans in the last episode I think that Marley will not be saved in time and that even saved it will be nothing. All the towns in the northwest are razed to the ground. I think Magath realized it and gave up on it and abandoned his plans. He sincerely apologized because he really lost.

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    • I normally hate excessive copy and paste like that, but since you seem to believe "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, I figured I'd present some 'alternative facts', for lack of a better phrase, and believe me, TVTropes would remove them if they were either untrue or if it was not a common enough thought among the fandom.

      If you think that i believe that "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, then you've clearly not paid attention to what i've been writing. I'm saying that both of them are the same. The exact same. Lastly, as far as i know, the consensus of the fandom isn't that "Marley arc will be devisive, let's scrap 30% of it's contents and make it 6 episodes".

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    • @ Penguinluver1431

      Why do you hate Gabi, Reiner and Annie? Is it because of the work they wanted to do or because they killed heroes?

      - Reiner & Annie has Marco killed

      - Annie alone killed Petra

      - Gabi killed Sasha

      For example, if Gabi had only killed General Lobov and had not killed Sasha in Liberio, would you hate her as much? ?

      I note that:

      Hanji has shot the 4 Jeageristes who chased her behind the back and she brags about it.

      Samuel did not shoot Conny while he was holding him with his weapon but only Armin who can regenerate while Conny shot him brutally at point blank while he was disarmed.

      As they are not kids in all logic they must have been much less excusable than Gabi and especially the major, right?

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote:
      @ Penguinluver1431

      Why do you hate Gabi, Reiner and Annie? Is it because of the work they wanted to do or because they killed heroes? - Reiner & Annie has Marco killed

      - Annie alone killed Petra - Gabi killed Sasha

      For example, if Gabi had only killed General Lobov and had not killed Sasha in Liberio, would you hate her as much? ?

      I note that:

      Hanji sneakily shot 4 Jegaristes in the back chasing her and seems proud of them.

      Samuel did not shoot Conny while he was holding him with his weapon but only Armin who can regenerate while Conny shot him brutally at point blank while he was disarmed.

      As they are not kids in all logic they must have been much less excusable than Gabi and especially the major, right?

      For Gabi, I hated her even before she killed Sasha because she was a cheap copy of the MC, minus likably qualities. Killing Sasha was just what made me want to watch Gabi die.

      Kind of the same for Reiner and Annie (and Bertolt, but he's already dead) once they were revealed to be Titan shifters. When Annie was revelaed to be the Female Titan that killed Squad Levi, I hated her. When Reiner and Bertolt were revealed to be the ones that killed hundreds of thousands of people in their FIRST scene, I hated them.

      And even though I support the Yeagerists over Hanji, the ones she killed were nameless nobodies meant to be fodder, so I didn't take it personally. 

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      I normally hate excessive copy and paste like that, but since you seem to believe "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, I figured I'd present some 'alternative facts', for lack of a better phrase, and believe me, TVTropes would remove them if they were either untrue or if it was not a common enough thought among the fandom.

      If you think that i believe that "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, then you've clearly not paid attention to what i've been writing. I'm saying that both of them are the same. The exact same. Lastly, as far as i know, the consensus of the fandom isn't that "Marley arc will be devisive, let's scrap 30% of it's contents and make it 6 episodes".

      It wouldn't be unheard of for this series though, since they cut out certain things from the Warrior's side that detracted from the SC's development. 

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      I normally hate excessive copy and paste like that, but since you seem to believe "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, I figured I'd present some 'alternative facts', for lack of a better phrase, and believe me, TVTropes would remove them if they were either untrue or if it was not a common enough thought among the fandom.

      If you think that i believe that "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, then you've clearly not paid attention to what i've been writing. I'm saying that both of them are the same. The exact same. Lastly, as far as i know, the consensus of the fandom isn't that "Marley arc will be devisive, let's scrap 30% of it's contents and make it 6 episodes".
      It wouldn't be unheard of for this series though, since they cut out certain things from the Warrior's side that detracted from the SC's development. 

      Not only would it be unheard of, it would also be dumb and a bad move storytelling-wise. It won't happen.

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote: @ Penguinluver1431

      Why do you hate Gabi, Reiner and Annie? Is it because of the work they wanted to do or because they killed heroes?

      - Reiner & Annie has Marco killed

      - Annie alone killed Petra

      - Gabi killed Sasha

      For example, if Gabi had only killed General Lobov and had not killed Sasha in Liberio, would you hate her as much? ?

      I note that:

      Hanji sneakily shot 4 Jegaristes in the back chasing her and seems proud of them.

      Samuel did not shoot Conny while he was holding him with his weapon but only Armin who can regenerate while Conny shot him brutally at point blank while he was disarmed.

      As they are not kids in all logic they must have been much less excusable than Gabi and especially the major, right?

      What do you mean Hanji seems proud of them ?

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      Isayama WANTS the series to be divisive. That's what he is aiming for. Why is that you think this is something that he didn't expect? You are speaking about fandom reaction and you don't factor in sales, digital or physical and yet you think that you've presented evidence for the series's decline? Because from what i've seen is that you personally didn't like the genre shift and that somehow this works against the series. Well, i've got news for you, that's exactly what Isayma wanted. And it's also the reason why up to chapter 123  (according to reddit at least) the series had reached it's "peak" in quality. If anything, your disapproval of the series's direction, is a personal matter and not a problem for the vast majority of the community. So, as i said, the anime has no reason to reduce the content of the series.

      My opinions are not as unpopular as you believe them to be, particularly if you browse TV Tropes. Marley being a Hate Sink isn't the only common thought among the fandom:

      "Base Breaking Character: Hange Zoe as of the final arc; some fans believe her "No-Genocide-Under-Any-Circumstances" stance and her willingness to make an alliance with Marley and the Warriors shows she is the face of bringing peace between Eldia and the world. Many more fans believe Hanji is a hypocrite and a traitor for condemning her own people to die in order to save the people of the world, which had been responsible for the suffering of Eldians.

      Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Gabi is meant to represent the viewpoint of Eldians living in Marley, and is initially presented as a naive but ambitious military cadet who cares a lot for Reiner, who is her older cousin. However, as the arc progresses, Gabi grows increasingly unlikable due to her treatment of Falco and her buying more and more into Marley's anti-Eldian propaganda. Fans' dislike towards her has reached a peak when she is directly responsible for Sasha's death, and even to this day is regarded as one of the series' most hated characters.

      Unintentionally Unsympathetic (2): Annie shares her true family backstory with Hitch during their horse ride during 125, revealing she was born to a Marleyan woman and an Eldian man, but abandoned her and was subsequently adopted and trained by Mr. Leonhardt. It could have worked to make her more sympathetic in the eyes of fans who only view her as a sadistic monster...had she not stated that if she had to kill everyone she had killed all over again to get back to her father, she absolutely would, thus negating any sympathy for Annie's actions.

      Rooting for the Empire: No matter how many lines he crosses, Eren still has fans who support him. This is partly because, horrible as his end goal is, the outside world did play a part in provoking it with Marley's repeated attempts to genocide Paradis and partly because he just does it with such grace that it's hard not to be impressed.

      Replacement Scrappy: Sasha fans and Gabi haters alike labeled Gabi Braun as one after they were paralleled with each other after she saved Kaya from a Titanized Nile. Not that Gabi was overly popular beforehand, but the way she was framed as being similar to Kaya's sister figure was particularly insulting towards a lot of fans.

      Take That, Scrappy!: Many fans take pleasure in the Trauma Conga Line Gabi is being forced through in Paradis as her pro-Marley ideals are continually tested and broken by the people around her who are not afraid to call out her behavior. For those who despise her for having killed Sasha, the brutal reality check she receives in chapter 111 when she is outed for this is especially satisfying.

      Narm: Additionally in 126, the Avengers-style team-up at the end, meant to signify a hopeful union of two enemy nations, was quick to be mocked due to how cheesy it felt, how rushed it seemed, or that some fans still have not forgiven the Warriors for their horrendous crimes.

      Never Live It Down: Both in-universe and out-of-universe, Gabi will probably forever be remembered for one thing and one thing only; killing Sasha.

      They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: Shortly after the Marley arc began taking the series in a more sociopolitical direction rather than survival horror, several fans believed it ruined what had made the series great to begin with, which had continued into the final arc up until Zeke used his spinal fluid to turn several people into Titans, thus reincorporating them into the story."

      I normally hate excessive copy and paste like that, but since you seem to believe "Warriors good, Eldia bad" is the consensus of the fandom, I figured I'd present some 'alternative facts', for lack of a better phrase, and believe me, TVTropes would remove them if they were either untrue or if it was not a common enough thought among the fandom.

      I never trusted TVTROPES because not only its a cesspool because "TOO MANY TROPES" but also TVTROPES seems to be only handled and edit by a select few people who there are times who don't portray examples well at times and make mistakes. Also seriously you are taking facts from TVTropes now?

      P.s. Also what is a "YMMV"?

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    • As divise as this series has become but Isayama expects everyone to question the series as a whole and look it with a open-mind. Some of you people are not looking at this with open minds and looking at this one-sided and based things on favouritism.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      P.s. Also what is a "YMMV"?

      Your mileage may Vary. It’s where you put tropes that aren’t definite facts. For example the scrappy cause even a lot of generally hated characters have more then a few fans and a scrappy is supposed to be universally disliked. Or base breaking characters cause again just what side of the spectrum they are on and how likable or not they are varied from person to person.
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    • Tdfern14
      Tdfern14 removed this reply because:
      Error
      17:41, April 22, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:


      P.s. Also what is a "YMMV"?

      Your mileage may Vary. It’s where you put tropes that aren’t definite facts. For example the scrappy cause even a lot of generally hated characters have more then a few fans and a scrappy is supposed to be universally disliked. Or base breaking characters cause again just what side of the spectrum they are on and how likable or not they are varied from person to person.


      Like for example a scrappy character isn't always universally hated.
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    • Tdfern14 wrote:
      As divise as this series has become but Isayama expects everyone to question the series as a whole and look it with a open-mind. Some of you people are not looking at this with open minds and looking at this one-sided and based things on favouritism.

      I'm not particularly inclined to be open to "both sides" when one (Marley) is a Nazi regime and the other (Eldia) are the metaphoroical jews. It should NOT be a hard choice which side history favors.

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      As divise as this series has become but Isayama expects everyone to question the series as a whole and look it with a open-mind. Some of you people are not looking at this with open minds and looking at this one-sided and based things on favouritism.
      I'm not particularly inclined to be open to "both sides" when one (Marley) is a Nazi regime and the other (Eldia) are the metaphoroical jews. It should NOT be a hard choice which side history favors.

      It's more like Roman vs Greek.  Eldia is far more Nazi-like than Marley is.  And if anything the Ackermans would be the Jews of the story since they were persecuted in Paradis due to them being immune to the King's Titan

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    • EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      As divise as this series has become but Isayama expects everyone to question the series as a whole and look it with a open-mind. Some of you people are not looking at this with open minds and looking at this one-sided and based things on favouritism.
      I'm not particularly inclined to be open to "both sides" when one (Marley) is a Nazi regime and the other (Eldia) are the metaphoroical jews. It should NOT be a hard choice which side history favors.
      It's more like Roman vs Greek.  Eldia is far more Nazi-like than Marley is.  And if anything the Ackermans would be the Jews of the story since they were persecuted in Paradis due to them being immune to the King's Titan

      True enough about the Ackermans, but if Isayama really wanted us to view this as a "both sides are grey", he should have started with that narrative. Having the Warriors suddenly not be evil was really appalling and disappointing that they're suddenly being given royal treatment while the SC are reduced to "the bad guys"

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    • Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      As divise as this series has become but Isayama expects everyone to question the series as a whole and look it with a open-mind. Some of you people are not looking at this with open minds and looking at this one-sided and based things on favouritism.
      I'm not particularly inclined to be open to "both sides" when one (Marley) is a Nazi regime and the other (Eldia) are the metaphoroical jews. It should NOT be a hard choice which side history favors.
      It's more like Roman vs Greek.  Eldia is far more Nazi-like than Marley is.  And if anything the Ackermans would be the Jews of the story since they were persecuted in Paradis due to them being immune to the King's Titan

      True enough about the Ackermans, but if Isayama really wanted us to view this as a "both sides are grey", he should have started with that narrative. Having the Warriors suddenly not be evil was really appalling and disappointing that they're suddenly being given royal treatment while the SC are reduced to "the bad guys"

      But the SC aren’t reduced to the bad guys there trying to stop a genocide of everyone not on the island including places like Hiruzem who haven’t harmed them and the Eldians Eren’s abandoning who Eren even admits are just people brainwashed by Marley propaganda. On top of that the Warriors are literally just people in war. It’s not like the author made them mustache twirling psychos who relished in what they did. Especially with the Reiner and Bertolt reveal we are shown them agonizing over there situation and how it effects there psyche, so clearly we’re not supposed to think there’s nothing more to them. We were always told they had a home to get back to and clearly we were going to learn more about that place in time.

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    • Jayrob95 wrote:

      Penguinluver1431 wrote:

      EthanPHX wrote:
      Penguinluver1431 wrote:
      Tdfern14 wrote:
      As divise as this series has become but Isayama expects everyone to question the series as a whole and look it with a open-mind. Some of you people are not looking at this with open minds and looking at this one-sided and based things on favouritism.
      I'm not particularly inclined to be open to "both sides" when one (Marley) is a Nazi regime and the other (Eldia) are the metaphoroical jews. It should NOT be a hard choice which side history favors.
      It's more like Roman vs Greek.  Eldia is far more Nazi-like than Marley is.  And if anything the Ackermans would be the Jews of the story since they were persecuted in Paradis due to them being immune to the King's Titan

      True enough about the Ackermans, but if Isayama really wanted us to view this as a "both sides are grey", he should have started with that narrative. Having the Warriors suddenly not be evil was really appalling and disappointing that they're suddenly being given royal treatment while the SC are reduced to "the bad guys"

      everyone not on the island including places like Hiruzem who haven’t harmed

      This is what I wrote previously and this is the last proof that the total GT is completely absurd. During the 2nd war the US did not need to atomize all the countries of the world including their allies to impose peace.

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    • @ Penguinluver1431

      Marley closely resembles the Ottoman Empire, which recruited Yugoslav children into the army who became elite soldiers. It's obvious : Eldian warriors of Mahr = janissaries

      The policy among the Hitler Nazis is the same as that of Eren stupidly exterminating everything that is foreign to him so that his only one is the world for him.

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote:
      @ Penguinluver1431

      Marley closely resembles the Ottoman Empire, which recruited Yugoslav children into the army who became elite soldiers. It's obvious : Eldian warriors of Mahr = janissaries

      The policy among the Hitler Nazis is the same as that of Eren stupidly exterminating everything that is foreign to him so that his only one is the world for him.

      Hitler's reasoning for the genocide was quite different to that of Eren's though. Along with the pre-existing hatred against the Jews and the Roma, a big reason for the slaughters against the first was the fact that they were in possesion of big factories that he needed. Presenting them as devils was just a tool to get the commonfolk to agree with him more easily.

      Eren's reasoning is far more simple. He still views things as "it's either us or they".

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Mutsu Goro wrote:
      @ Penguinluver1431

      Marley closely resembles the Ottoman Empire, which recruited Yugoslav children into the army who became elite soldiers. It's obvious : Eldian warriors of Mahr = janissaries

      The policy among the Hitler Nazis is the same as that of Eren stupidly exterminating everything that is foreign to him so that his only one is the world for him.

      Hitler's reasoning for the genocide was quite different to that of Eren's though. Along with the pre-existing hatred against the Jews and the Roma, a big reason for the slaughters against the first was the fact that they were in possesion of big factories that he needed. Presenting them as devils was just a tool to get the commonfolk to agree with him more easily.

      Eren's reasoning is far more simple. He still views things as "it's either us or they".

      Indeed, the initial motivation is a little different but the reasoning and the action which follows from it are the same:

      "People from other peoples or ethnicities pose problems for us !!! It's great, we are going to exterminate all of them and even those on the other side of the planet who have nothing to do with all this."

      Unfortunately that for the moment the Israelis do not have the same stupid reasoning as Eren otherwise there would only be the Eskimos on our planet.

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote: @ Penguinluver1431

      Marley closely resembles the Ottoman Empire, which recruited Yugoslav children into the army who became elite soldiers. It's obvious : Eldian warriors of Mahr = janissaries

      The policy among the Hitler Nazis is the same as that of Eren stupidly exterminating everything that is foreign to him so that his only one is the world for him.

      Well I didn't know that about the Yugoslav part. Nice info. Although in the 1910s Ottoman Empire (which is now present-day Turkey), under The Young Turks government, led by The Three Pashas, try to commit genocide against the Armenian people inside the Ottoman Empire, also including Greeks and Assyrians. All during World War I. Which would inspire Hitler and the Nazi party to commit a genocide and thinking they could get away with it like the Turks. "Who remembers the Armenians" paraphrased here by Hitler.

      Similarly to Japan how they deny the atrocities of the Sino-Japanese War in the 1930s, Turkey to this day, doesn't recognize the genocide or acknowledges the crime after 100 years.

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    • Tdfern14 wrote:

      Mutsu Goro wrote: @ Penguinluver1431

      Marley closely resembles the Ottoman Empire, which recruited Yugoslav children into the army who became elite soldiers. It's obvious : Eldian warriors of Mahr = janissaries

      The policy among the Hitler Nazis is the same as that of Eren stupidly exterminating everything that is foreign to him so that his only one is the world for him.

      Well I didn't know that about the Yugoslav part. Nice info. Although in the 1910s Ottoman Empire (which is now present-day Turkey), under The Young Turks government, led by The Three Pashas, try to commit genocide against the Armenian people inside the Ottoman Empire, also including Greeks and Assyrians. All during World War I. Which would inspire Hitler and the Nazi party to commit a genocide and thinking they could get away with it like the Turks. "Who remembers the Armenians" paraphrased here by Hitler.

      Similarly to Japan how they deny the atrocities of the Sino-Japanese War in the 1930s, Turkey to this day, doesn't recognize the genocide or acknowledges the crime after 100 years.

      We are less well informed about the Armenian massacre than the Holocaust because historians have difficulty collecting archives. As far as I have actually heard, it is a young ultra-nationalist officer by the name of Ismail Enver who wanted to shoot down by reducing other ethnic groups. To contain this ambitious the Sultan appointed him Minister of War and let him implement his plan. He had thousands of Armenians deported Armenians to the desert where they died of thirst. The name of this sad individual has remained politically taboo in Turkey.

      I wonder. Is that when the Titan warriors became useless to Marley compared to the technology of foreign armies Marley would have done the same to the Eldians living in Mahr as the Ottomans to the Armenians. Magath had known his crimes for a long time but was too ambitious and saw him as the new HELOS. I think he would have been able to be recognized by his people and you?

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    • @Penguinluver1431

      On seeing a total GT I could never agree with everything I have expressed in the comments before.

      That said, I can concede to you that I don't like the course of the rescue either.

      First, it would have been better if Armin had found a plan to go find Eren and confront him with Mikasa who would have excluded the Marley warriors. It is very dangerous because they could try to recover the collosale especially since Reiner and Annie know that Armin loves too much Eren to want to kill him. As for Magath, has he really given up on his ambitions? I think so, but I'm not sure.

      Afterwards, I don't like the parallel between Bertholt and Conny & Armin either. I agree that it should get your hands dirty. Only Bertholt did more than his duty. He just had to capture the bearer of the original but not exterminate its inhabitants as he said he wanted to do. If someone's attitude is to be compared to Bertholt it's really Eren even if what Conny did to Samuel is a very cowardly murder worthy of Bertholt.

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    • Trying to recover the colossus would be an insane idea. Even if they were successful, it would only reduce the number of shifters available to fight Eren and the Yaegerists (since one warrior would be holding two titans).

      Also Armin is more than capable of defending himself and killing anyone who tries to eat him. It's a counterproductive plan that only makes things worse whether it succeeds or not.

        Loading editor
    • TKGriffiths wrote: Trying to recover the colossus would be an insane idea. Even if they were successful, it would only reduce the number of shifters available to fight Eren and the Yaegerists (since one warrior would be holding two titans).

      Also Armin is more than capable of defending himself and killing anyone who tries to eat him. It's a counterproductive plan that only makes things worse whether it succeeds or not.

      It is sure that it could put the mess and make everything fail. After the fear of losing their families might be powerful enough to take this risk. Annie in chapter 127 did not hide the possibility that they would turn against Armin and Mikasa if the latter opposed the idea of killing Eren. They would certainly be one less, but the collosale is the only titan to weigh a bit against the founding titan and against his army, isn't it?

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote:

      Tdfern14 wrote:

      Mutsu Goro wrote: @ Penguinluver1431

      Marley closely resembles the Ottoman Empire, which recruited Yugoslav children into the army who became elite soldiers. It's obvious : Eldian warriors of Mahr = janissaries

      The policy among the Hitler Nazis is the same as that of Eren stupidly exterminating everything that is foreign to him so that his only one is the world for him.

      Well I didn't know that about the Yugoslav part. Nice info. Although in the 1910s Ottoman Empire (which is now present-day Turkey), under The Young Turks government, led by The Three Pashas, try to commit genocide against the Armenian people inside the Ottoman Empire, also including Greeks and Assyrians. All during World War I. Which would inspire Hitler and the Nazi party to commit a genocide and thinking they could get away with it like the Turks. "Who remembers the Armenians" paraphrased here by Hitler.

      Similarly to Japan how they deny the atrocities of the Sino-Japanese War in the 1930s, Turkey to this day, doesn't recognize the genocide or acknowledges the crime after 100 years.

      We are less well informed about the Armenian massacre than the Holocaust because historians have difficulty collecting archives. As far as I have actually heard, it is a young ultra-nationalist officer by the name of Ismail Enver who wanted to shoot down by reducing other ethnic groups. To contain this ambitious the Sultan appointed him Minister of War and let him implement his plan. He had thousands of Armenians deported Armenians to the desert where they died of thirst. The name of this sad individual has remained politically taboo in Turkey.

      I wonder. Is that when the Titan warriors became useless to Marley compared to the technology of foreign armies Marley would have done the same to the Eldians living in Mahr as the Ottomans to the Armenians. Magath had known his crimes for a long time but was too ambitious and saw him as the new HELOS. I think he would have been able to be recognized by his people and you?

      How the hell are you less informed about the Armenian genocide?

      How was Magath too ambitious, because he never showed any desire for power or for change ?

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    • Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation about war attrocities throughout history. Some governments make up stuff as propaganda, & many to this day believe China & Korea probably exaggerated the actions of the Japanese during the 1930s & early 40s. The fact of the matter is it's too easy for those with influence to twist the truth.

      As for Attack on Titan why does this season need to be 26 episodes? Season 3 was only 12 episodes, why can't we have a final season that's 34 episodes? I personally have hopes that the content from the Marley Arc covers at least 10 full episodes. That the content from Volumes 27-30 covers at least another 10 full episodes.

      I don't want another rushed arc in the anime & I also don't want the ending of the series to feel rushed. If this final season needs to be 30 episodes to cover everything from Volumes 23-33 then it should have those episodes. If we get a Volume 34 then I'm sure it can be extended to 32-33 episodes in length. Because of Corona Virus it should be obvious that we probably won't be getting the final chapter this year.

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    • WaterKirby1994 wrote: Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation about war attrocities throughout history. Some governments make up stuff as propaganda, & many to this day believe China & Korea probably exaggerated the actions of the Japanese during the 1930s & early 40s. The fact of the matter is it's too easy for those with influence to twist the truth.

      As for Attack on Titan why does this season need to be 26 episodes? Season 3 was only 12 episodes, why can't we have a final season that's 34 episodes? I personally have hopes that the content from the Marley Arc covers at least 10 full episodes. That the content from Volumes 27-30 covers at least another 10 full episodes.

      I don't want another rushed arc in the anime & I also don't want the ending of the series to feel rushed. If this final season needs to be 30 episodes to cover everything from Volumes 23-33 then it should have those episodes. If we get a Volume 34 then I'm sure it can be extended to 32-33 episodes in length. Because of Corona Virus it should be obvious that we probably won't be getting the final chapter this year.

      Well there are countries that don't talk about certain war crimes as Turkey has laws that punished anyone for bringing up war crimes and even "mentioning the word Genocide".

      Now back to AoT, I don't want a rushed arc in the manga but I can imagined there will be changes in the fourth season just to speed up the process of the last two arcs. Not to mention do you think the fourth season of the anime will be delayed as well?

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote:

      TKGriffiths wrote: Trying to recover the colossus would be an insane idea. Even if they were successful, it would only reduce the number of shifters available to fight Eren and the Yaegerists (since one warrior would be holding two titans).

      Also Armin is more than capable of defending himself and killing anyone who tries to eat him. It's a counterproductive plan that only makes things worse whether it succeeds or not.

      It is sure that it could put the mess and make everything fail. After the fear of losing their families might be powerful enough to take this risk. Annie in chapter 127 did not hide the possibility that they would turn against Armin and Mikasa if the latter opposed the idea of killing Eren. They would certainly be one less, but the collosale is the only titan to weigh a bit against the founding titan and against his army, isn't it?

      Annie only made it look like she was against them only to then show she understands their feelings and is not opposed herself to resolving things peacefully with Eren. She just followed the theme of looking bad but then it turns out its not the case, which we all know Eren is going to become the prime example of very soon.  Its even more clear now that NOBODY wants to fight/kill Eren, not Gabi, not Reiner, nor anybody else in the "alliance".

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      Mutsu Goro wrote:

      TKGriffiths wrote: Trying to recover the colossus would be an insane idea. Even if they were successful, it would only reduce the number of shifters available to fight Eren and the Yaegerists (since one warrior would be holding two titans).

      Also Armin is more than capable of defending himself and killing anyone who tries to eat him. It's a counterproductive plan that only makes things worse whether it succeeds or not.

      It is sure that it could put the mess and make everything fail. After the fear of losing their families might be powerful enough to take this risk. Annie in chapter 127 did not hide the possibility that they would turn against Armin and Mikasa if the latter opposed the idea of killing Eren.

      They would certainly be one less, but the collosale is the only titan to weigh a bit against the founding titan and against his army, isn't it?

      Annie only made it look like she was against them only to then show she understands their feelings and is not opposed herself to resolving things peacefully with Eren. She just followed the theme of looking bad but then it turns out its not the case, which we all know Eren is going to become the prime example of very soon.  Its even more clear now that NOBODY wants to fight/kill Eren, not Gabi, not Reiner, nor anybody else in the "alliance".

      Annie Leonhardt main goal is returning to her adoptive Father.  After when Survey Corp/Marley Warriors alliance finish dealing with the Yeagerist Faction, and built that sea plane.  They will head straight towards the Warriors hometown and find it under attack.  The warriors will believe it to be Eren Yeager and declare vengeance, causing friction between them & Survey Corp.  However, they will find out the truth after attacking that massive titan,and realise they've made an error in judgement.

      Note:  There is no room for personnel feelings during war time, or otherwise, you will fail time and again.

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    • Warrior655 wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Mutsu Goro wrote:

      TKGriffiths wrote: Trying to recover the colossus would be an insane idea. Even if they were successful, it would only reduce the number of shifters available to fight Eren and the Yaegerists (since one warrior would be holding two titans).

      Also Armin is more than capable of defending himself and killing anyone who tries to eat him. It's a counterproductive plan that only makes things worse whether it succeeds or not.

      It is sure that it could put the mess and make everything fail. After the fear of losing their families might be powerful enough to take this risk. Annie in chapter 127 did not hide the possibility that they would turn against Armin and Mikasa if the latter opposed the idea of killing Eren.

      They would certainly be one less, but the collosale is the only titan to weigh a bit against the founding titan and against his army, isn't it?

      Annie only made it look like she was against them only to then show she understands their feelings and is not opposed herself to resolving things peacefully with Eren. She just followed the theme of looking bad but then it turns out its not the case, which we all know Eren is going to become the prime example of very soon.  Its even more clear now that NOBODY wants to fight/kill Eren, not Gabi, not Reiner, nor anybody else in the "alliance".
      Annie Leonhardt main goal is returning to her adoptive Father.  After when Survey Corp/Marley Warriors alliance finish dealing with the Yeagerist Faction, and built that sea plane.  They will head straight towards the Warriors hometown and find it under attack.  The warriors will believe it to be Eren Yeager and declare vengeance, causing friction between them & Survey Corp.  However, they will find out the truth after attacking that massive titan,and realise they've made an error in judgement.

      Note:  There is no room for personnel feelings during war time, or otherwise, you will fail time and again.

      That's not a bad theory, and I like how you incorporate the other side people are seeing here, that Eren isn't the villain he seems to be and that he may not actually be attacking Marley, hence the literal smokescreen we got this chp. Love how some Eren haters tried to twist the facts and say Eren DID attack Marley when the truth is it was left up to debate, and why would Isayama write it that way if Eren was the villain?

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    • Attackcjc wrote:
      Warrior655 wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Mutsu Goro wrote:

      TKGriffiths wrote: Trying to recover the colossus would be an insane idea. Even if they were successful, it would only reduce the number of shifters available to fight Eren and the Yaegerists (since one warrior would be holding two titans).

      Also Armin is more than capable of defending himself and killing anyone who tries to eat him. It's a counterproductive plan that only makes things worse whether it succeeds or not.

      It is sure that it could put the mess and make everything fail. After the fear of losing their families might be powerful enough to take this risk. Annie in chapter 127 did not hide the possibility that they would turn against Armin and Mikasa if the latter opposed the idea of killing Eren.

      They would certainly be one less, but the collosale is the only titan to weigh a bit against the founding titan and against his army, isn't it?

      Annie only made it look like she was against them only to then show she understands their feelings and is not opposed herself to resolving things peacefully with Eren. She just followed the theme of looking bad but then it turns out its not the case, which we all know Eren is going to become the prime example of very soon.  Its even more clear now that NOBODY wants to fight/kill Eren, not Gabi, not Reiner, nor anybody else in the "alliance".
      Annie Leonhardt main goal is returning to her adoptive Father.  After when Survey Corp/Marley Warriors alliance finish dealing with the Yeagerist Faction, and built that sea plane.  They will head straight towards the Warriors hometown and find it under attack.  The warriors will believe it to be Eren Yeager and declare vengeance, causing friction between them & Survey Corp.  However, they will find out the truth after attacking that massive titan,and realise they've made an error in judgement.

      Note:  There is no room for personnel feelings during war time, or otherwise, you will fail time and again.

      That's not a bad theory, and I like how you incorporate the other side people are seeing here, that Eren isn't the villain he seems to be and that he may not actually be attacking Marley, hence the literal smokescreen we got this chp. Love how some Eren haters tried to twist the facts and say Eren DID attack Marley when the truth is it was left up to debate, and why would Isayama write it that way if Eren was the villain?

      Where exactly was it painted as dubious that Eren went ahead and attacked Marley?

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    • When Hange said that the wall titans led by Eren are already in Marley judging by the steam

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Warrior655 wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Mutsu Goro wrote:

      TKGriffiths wrote: Trying to recover the colossus would be an insane idea. Even if they were successful, it would only reduce the number of shifters available to fight Eren and the Yaegerists (since one warrior would be holding two titans).

      Also Armin is more than capable of defending himself and killing anyone who tries to eat him. It's a counterproductive plan that only makes things worse whether it succeeds or not.

      It is sure that it could put the mess and make everything fail. After the fear of losing their families might be powerful enough to take this risk. Annie in chapter 127 did not hide the possibility that they would turn against Armin and Mikasa if the latter opposed the idea of killing Eren.

      They would certainly be one less, but the collosale is the only titan to weigh a bit against the founding titan and against his army, isn't it?

      Annie only made it look like she was against them only to then show she understands their feelings and is not opposed herself to resolving things peacefully with Eren. She just followed the theme of looking bad but then it turns out its not the case, which we all know Eren is going to become the prime example of very soon.  Its even more clear now that NOBODY wants to fight/kill Eren, not Gabi, not Reiner, nor anybody else in the "alliance".
      Annie Leonhardt main goal is returning to her adoptive Father.  After when Survey Corp/Marley Warriors alliance finish dealing with the Yeagerist Faction, and built that sea plane.  They will head straight towards the Warriors hometown and find it under attack.  The warriors will believe it to be Eren Yeager and declare vengeance, causing friction between them & Survey Corp.  However, they will find out the truth after attacking that massive titan,and realise they've made an error in judgement.

      Note:  There is no room for personnel feelings during war time, or otherwise, you will fail time and again.

      That's not a bad theory, and I like how you incorporate the other side people are seeing here, that Eren isn't the villain he seems to be and that he may not actually be attacking Marley, hence the literal smokescreen we got this chp. Love how some Eren haters tried to twist the facts and say Eren DID attack Marley when the truth is it was left up to debate, and why would Isayama write it that way if Eren was the villain?
      Where exactly was it painted as dubious that Eren went ahead and attacked Marley?

      As Abdou already explained, Hanje only speculated where the titans are based on where the steam is, but she doesn't know whether or not that is the case.  Yet people are trying to twist it into her saying Marley is already being destroyed, as what Hanje said is a fact when the truth is she only predicted, and she doesn't know for definite. I've seen quite a few Eren haters try to say this is "definite proof" Eren is the villain lol

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    • </div>That's not a bad theory, and I like how you incorporate the other side people are seeing here, that Eren isn't the villain he seems to be and that he may not actually be attacking Marley, hence the literal smokescreen we got this chp. Love how some Eren haters tried to twist the facts and say Eren DID attack Marley when the truth is it was left up to debate, and why would Isayama write it that way if Eren was the villain?</div>Where exactly was it painted as dubious that Eren went ahead and attacked Marley?</div>As Abdou already explained, Hanje only speculated where the titans are based on where the steam is, but she doesn't know whether or not that is the case.  Yet people are trying to twist it into her saying Marley is already being destroyed, as what Hanje said is a fact when the truth is she only predicted, and she doesn't know for definite. I've seen quite a few Eren haters try to say this is "definite proof" Eren is the villain lol </div>

      The way the information was presented, it was clearly painted as a fact that Eren has already reached Marley and he has started his final attack. Hange knows geography and she is not blind. She saw the smoke of the titans and their location and made an educated guess. Not to mention, that Isayama has always painted Hange's speculations as correct. The urgency in her words when talking to her squad was evident. 

      Furthermore, Magath was with her and he seemed equally terrified and angry when confronting Yelena. He wouldn't have been like that, if he wasn't absolutely sure that Eren had reached Marley.

      From a narrative standpoint, with the plot with the airplane being used to reach Eren, to what we know from the Final Exhibition, the amount of evidence that show how Eren is indeed trying to murder the entire world is overwhelming. Whether that makes him a villain or a hero is up for debate, but facts are facts.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:
       

      That's not a bad theory, and I like how you incorporate the other side people are seeing here, that Eren isn't the villain he seems to be and that he may not actually be attacking Marley, hence the literal smokescreen we got this chp. Love how some Eren haters tried to twist the facts and say Eren DID attack Marley when the truth is it was left up to debate, and why would Isayama write it that way if Eren was the villain?</div>Where exactly was it painted as dubious that Eren went ahead and attacked Marley?</div>As Abdou already explained, Hanje only speculated where the titans are based on where the steam is, but she doesn't know whether or not that is the case.  Yet people are trying to twist it into her saying Marley is already being destroyed, as what Hanje said is a fact when the truth is she only predicted, and she doesn't know for definite. I've seen quite a few Eren haters try to say this is "definite proof" Eren is the villain lol </div>

      The way the information was presented, it was clearly painted as a fact that Eren has already reached Marley and he has started his final attack. Hange knows geography and she is not blind. She saw the smoke of the titans and their location and made an educated guess. Not to mention, that Isayama has always painted Hange's speculations as correct. The urgency in her words when talking to her squad was evident. 

      Furthermore, Magath was with her and he seemed equally terrified and angry when confronting Yelena. He wouldn't have been like that, if he wasn't absolutely sure that Eren had reached Marley.

      From a narrative standpoint, with the plot with the airplane being used to reach Eren, to what we know from the Final Exhibition, the amount of evidence that show how Eren is indeed trying to murder the entire world is overwhelming. Whether that makes him a villain or a hero is up for debate, but facts are facts. </div>

      Your "facts" aren't as factual you make them sound. Sure Hanje may know geography well, but she didn't say she knew for sure that she knows Eren is destroying Marley currently.  All we got there is a literal smokescreen, so yes its up for debate, and so far, the only people saying this is "confirmation" are those who just called Eren a "villain" for no good reason for 2 years now.  Magath isn't proof either, as he's only going off her words, and he doesn't know anything either. In fact, he didn't know how to act with the people around him until recently, so he's not necessarily "proof" either.  So yeah, for the most part, Hanje's speculations are correct, but she can be wrong, and Isayama was careful to write her having a PREDICTION, not saying for a fact that Eren started destroying Marley which is what ur trying to insinuate here.  She only made an educated guess, which she can be wrong about, its not like she was using a telescope or something. 

      But I'm glad you brought up the final exhbition here. We heard two things around when Armin called for Eren, 1) 3dmg 2) A train. So either way, it sounds like Eren is out of his titan form.  It all still doesn't change the fact that we still have to see his perspective and have a ton of questions answered about Eren.  NOTHING about him being "the final villain" as many called him made sense, just calling it how it is lol so keep that in mind going forward in case it turned out that Isayama tricked you here.

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    • Your "facts" aren't as factual you make them sound. Sure Hanje may know geography well, but she didn't say she knew for sure that she knows Eren is destroying Marley currently.  All we got there is a literal smokescreen, so yes its up for debate, and so far, the only people saying this is "confirmation" are those who just called Eren a "villain" for no good reason for 2 years now.  Magath isn't proof either, as he's only going off her words, and he doesn't know anything either. In fact, he didn't know how to act with the people around him until recently, so he's not necessarily "proof" either.  So yeah, for the most part, Hanje's speculations are correct, but she can be wrong, and Isayama was careful to write her having a PREDICTION, not saying for a fact that Eren started destroying Marley which is what ur trying to insinuate here.  She only made an educated guess, which she can be wrong about, its not like she was using a telescope or something. 

      But I'm glad you brought up the final exhbition here. We heard two things around when Armin called for Eren, 1) 3dmg 2) A train. So either way, it sounds like Eren is out of his titan form.  It all still doesn't change the fact that we still have to see his perspective and have a ton of questions answered about Eren.  NOTHING about him being "the final villain" as many called him made sense, just calling it how it is lol so keep that in mind going forward in case it turned out that Isayama tricked you here.

      That's exactly what Hange said. She said that she saw the titans moving off the shore and based on their speed, they have already reached Marley. Nothing is up for debate concerning Eren's actions. He released the colossals and sent them to murder the entire world. And this chapter confirmed that the slaughter her already started. I really wonder what part of her dialogue portrayed her words as a mere "prediction" as you say. Because it sure as hell didn't seem like that to me.

      Anyway, even if Hange is not 100% sure, Floch is. The only reason he placed explosives on the Azumabito plane was the fact that it is the only way the SC have to reach Eren and stop him. If Eren wasn't there, he could have just let them take the plane, leave them searching for Eren hopelessly, only to run out of fuels. But no, he now leads an attack against them. Since Floch arrived there earlier than Hange, it is possible that he saw things clearer. And what did he say? "Just look at that steam. I doubt history has ever changed in one day as dramatically as it will today".

      Seeing how everyone who knows a thing about titans and Eren is very certain of what he's doing, i can't understand how you think that Isayama is playing tricks here. What is it you are even trying to argue? That Eren doesn't want to end the world? Then what has he been up to all this time? Where did the colossals go? Where does that steam come from?

      Now, regarding the Final Exhibition, where was it that you specifically heard a train? Because i didn't hear that. 3DMG sound and Armin are obvious, but a train? The SC need a plane to reach Eren, that's the whole point here.

      If anything, you are the one speculating here. I'm stating facts. You are just trying to believe that Eren is not a villain. Fine, i never said he was, nor do i believe he is. It's you who can't handle Eren murdering the world, when that's what he's clearly been trying to do. And i seriously doubt that his POV will change that.

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    • The problem is we just don't know how Eren is thinking,in contrast from the start to the reconquest of Wall Maria,Isiyama (in purpose probably) formed a picture of a radical Eren, far from the caring and the rightous boy that we know,throwing away and severing every single relationship he had formed his whole life, ready to destroy the whole world to save his hometown, the questions are: Do Eren really intend to destroy the world? If yes, does he really want to involve the persecuted Eldians and refugees whom he witnessed their condition in Marley and everywhere in the world?What happened exactly in the meeting between him and Yelena two years ago when he started to show this side? Why did he launch the raid on Liberio while he fully knows that he would involve civilians and childrens in his inacceptable attack? Why did he hurt Armin and Mikasa while it's obvious that he care for them more than anyone in the world? The Attack Titan isn't supposed to represent the hope,freedom and pride of Eldia,instead of the dark and the evil side of them?Where the hell is Queen Historia in all of this? Who was the person who Annie saw in the window? With the wall titans reaching the mainland led by the power of the founding,it's definitely too soon to assume that Eren will carry his proclamed goal to the very end,he can change his orders in any moment,and without discussion,i'm against his goal to destroy humanity,because it's impossible right now for the self-proclamed "new eldian empire" to colonize the whole word,that's why i choose to believe to the very end that eren is bluffing and acting as the vilain in order to make the world accept Paradise-the same maybe for Floch and the Yeagerists-.

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    • Abdou250 wrote:
      The problem is we just don't know how Eren is thinking,in contrast from the start to the reconquest of Wall Maria,Isiyama (in purpose probably) formed a picture of a radical Eren, far from the caring and the rightous boy that we know,throwing away and severing every single relationship he had formed his whole life, ready to destroy the whole world to save his hometown, the questions are: Do Eren really intend to destroy the world? If yes, does he really want to involve the persecuted Eldians and refugees whom he witnessed their condition in Marley and everywhere in the world?What happened exactly in the meeting between him and Yelena two years ago when he started to show this side? Why did he launch the raid on Liberio while he fully knows that he would involve civilians and childrens in his inacceptable attack? Why did he hurt Armin and Mikasa while it's obvious that he care for them more than anyone in the world? The Attack Titan isn't supposed to represent the hope,freedom and pride of Eldia,instead of the dark and the evil side of them?Where the hell is Queen Historia in all of this? Who was the person who Annie saw in the window? With the wall titans reaching the mainland led by the power of the founding,it's definitely too soon to assume that Eren will carry his proclamed goal to the very end,he can change his orders in any moment,and without discussion,i'm against his goal to destroy humanity,because it's impossible right now for the self-proclamed "new eldian empire" to colonize the whole word,that's why i choose to believe to the very end that eren is bluffing and acting as the vilain in order to make the world accept Paradise-the same maybe for Floch and the Yeagerists-.

      Half of the questions you asked i can answer them right here and now and i won't be far off the mark. So let's see. Eren really wants to destroy all life outside of the island, Eldians included. Eren's allegiance is to Paradis and Paradis alone. That much has been made clear.

      In the meeting with Yelena (we will see it in his POV chapter), which took place 10 months ago, not 2 years as you say, Yelena told Eren Zeke's real goal and told him to infiltrate Marley on his own during SC's trip there shown in chapter 123, to force the hands of the military. He went through with the plan to raid Liberio, because it was necessary. It was Zeke's plan and Eren had to make Zeke trust him. It was the only way to get Zeke out of Marley. The Attack Titan fights for freedom. His own freedom. Eren's freedom and the freedom of everyone else he loves are not compatible, as shown and foreshadowed in chapter 112. The person Annie saw was Keith Shadis. It's obvious in the official release. Eren doesn't care about colonizing the world. Eren wants to kill them all and be done with it. 

      Now when it comes to Historia's role to all this, she simply agreed to get pregnant. She did that to save herself from the fate of being turned into a titan and in order to keep Zeke alive. Eren convinced her that this was important and vital for her survival and the survival of the people of Paradis and she agreed. This is speculation on my part, but i guess we'll see.

      As for why he hurt Mikasa and Armin, it's exactly because he loves them more than anyone else. He needs to move away from them in order to be able to come to terms with what he is about to do and possibly because he knows that they deserve better than being stuck with the man who killed the world. He doesn't want them involved, in order to spare them from the pain of having helped him murder the entire human population. He probably doesn't intend to go back to them at all. Still speculation on my part, but i'm sure i'll be right in the end.

      Eren portraying himself as the villain, is the dumbest plan he could have thought. It's stupid and unrealistic. Eren declaring that he will murder the entire world doesn't paint just him as evil. It makes the entire world be afraid of Paradis even more. The Paradisians murdered Marleyans and people from around the world. In the eyes of the world, this is a collective sin, not just Eren's.

      Even if the world were to recognize the bravery of Mikasa, Armin etc and their efforts to battle Eren, the rest of the island supported Eren. Even the ones who disapproved of his actions only did that because he killed some of them as well, not because they like the outside world. And to top it all, Historia supports Eren. With the militaty junta gone, Historia is the hightest authority in the island and she supports Eren. If Eren wants to die a bad guy, he will save the rest of the world, but he will doom Paradis. This theory is as bad as it gets and so far off the mark considering Eren's character that i'm shocked to see people believing it.

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    • They'd have to try to capture Floch so he could tell them about Eren's route.

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    • Mutsu Goro wrote: They'd have to try to capture Floch so he could tell them about Eren's route.

      That's why Yelena exists. It's the only reason they have her there and she is still alive. Magath explained it.

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    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Your "facts" aren't as factual you make them sound. Sure Hanje may know geography well, but she didn't say she knew for sure that she knows Eren is destroying Marley currently.  All we got there is a literal smokescreen, so yes its up for debate, and so far, the only people saying this is "confirmation" are those who just called Eren a "villain" for no good reason for 2 years now.  Magath isn't proof either, as he's only going off her words, and he doesn't know anything either. In fact, he didn't know how to act with the people around him until recently, so he's not necessarily "proof" either.  So yeah, for the most part, Hanje's speculations are correct, but she can be wrong, and Isayama was careful to write her having a PREDICTION, not saying for a fact that Eren started destroying Marley which is what ur trying to insinuate here.  She only made an educated guess, which she can be wrong about, its not like she was using a telescope or something. 

      But I'm glad you brought up the final exhbition here. We heard two things around when Armin called for Eren, 1) 3dmg 2) A train. So either way, it sounds like Eren is out of his titan form.  It all still doesn't change the fact that we still have to see his perspective and have a ton of questions answered about Eren.  NOTHING about him being "the final villain" as many called him made sense, just calling it how it is lol so keep that in mind going forward in case it turned out that Isayama tricked you here.

      That's exactly what Hange said. She said that she saw the titans moving off the shore and based on their speed, they have already reached Marley. Nothing is up for debate concerning Eren's actions. He released the colossals and sent them to murder the entire world. And this chapter confirmed that the slaughter her already started. I really wonder what part of her dialogue portrayed her words as a mere "prediction" as you say. Because it sure as hell didn't seem like that to me.

      Anyway, even if Hange is not 100% sure, Floch is. The only reason he placed explosives on the Azumabito plane was the fact that it is the only way the SC have to reach Eren and stop him. If Eren wasn't there, he could have just let them take the plane, leave them searching for Eren hopelessly, only to run out of fuels. But no, he now leads an attack against them. Since Floch arrived there earlier than Hange, it is possible that he saw things clearer. And what did he say? "Just look at that steam. I doubt history has ever changed in one day as dramatically as it will today".

      Seeing how everyone who knows a thing about titans and Eren is very certain of what he's doing, i can't understand how you think that Isayama is playing tricks here. What is it you are even trying to argue? That Eren doesn't want to end the world? Then what has he been up to all this time? Where did the colossals go? Where does that steam come from?

      Now, regarding the Final Exhibition, where was it that you specifically heard a train? Because i didn't hear that. 3DMG sound and Armin are obvious, but a train? The SC need a plane to reach Eren, that's the whole point here.

      If anything, you are the one speculating here. I'm stating facts. You are just trying to believe that Eren is not a villain. Fine, i never said he was, nor do i believe he is. It's you who can't handle Eren murdering the world, when that's what he's clearly been trying to do. And i seriously doubt that his POV will change that.

      The reason I'm speculating is that Eren as a "villain" never added up, and the stuff he said only proved it. Like anything he said, most readers would be reasonable and realize, nah that smells fishy. As for Hanje, she said "judging by their speed" and based on where she sees the steam. She doesn't know for sure what's going on all the way over there. She didn't say "Those cities are destroyed now", she said "Judging by where they seem to be based off where the smoke is coming from, the cities MUST"VE been destroyed by now". She didn't make a factual observation, but a strong educated guess, and its not even like she was going off on black smoke from fire, she was going simply off steam, which could just be a smokescreen so to speak.

      But in all honesty, this has nothing to do with me not wanting Eren to be "bad" or whatever. Its an understatement he's been demonized for the wrong reasons since chp 100, just like he got hated on for the wrong reasons before that, so this is nothing new really lol but the reason why I'm speculating that we're in for a twist, and most agreed on this, is because Eren murdering the world goes against his development, along with some beliefs he's had since the beginning. The only people who tried to make the case are people who ignored his development and just wanted him to die off or something. Quite frankly, I didn't like the damage he caused in Marley around chp 100, but I understood the bigger picture and I respect him for making the tought decision, yet the people I mentioned here thought he did it out of "vengeance" which wasn't a factor there AT ALL. People immediately went crazy about Eren "being the villain" immediately, and their "logic" never held up. It was always clear he was up to something else, something more akin to ending the war cycle and gaining freedom as opposed to destroying the world, and may I add, my arguments held up better than the opposite side.

      But I can tell you don't fall in the same category as them, even if you share their view of Eren currently. You're 100% right that Eren being the villain here is stupid as it won't lead to peace collectively. I figured that out immediately so he has to be up to something else, as he's shown more than enough depth and open-mindedness before all this villain bullshit started for him to be this shallow now.  We might not see eye to eye completely, but we agree on enough here, so I'll leave you to your theories instead of disproving them. 

        Loading editor
    • Attackcjc wrote:
      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Your "facts" aren't as factual you make them sound. Sure Hanje may know geography well, but she didn't say she knew for sure that she knows Eren is destroying Marley currently.  All we got there is a literal smokescreen, so yes its up for debate, and so far, the only people saying this is "confirmation" are those who just called Eren a "villain" for no good reason for 2 years now.  Magath isn't proof either, as he's only going off her words, and he doesn't know anything either. In fact, he didn't know how to act with the people around him until recently, so he's not necessarily "proof" either.  So yeah, for the most part, Hanje's speculations are correct, but she can be wrong, and Isayama was careful to write her having a PREDICTION, not saying for a fact that Eren started destroying Marley which is what ur trying to insinuate here.  She only made an educated guess, which she can be wrong about, its not like she was using a telescope or something. 

      But I'm glad you brought up the final exhbition here. We heard two things around when Armin called for Eren, 1) 3dmg 2) A train. So either way, it sounds like Eren is out of his titan form.  It all still doesn't change the fact that we still have to see his perspective and have a ton of questions answered about Eren.  NOTHING about him being "the final villain" as many called him made sense, just calling it how it is lol so keep that in mind going forward in case it turned out that Isayama tricked you here.

      That's exactly what Hange said. She said that she saw the titans moving off the shore and based on their speed, they have already reached Marley. Nothing is up for debate concerning Eren's actions. He released the colossals and sent them to murder the entire world. And this chapter confirmed that the slaughter her already started. I really wonder what part of her dialogue portrayed her words as a mere "prediction" as you say. Because it sure as hell didn't seem like that to me.

      Anyway, even if Hange is not 100% sure, Floch is. The only reason he placed explosives on the Azumabito plane was the fact that it is the only way the SC have to reach Eren and stop him. If Eren wasn't there, he could have just let them take the plane, leave them searching for Eren hopelessly, only to run out of fuels. But no, he now leads an attack against them. Since Floch arrived there earlier than Hange, it is possible that he saw things clearer. And what did he say? "Just look at that steam. I doubt history has ever changed in one day as dramatically as it will today".

      Seeing how everyone who knows a thing about titans and Eren is very certain of what he's doing, i can't understand how you think that Isayama is playing tricks here. What is it you are even trying to argue? That Eren doesn't want to end the world? Then what has he been up to all this time? Where did the colossals go? Where does that steam come from?

      Now, regarding the Final Exhibition, where was it that you specifically heard a train? Because i didn't hear that. 3DMG sound and Armin are obvious, but a train? The SC need a plane to reach Eren, that's the whole point here.

      If anything, you are the one speculating here. I'm stating facts. You are just trying to believe that Eren is not a villain. Fine, i never said he was, nor do i believe he is. It's you who can't handle Eren murdering the world, when that's what he's clearly been trying to do. And i seriously doubt that his POV will change that.

      The reason I'm speculating is that Eren as a "villain" never added up, and the stuff he said only proved it. Like anything he said, most readers would be reasonable and realize, nah that smells fishy. As for Hanje, she said "judging by their speed" and based on where she sees the steam. She doesn't know for sure what's going on all the way over there. She didn't say "Those cities are destroyed now", she said "Judging by where they seem to be based off where the smoke is coming from, the cities MUST"VE been destroyed by now". She didn't make a factual observation, but a strong educated guess, and its not even like she was going off on black smoke from fire, she was going simply off steam, which could just be a smokescreen so to speak.

      But in all honesty, this has nothing to do with me not wanting Eren to be "bad" or whatever. Its an understatement he's been demonized for the wrong reasons since chp 100, just like he got hated on for the wrong reasons before that, so this is nothing new really lol but the reason why I'm speculating that we're in for a twist, and most agreed on this, is because Eren murdering the world goes against his development, along with some beliefs he's had since the beginning. The only people who tried to make the case are people who ignored his development and just wanted him to die off or something. Quite frankly, I didn't like the damage he caused in Marley around chp 100, but I understood the bigger picture and I respect him for making the tought decision, yet the people I mentioned here thought he did it out of "vengeance" which wasn't a factor there AT ALL. People immediately went crazy about Eren "being the villain" immediately, and their "logic" never held up. It was always clear he was up to something else, something more akin to ending the war cycle and gaining freedom as opposed to destroying the world, and may I add, my arguments held up better than the opposite side.

      But I can tell you don't fall in the same category as them, even if you share their view of Eren currently. You're 100% right that Eren being the villain here is stupid as it won't lead to peace collectively. I figured that out immediately so he has to be up to something else, as he's shown more than enough depth and open-mindedness before all this villain bullshit started for him to be this shallow now.  We might not see eye to eye completely, but we agree on enough here, so I'll leave you to your theories instead of disproving them. 

      I agree that Eren is not the villain. It seems that our difference here is in our beliefs concerning what he wants to do right now. I believe that he wants to murder the entire world. Not saying he is right or wrong, it's what he deems necessary. Frankly, even though i support the Alliance, i think Eren has the "best" permanent solution to the problem of Paradis being demolished by other nations.

      Anyway, what is it that you think Eren is up to?

        Loading editor
    • Eden Ushinatta wrote:
      Attackcjc wrote:
      Eden Ushinatta wrote:

      Your "facts" aren't as factual you make them sound. Sure Hanje may know geography well, but she didn't say she knew for sure that she knows Eren is destroying Marley currently.  All we got there is a literal smokescreen, so yes its up for debate, and so far, the only people saying this is "confirmation" are those who just called Eren a "villain" for no good reason for 2 years now.  Magath isn't proof either, as he's only going off her words, and he doesn't know anything either. In fact, he didn't know how to act with the people around him until recently, so he's not necessarily "proof" either.  So yeah, for the most part, Hanje's speculations are correct, but she can be wrong, and Isayama was careful to write her having a PREDICTION, not saying for a fact that Eren started destroying Marley which is what ur trying to insinuate here.  She only made an educated guess, which she can be wrong about, its not like she was using a telescope or something. 

      But I'm glad you brought up the final exhbition here. We heard two things around when Armin called for Eren, 1) 3dmg 2) A train. So either way, it sounds like Eren is out of his titan form.  It all still doesn't change the fact that we still have to see his perspective and have a ton of questions answered about Eren.  NOTHING about him being "the final villain" as many called him made sense, just calling it how it is lol so keep that in mind going forward in case it turned out that Isayama tricked you here.

      That's exactly what Hange said. She said that she saw the titans moving off the shore and based on their speed, they have already reached Marley. Nothing is up for debate concerning Eren's actions. He released the colossals and sent them to murder the entire world. And this chapter confirmed that the slaughter her already started. I really wonder what part of her dialogue portrayed her words as a mere "prediction" as you say. Because it sure as hell didn't seem like that to me.

      Anyway, even if Hange is not 100% sure, Floch is. The only reason he placed explosives on the Azumabito plane was the fact that it is the only way the SC have to reach Eren and stop him. If Eren wasn't there, he could have just let them take the plane, leave them searching for Eren hopelessly, only to run out of fuels. But no, he now leads an attack against them. Since Floch arrived there earlier than Hange, it is possible that he saw things clearer. And what did he say? "Just look at that steam. I doubt history has ever changed in one day as dramatically as it will today".

      Seeing how everyone who knows a thing about titans and Eren is very certain of what he's doing, i can't understand how you think that Isayama is playing tricks here. What is it you are even trying to argue? That Eren doesn't want to end the world? Then what has he been up to all this time? Where did the colossals go? Where does that steam come from?

      Now, regarding the Final Exhibition, where was it that you specifically heard a train? Because i didn't hear that. 3DMG sound and Armin are obvious, but a train? The SC need a plane to reach Eren, that's the whole point here.

      If anything, you are the one speculating here. I'm stating facts. You are just trying to believe that Eren is not a villain. Fine, i never said he was, nor do i believe he is. It's you who can't handle Eren murdering the world, when that's what he's clearly been trying to do. And i seriously doubt that his POV will change that.

      The reason I'm speculating is that Eren as a "villain" never added up, and the stuff he said only proved it. Like anything he said, most readers would be reasonable and realize, nah that smells fishy. As for Hanje, she said "judging by their speed" and based on where she sees the steam. She doesn't know for sure what's going on all the way over there. She didn't say "Those cities are destroyed now", she said "Judging by where they seem to be based off where the smoke is coming from, the cities MUST"VE been destroyed by now". She didn't make a factual observation, but a strong educated guess, and its not even like she was going off on black smoke from fire, she was going simply off steam, which could just be a smokescreen so to speak.

      But in all honesty, this has nothing to do with me not wanting Eren to be "bad" or whatever. Its an understatement he's been demonized for the wrong reasons since chp 100, just like he got hated on for the wrong reasons before that, so this is nothing new really lol but the reason why